You have me confused for someone else. No staff is going to make WVU Alabama. That is my point.
Athlon
- Thread starter WV Bruno
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WVU will never likely play for anything substantial in football. It isn't about excuses, expectations, or anything else.
They should really be like UVA. Spend the money and hire the best you can in basketball and the non-money sports. Focus on those. Football has been priced out of our league.
They should really be like UVA. Spend the money and hire the best you can in basketball and the non-money sports. Focus on those. Football has been priced out of our league.
As soon as anyone on the football staff gets an offer from another school they jump on it. That speaks volumes. I also know RR was looking around his third year at WVU. It's a very tough gig.
Of course they could. Back when RR was at WVU, Alabama was similar to what WVU is now. One coach recruiting top talent changed that.
In Holgorsen's first year, WVU was able to crush Clemson--look how the two programs have split since that time.
For WVU it would be a matter of acquiring a superb coaching staff that can improve recruiting dramatically, a more supportive, less polarizing fanbase, and media support such as Clemson received. The media support brings exposure to recruits and pushing of recruits into your program.
It won't happen overnight but it could be done. ISU is building towards a point where its a top program in the BIG 12 right now--and with similar records as WVU had a few years back. If they get over the hump and can win a couple more games they'll be in the playoffs and their recruiting will see a boost.
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Yeah It took 2 years for Clemson to surpass Holgorsen as he began to kill WVU and it's recruiting area. Alabama was not in a similar position as WVU.
ISU will be back to battling for the bottom once their dream coach takes a major job at the end of the season.
ISU will never see the playoffs.
ISU will be back to battling for the bottom once their dream coach takes a major job at the end of the season.
ISU will never see the playoffs.
King of the trolls still lying that DH "killed" WVU when he was actually the second winningest coach ever with the toughest schedules ever.
And championing 5 wins.
Keep in mind this is one of the same dufus' that claimed probably 50 times that "anyone could step in and immediately do better"--hows that working out for WVU?
Why would anyone pay attention to this fool?
And championing 5 wins.
Keep in mind this is one of the same dufus' that claimed probably 50 times that "anyone could step in and immediately do better"--hows that working out for WVU?
Why would anyone pay attention to this fool?
Link to so called BS that claim. You spout off all these meaningless numbers to benefit your facade to make people think you know what your talking about.
Things I've never said nor denied that bucky claims I have.
1. Holgorsen 2nd most wins (don't forget second most losses as well)
2. Never said I champion 5 wins. (Had 6 in his 2nd season)
3. Never claimed anyone could step in and do the job (link to so called sayings)
You know where the ignore button is. To bad there is not an ignorance button. Yours would light up like a house on fire.
As far as that coach that ran away scared and is now failing. He reached his limit in 2016. Lost to the 2 teams he needed to beat to win the conference. His best offensive team in 2017 and 2018 of his own players and couldn't win more than 8 games.
The guy was taking WVU no further. Thank God he ran away as we would have been Kansas in 2019 and 2020. His recruiting was dipping into the 80's.
You do not seem to get it. WVU does not have that kind of money. Coaches leave here for greener pastures all the time. There is no instate talent. WVU has never had anything better than a good three year cycle. ISU is not going to sustain. That coach is eventually going to leave.
Does ISU have more money?
Look, in 2019 before Covid struck, this is what WVU was paid through its conference-the BIG 12:
WVU-NCAA/Conference distributions/Media Rights/Post season football---$39.15 million (may not include tier 3 revenue)
and here's what CLEMSON got via the acc:
Clemson-NCAA/Conference distributions/Media Rights/Post season football---$34.16 million (includes ALL tv rights tiers 1,2,3)
Now of course a Clemson gets more in ticket sales/donations and things like that, but WVU has the ability to improve on other resources like that as well--its not like they are getting paid Big East wages anymore though.
Why didn't WVU improve after winning the OB IN STUNNING FASHION but Clemson has and quickly?
Answer that. Waiting.
You may have noticed a couple things. First, WVU won the second most games ever in its history with the QBs and coaches it had.
While Holgorsen was forced to hire someone with "WVU ties" to run his defense due to pressure from various know nothings, Clemson went out and hired one of the top defensive coordinators in the nation who has greatly elevated their game.
While people like you railed on WVUs coach night and day and pushed for people to not attend games and spew venom on tv/radio/print/internet towards the coach, not to mention bashing players left and right, Clemson's fanbase celebrated every success and did everything they could to propel Dabo Sweeney to greatness.
ABC/ESPN, while starting up the acc network, began putting Clemson on in primetime games regularly and pushing recruits to that school every year as well. This would be the most difficult thing for WVU to change--how do you become a media darling? They have to want to promote you, but pretty sure going 5-5 and "fans" talking other fans out of attending games and bashing successful coaches and slandering him in the media won't get it done.
