Bowl Team or Beating PSU

[yessir321]

There’s no story line if the other wins turn out to be a 2-10 NW team, a 3-9 Temple team, Wagner, and (hypothetical worst case scenerio) a Michigan State team that loses all its best players to the portal and loses out. In that case it’s just a fluke meaningless win occurring in a season already gone lost.

I’m not saying that will be the outcome for any of these teams (other than Wagner). That’s all TBD. But there’s no great recruiting narrative in that and it’s not a direct comparison of one PSU win vs. simply a bowl win over a 6-6 Syracuse team or something.

The narrative is that the program is improving. In that example, replace PSU with 2 other decent but not elite teams Also win that bowl game. 3 wins against middle of the road peers plus taking care of business across the board against terrible teams. That’s marked program improvement from a messaging perspective.

See I disagree, to this day people still remember 1-AA Appalation State beating Michigan, that was what? 2007? Coincidentally the years following that win App state shot up the rankings and that win alone played a major role in them going FBS in 2014..

if we beat psu and lose the others, to me that indicates we are much more competitive in our losses than years past. I absolutely believe that a 5-7 team who beats psu and has an average margin of loss of one possession or less is faaaaaar more impressive than 6 wins against whatever programs, playing in a whatever bowl game.. we’re just another average football team at that point. Meanwhile if we go into psu and beat them there this year with the team they have, that would be a recruiting piece for years to come. That would legitimately be a bigger win for the program than 2006 Louisville.. I’m sorry but this isn’t a debate.

Again I reiterate, if we’re an 8 win bowl team different story, but given the choice of 5 wins or 6 and with 5 beating psu, it’s a no brainer

 

[RUTGERS95]

great thread that shows small vs big and no vision vs big picture

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

See I disagree, to this day people still remember 1-AA Appalation State beating Michigan, that was what? 2007? Coincidentally the years following that win App state shot up the rankings and that win alone played a major role in them going FBS in 2014..

if we beat psu and lose the others, to me that indicates we are much more competitive in our losses than years past. I absolutely believe that a 5-7 team who beats psu and has an average margin of loss of one possession or less is faaaaaar more impressive than 6 wins against whatever programs, playing in a whatever bowl game.. we’re just another average football team at that point. Meanwhile if we go into psu and beat them there this year with the team they have, that would be a recruiting piece for years to come. That would legitimately be a bigger win for the program than 2006 Louisville.. I’m sorry but this isn’t a debate.

Again I reiterate, if we’re an 8 win bowl team different story, but given the choice of 5 wins or 6 and with 5 beating psu, it’s a no brainer

Ok - fair point. So I think at 6-7 I might agree with you. So I’d actually flip it to the OP. In your scenerios - would it be 6-7 or 7-6. So do we win the bowl game and end the season on a high note? For me, any combination of 7-6 (ending the season on a winning note) would trump 5-7. But maybe not 6-7.

 

[CollegeSenior]

Six months ago - “the goal is to go 6-6 and bowling. That’s why we schedule Wagner”.

Today - “6-6 and a Bowl. Meh. Just beat PSU”

 

[yessir321]

Ok - fair point. So I think at 6-7 I might agree with you. So I’d actually flip it to the OP. In your scenerios - would it be 6-7 or 7-6. So do we win the bowl game and end the season on a high note? For me, any combination of 7-6 (ending the season on a winning note) would trump 5-7. But maybe not 6-7.

I still don’t think it would come close to beating psu in state college. If we go 7-6 and win the quick lane or pinstripe bowl, we get a 30 second blurb on sports center and maybe 3 minutes on big ten network. Meanwhile if go into psu and beat them there, people will be talking about Rutgers the following week almost as much as they are talking about Colorado now….

Again 8-4 regular season is a different scenario, but beating a top 5 program on the road is a statement that will live on for decades, a quick lane bowl win people forget about 2 months later…

 

[yesrutgers01]

I still don’t think it would come close to beating psu in state college. If we go 7-6 and win the quick lane or pinstripe bowl, we get a 30 second blurb on sports center and maybe 3 minutes on big ten network. Meanwhile if go into psu and beat them there, people will be talking about Rutgers the following week almost as much as they are talking about Colorado now….

