Cal & Stanford as B1G members

should they both be added


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mikeinsec127

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Feb 24, 2003
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rejected by the ACC last night



Wow, Cal/Stanford went from refusing to consider bringing in B12 schools to the PAC to now looking at merging with a G5 conference.
I think they end up joining the Big West to be with the rest of the UC's and go indy for football.
Anybody notice that the ACC was offering SMU a ZERO share to join?
 

krup

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Feb 5, 2003
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Wow, Cal/Stanford went from refusing to consider bringing in B12 schools to the PAC to now looking at merging with a G5 conference.
I think they end up joining the Big West to be with the rest of the UC's and go indy for football.
Anybody notice that the ACC was offering SMU a ZERO share to join?
The ACC didn’t offer anything to SMU.

SMU went to the ACC with the offer to forego their share for five years (because they have no other options) if they were let in and the ACC turned them down,
 

RUforlife

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The ACC didn’t offer anything to SMU.

SMU went to the ACC with the offer to forego their share for five years (because they have no other options) if they were let in and the ACC turned them down,
This. ^^^ SMU and UConn are also the big losers in this round of musical chairs. The Big 12 was looking at both until four legitimate P5 programs fell into their lap.
 
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Knight Shift

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The ACC didn’t offer anything to SMU.

SMU went to the ACC with the offer to forego their share for five years (because they have no other options) if they were let in and the ACC turned them down,
So, SMU went from allegedly whoring out sorority sisters for members of the football team to whoring out the football program to join a conference more than 1,000 miles away from Dallass.

"Broadcaster Norm Hitzges quoted unidentified sources as saying two sorority members initially were paid $400 a weekend to have sex with football prospects."

 
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I have youtubetv and it is fine for multiple games on youtubetv. It is nothing like cable when you are interested in games on youtubetv and ESPN+ (or other providers) at the same time.
Not what you’re looking for but an improvement.

 

MADHAT1

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Apr 1, 2003
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So, SMU went from allegedly whoring out sorority sisters for members of the football team to whoring out the football program to join a conference more than 1,000 miles away from Dallass.

"Broadcaster Norm Hitzges quoted unidentified sources as saying two sorority members initially were paid $400 a weekend to have sex with football prospects."

Are you following the NSL's lead by making an accusation saying something happened , making it look current only to have the article about it be from close to 40 years ago..
 

Knight Shift

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Are you following the NSL's lead by making an accusation saying something happened , making it look current only to have the article about it be from close to 40 years ago..

1. Reading Is Fundamental- "Allegedly" is not an accusation. Also, "went from. . . to" is a temporal relation, ut whatever.
2. The S&MU alleged transgressions have been reported and detailed by multiple sources that boosters allegedly paid sex workers to have sex with football players. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. IDK what your problem is with the LA Times as a source. It's a reputable source.
3. Have no idea WTF NSL is. But whatever.
 
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Former UNC Chancellor talking about last rounds of realignment in the ACC. FSU/Clemson wanted Louisville others wanted UConn. FSU and UVA were actually the holdouts for the GOR.

4-5 holdouts this time for the PAC schools? FSU, Clemson, UNC maybe? Or maybe smaller status schools like BC, Cuse, Pitt who don't like the extra travel?


Well looks like it was the first guess and NC State. Of course all of those school will bolt the first chance they get. NC State is
questionable in having a landing spot.
Leftovers should be looking towards a future without FSU Clemson etc but seems like those schools are also preventing them from planning for the future. Same problem existed in the PAC with USC and B12 with Texas/OU.




From the article:

The two members of the disintegrating Pac-12 need 12 of the 15 members of the ACC to support their move. Four schools stood opposed when the issue was discussed Wednesday night, sources say: Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina and North Carolina State. Lacking the requisite numbers, sources say it is unlikely that the potential expansion of the league will be put to a formal vote.

Sources described ACC members Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech and Louisville as among the most vocal in advocating for the Cardinal and Golden Bears to join the league. ACC commissioner Jim Phillips has been leading the discussion, presenting financial and scheduling scenarios to the league members.
 

