Basketball Season just around the corner...

[engie]

I know many here are bracing for the worst season(s) most of us can readily remember, but it is still starting in just over a week, and I'm getting excited about seeing something different regardless of how bad we may end up being. Here is Veazey's article regarding today's scrimmage. Quite a few interesting takes from the article:

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/msu/...gs-approach-start-of-hoops-season-with-video/

Obviously the Bulldogs will go through some first-year growing pains under Rick Ray after the roster was depleted with early departures and graduation, but I can say this: for the first time since I’ve been on the MSU beat, players were not gasping for air and tugging at their uniforms midway through the scrimmage.

If you’re looking for a potential breakout star, look no further than Thomas. It was only a 20-minute scrimmage, but he drilled a couple of jumpers and led all scorers with 16 points on 5-of-9 shooting.

Guards Fred Thomas and Craig Sword were especially impressive, though Sword did commit four turnovers. Freshman center Gavin Ware also made a few good moves near the basket, dunking the ball with authority a couple of times.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I'll bite.

i will admit that I didn't think I would be interested, but now that it's here I'm excited about it. We may very well suck, but it will be fun to watch these young guys grow for 4 years. Based on Veazy and a few tweets from Carskadon, it appears they were a little surprised at some of the talent they saw out there. I would love to see this group go out there and surprise us all.

 

[MetEdDawg]

We were picked to finish last in the SEC.

If we finish anywhere but last I will be happy with how this season goes. I think Rick Ray is going to do good and I think there is talent on this team. Thomas, Steele, Sword, and Ware are pretty decent players, but our depth is going to kill us. I think in a couple years this starting lineup could be very good and I think Ray will develop them into solid players. But again, it's going to take time and Ray is going to have to get some talented bodies in here.

 

[jwbigcreek]

I see an early Rob Evans type team. Hustling but sucking. If the other team shoots poorly, or if we shoot well, we might win an SEC game. If they bust their *** & improve over the season, I'll take it. Ray needs to get some more talent in though.

 

[mcdawg22]

Is this like a Karl Walker sighting because, I'll admit it's Halloween and I'm a little scared.

 

[MSUBully1]

Basketball season or lack thereof

I know many here are bracing for the worst season(s) most of us can readily remember, but it is still starting in just over a week, and I'm getting excited about seeing something different regardless of how bad we may end up being. Here is Veazey's article regarding today's scrimmage. Quite a few interesting takes from the article:

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/msu/...gs-approach-start-of-hoops-season-with-video/

Is it possible to finish 15th in a 14 team league? I think State doesn't win any games this year. How, please tell me, is this better than the conisistent winning at least 20 games every year. How is this better. I don't think State basketball will be relavant for about 8 to 10 years.

Players left, signees decided to go elsewhere, State got an unproven and very unknown coach...... What a mess.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Is it possible to finish 15th in a 14 team league? I think State doesn't win any games this year. How, please tell me, is this better than the conisistent winning at least 20 games every year. How is this better. I don' think State basketball will be relavant for about 12 years.

Here we go.....

 

[DAWG61]

Here's my guess at the starting 5...

PG Sword
SG Steele
SG/SF Thomas
PF Lewis
C Ware

This 5 will get slaughtered on the boards and give up a massive amount of points in the paint. Also with no true PG and zero depth it will be a long frustrating season. Can't wait! If you've seen Jimmy from Hoosiers please kidnap him and drop him off in the Hump.

 

[DAWG61]

8 or 10 years? Good lord get a grip man. This is basketball not football. Sign 3 HS studs and you're good the very next year.

 

[MSUDC11]

We won't be good this year, but I do like to think that Ray has a core group he can build a program with. Lewis is the only senior.

There will be quite a few growing pains, but I do think we have some young talent. I can see us being a résumé ruiner for someone. As in we win 10 games but beat Ole Miss or Bama and keep them out of the NCAAT.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

Veazey? We could only wish to be that lucky.

 

[Philly Dawg]

Sword and possibly Thomas are quality signees. The key for Ray will be recruiting going forward.