Again 8-4 regular season is a different scenario, but beating a top 5 program on the road is a statement that will live on for decades, a quick lane bowl north people forget about 2 months later…

If Greg is sitting in my living room and pounding his chest about a fluke win over a much better team but not much other success during the season- I am looking at him asking myself if this is the Coach I want for my son.

If he is sitting there and showing the progression of the program under him in the B1G to the point he has brought his team to now being a bowl team and that he expects my son to help him bring his program to the next level. - That is the man I am listening to.

My son would be choosing where he wants to play ball for the next 4-5 years. We really don't give 2 shats about a different set of kids who experienced 1 big year the previous year.

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

I still don’t think it would come close to beating psu in state college. If we go 7-6 and win the quick lane or pinstripe bowl, we get a 30 second blurb on sports center and maybe 3 minutes on big ten network. Meanwhile if go into psu and beat them there, people will be talking about Rutgers the following week almost as much as they are talking about Colorado now….

Again 8-4 regular season is a different scenario, but beating a top 5 program on the road is a statement that will live on for decades, a quick lane bowl north people forget about 2 months later…

Once again - I’ll repeat….

It depends.

I agree. Beating PSU on the road trumps a 6-6 or 7-5 season with a no name bowl in terms of staying power/ public perception

But if that occurs in a season where we finish 3-9 or 4-8 then it will just be seen as a meaningless fluke.

The App State victory of Michigan (all that time ago) has had staying power BECAUSE it showed that App State WAS good, that the high end AA teams ARE dangerous. And App state has stayed good. If the above didn’t happen (App state not being good) then their victory over Michigan would not have had any staying power. They made a statement with that win because they WERE (and still are) good. It wasn’t just some fluke.

 

[yessir321]

If Greg is sitting in my living room and pounding his chest about a fluke win over a much better team but not much other success during the season- I am looking at him asking myself if this is the Coach I want for my son.

If he is sitting there and showing the progression of the program under him in the B1G to the point he has brought his team to now being a bowl team and that he expects my son to help him bring his program to the next level. - That is the man I am listening to.

My son would be choosing where he wants to play ball for the next 4-5 years. We really don't give 2 shats about a different set of kids who experienced 1 big year the previous year.

That’s great for you, but that’s not how it works for top recruits. Those guys wanna be on ESPN, point blank. They want to be talked about and have the highlight on them. A win over psu accomplishes this and who says it would be a fluke?

 

[yessir321]

Once again - I’ll repeat….

It depends.

I agree. Beating PSU on the road trumps a 6-6 or 7-5 season with a no name bowl in terms of staying power/ public perception

But if that occurs in a season where we finish 3-9 or 4-8 then it will just be seen as a meaningless fluke.

The App State victory of Michigan (all that time ago) has had staying power BECAUSE it showed that App State WAS good, that the high end AA teams ARE dangerous. And App state has stayed good. If the above didn’t happen (App state not being good) then their victory over Michigan would not have had any staying power. They made a statement with that win because they WERE (and still are) good. It wasn’t just some fluke.

Once again I’ll repeat,

That’s not the scenario that was proposed! The scenario was 5 wins with one being over psu, or 6 wins against the D squad of our schedule going bowling…. In that scenario it’s a complete no brainer!

You keep throwing out different scenarios with less wins, more wins, different records, etc which completely changes the context of the question.

Very simply, 5 wins 1 over psu, or 6 wins against NW, Temple, VT, Mich St, Indiana, and Wagner? Swap out the Mich st and VT wins for PSU… it’s a no brainer under this scenario.