Retired711

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Well looks like it was the first guess and NC State. Of course all of those school will bolt the first chance they get. NC State is
questionable in having a landing spot.
Leftovers should be looking towards a future without FSU Clemson etc but seems like those schools are also preventing them from planning for the future. Same problem existed in the PAC with USC and B12 with Texas/OU.




From the article:

The two members of the disintegrating Pac-12 need 12 of the 15 members of the ACC to support their move. Four schools stood opposed when the issue was discussed Wednesday night, sources say: Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina and North Carolina State. Lacking the requisite numbers, sources say it is unlikely that the potential expansion of the league will be put to a formal vote.

Sources described ACC members Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech and Louisville as among the most vocal in advocating for the Cardinal and Golden Bears to join the league. ACC commissioner Jim Phillips has been leading the discussion, presenting financial and scheduling scenarios to the league members.

Those four schools can pretty easily travel to the Bay Area. UNC and NC State have to go out of the Raleigh-Durham airport, which I remember as awful. Clemson and Florida State would have tough trips. I don't know, though, how important a factor that is.
 

MADHAT1

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Apr 1, 2003
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Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech and Louisville are worried about the ACC's future and hoping to continue the alliance with Notre Dame once the current GOR expires,
FSU and Clemson want to leave now and see little future staying. Adding two west coast programs will just be an added expense.
North Carolina feels it will be picked up by the B1G or SEC if the ACC folds and adding those schools won't help much, so why pay the travel expense to them.
NCState, must feel adding them is a hopeless juster , what's going to happen will happen with or without them and they will cost more than bring in.

As for me I expect when the GOR is up ,Notre Dame will remember this especially if the ACC isn't getting decent TV rights offers and feel the additions might have brought the price up.
So will ask for special favors to keep their others sports in, less games forced to play ACC teams in football or say they will find a new home for ND's other sports.
 
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You can be my partner in crime. What's another lost 10 minutes at work? Money I can't earn to put towards NIL?

"The first sign of trouble passed largely unnoticed: Whereas then-brand new Big 12 counterpart Brett Yormark brought in the big guns — WME Sports and IMG Media — to work on the league’s media strategy, Kliavkoff hired a boutique firm, Sports Media Advisors, run by a guy named Doug Perlman. It just so happens Kliavkoff and Perlman were classmates at University of Virginia law school. Within months, the Big 12 and its schools, whose current contract runs a year longer than the Pac-12’s, managed to jump the line and secure extensions with ESPN and Fox that gobbled up potential time slots and put a target — $31.7 million per school — on the Pac-12’s back."

Friends don't let friends hire them when they are in over there head.

Who needs WME when you have professor of who knows what lol. Might not even put the blame on GK's friend because sounds like they came up with about a mid 30s estimate. The presidents just decided to listen to some professor instead of that. Like I say presidents aren't business people but like the article says GK should have pushed back hard on them as commish and get them to come to grips with reality.

Also sounds like Washington was the one who decided to leave first and Oregon followed not the other way around.



From the article:

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

Given the stakes of negotiations, a source with experience negotiating media rights agreements told The Times, Kliavkoff should have been more forceful pushing back against the high counteroffer.

 
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Retired711

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Who needs WME when you have professor of who knows what lol. Might not even put the blame on GK's friend because sounds like they came up with about a mid 30s estimate. The presidents just decided to listen to some professor instead of that. Like I say presidents aren't business people but like the article says GK should have pushed back hard on them as commish and get them to come to grips with reality.

Also sounds like Washington was the one who decided to leave first and Oregon followed not the other way around.



From the article:

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

Given the stakes of negotiations, a source with experience negotiating media rights agreements told The Times, Kliavkoff should have been more forceful pushing back against the high counteroffer.


I understand that -- but hindsight is always 20/20.
 
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I understand that -- but hindsight is always 20/20.
It's not hindsight because you hire these consultants because they're experts in the field. Hire another one for a second opinion if you don't trust the first. What's the point of hiring them if you're not going to listen to them or at least be in the same universe as them.

The commish's job is to carry out the presidents orders but at the same time he's got to bring them back on the reservation when they've wondered that far off. GK didn't do that.
 