 

[shotgunDawg]

My goodness, we sound just like Ole Miss football fans in August. If the same pattern holds true, we will be the SEC's hottest team after beating Auburn and LSU in basketball. Just show you how much perspective makes a difference.

 

[engie]

Is it possible to finish 15th in a 14 team league? I think State doesn't win any games this year. How, please tell me, is this better than the conisistent winning at least 20 games every year. How is this better. I don't think State basketball will be relavant for about 8 to 10 years.

Players left, signees decided to go elsewhere, State got an unproven and very unknown coach...... What a mess.

Been awhile since we've seen you around here, Meo!

Same exact team we would have had with Stans still here this year... only exception being he would have(likely) gotten Josh Gray at point guard. How would we then be ANY better with Stans here? Ignorance of the real situation and how badly the train was coming off the tracks is bliss, I suppose...

Missing the tournament is missing the tournament. Let me guess, you still support Ron Polk too don't you?

 

[wspanic]

post of the day. maybe the week...possibly the football season.

 

[Hanmudog]

Missing the tournament is missing the tournament. Let me guess, you still support Ron Polk too don't you?

Agree that Stansbury's presence would not have made this situation any better and probably would have made it worse but I totally disagree with this statement.

Big difference between being 4-26 and giving up hope before Christmas and being 18-12 and at least following the team into February.

 

[patdog]

Well, we won't be 4-26 with Ray and we probably wouldn't be 18-12 if we'd kept Stans either. Stans was losing control over the team more and more every year (and it's not like he ever really had that much control over the team to begin with). The situation was getting worse and it was getting worse a little faster every year. We were at the tipping point (in hindsight probably a year past it) when we finally cut him loose. At least with a new coach, there's hope of turning the ship around. That wasn't going to happen with Stans. It would have really gotten ugly if he'd stayed.

 

[Coach34]

Agree that Stansbury's presence would not have made this situation any better and probably would have made it worse but I totally disagree with this statement.

Big difference between being 4-26 and giving up hope before Christmas and being 18-12 and at least following the team into February.

Wanna bet we win more than 4 games?

 

[TheOMlawdog]

For a coach that averaged 21.5 wins over the last 6 years at MSU, Im just stunned by the number of posters that are assured that he was going to go sub .500 this year. The guy had one losing season (14-16).

You can say a lot about Stans, but as an Ole Miss fan I can tell you that he was the ultimate survivor. The minute you thought his team would be terrible he would put together a 22 win season. Just when you thought the team had no chance of going to the tourney, here comes MSU's annual SEC tourney run.

The guy was clearly not a disciplinarian, but he did win, and win a lot. I know this, if he had stayed, people wouldn't be predicting 10 win seasons. The reason I know that is because I've got 14 seasons of success that shows that is simply something that wouldn't happen.

 

[Hanmudog]

You guys need some serious help with reading comprehension. I was just talking in general terms in reference to engie's all or none statement about missing the NCAAT is missing the NCAAT. 4 wins and no NCAAT is a hell of alot worse than 18 wins and no NCAAT.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I thought we would probably be even worse if Stans was still here.

I think we will likely win about 8 maybe 9 games this year. Even with Coach K at the helm we would not win more than 10-11 games.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

Sword and possibly Thomas are quality signees. The key for Ray will be recruiting going forward.

I'm not really impressed with the upcoming signing class. The big guy looks like a contributor, but the other two look like role players and roster fillers.

I was hoping for more out of the gate.

 

[engie]

For a coach that averaged 21.5 wins over the last 6 years at MSU, Im just stunned by the number of posters that are assured that he was going to go sub .500 this year. The guy had one losing season (14-16).

You can say a lot about Stans, but as an Ole Miss fan I can tell you that he was the ultimate survivor. The minute you thought his team would be terrible he would put together a 22 win season. Just when you thought the team had no chance of going to the tourney, here comes MSU's annual SEC tourney run.

The guy was clearly not a disciplinarian, but he did win, and win a lot. I know this, if he had stayed, people wouldn't be predicting 10 win seasons. The reason I know that is because I've got 14 seasons of success that shows that is simply something that wouldn't happen.

