ATTENTION, irresponsible ringers:
- Thread starter Mr Meoff
- Start date
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...you won't acknowledge that there will be consequences and you offer some stupid line about civil disobedience and then admit that it doesn't make any sense.
Maybe you are just 17ing with the board. I don't know. I sure would like to know how you plan on this working, though.
Maybe you are just 17ing with the board. I don't know. I sure would like to know how you plan on this working, though.
First, you can't compare a sporting event that occurred 4 days after 9/11 to a game where you are trying to keep cowbells out. Not even remotely close for comparison purposes. We were worried about somebody blowing up a stadium, not a few hundred contraband cowbells.
I will admit though, the first thing that came to mind when I envisioned "metal detector" was the ones you walk through, not the wand. I hope anyone can see how impractical a walk-through metal detector (think prisons and airport security) could be. The false detections and morons that can't comprehend that you can't walk through a metal detector with a pocketful of change, a large belt buckle, sun glasses, and a watch on without setting is off make it a terrible solution. The time it would take to get everyone through a metal detector would suck.
A wand? Maybe. I think I was scanned with a wand at a Cowboys game last year. So, it's doable, but still not practical. It took a while to get through my gate entrance even though there were only 50 or so in front of me. But the bottom line is it's not hard to spot a cowbell. Just pat people down and actually take away the cowbell instead of turning a blind eye to it like we did in years past. The metal detector wand will do the same thing as a hand. It will just point you to where a piece of metal is, then you pat to check for a cowbell. Just cut to the chase and pat where cowbells could be lurking and move on to the next person.
There's just 3 things that need to happen to effectively eliminate cowbells:
1) Ad campaign explaining the fine structure and why you are a terrible person if you help us get fined
2) Gate pat down
3) Kick out violators (most importantly)
That will get the message across. Even if you manage to ignore the "you're an *** hole" campaign and sneak one in past the pat down, the sight of the fan 3 rows down being removed from the game will silence your bell (in most cases) pretty quickly.
I suggest this because I don't want to have to sacrifice an extra hour of quality Junction time because of the cowbell police...
it would be a logistical nightmare. Personally speaking, there is no way in hell I'm taking off a beltfor a security guard. Patdowns?? No, I won't be getting frisked either.
Confiscate in the stands will be the only viable solution. A few games ofasignificant confiscation effortand cowbells will be no more.
Confiscate in the stands will be the only viable solution. A few games ofasignificant confiscation effortand cowbells will be no more.
Maybe the fines come. Maybe the AD incorporates them into the budget and goes on letting the fan base participate in its tradition and not make a big deal out of it. Let the other schools ***** and moan and MSU can play the victim. Let the SEC keep upping the ante and look like asses in the press? Maybe the AD uses it to rally the fan base further and solicit more donations? Maybe Freeport McMoran makes a donation covering said fines?
Don't the fines go to charity? Have the Palmer home for Children (or insert charity here) have a bunch of kids taking up donations to cover the fines at games?
There are a ton of scenarios that can play out. I don't think it's an either/or situation and I'd like to see the administration stick to its guns.
Don't the fines go to charity? Have the Palmer home for Children (or insert charity here) have a bunch of kids taking up donations to cover the fines at games?
There are a ton of scenarios that can play out. I don't think it's an either/or situation and I'd like to see the administration stick to its guns.
Just because it's on gov't property doesn't mean it's not a private event. You need a ticket 'n' ****.
....and you can either get patted down or not get in the game. Most will choose to watch football.
But your larger point remains. It would take a combination of patdowns and aggressive confiscating for about 3 games, that would be the end of that.