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2016 was WVU best defensive team in Big 12. You still didn't answer the question.
You sound like rootmaster
Your slipping as a troll.
Continue with your lies cause people are noticing you as the fraud you are.
You may not have noticed Clemson playing for national titles While WVU was losing minor bowl games of shame.
You sound like rootmaster
Your slipping as a troll.
Continue with your lies cause people are noticing you as the fraud you are.
You may not have noticed Clemson playing for national titles While WVU was losing minor bowl games of shame.
Then go root for Houston if you aren't happy here. Nobody cares if you are here.
Once again "your" should be "you're"...which is short for you are. Don't worry about paying me a fee for this. I believe in helping those who are challenged.
I disagree. Here is why...
1) If you look at Bama circa 2006, compare it to what WVU is now, you're right. What changed Bama's fortunes? Obviously, Nick Saban. We agree on that, too.
However, what Nick Saban brought to Bama is something WVU won't ever get - NFL head coaching experience - even a failed one at that. When you walk into a 4 or 5 star's house and say I've coached in the NFL and I know what it takes to get there, that says something. That's why Bama is where they are right now - he said it and backed it up with results as one can look at any year's draft and see.
Next, Bama had a history of winning and winning big. WVU.... well, it doesn't. People all over the country know who Bear Bryant was. Few outside of WV even have a clue who Don Nehlen is.
2) Yes, WVU beat Clemson. It humiliated them so badly they went out and spent ungodly amounts of money, squeezing every last penny out of their boosters they possibly could, and built the best college football facilities in America. They used that to lure in Watson and a whole host of others and now can keep it going. WVU cannot match that money in any way, shape, or form. So, the Clemson model is out.
3) WVU had a coaching search just a couple of years ago. No Saban's, Bryants, former NFL head coaches, or goofy Clemson coaches came knocking on our door. We hired the best one that applied - unless you think the AD intentionally shanked us by hiring Brown and letting the next Lombardi walk out the door?
4) ISU is the beneficiary of a weaker than usual B12 right now. Virtually every team had to replace their starting QB's last year. ISU will get exposed this year as the year wears on - their one's can play with anyone. Their two's, not so much. Campbell is doing a great job there. Can he keep it up? I doubt it but that remains to be seen.
I don't think WVU is as undesirable a job as some make it out to be for quality coaches. WVU is pretty high up in number of wins compared to most programs in the country. WVU has played for the MNC and been very close--something most programs never sniffed ever.
WVUs fanbase support has been as good as numerous programs some think are more established and they've had pretty good tv ratings for being from such a small population state.
WVU may not be a place you will park your career at indefinitely, but neither are some powers like Ohio State or Oklahoma.
And its not just the head coach anyway--Dabo got his arse kicked by Holgorsen--and then went out and got a great D coordinator when Stoops made the mistake of hiring his brother to coach D at OU. Now with both O and D they are outstanding (also playing in the lightweight acc which won 0 bowls last year as an example of conference strength vs. the BIG 12 which was undefeated).
Holgorsen wasn't able to do that--had to hire WV connected D coordinators and how many games did WVU lose when no matter how many pts the O scored, the D just couldn't get stops when it mattered.
If he'd had a great D to go with the 0 then success wouldve been much greater.
WVU doesn't have to settle for G5 coaches that need to learn on the job.
The BIG 12 was still the toughest top to bottom conference, it isn't weaker--if you look at ranked teams played and teams wins last season, we see that the BIG 12 shouldve made the playoff over the lighter B10 schedules and less impressive resume.
If WVU was so desirable, why did 2 out of the last 3 of them have to be lifetime assistant coaches, i.e. Stewart and Dana?
If everything you said was true, then there should have been a plethora of big name head coaches beating down the doors in both 07 and 12. There weren't, nor will there be. Let's face it, you know it and I know it, WVU isn't a destination school. It IS a place where G5 coaches take as a step up. That's likely the best we're ever going to get.
Our small but dedicated fanbase isn't going to lure anyone here. That's a pipe dream.
Chad Morris has made Clemson into a perennial contender. However, he's been offered head coaching jobs at numerous schools and refuses to even listen. He knows he's got a good thing going on down there.
Holgerson didn't have to hire from within the state. Look at his first 3 or 4 coordinators. Some were the pits like Bedenbaugh, some were just average, and one was Tony Gibson who turned out to be the best (that's not saying much) of all of them. Truth is, Dana couldn't lure in a big time coordinator because he wasn't a big enough name himself. No Morris', Andrews', or Foster's ever even sniffed out a resume. He had to settle for who he could get.