How do you think this year would have been any different with Stans? Same personnel. MAYBE a better(true fr) point guard. Was he suddenly going to "will" us to major victory? Fact of the matter is, he played with fire for a very long time on the transfers, and with Sidney, he got burned. Saying "oh you were good a bunch of times you were supposed to be terrible" just says you weren't following our basketball team. We were never better than we were supposed to be. Never. Outside of a few SEC tournament runs that ended in first/2nd round exits in the big dance with top 16 talent.

Never in his career was the roster in the situation that it is now(and was going to be with him). Never. Hell, all he had to do was hold together our 2011 rivals #12 ranked recruiting class for us to have a chance to compete at a high level this year. Keep that class together to go with our 2012 class, and we are a middle of the pack SEC team. What's left from that class? 3* Roquez Johnson ONLY. We lost 5* #16 national recruit Rodney Hood, 4* #64 national recruit DJ Gardner, and 4* #76 national recruit Deville Smith...only even getting ONE full season out of Hood. How do you excuse that? You can't.

The ultimate survivor gets us in the tournament once or twice in the last 3 years with teams plenty talented enough to be sweet16 teams... Instead, he crumbled in spectacular fashion late in the season 3 times in a row.

Let's let Bianco miss regionals 3 years in a row, after being ranked in the top 25 at points in all 3 years, and see how the OM faithful feel about him then...

 

[engie]

You guys need some serious help with reading comprehension. I was just talking in general terms in reference to engie's all or none statement about missing the NCAAT is missing the NCAAT. 4 wins and no NCAAT is a hell of alot worse than 18 wins and no NCAAT.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I thought we would probably be even worse if Stans was still here.

I think we will likely win about 8 maybe 9 games this year. Even with Coach K at the helm we would not win more than 10-11 games.

People can laugh at me if they want, but I can look at this schedule and see us easily getting fairly close to .500, even as a bad basketball team.

The "20 win plateau" needs to go away. It's no longer an accurate benchmark of a good team. 8 teams won over 30 games last year. 43 teams won 25 or more. 108 teams won 20+ games last year. 108 out of 344... or 31.4%.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

You mean the upcoming signing class that has not yet signed or been completed?

You might want to give Ray some time to actually have players sign this season before bitching about it. Also our current commits (per 24/7):

1. PG - I.J. Ready - offers from Bama and Oregon. We need a PG badly.
2. PF - Juco - Denson - offers from Marquette, Mizzou, OK St. - not a bad offer sheet
3. SF - Juco - Daniels - offers from USM, W. Ky - not as good of offers but both USM and W. Ky have had more success recently than we were having under Stans (W. KY has made it further in the NCAA tournament in the last 5 years than Stans ever did)

Nothing in that list screams "horrible" to me. In fact, I imagine that everyone bitching about it is just still upset about their boy (who gave them access to the program, made them feel sooo special, and has done everything in his power to sabotage the program since his dismissal) not being around anymore.

I imagine we'll have a few more schollies to give out moving forward too.

 

[TheOMlawdog]

Im just not positive that Stans wouldn't have been able to hold the classes together and put together a 17-19 win type season this year. I know that isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I think that is very possible. Now with Ray, there is all this talk of doing things the right way and wins be damned. That sounds all well and good until the games start and losses start piling up. I guess Ray is going to be untouchable this year, because every win will be to his credit and every loss will be at the feet of Stans.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

For a coach that averaged 21.5 wins over the last 6 years at MSU, Im just stunned by the number of posters that are assured that he was going to go sub .500 this year. The guy had one losing season (14-16).

You can say a lot about Stans, but as an Ole Miss fan I can tell you that he was the ultimate survivor. The minute you thought his team would be terrible he would put together a 22 win season. Just when you thought the team had no chance of going to the tourney, here comes MSU's annual SEC tourney run.

The guy was clearly not a disciplinarian, but he did win, and win a lot. I know this, if he had stayed, people wouldn't be predicting 10 win seasons. The reason I know that is because I've got 14 seasons of success that shows that is simply something that wouldn't happen.

You never know what Stansbury would have brought in during the late signing period - he had some history of pulling a rabbit or two out of his hat during his career. And with his back to the wall, it would have been imperative for him to bring a contributor in. Ray has a much longer rope and really didn't have any pressure to bring in difference makers with the spring class, so you can't assume the roster would look the same.