But your larger point remains. It would take a combination of patdowns and aggressive confiscating for about 3 games, that would be the end of that.
incorporating it into our budget. that won't happen. having someone donate the money to pay the fine is much more of a possibility that eating it in the budget.
you say that they should stick to their guns, which i previously thought you meant fighting the SEC to not fine us. but it sounds like from the rest of your post that you are suggesting the AD should totally disregard thousands of dollars being levied in fines to our university and instead find ways to pay for it. that sounds fine in theory but the fact of the matter is we have one of the smallest budgets in the SEC, have a much smaller fan base, have smaller endowments, and in general do not have as much money to go around as other SEC schools. expecting the AD to "stick to his guns" in this situation is a bit absurd. even if someone provided us with the money to pay the fines, it would still suck to not use that much cash for other things much more important than filling the SEC bank account.
so you are right, it doesn't have to be an either/or situation but unfortunately it most likely is. you disregarding our financial situation is dumb.
you say that they should stick to their guns, which i previously thought you meant fighting the SEC to not fine us. but it sounds like from the rest of your post that you are suggesting the AD should totally disregard thousands of dollars being levied in fines to our university and instead find ways to pay for it. that sounds fine in theory but the fact of the matter is we have one of the smallest budgets in the SEC, have a much smaller fan base, have smaller endowments, and in general do not have as much money to go around as other SEC schools. expecting the AD to "stick to his guns" in this situation is a bit absurd. even if someone provided us with the money to pay the fines, it would still suck to not use that much cash for other things much more important than filling the SEC bank account.
so you are right, it doesn't have to be an either/or situation but unfortunately it most likely is. you disregarding our financial situation is dumb.
I'd like a new airplane. I'll just "incorporate it into the budget." So what gets cut in order to pay cowbell fines? Mullen's salary? Expansion efforts?
And the SEC will just up the fines until we are forced to comply. They can and will do that. It's not that hard to understand. You are just refusing to listen to anything other than what you want to hear.
And the SEC will just up the fines until we are forced to comply. They can and will do that. It's not that hard to understand. You are just refusing to listen to anything other than what you want to hear.
Of course there are consequences. I would just like to see the administration stand by our traditions instead of being pushed around by the conference. I also believe that the Cowbells can be protected if the administration and fan base are willing to show the conference that their penalties/fines won't have much effect. Make the conference look like the big bully. If you can envision a scenario where the leadership has the cojones to pull of such a move, then you can see where the Cowbells can be preserved.
If you are going to obsess over fines and cowbell gestapos, then, no, you can't fathom still having the cowbells and will waste your time ridiculing your own fan base.
If you are going to obsess over fines and cowbell gestapos, then, no, you can't fathom still having the cowbells and will waste your time ridiculing your own fan base.
....for spite purposes. We're last in the SEC budget wise, but if they ban cowbells, our giving will easily triple.
....$25,000 in fines every week?
Do you think that they should do that when we have the smallest budget in the SEC?
Do you think that they should do that when we have the smallest budget in the SEC?
the first few games but after that people would line up earlier so they could get to their seats on time. as for the metal detectors, you may be right. that is why i said it "might" be something they do. who knows.
i agree with taking them up in the stands as the biggest deterrent. throw a few people out and it would work extremely fast.
i agree with taking them up in the stands as the biggest deterrent. throw a few people out and it would work extremely fast.
We undoubtedly violate the rule every time after a big play. I do it. Probably not even consciously. And from the sounds of it, I'd guess over 90% of people with a bell at arm's length do the same.
If not being able to ring the bell after a big non-scoring play is always going to be part of the frame-work, I don't think there is any way we can pull that off. Not without more education at least.
Even if Stricklin and Mullen go to the 50 yard line and plead with us to be compliant to save the tradition before the game Saturday, I don't think we'll comply without them explaining that we can't ring even after the defense comes up with an opportune sack or Relf converts an important 3rd and 10 pass. Those are technically off limits as well, but I don't think anyone fully acknowledges that. I think most everyone is thinking that as long as we don't ring when the the opponents offense is at the LOS, we are "okay". That is not the case, by rule.
That, or maybe I'm just the jerk that everyone is getting worked up about and I don't even know it?