One gets us a little banner on the wall about the quick lane bowl, the other will go down in the memories of every Rutgers fan for life…. Need proof of that? Ask any RU fan who was around in 1988 what it felt like to beat psu, it’s not something that can be replicated by going to the Guarenteed Rate Bowl

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

Once again I’ll repeat,

That’s not the scenario that was proposed! The scenario was 5 wins with one being over psu, or 6 wins against the D squad of our schedule going bowling…. In that scenario it’s a complete no brainer!

You keep throwing out different scenarios with less wins, more wins, different records, etc which completely changes the context of the question.

Very simply, 5 wins 1 over psu, or 6 wins against NW, Temple, VT, Mich St, Indiana, and Wagner? Swap out the Mich st and VT wins for PSU… it’s a no brainer under this scenario.

Ne gets us a little banner on the wall about the quick lane bowl north, the other will go down in the memories of every Rutgers fan for life…. Need proof of that? Ask any RU fan who was around in 1988 what it felt like to beat psu, it’s not something that can be replicated by going to the Guarenteed Rate Bowl

Understood

The reason I threw out different scenarios is the format of the OP (or how rivals makes you post a poll?)….

The poll question, pinned at the top, was simply: bowl game or PSU win?

The scenario you mention is not explained in the original poll question but in the first comment under it. It’s easy to miss that. I did.

And what it is worth - I covered both bases in my comments

I already said: in the scenario (eg 6 or so wins low bowl; no bowl but beat PSU) - I’d take PSU hands down. Everything else aside - just to ruin their season!!! For no other reason.

But under other scenarios (which I am free to consider if I wish as this a message board intended for discussion)…. It depends

 

[Scarlet16e2]

I dont really care what scaenario was proposed by the OP.
I just would like to beat PSU, under almost any circumstances,
I understand the logic of wanting the bowl game to show program progress. I just dont care.

 

[RUTGERS95]

If Greg is sitting in my living room and pounding his chest about a fluke win over a much better team but not much other success during the season- I am looking at him asking myself if this is the Coach I want for my son.

If he is sitting there and showing the progression of the program under him in the B1G to the point he has brought his team to now being a bowl team and that he expects my son to help him bring his program to the next level. - That is the man I am listening to.

My son would be choosing where he wants to play ball for the next 4-5 years. We really don't give 2 shats about a different set of kids who experienced 1 big year the previous year.

cool story, neighbors kid, recruited right now by Greg, says to us at a bbq, 'bottom dweller, talk to me when they start beating someone'

father of kid who was recruited by RU and opted for someone else, while sitting in stands talking about this, 'RU has no long-term future until they are the first choice for kids in their own state'

I'm being nice too, some of the comments I hear are worse and from hs coaches as well.

I could on but the reality is that perception needs to change, media angle needs to change and that happens by beating the big boys, not playing in pinstripe bowl vs ECU.

 

[Local Shill]

cool story, neighbors kid, recruited right now by Greg, says to us at a bbq, 'bottom dweller, talk to me when they start beating someone'

father of kid who was recruited by RU and opted for someone else, while sitting in stands talking about this, 'RU has no long-term future until they are the first choice for kids in their own state'

I'm being nice too, some of the comments I hear are worse and from hs coaches as well.

I could on but the reality is that perception needs to change, media angle needs to change and that happens by beating the big boys, not playing in pinstripe bowl vs ECU.

Sounds like a bunch of douche bags. What high school do/did those kids go to?

 

[RUTGERS95]

There's no smugness that pisses me off more than people in New Jersrey talking that kind of bulljunk. If those kids are as good as their parents think they'll "beat someone" if they go to RU. ********.

take your emotions out of it and look at this logically and from the standpoint of a parent. This is not uncommon and a reason why the perception needs to be changed.

also, it's not bull as nothing in those examples is wrong. Also, Greg isn't as loved as many on this board want to believe. I think the first time around it was different than today.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I still don’t think it would come close to beating psu in state college. If we go 7-6 and win the quick lane or pinstripe bowl, we get a 30 second blurb on sports center and maybe 3 minutes on big ten network. Meanwhile if go into psu and beat them there, people will be talking about Rutgers the following week almost as much as they are talking about Colorado now….