And while I've seen it posted that Rodney Hood would not have returned, none of those posts came from anyone who would really know.

Having said that, I could see Ray parlaying the schedule into >12 wins, which would be a decent first year. As always, there are teams in the league that are beatable - only three ranked teams (UK, UF, Mizzou) and only UT and UGA got votes in the preseason polling.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

You might want to give Ray some time to actually have players sign this season before bitching about it. Also our current commits (per 24/7):

1. PG - I.J. Ready - offers from Bama and Oregon. We need a PG badly.
2. PF - Juco - Denson - offers from Marquette, Mizzou, OK St. - not a bad offer sheet
3. SF - Juco - Daniels - offers from USM, W. Ky - not as good of offers but both USM and W. Ky have had more success recently than we were having under Stans (W. KY has made it further in the NCAA tournament in the last 5 years than Stans ever did)

Nothing in that list screams "horrible" to me. In fact, I imagine that everyone bitching about it is just still upset about their boy (who gave them access to the program, made them feel sooo special, and has done everything in his power to sabotage the program since his dismissal) not being around anymore.

I imagine we'll have a few more schollies to give out moving forward too.

Can't speak for anyone else, but my opinion has nothing to do with Stansbury not being around anymore. You obviously think its a better trio than I do, which is fine - every program needs their homers. But it looks a little piecemeal to me so far.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Im just not positive that Stans wouldn't have been able to hold the classes together and put together a 17-19 win type season this year. I know that isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I think that is very possible. Now with Ray, there is all this talk of doing things the right way and wins be damned. That sounds all well and good until the games start and losses start piling up. I guess Ray is going to be untouchable this year, because every win will be to his credit and every loss will be at the feet of Stans.

You just proved the point. If he held the classes together he would have had enough talent to win more than 17 games.

 

[engie]

Im just not positive that Stans wouldn't have been able to hold the classes together and put together a 17-19 win type season this year. I know that isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I think that is very possible. Now with Ray, there is all this talk of doing things the right way and wins be damned. That sounds all well and good until the games start and losses start piling up. I guess Ray is going to be untouchable this year, because every win will be to his credit and every loss will be at the feet of Stans.

He might could have pulled a rabbit out of his hat in the late signing period, but there was no "holding the classes together." They were already gone. As I've already said, the only one that we "know" about that would likely be here that isn't is Josh Gray. He kicked Gardner off the team because he tweeted about Stans lying to him. DeVille had well known major side effects from synthetic drugs that guaranteed he wouldn't be returning. Hood has reported many times in interviews that his intent was to leave before the season was actually over and that his decision had nothing to do with Stans being let go. Letting Stans go almost kept Hood for us, it didn't lose him...

Ton of talent coming up in MS right now... I mean, Monta Ellis type talent. Going to be a recruiting war for those guys, and IF we just recruit on the level we have in the past, we will have a chance to put together an excellent team soon...

 

[mstateglfr]

Ware wasnt sucking wind during the scrimmage? Wow, thats good to hear since per Ray, he showed up at school just a shade under 3hundo.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

Can't wait. Should be a fun season.

 

[Coach34]

For a coach that averaged 21.5 wins over the last 6 years at MSU, Im just stunned by the number of posters that are assured that he was going to go sub .500 this year. The guy had one losing season (14-16).

You can say a lot about Stans, but as an Ole Miss fan I can tell you that he was the ultimate survivor. The minute you thought his team would be terrible he would put together a 22 win season. Just when you thought the team had no chance of going to the tourney, here comes MSU's annual SEC tourney run.

The guy was clearly not a disciplinarian, but he did win, and win a lot. I know this, if he had stayed, people wouldn't be predicting 10 win seasons. The reason I know that is because I've got 14 seasons of success that shows that is simply something that wouldn't happen.

Stansbury had lost all 5 starters in 2006 and went 15-15...5-11 in the SEC...and that was BEFORE he had lost total control of the program. With all the losses, there was no way he would have been any better than that this upcoming season- especially with where the program was now.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

People can laugh at me if they want, but I can look at this schedule and see us easily getting fairly close to .500, even as a bad basketball team.