I agree, with a big name defensive name (as a head coach) we MIGHT have won more games. As the saying goes, offense wins games, defense wins championships. That's why I like Brown more than Dana, his focus is more defensive oriented. Last year, he had the best defense in the B12, which as you say was the toughest from top to bottom. Now, when an offense comes along to match, maybe we can contend for the conference.
If everything you said was true, then there should have been a plethora of big name head coaches beating down the doors in both 07 and 12. There weren't, nor will there be. Let's face it, you know it and I know it, WVU isn't a destination school. It IS a place where G5 coaches take as a step up. That's likely the best we're ever going to get.
Our small but dedicated fanbase isn't going to lure anyone here. That's a pipe dream.
Chad Morris has made Clemson into a perennial contender. However, he's been offered head coaching jobs at numerous schools and refuses to even listen. He knows he's got a good thing going on down there.
Holgerson didn't have to hire from within the state. Look at his first 3 or 4 coordinators. Some were the pits like Bedenbaugh, some were just average, and one was Tony Gibson who turned out to be the best (that's not saying much) of all of them. Truth is, Dana couldn't lure in a big time coordinator because he wasn't a big enough name himself. No Morris', Andrews', or Foster's ever even sniffed out a resume. He had to settle for who he could get.
I agree, with a big name defensive name (as a head coach) we MIGHT have won more games. As the saying goes, offense wins games, defense wins championships. That's why I like Brown more than Dana, his focus is more defensive oriented. Last year, he had the best defense in the B12, which as you say was the toughest from top to bottom. Now, when an offense comes along to match, maybe we can contend for the conference.
this could not be said any better.
people who live in clarksburg dont question why their town isnt a tourist destination and compare themselves to Cancun.
That's just nonsense.
2 of the last 3 didn't "have to be assistant coaches," thats who WVU chose to hire.
Holgorsen ended up being the second winningest coach in WVU history--him being an assistant didn't hurt that--had he had solid defenses his teams would have won even more games. Being an assistant doesn't mean you couldn't be or aren't a great coach.
Again, what does a "big name" coach have to do with anything? Dabo wasn't a "big name coach" and look at Clemson. ISU's coach wasn't a "big name coach"--they are moving up quick.
You need a solid staff, a "big name coach" isn't the only way to win games.
Holgorsen started off with a D coordinator that was already at WVU (Casteel-who quit). Then he tried Bedenbaugh and he moved on pretty quick so he moved someone in that didn't work out great--and then Holgorsen was pushed to hire Gibson (WV ties) who had never been a coordinator, did ok but never could get those stops when it was needed. The university should have found and paid the best possible, just like they found Gibson and pushed him on Holgorsen.
Meanwhile Clemson hired a top notch D coordinator and paid him like it and the results speak for themselves.
Brown is losing at an epic clip, in the bottom four of coaches EVER at WVU. His defenses haven't stopped anyone more than the previous staffs did, from winning games, and the offense is now non existent.
I see Brown with multiple 14 pt or fewer games (8 so far in 2 seasons)--if the D can't hold anyone below that?
Meanwhile the D is giving up these scores-not exactly stellar:
2020
OK State 27 WVU 13
ISU 42 WVU 6
2019
Mizzou 38 WVU 7
Texas 42 WVU 31
ISU 38 WVU 14
OU 52 WVU 14
T Tech 38 WVU 17
2012:
TTU: 49-14
KSU: 55-14
OSU: 55-34
Syracuse: 38-14
2013:
Maryland: 37-0
Baylor: 73-42
Kansas State: 35-12
Kansas: 31-19
ISU: 52-44
For one, what other coaches wanted the WVU job that were better candidates? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the Stewart hire, that was a debacle. Remember, Dana was hired as the "coach in waiting" and offensive coordinator. So, who was a better candidate than Holgerson that WVU didn't hire that wanted a job here?
I agree that being an assistant doesn't mean you can't be a great head coach. That is the bar you have set as you implied that WVU left other better qualified candidates out to hire Stewart, Dana, and later Brown. So, who were better candidates that wanted the job?
I'll give you Dabo. Matt Campbell is debatable.
If I recall, I believe that WVU was actually trying to get Brent Venables (sorry I wrote Chad Morris) and he turned us down to go to Clemson. See the January 13, 2012 SBNation article. If your premise that Dabo was a no-name coach and Dana was a much better coach, especially in 2012, then why did Venables turn down the offer? Before you say the money, which would likely be correct, remember this is BEFORE WVU had ever played a down in the B12. After several years in the B12, and WVU having the money, why didn't Venables, Mickey Andrews, etc. leave to become WVU's coordinator?