Again 8-4 regular season is a different scenario, but beating a top 5 program on the road is a statement that will live on for decades, a quick lane bowl win people forget about 2 months later…

I don’t think it would be about the win itself as much as generally ending the season on a positive note. Based on where we are at, ending with a win (any win) after a season where we won more games than we lost would be indicative of undeniable program steps in the right direction. We need that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

cool story, neighbors kid, recruited right now by Greg, says to us at a bbq, 'bottom dweller, talk to me when they start beating someone'

father of kid who was recruited by RU and opted for someone else, while sitting in stands talking about this, 'RU has no long-term future until they are the first choice for kids in their own state'

I'm being nice too, some of the comments I hear are worse and from hs coaches as well.

I could on but the reality is that perception needs to change, media angle needs to change and that happens by beating the big boys, not playing in pinstripe bowl vs ECU.

It starts to change by winning more frequently in general. Not by winning one big game and otherwise disappointing the rest of the season.

I’m having trouble with the inconsistent sentiment on here. The same people who think Leipold is the greatest thing since sliced bread based on a 6-7 season at Kansas are knocking the prospect of a 7-6 season for us. Why does 6-7 symbolize clear skies ahead for them but 7-6 for us with Schiano represents gloom and doom? I don’t understand.

 

[Local Shill]

take your emotions out of it and look at this logically and from the standpoint of a parent. This is not uncommon and a reason why the perception needs to be changed.

also, it's not bull as nothing in those examples is wrong. Also, Greg isn't as loved as many on this board want to believe. I think the first time around it was different than today.

I hear ya. but it's the chicken or the egg. You can't get good players if you don't win but you can't win if you don't get some good players. It's just straight up arrogance which is the mentality of too many people around the state. I know Greg rubs some people the wrong way but this is the attitude he's up against.

 

[yesrutgers01]

That’s great for you, but that’s not how it works for top recruits. Those guys wanna be on ESPN, point blank. They want to be talked about and have the highlight on them. A win over psu accomplishes this and who says it would be a fluke?

cool story, neighbors kid, recruited right now by Greg, says to us at a bbq, 'bottom dweller, talk to me when they start beating someone'

father of kid who was recruited by RU and opted for someone else, while sitting in stands talking about this, 'RU has no long-term future until they are the first choice for kids in their own state'

I'm being nice too, some of the comments I hear are worse and from hs coaches as well.

I could on but the reality is that perception needs to change, media angle needs to change and that happens by beating the big boys, not playing in pinstripe bowl vs ECU.

Have either of you had coaches in your living room trying to convince your son to come play for them and heard all the different pitches and what works and what doesnt work?

Asking for a friend...

 

[Local Shill]

Have either of you had coaches in your living room trying to convince your son to come play for them and heard all the different pitches and what works and what doesnt work?

Asking for a friend...

How's Kevin doing these days? Long-time fans will always appreciate his contributions to the program.

 

[yessir321]

Have either of you had coaches in your living room trying to convince your son to come play for them and heard all the different pitches and what works and what doesnt work?

Asking for a friend...

Yes, I was personally recruited primarily by Jason Bosso to play Lacrosse for Rutgers.

For me the biggest thing was proximity to my mom who was having health issues and I wasn’t good enough to play for Princeton which is where I grew up.

Lacrosse is a bit different in the sense that there’s no NFL, there’s no real way to make a living as a lacrosse player unless you are one of the 10 best players in the world. If there was a league though as lucrative as the NFL, I likely would have considered coach Don Zimmermann and UMBC a whole lot more who were my other D1 offer and at the time a much better lacrosse program

 

[yesrutgers01]

How's Kevin doing these days? Long-time fans will always appreciate his contributions to the program.

Doing well, successful career, 2 y/o Daughter. It's great being a grandfather or "Pops"

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

That’s great for you, but that’s not how it works for top recruits. Those guys wanna be on ESPN, point blank. They want to be talked about and have the highlight on them. A win over psu accomplishes this and who says it would be a fluke?

