At FSU when it's time for x's and o's, Hamilton let's Stan do
- Thread starter Thick
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AU team, and then turn around and have enough pride and motivation to beat Duke. Our last 3-4 games the best we could do was lose by 11, and that's to teams that we expect and should have beaten. I'm not saying FSU is great, but that's what good coaches do....coach players up and demand better effort and execution of the game plan. That win will not hurt their rpi.
Thick said:
I cant tell if this is serious or not. I hope it isnt.
FSU is 138th in the nation in scoring. And 227th in fg%.
Their offense is cripplingly bad.
They have gone what seems like half a game without scoring at times this year.
**MSU has even worse offensive stats. Just thought i would add that in for anyone that was interested.
This proves how little our fans actually know about basketball. If there's a fanbase that complains about their offense and offensive coaching more than the fans on this board, it's FSU's. They're actually built a lot like Stans 01-04 teams, very athletic, play very hard, great defense, but terrible offensive execution and reliance on 1-on-1 basketball
a post. All I was saying is that FSU has not given up, players or coaches. They're coaches are actually coaching and the players are getting after it. Losing to AU is really bad, but to bounce back and beat #1 Duke (albeit at home) shows pride and determination. We have been getting the **** kicked out of us, and no one seems to believe they should change their current behavior or styles...players and coaches included. The only thing RS says is it will get better when they find their rhythmn. WTF? That's shooting, rhythmn had nothing to do with hustling, playing d, and rebounding!
is they have at least one coach that can draw up plays for their team. When's the last time MSU beat a #1 ranked team, much less Duke 3 times. I know plenty about basketball, and I have attended and watched plenty of the RS era to know what the 17 I'm talking about. If the FSU fanbase can't stand Leonard Hamilton and company they would probably hang RS and his crew. At least Hamilton can occasionally beat one of the best programs/coaches in the land over the last 20 years. The point was that they bounced back from a terrible loss to beat Duke, Jesus.
to praise any coach not named Stansbury, no matter how mediocre their record is. Hamilton is in his 9th season at FSU. He's played in a total of 2 NCAA games there, losing both. In 22 seasons overall, he has only 5 NCAA appearances. So tell me again how well he motivates his teams and how well he coaches them.</p>
if he had to coach in the ACC? 1 maybe
There 2 big parts of being a basketball coach- coaching and recruiting. And not all coaches are good at both.
Trent Johnson is a great example- he literally may be the best basketball coach in the SEC. His team the last 2 years has had very little talent. He is playing with walk-ons and ****. But they know exactly what they are doing and they play hard. They play really good defense. They just arent very talented. As a recruiter, right now you would have to say he is the worst in the SEC- there is really no excuse to be that devoid of talent at LSU. But the ones he has putting on that LSU uni play hard and know what they are doing.
There 2 big parts of being a basketball coach- coaching and recruiting. And not all coaches are good at both.
Trent Johnson is a great example- he literally may be the best basketball coach in the SEC. His team the last 2 years has had very little talent. He is playing with walk-ons and ****. But they know exactly what they are doing and they play hard. They play really good defense. They just arent very talented. As a recruiter, right now you would have to say he is the worst in the SEC- there is really no excuse to be that devoid of talent at LSU. But the ones he has putting on that LSU uni play hard and know what they are doing.
you need to watch them closer...he is easily the best coach in the West, and as good as anybody in the East...
When he had players? He won the SEC
Now, he has no players- they play hard and overachieve. They lead the West right now and are 5th in the West in talent.
When he had players? He won the SEC
Now, he has no players- they play hard and overachieve. They lead the West right now and are 5th in the West in talent.
skills are at an adult age. Pat we can't beat 17ing ETSU, FSU loses to AU, but bounced back to beat Duke. How well have we bounced back? I just pointed out that even mediocre coaches can occasionally beat very good teams. Can RS? I haven't witnessed it yet.
What the hell? Why is that even a point of yours?
The next ACC team is ranked 39th, according to the USA today poll.
Who gives an F what conference FSU is in? It should matter how good the conference is.
The next ACC team is ranked 39th, according to the USA today poll.
Who gives an F what conference FSU is in? It should matter how good the conference is.
Should we all instead just base ourviews on feelings and have nothingtoback up the views?Thick said:
FSU is bipolar. They are inconsistent. They are like dozens of other high level programs, they can win or get blown out on any given night.
Your first post was total junk. Their offensehas beenterrible. Stats show this. Their fans say this. Commentators discuss it during games.
What you say does not jive with what is actually happening.
As for the rest of this post where you go off on MSU's inability tochange, i dont disagree. They are all dumbasses for doing what they have been doing and expecting different results.
That is as dumb as me wanting Jeff Bower for DC a couple years ago. If we had to hire a coach and our choices were Donovan, Calipari, Pearl, Stallings, or Trent Johnson: who would you hire?patdog said:
*Also keep in mind that Stansbury skull dragged Johnson in the NCAA tournamentwhen he as at Stanford and had talent.
Hanmudog said:
depends who I could get as an asst to recruit- Trent Johnson = Richard Williams...I'm talking strictly X's and O's- watch them on the court- he gets every bit out of his team that he can.
When Trent Johnson had talent- he took a losing team and made them the SEC champion. Thats a fact
Now you can doubt Johnson as a recruiter, and have plenty of evidence to back that up as well.
We have more talent than LSU does this season- let's see how the games turn out
down. All I said, was that FSU bounced back nicely after some terrible losses. That's impressive, and there's not many that wouldn't agree. There coaching staff is showing interest, while ours show no signs of life during a TO. Well FSU might be bipolar, then MSU is manic depressive. Did you think FSU would beat Duke after losing to Auburn? I didn't. Did you think MSU would finish 5th or maybe worst in the West after being picked damn near by everybody to win it? I didn't either. Did you think we would lose this many during OOC? Me neither, but I did say we might 4-5 SEC games this year, and it would be a miracle now if we could accomplish that.