If not being able to ring the bell after a big non-scoring play is always going to be part of the frame-work, I don't think there is any way we can pull that off. Not without more education at least.
Even if Stricklin and Mullen go to the 50 yard line and plead with us to be compliant to save the tradition before the game Saturday, I don't think we'll comply without them explaining that we can't ring even after the defense comes up with an opportune sack or Relf converts an important 3rd and 10 pass. Those are technically off limits as well, but I don't think anyone fully acknowledges that. I think most everyone is thinking that as long as we don't ring when the the opponents offense is at the LOS, we are "okay". That is not the case, by rule.
That, or maybe I'm just the jerk that everyone is getting worked up about and I don't even know it?
Are you that naive? Come on man wake up. I don't know why you and everyone else is so mad about this. Anybody with half a brain new this was doomed from thebeginning.<div>
</div><div>Believe it or not, even though I am a big supporter of people ringing whenever they want to I don't even bring a cowbell to games. Haven't in years. But people will ring them on third and short in big games no matter how much you huff and puff, no matter how much the school gets fined and no matter what kind of "enforcement" comes down the pipe. So why not ring them if you know 25K other people are and they are going to get banned anyway? Use them as advantage while we have an advantage.</div><div>
</div><div>So in closing accept this situation for what it is and what it was from thebeginningand get the **** over it.
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</div><div>Believe it or not, even though I am a big supporter of people ringing whenever they want to I don't even bring a cowbell to games. Haven't in years. But people will ring them on third and short in big games no matter how much you huff and puff, no matter how much the school gets fined and no matter what kind of "enforcement" comes down the pipe. So why not ring them if you know 25K other people are and they are going to get banned anyway? Use them as advantage while we have an advantage.</div><div>
</div><div>So in closing accept this situation for what it is and what it was from thebeginningand get the **** over it.
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They used a wand the last 2 times I went to a game at UT. I don't know if they still do it, but I had a cop pat me and friends down at the visiting player's friend entrance at Florida in 2000. I remember the cop hitting my can of skoal with a baton and I had so show him what it was before he let me in.
If its practical to check 100000+ in Knoxville, it is practical to check 50000 plus in Starkville.
If its practical to check 100000+ in Knoxville, it is practical to check 50000 plus in Starkville.
and I'm not disregarding it at all. The fines can be paid whether you want to call it "incorporating it into the budget," "raising the funds privately" or "doubling the price of cheese." It's all semantics.
Say MSU is fined 250k for this season for cowbell violations. On a 40mm budget, that's only 7/10ths of one percent of the budget. Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. (and yes I realize it's a recession and it sucks to not be using this money for something else). Say next year the SEC says they will fine 100k a game for cowbell violations. That's 400k for 2011 or 1% of the budget. If it's paid and the administration doesn't say anything about it and continue letting the bells ring. What's the SEC's next move? $1mm? That starts really attracting attention and bad press for the SEC? MSU can play the victim in the press and there are plenty of friendly writers who need something to write about and will take a sympathetic stance on MSUs tradition. The press can exert pressure that little old MSU can't. Call the SEC out for picking on the poorest and the littlest of the conference, in the poorest and littlest state in the US. The SEC can continue to look like complete ********, or they can back down and reach some kind of unenforceable agreement that makes it look like the conference won, but doesn't actually change anything.
As to paying the fines, there are plenty of ways to get ahead of that so that the money is already there whether it's through season ticket donations, private donors, corporate donors, etc... Give them publicity as a "Cowbell Partner" or some such jargon. Frankly, there is more money coming into the budget than what was probably budgeted, simply because of the uptick in attendance. And there will have to be more money available because old Danny Mullen is going to need a **** load more money after this season. Hell, he could donate to the Cowbell fund, he needs tax deductions.