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Retired711

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It's not hindsight because you hire these consultants because they're experts in the field. Hire another one for a second opinion if you don't trust the first. What's the point of hiring them if you're not going to listen to them or at least be in the same universe as them.

The commish's job is to carry out the presidents orders but at the same time he's got to bring them back on the reservation when they've wondered that far off. GK didn't do that.
I can't count the number of times when consultants are wrong. Yes, one should put weight on what they say, and one should always be at least a little risk-averse --not take a chance on getting "two in the bush" when one has one i the hand. But that doesn't mean they're always right.
 
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RUTGERS95

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Who needs WME when you have professor of who knows what lol. Might not even put the blame on GK's friend because sounds like they came up with about a mid 30s estimate. The presidents just decided to listen to some professor instead of that. Like I say presidents aren't business people but like the article says GK should have pushed back hard on them as commish and get them to come to grips with reality.

Also sounds like Washington was the one who decided to leave first and Oregon followed not the other way around.



From the article:

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

Given the stakes of negotiations, a source with experience negotiating media rights agreements told The Times, Kliavkoff should have been more forceful pushing back against the high counteroffer.


That president and professor should be publicly shamed. Lol. Letting an academic do important work....
 

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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Who needs WME when you have professor of who knows what lol. Might not even put the blame on GK's friend because sounds like they came up with about a mid 30s estimate. The presidents just decided to listen to some professor instead of that. Like I say presidents aren't business people but like the article says GK should have pushed back hard on them as commish and get them to come to grips with reality.

Also sounds like Washington was the one who decided to leave first and Oregon followed not the other way around.



From the article:

Kliavkoff brought the schools an ESPN offer of $30 million per school annually for all of their rights. The Pac-12’s analysis said the schools would be worth somewhere in the mid-$30-million range apiece, so they could go back to ESPN with a reasonable counter in the high $30-million-range and maybe the two sides would end up around $35 million.

When the Pac-12 CEO group met to discuss the offer, one of the league presidents had other ideas. The president worked with a professor on his campus to come up with their own estimate of what the 10 schools should get based on their market value: $50 million.

“George and our media consultant were pretty clear there was some risk, but they said, ‘Nope, our numbers show we’re worth this, go ask for it,’” a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations not authorized to speak publicly about them told The Times. “... ESPN did not react very well to it.”

Given the stakes of negotiations, a source with experience negotiating media rights agreements told The Times, Kliavkoff should have been more forceful pushing back against the high counteroffer.


LA Times article paywalled.

What is WME?
 
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LA Times article paywalled.

What is WME?
Oh is it paywalled? It worked for me and I don’t have a sub. Maybe a certain number of free articles or something.

I think WME is mostly known for being a Hollywood talent agency but they’re involved in other sports and media stuff as well. It’s the firm the B12 hired to consult in the quote from the Athletic.
 
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I can't count the number of times when consultants are wrong. Yes, one should put weight on what they say, and one should always be at least a little risk-averse --not take a chance on getting "two in the bush" when one has one i the hand. But that doesn't mean they're always right.
Like I said hire another one if you don't trust the opinion of the first, just like you might do with a doctor if you don't trust a first on an important diagnosis.

It's less about being always right and more about not even being remotely in their universe of subject matter expertise. You better have a lot more facts to back up your position if you're not going to listen to them. It's also about taking that bird in the hand as you say. Frankly presidents are usually more conservative by nature, I'm surprised they didn't take the sure thing. That's partially GK's fault. He is a business person and his job is to bring them down to earth if they're out in space.

OTOH, Yormark did a good job of rounding up his presidents and saying hey we can't be fighting for every last dollar. He listened to his consultants who said get a deal done quickly. He got his presidents on board and they bumped the PAC. The B12 presidents also knew their place in the hierarchy and that's a big thing too. You have to be self aware of where you are in the food chain.
 

AdventureHasAName

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That president and professor should be publicly shamed. Lol. Letting an academic do important work....
It's Tony Altimore; it has to be. He put out that series of powerpoints a year ago on his valuations of individual athletics departments. He considers Rutgers the 19th most valuable althetics department in the country, Georgia 34th and Alabama 76th (*eye roll*). His data is fine (as far as I can tell), but his conclusions are ludicrous ...



