You can throw all of the stats you want to around here, but it still comes back to this...we are terrible and FSU is a little better. Never once did I say that FSU was awesome, or that Leonard Hamilton was great, nor did I say they have put up some impressive STATS this year. Just pointed out that even mediocre coaching can beat well coached teams. We cannot under RS, pretty simple.
You can throw all of the stats you want to around here, but it still comes back to this...we are terrible and FSU is a little better. Never once did I say that FSU was awesome, or that Leonard Hamilton was great, nor did I say they have put up some impressive STATS this year. Just pointed out that even mediocre coaching can beat well coached teams. We cannot under RS, pretty simple.
Uh, I think we all realize that State sucks but what does that have to do with Florida State?Thick said:
The argument could also be made that a team good enough to beat Duke has no business losing to freaking Auburn. For example, it would frustrate me even more if we go up to Rupp and beat UK because that would mean we had been sandbagging it against bad teams.
Probably not many.
Miami maybe, Wake perhaps, NC State is a slight possibility, BCwould be a decent chance, GT isnt out of the question, UVA is a slight possibility,FSU would be another maybe.
If we played each of these teams 10 times on a neutral court, that would be 70 games. I would think we would win 25 of those games if we play how we have been playing. If we play how we could with the talent we have, then we would win 55 of the games.
I am not sure what your question has to do with the discussion though.
Miami maybe, Wake perhaps, NC State is a slight possibility, BCwould be a decent chance, GT isnt out of the question, UVA is a slight possibility,FSU would be another maybe.
If we played each of these teams 10 times on a neutral court, that would be 70 games. I would think we would win 25 of those games if we play how we have been playing. If we play how we could with the talent we have, then we would win 55 of the games.
I am not sure what your question has to do with the discussion though.
Hanmudog said:
as I clearly wrote earlier, basketball coaches have their jobs divided into 2 sections- coaching and recruiting. And while that is part of every college coaching job, the recruiting part is even more paramount in basketball due to only 7-8-9 players playing per game.
So, you cant just have a really good X's and O's guy- because recruiting is so important.
And you cant just have a recruiter, because at some point he has to make some big coaching decisions every game.
Johnson is an outstanding coach, but apparently a terrible recruiter.
The guy I would choose to lead my program because he can do<span style="text-decoration:underline"> both</span> is Donovan.
But if I had a good collection of talent, and needed a coach to come in and coach them, Johnson would be a great choice
We can't beat ****** teams at the Hump much less Rupp. FSU did it at home, and will probably get routed at Cameron. I like the discussion, I just wish some of you would lighten up about it, because it's going to get much worse beginning tonight before it gets better. We just need to find our rhythmn, that's all!
So how do you explain Stansbury kicking the crap out of Johnson at Stanford in the NCAA tournament in the 8/9 seed matchup? Seems like he had pretty good talent that year. I would be a bit more impressed with Johnson winning the SEC that year had he not been left with a team full of seniors, Marcus Thornton, and Tasmin Mitchellin a horrible SEC (UK still had Gillespie).
My top 5 coaches in the SEC are 1. Calipari (the cheating bastard but good at it) 2. Donovan 3. Pearl 4. Stallings 5. Kennedy (for the time being)
My top 5 coaches in the SEC are 1. Calipari (the cheating bastard but good at it) 2. Donovan 3. Pearl 4. Stallings 5. Kennedy (for the time being)
Hanmudog said:
I explain Crooms beating Saban in 2007- **** happens.
" I would be a bit more impressed with Johnson winning the SEC that year had he not been left with a team full of seniors, Marcus Thornton, and Tasmin Mitchell"
that team full of Seniors went:
17-15, 5-11 in the SEC in 2007- as Soph's
13-18, 6-10 in the SEC in 2008 as juniors
but then, when Johnson arrived:
27-8, 13-3 in the SEC as Seniors- losing to National Champion NC in the NCAA's
point made- game over
Eh? They were seniors for three years?
So "**** happens" when Stansbury wins but when we lose to Butler in the first round of the NCAA's it was because Stansbury was an idiot? I guess I can't argue with that never before seenlevel of stunning hypocrisy.
So "**** happens" when Stansbury wins but when we lose to Butler in the first round of the NCAA's it was because Stansbury was an idiot? I guess I can't argue with that never before seenlevel of stunning hypocrisy.
I thought they were the same and multiple personalities was schizo. Been a long time since abnormal psych.
I'm sure it couldn't have anything to do with them all maturing together like our team in the early 90s did. You remember them. No postseason at all their FR and SO years, a 1st round NIT loss their JR year, and an SEC title their SR year. That's what can happen when you start the same 5 guys for 4 straight years.
is Coach and Hanmu are having it out, and you and I are having a very light discussion about mental disorders. Did Joe Price really decommit because of message board fodder? This thread that I started is all over the place, might as well throw in some drama from an 18 year old.
Manic, depressive, dissociative, schizo, paranoia, narcissism, anxiety, Adult ADHD......
This board has it all.
This board has it all.
Hanmudog said:
I clearly showed you what those guys did the two seasons before Johnson took over- then their improvement under him.
And you do realize you are comparing an 8-9 match-up vs a 5-12 match-up right? And you do understand the differences in why people are seeded correct?
And it's not that The Recruiter did this in this season or that season- it's the constants:
He never wins in the NCAA Tourney
He never upgrades the OOC schedule
He almost always loses vs Top 25 RPI teams
He always has constant turmoil in the program
being constantly average for the most part of his tenurewith a couple of highs and a couple of lows is ok but it's time for more