You may think this absurd, but it's not unthinkable. And it could be done with the right leadership and the cojones to make a stand. The downside is it will be costly in the short term. The upside is that it invigorates the fan base and helps spur more interest. More interest = more ticket sales = more donations = more revenue (think the NRA playing off Obama taking away your guns). It's an easy plot line and an easy sell if the administration wants to expend the energy to do it.
Say MSU is fined 250k for this season for cowbell violations. On a 40mm budget, that's only 7/10ths of one percent of the budget. Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. (and yes I realize it's a recession and it sucks to not be using this money for something else). Say next year the SEC says they will fine 100k a game for cowbell violations. That's 400k for 2011 or 1% of the budget. If it's paid and the administration doesn't say anything about it and continue letting the bells ring. What's the SEC's next move? $1mm? That starts really attracting attention and bad press for the SEC? MSU can play the victim in the press and there are plenty of friendly writers who need something to write about and will take a sympathetic stance on MSUs tradition. The press can exert pressure that little old MSU can't. Call the SEC out for picking on the poorest and the littlest of the conference, in the poorest and littlest state in the US. The SEC can continue to look like complete ********, or they can back down and reach some kind of unenforceable agreement that makes it look like the conference won, but doesn't actually change anything.
As to paying the fines, there are plenty of ways to get ahead of that so that the money is already there whether it's through season ticket donations, private donors, corporate donors, etc... Give them publicity as a "Cowbell Partner" or some such jargon. Frankly, there is more money coming into the budget than what was probably budgeted, simply because of the uptick in attendance. And there will have to be more money available because old Danny Mullen is going to need a **** load more money after this season. Hell, he could donate to the Cowbell fund, he needs tax deductions.
You may think this absurd, but it's not unthinkable. And it could be done with the right leadership and the cojones to make a stand. The downside is it will be costly in the short term. The upside is that it invigorates the fan base and helps spur more interest. More interest = more ticket sales = more donations = more revenue (think the NRA playing off Obama taking away your guns). It's an easy plot line and an easy sell if the administration wants to expend the energy to do it.
....try to grasp it. If you really try, maybe you can.
1) Prior to this year, the SEC has basically looked the other way for 36 years since the "ban" was put in place. The reasons why don't matter, but as most on here would say, it was probably because we usually sucked.
2) The SEC made the cowbells an agenda item for their meeting this past summer. The reasons why don't matter, but as most on here would say, it was probably because we are getting better and Meyer complained about it.
3) As Scott said in his interview, the other schools were ready to ban the cowbell altogether, and enforce that ban with a stiff fine structure. This is fact.
4) Scott convinced them to let us continue to have our tradition under the "cowbell compromise." The compromise was put in place for one year. If the terms of the compromise are violated, we get fined, and most importantly, they will review the results and compliance and next year's meeting.
5) We have not met the terms of the compromise.
6) At next year's meeting, the other schools will likely scrap the compromise and ban them altogether with a fine structure that is significant.
7) The AD has no extra money, so the AD will be forced to enforce the ban.
8) They can easily do this by patdowns and confiscating. It's not hard. It's done at other schools. It won't take long. It is easy to enforce.
9) People like me and most on this board do not want the university to pay unnecessary fines and will leave the bells at home. Other people who try to sneak them in will have them taken up, quite easily, and they will soon tire of that and begin leaving them at home. The numbers of cowbells in the stands will trickle to a few hundred.
10) Once this is achieved, there will be no going back. The tradition will be forever dead.
It's not that hard to understand. And the "did you honestly expect this to work" question doesn't matter. It was 'lose them this year' or 'try this compromise thing' and we'll see. We chose option b. And to answer your irrelevant and stupid question, I really never gave it more than a 30-40% chance of success. However, I can see that estimate was way overblown, because I obviously underestimated the number of full out idiots in our fan base, of which you apparently are a card carrying member.
1) Prior to this year, the SEC has basically looked the other way for 36 years since the "ban" was put in place. The reasons why don't matter, but as most on here would say, it was probably because we usually sucked.