 
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Retired711

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Like I said hire another one if you don't trust the opinion of the first, just like you might do with a doctor if you don't trust a first on an important diagnosis.

It's less about being always right and more about not even being remotely in their universe of subject matter expertise. You better have a lot more facts to back up your position if you're not going to listen to them. It's also about taking that bird in the hand as you say. Frankly presidents are usually more conservative by nature, I'm surprised they didn't take the sure thing. That's partially GK's fault. He is a business person and his job is to bring them down to earth if they're out in space.

OTOH, Yormark did a good job of rounding up his presidents and saying hey we can't be fighting for every last dollar. He listened to his consultants who said get a deal done quickly. He got his presidents on board and they bumped the PAC. The B12 presidents also knew their place in the hierarchy and that's a big thing too. You have to be self aware of where you are in the food chain.
There's one thng we definitely agree on -- it's surprising the presidents didn't take the sure thing. And yes, the commissioner should have done a better job bringing them down to earth. TBH, this version of events is so strange that I wonder if it's a full story.
 
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There's one thng we definitely agree on -- it's surprising the presidents didn't take the sure thing. And yes, the commissioner should have done a better job bringing them down to earth. TBH, this version of events is so strange that I wonder if it's a full story.
From the former Fox Sports president and basically what I’ve said above.

 
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Knight Shift

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From the former Fox Sports president and basically what I’ve said above.


Not surprising since very few University Presidents have any real world practical business experience, and just guessing that a majority probably were not athletes in high school or college. At least for Rutgers, our President was "on" the football team at Stanford.
 
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Retired711

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There is a report that the Pac-4 are about to join the AAC. The only good news about this would be that I'd be able to see Cal games when they play Temple in Philly.
 
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Retired711

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I just looked on the Cal board. There is nothing about the AAC rumor. There is a piece by the board's chiefs about how the Big Ten ought to appreciate how wonderful it would be to have Cal and Stanford as members. It hasn't occured to them, apparently, that the Big Ten has done due diligence and so certainly knows everything they say.
 
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The Los Angeles Times has a detailed account that jibes with what you report. But note that the consultant and GK were willing to accept the inflated estimate and did nothing to push back against it. https://www.latimes.com/sports/stor...l6IICiQRls3QvU3BmOTT-yX7QkyQSzl1-WImkLqlEoRFs
Yea it jibes because I posted the same article in my first post about the behind the scenes going ons in the PAC lol. Also mentioned GK didn't push back enough.


I just looked on the Cal board. There is nothing about the AAC rumor. There is a piece by the board's chiefs about how the Big Ten ought to appreciate how wonderful it would be to have Cal and Stanford as members. It hasn't occured to them, apparently, that the Big Ten has done due diligence and so certainly knows everything they say.

Their 1 or 2 potential tickets into the B10 rely on ND IMO. Without, ND I don't think they have a shot. The next 2 tickets up to 20 are likely reserved for ACC schools. Halt at 20 and if ND ever decides to come then you can push beyond 20 with other schools.
 

RUTGERS95

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It's Tony Altimore; it has to be. He put out that series of powerpoints a year ago on his valuations of individual athletics departments. He considers Rutgers the 19th most valuable althetics department in the country, Georgia 34th and Alabama 76th (*eye roll*). His data is fine (as far as I can tell), but his conclusions are ludicrous ...



















I'll take RU where he has them! lol
 

AntiG

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Stanford, SMU, Cal all offering to join ACC without media payouts
 

Retired711

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I’ve seen that about SMU and Stanford, haven’t read that about Cal though.
If Stanford doesn't think it can get a media payout, then it wouldn't be surprised if Cal doesn't either -- Stanford sports have a far better record of success.
 
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Oh yea I’ve seen that guy but he throws a lot of stuff out there like other Twitter folk so I don’t really pay attention to him.

I meant from more mainstream CFB media. I’ve seen them mention SMU and Stanford as willing to forgo payouts. I’ve only seen references to Cal willing to take a substantially reduced payout.