You have no clue who you are responding to with this comment, do you? Because you look really foolish here.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Yes, I was personally recruited primarily by Jason Bosso to play Lacrosse for Rutgers.

For me the biggest thing was proximity to my mom who was having health issues and I wasn’t good enough to play for Princeton which is where I grew up.

Lacrosse is a bit different in the sense that there’s no NFL, there’s no real way to make a living as a lacrosse player unless you are one of the 10 best players in the world. If there was a league though as lucrative as the NFL, I likely would have considered coach Don Zimmermann and UMBC a whole lot more who were my other D1 offer and at the time a much better lacrosse program

I talk to parents about proximity all the time. It can be sobering when it is pointed out that your son could go to a program 1000's of miles away for all the hype but then, as you are watching them on TV and see them leave a game for injury and they do not come back in or even back to the field- that it will take you at least 24-72 hours to get to them and you had better hope someone elses parent will make the type to check up on them.

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

I looked at the Penn State schedule.

Nov 11 - Michigan
Nov 18 - Rutgers

You know what the media will say if a 4-6 Rutgers pulls the upset of a 10-0 PSU coming off a win over #1 or #2 (let's assume they are undefeated) Michigan? It was a letdown for PSU, trap game. (It really could be a trap game for them, BTW.) The national conversation would be: so does this reopen the door for Michigan to get back into the playoffs? We're not the toast of the town except maybe Ann Arbor or whomever else we helped in the playoff chase.

Then the following week in this scenario, we are now 5-6 and playing Maryland on Senior Day with a bowl bid on the line... and wet the bed again. Perception of the haters would remain: same old Rutgers!

Unless we are only 3-7 when we beat PSU, and follow that up with a win over Maryland to finish 5-7. That's a hard sell of a story, too, if we have nothing positive between Temple and Penn State except a win over Wagner.

 

[iReC89]

A big win over PSU vs a low level bowl ? - no question. I'm ready to make an NIL pledge to the first team that pulls it off. Just need someone to set up a Penn State upset NIL bounty, assuming that is legit.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I hear ya. but it's the chicken or the egg. You can't get good players if you don't win but you can't win if you don't get some good players. It's just straight up arrogance which is the mentality of too many people around the state. I know Greg rubs some people the wrong way but this is the attitude he's up against.

no I get it but it doesn't matter who we beat if no one cares. Beat PSU, start winning those games and being competitive in those games and perception changes. Once that perception changes, it trickles up

 

[RUTGERS95]

Have either of you had coaches in your living room trying to convince your son to come play for them and heard all the different pitches and what works and what doesnt work?

Asking for a friend...

lol

more than you or your son

even had professional but my mother was on point there

alas, that was a long time ago and you are trying to worm out of the obvious which is that RU is not a destination for top NJ athletes for obvious reasons

 

[RUTGERS95]

How's Kevin doing these days? Long-time fans will always appreciate his contributions to the program.

as they should but doesn't him an expert, nor I or anyone else

the obvious is that the culture around the state with respects to RU needs to change and that begins by redefining the perception

 

[RutgersChow]

if we are able to beat Penn State, we're a bowl team basically

This.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I still love all you guys but now I'm upping the ante; want an OSU win!

 

[Scarlet16e2]

I looked at the Penn State schedule.

Nov 11 - Michigan
Nov 18 - Rutgers

You know what the media will say if a 4-6 Rutgers pulls the upset of a 10-0 PSU coming off a win over #1 or #2 (let's assume they are undefeated) Michigan? It was a letdown for PSU, trap game. (It really could be a trap game for them, BTW.) The national conversation would be: so does this reopen the door for Michigan to get back into the playoffs? We're not the toast of the town except maybe Ann Arbor or whomever else we helped in the playoff chase.

Then the following week in this scenario, we are now 5-6 and playing Maryland on Senior Day with a bowl bid on the line... and wet the bed again. Perception of the haters would remain: same old Rutgers!