The "20 win plateau" needs to go away. It's no longer an accurate benchmark of a good team. 8 teams won over 30 games last year. 43 teams won 25 or more. 108 teams won 20+ games last year. 108 out of 344... or 31.4%.

I don't think its laughable that .500 is obtainable with that schedule.

And those are interesting numbers you posted. I'm surprised that the percentage of teams with 20+ games is as low as it is.

 

[engie]

I don't think its laughable that .500 is obtainable with that schedule.

And those are interesting numbers you posted. I'm surprised that the percentage of teams with 20+ games is as low as it is.

I should quantify that number a little further, since just saying "344 teams" is kind of misleading. There are about 10 truly competitive "year in and year out" midmajors. So, in comparing just the power 6 conferences, who in general play at the "same level" that we do...

ACC - 6 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't
Big12 - 6 teams won 20+, 4 teams didn't
BigEast - 10 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't
B1G - 7 teams won 20+, 5 teams didn't
Pac12 - 7 teams won 20+, 5 teams didn't
SEC - 6 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't

So, in the power 6, 42 out of 74 teams won 20+ games... good for 56.8% of all teams in those conferences...

 

[TheOMlawdog]

Look Im happy Stans is gone just like you are. Ray may be a great hire, and any decent basketball coach can get his team to 20 wins in the SEC in year two if he knows what he is doing, and I would expect that MSU will have the same expectations for Ray.

 

[Coach34]

Look Im happy Stans is gone just like you are. Ray may be a great hire, and any decent basketball coach can get his team to 20 wins in the SEC in year two if he knows what he is doing, and I would expect that MSU will have the same expectations for Ray.

I'm not on board yet with Ray- I'm not sure Stricklin did his best work on this- BUT- he does get the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Ray inherited a mess but with some good moves could get us going within a couple of years. He gets a free pass this year with the exception being guys that play hard and are respectful. That should be an every year thing and doesnt matter what your talent level is.

Then starting in 2014 his leash will start getting shorter...2015 should be a team that should be in the hunt for an NCAA Tourney berth...we'll see what happens

 

[olblue.sixpack]

I should quantify that number a little further, since just saying "344 teams" is kind of misleading. There are about 10 truly competitive "year in and year out" midmajors. So, in comparing just the power 6 conferences, who in general play at the "same level" that we do...

ACC - 6 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't
Big12 - 6 teams won 20+, 4 teams didn't
BigEast - 10 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't
B1G - 7 teams won 20+, 5 teams didn't
Pac12 - 7 teams won 20+, 5 teams didn't
SEC - 6 teams won 20+, 6 teams didn't

So, in the power 6, 42 out of 74 teams won 20+ games... good for 56.8% of all teams in those conferences...

About 50% is what I would expect, but it didn't interest me enough to spend any time on it and I certainly didn't expect you to drill down any further. But then again, there is an agenda to advance, right?, so good work.

 

[biguglyjoe]

I will wholeheartedly cheer for the turd, and for the man that has been given the unenviable task of polishing it.

 

[maroonmania]

Im just not positive that Stans wouldn't have been able to hold the classes together and put together a 17-19 win type season this year. I know that isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I think that is very possible. Now with Ray, there is all this talk of doing things the right way and wins be damned. That sounds all well and good until the games start and losses start piling up. I guess Ray is going to be untouchable this year, because every win will be to his credit and every loss will be at the feet of Stans.

IMO if Stans was still here we would have kept Hood and added Pollard in our signing class. So that would be a positive. On the flip side we would STILL be poorly coached, have discipline problems on the team (and by that I primarily mean a lot of players with zero respect for their coaching staff) and be hanging out on the NCAA bubble and had we got in not gone past the first 2 rounds.

 

[OzarkaNSW]

Jalen Steele sucks

I know many here are bracing for the worst season(s) most of us can readily remember, but it is still starting in just over a week, and I'm getting excited about seeing something different regardless of how bad we may end up being. Here is Veazey's article regarding today's scrimmage. Quite a few interesting takes from the article:

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/msu/...gs-approach-start-of-hoops-season-with-video/

n