2) The SEC made the cowbells an agenda item for their meeting this past summer. The reasons why don't matter, but as most on here would say, it was probably because we are getting better and Meyer complained about it.
3) As Scott said in his interview, the other schools were ready to ban the cowbell altogether, and enforce that ban with a stiff fine structure. This is fact.
4) Scott convinced them to let us continue to have our tradition under the "cowbell compromise." The compromise was put in place for one year. If the terms of the compromise are violated, we get fined, and most importantly, they will review the results and compliance and next year's meeting.
5) We have not met the terms of the compromise.
6) At next year's meeting, the other schools will likely scrap the compromise and ban them altogether with a fine structure that is significant.
7) The AD has no extra money, so the AD will be forced to enforce the ban.
8) They can easily do this by patdowns and confiscating. It's not hard. It's done at other schools. It won't take long. It is easy to enforce.
9) People like me and most on this board do not want the university to pay unnecessary fines and will leave the bells at home. Other people who try to sneak them in will have them taken up, quite easily, and they will soon tire of that and begin leaving them at home. The numbers of cowbells in the stands will trickle to a few hundred.
10) Once this is achieved, there will be no going back. The tradition will be forever dead.
It's not that hard to understand. And the "did you honestly expect this to work" question doesn't matter. It was 'lose them this year' or 'try this compromise thing' and we'll see. We chose option b. And to answer your irrelevant and stupid question, I really never gave it more than a 30-40% chance of success. However, I can see that estimate was way overblown, because I obviously underestimated the number of full out idiots in our fan base, of which you apparently are a card carrying member.
I can see it now... A MSU student in the student section saying to another student violating the cowbell rules, " Hey man stop ringing that bell were going to get it banned and lose them forever!" Guy who is ringing it, " 17 off you douche." there is no way around it 18-22 year old college students just don't give a damn about when to ring and not to ring. And yes most of our fans are rednecks.. Also, they are people who don't have twitter or facebook or read message boards that contain information regarding the cowbell situation, all they know is that they can bring a cowbell into the game legally now.
I guess that this just now became an issue because we are finally filling up our stadium and becoming relevant in the SEC which is stupid and sounds like all the other teams are crying about it. We currently have a 55k-58k stadium big deal if we have cowbells.. maybe if we expand to above 65k i see it becoming a problem, but jeez being worried about us becoming a powerhouse and winning our home games because of cowbells is just plain dumb
I guess that this just now became an issue because we are finally filling up our stadium and becoming relevant in the SEC which is stupid and sounds like all the other teams are crying about it. We currently have a 55k-58k stadium big deal if we have cowbells.. maybe if we expand to above 65k i see it becoming a problem, but jeez being worried about us becoming a powerhouse and winning our home games because of cowbells is just plain dumb
I didn't mention having Megan Mullen doing the spot, but that's a no-brainer.
She's the greatest untapped resource we have right now. She's a great speaker, has great experience behind a camera, loves this university and this town, and is good looking. Also, I think due to her experience, she wouldn't shy away from an opportunity to improve/help the program/university.
I think we need to get her a lot more involved with fundraising/promotionals.
She's the greatest untapped resource we have right now. She's a great speaker, has great experience behind a camera, loves this university and this town, and is good looking. Also, I think due to her experience, she wouldn't shy away from an opportunity to improve/help the program/university.
I think we need to get her a lot more involved with fundraising/promotionals.
a few years back when they had a progression of an official warning, and then a yardage penalty after the warning? Is this correct and whatever happened to that?
Ok here's where we are:
- if this fails in the next two games, they will be gone... For good just as has been said multiple times in this thread.