For the stats department, let's be consistent and compare the first two seasons for each coach. Each had a major step up to the B12 from their previous assignments. It appears you have set the bar at 27 points for the defense to give up as acceptable for a game. I would prefer a little lower but that's not important.
In his first two years, Brown has given up 27 or more points 7 times. Fortunately for Brown, only two of those 7 came in year 2.
In the first two years for Dana, he gave up 27 or more points 17 times. Nine of those came in year one, 8 in year two. All told, Dana gave up 27 or more points 47 times. Granted, some of those came in wins.
Willing to give each coach the benefit of a doubt of a first year of horrendous play, as there is quite a bit of jump from Big East/G5 league play to the B12, what each coach does in his second and subsequent years could predict a trend.
So clearly, as the evidence shows, Brown's defenses are world's better than Dana's were. The stats and eyeball test shows this. That isn't even debatable.
Dana was an incredible offensive mind who did a respectable job here no matter what some might say. But no equally talented or better defensive coordinator was or will work for him. Without a respectable defense, which occurred only twice in Dana's reign (2016 & 2017), WVU was never going to reach the upper echelon of the B12. Head coaching material is debatable also, as his record in Houston attests.
Will Brown reach those heights? Probably not. But if the defense continues the way they are trending they'll have a much better shot if they can find a modicum of offense in the years to come.
Thanks. Got quit typing so fast. We need more grammar experts and ******** on the board.
Excellent post.
That better offense will need a better QB. Not sure we have one on the team. A better offensive line would also help.
First 2 years in Big 12.
2019 - 5-7
2020 - 6-4
Total - 11-11
2012 - 7-6
2013 - 4-8
Total - 11-14 (with some of the best offensive players in WVU HISTORY)
Brown will get his 4 to 5 years to prove himself. So I suggest you hold on tight cause it's going to be awhile.
Yes and I've discussed Holgorsen didn't have good defenses which was the issue --still won more games than anyone EVER except for the great Don Nehlen. In those games with DH, it was the first two years in the talented BIG 12, trying to compete with the depleted roster Stewart left where he intentionally under recruited for years.
Brown is losing games like that and doesn't have any offense either--where Holgorsen had WVU top 10 just before he left. But WVU wasn't in a new conference they weren't built for yet either--years of experience in the players--many of whom he pushed out including starters.
I've seen the facilities at WVU, VT, PSU, OSU, Miami and FSU. WVU had the worst over the past decade. VT is heading in that direction as their current administration is clueless. FSU had the best and they have a "special" gameday experience as does PSU.
I've been to lots of football stadiums all over--WVUs is not the worst out there by far and they've made several improvements recently to upgrade. Also the new football center looked quite nice from what I've seen.
WVU wasn't getting the money they get now in the BIG 12 until about 5-7 years ago where they caught up to some of these other programs. Even acc payouts were higher than BE payouts--and facility upgrades aren't cheap. Finally WVU has the type of resources to compete better on that.
didnt WVU just finish a new football facility? I'm thinking you know very little about WVUs facilities.
They are not as good as what these major powers have. You are in a state of denial. Back in 1990 Colorado and GT split a title. For fans that was great that two schools who were not powers won a title via the back door. But the networks considered it a nightmare. It made a mess of the bowl games. Neither of those schools would have beaten FSU or Miami that year. They do not want that to happen again and it won't. WVU is not one of the boys. WVU's best chance was 07. The 88 team would have gotten hammered even if Major were healthy because ND was that good. Get Nehlen "alone" and ask him for insights about that game and team. You'll be shocked at what he will say.
How do you know what facilities WVU has as compared to someone else. You don't. But one can clearly see WVU is each year, creating great new facilities on par with many many schools and better than others.
The college football playoff is on the verge of expanding. You may have noticed.
What did I just tell you. I have seen WVU's facilities and that of the aforementioned schools I mentioned. You are hard headed. I can imagine working with you. You probably drive people to serious alcoholism. WVU will never have the depth to get to the playoff. They could never beat OU twice.
I think WVU with a healthy Major would of hung with Notre Dame and been in it till halftime, but the Irish would have won going away. West Virginia did not have the same depth nor team speed.
I agree with you. They were that good.
Exactly. Just go back and look at the separation their receivers had in that game. It was a mismatch. People involved realized it a quarter into the game.
We're in the Mullen days of offensive football again. Top 5 in conference would be a miracle despite that.
Defense wasn't even close to being good enough to stop Notre Dame. Offense even with Major we would have struggled against the best defense they saw all season.
WVU's secondary was terrible that game even Bo Orlando. He was horrible in coverage that game. Those corners looked like **** on those option plays. Rice was even running them over. WVU was not physical enough to beat Notre Dame.