Unless we are only 3-7 when we beat PSU, and follow that up with a win over Maryland to finish 5-7. That's a hard sell of a story, too, if we have nothing positive between Temple and Penn State except a win over Wagner.

I couldnt care less what the media says.
I personally want to beat PSU more than anything else RU Football related.

 

[yesrutgers01]

As a fan- I completely understand swapping out a PSU win for a crappy bowl. Just for pure instant satisfaction - but getting to ANY bowl is so much more important to our program.

Those extra practices do matter almost as much for getting the extra work as it dos for starting the next season on a positive mindframe.

 

[iReC89]

losing to Penn State for the past 34 years has an impact on the program also. I did not go to the game but I remember the wild campus in 89.

 

[yessir321]

You have no clue who you are responding to with this comment, do you? Because you look really foolish here.

I’m guessing a former Rutgers football players parent. That’s great! What does it have to do with what I just said??

 

[yesrutgers01]

lol

more than you or your son

even had professional but my mother was on point there

alas, that was a long time ago and you are trying to worm out of the obvious which is that RU is not a destination for top NJ athletes for obvious reasons

The thread isn’t about RU being a destination. It is about one specific win vs a bowl game.

I’m guessing a former Rutgers football players parent. That’s great! What does it have to do with what I just said??

I have just been trying to share a perspective from someone that has been through it and which really holds more weight for a recruit and his family.

 

[rtabachk]

Which of the following 2 scenarios would you prefer this season:

1. Rutgers wins 6 games and goes to a bowl game. They would defeat NW, Temple, VT, Wagner, MSU and Indiana

OR

2. They go into Happy Valley and beat an undefeated Penn State team, ruining their chances at going to the College Football Playoff. However, in this scenario Rutgers only wins 5 games and does NOT go to a bowl game.

How is that a question? Bowl. We're nothing to PSU. Need to stop looking up to them until we're at least on par with them. Give me a Bowl.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I’m guessing a former Rutgers football players parent. That’s great! What does it have to do with what I just said??

you have to understand our fanbase. Many never made it out of little league so they fawn over some.
Yesrutgers01 is a great fan however, much respect to him and he's one of the good guys. believe me

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

I’m guessing a former Rutgers football players parent. That’s great! What does it have to do with what I just said??

You've been trying to tell the parent of a highly recruited, highly successful Knight that he doesn't know what would mean more in recruiting.

I'd love to see us beat Penn State again. I was there the last time it happened. Given the choice, I would rather see us in a bowl because I love Rutgers more than I hate Penn State.

 

[RUTGERS95]

You've been trying to tell the parent of a highly recruited, highly successful Knight that he doesn't know what would mean more in recruiting.

I'd love to see us beat Penn State again. I was there the last time it happened. Given the choice, I would rather see us in a bowl because I love Rutgers more than I hate Penn State.

him being the parent of a knight has zero bearing on what he thinks is the right thing for recruiting as his situation was a while ago and it's unique to him. I gave 2 examples of kids recently recruited that counter that.

Point is, no one knows but it's a good debate. One thing is for certain, if recruits are saying we don't beat anyone, that should stick out in the thick skulls around here. Your love of Rutgers should mean you want to Rutgers to succeed long term . Again, the bowl game is the one night stand no one really remembers but you hammer the big boys, that changes more than just perception.

perception is what we need to change. RU sucks and until that mantra changes, who cares if we beat east bumblefk in who'syourdaddy bowl

 

[yessir321]

You've been trying to tell the parent of a highly recruited, highly successful Knight that he doesn't know what would mean more in recruiting.

I'd love to see us beat Penn State again. I was there the last time it happened. Given the choice, I would rather see us in a bowl because I love Rutgers more than I hate Penn State.

Sorry to break this to you, but I was PERSONALLY recruited to play college athletics at Rutgers and other schools (lacrosse). I have been a lacrosse coach after the fact for years as well and have been actively involved in helping players get recruited. I’m extremely aware of the recruiting process