- the SEC wants to see a vast improvement in our ringing - if we are not in FULL compliance after this season, but are significantly better than we were at the beginning of the season and in years past, we will be fine. The most realistic scenario is that we will get a one year extension on the new rule to see if we can work next seasonto get in FULL compliance. Now this can ONLY happen if we make SIGNIFICANT improvement over the next two games, and Scott and Dr. keenum are able tonshow them that in January. They will be able to show them that it is impossible to completely change a tradition of this kind in just 7 games.
- they will not fine us if we ring after a big play. Despite how the rule is written, it is in the books to prevent us from using them in a distractive nature - ex. When they are on the line waiting to snap the ball.
- if we fail in these next two games, we WILL have metal detector wands and pat downs. And realize, they will find more than just cowbells when they do these.
It will never go back to how it was, the university is expecting fines to come in much much higher than these this year if we return to the ban. These fines will be huge in comparison to the ones this year and the university will be forced to make sure they do not get into the stadium, and that the ones which do get taken up from the stands.
We HAVE to improve over these next two games.
- if this fails in the next two games, they will be gone... For good just as has been said multiple times in this thread.
- the SEC wants to see a vast improvement in our ringing - if we are not in FULL compliance after this season, but are significantly better than we were at the beginning of the season and in years past, we will be fine. The most realistic scenario is that we will get a one year extension on the new rule to see if we can work next seasonto get in FULL compliance. Now this can ONLY happen if we make SIGNIFICANT improvement over the next two games, and Scott and Dr. keenum are able tonshow them that in January. They will be able to show them that it is impossible to completely change a tradition of this kind in just 7 games.
- they will not fine us if we ring after a big play. Despite how the rule is written, it is in the books to prevent us from using them in a distractive nature - ex. When they are on the line waiting to snap the ball.
- if we fail in these next two games, we WILL have metal detector wands and pat downs. And realize, they will find more than just cowbells when they do these.
It will never go back to how it was, the university is expecting fines to come in much much higher than these this year if we return to the ban. These fines will be huge in comparison to the ones this year and the university will be forced to make sure they do not get into the stadium, and that the ones which do get taken up from the stands.
We HAVE to improve over these next two games.
MSU has always found the money for projects/initiatives when it has needed to. It can be done, despite your disbelief.
Why don't you check out the CEO the Accounting school is named after? Think he might have anything to do with the basketball practice facility? A football stadium expansion?
Why don't you check out the CEO the Accounting school is named after? Think he might have anything to do with the basketball practice facility? A football stadium expansion?
The rule is not a 'cowbell' rule or a 'ring responsibly' rule. It's an artificial noisemaker rule. That was covered ad nauseam when the rule was passed before the season. Our 'ring responsibly' campaign is simply a pawing attempt to make the less intelligent faction of our fanbase understand the rule.
From multiple sources. It will not go back to what it was. The fines will be large enough that we will not be able to just pay them and ignore the rule. They were going to do it anyway. All the "compromise" accomplished is to make it look like our fault when they are banned.
Wrong, it was done to give us the opportunity to prove how important the cowbells were to us. We still have the chance to make this work, if we can get better over the next two games.
Like Scott has said, if they were truly important to our ENTIRE fan base who bring them, then we would learn to comply. Meaning get better over time as we get used to the rule.
And if they do get banned again, it will completely be the fault of the fans whonare ringing them irresponsibly. The university has done everything they could possibly donto get the message and the rules out there. And the SEC sees that, thats why if we can get better in the next two games. We will get an extension on this rule.
Like Scott has said, if they were truly important to our ENTIRE fan base who bring them, then we would learn to comply. Meaning get better over time as we get used to the rule.
And if they do get banned again, it will completely be the fault of the fans whonare ringing them irresponsibly. The university has done everything they could possibly donto get the message and the rules out there. And the SEC sees that, thats why if we can get better in the next two games. We will get an extension on this rule.
I dont think you underestimated the amount of idiots in our fan base, just underestimated the amount of apathetic fair weather fans that now actually come to the football games because we are winning and have a good coach for the first time in a decade
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