CI Wrestling Thread #56

[CrimeDawg18]

Bret, Flair, Austin and The Rock

For an old school NWA mark like myself the WWE Network is finally uploading more Saturday 6:05 shows from 1987-89. I hope they go back and put up the missing ones from 85 and 86 as well.

 

[TransyCat09]

Welp. The thread's biggest Bret Hart fan thinks Shawn Michaels is overrated. We really should do a podcast or something, because we respectfully disagree on everything, plus Centre/Transy and stuff.

I'm down for a podcast. Shawn was awesome, just not the best ever.

 

[BKH34]

I'm down for a podcast. Shawn was awesome, just not the best ever.

Honestly...Stone Cold was the best ever. Not Bret, not Michaels, not Flair.

 

[TransyCat09]

It's really hard to put him over Flair, but I could easily be persuaded. In fact, I may have put him over Flair in this thread before.

Just wish we had more than 4 prime years of him. Of course, maybe the lack of descent into Hogan-like megalomania or a washed up shell like Flair is what Stone Cold so special

 

[School boy]

BKH Hogan was the best ever. Stone Cold can't come close to him and you let hate get in the way of facts.

Like HHH, The Rock IMO sucked and was overrated most of his career. Hell he even got BIG heat as a face with fans in 02. Hogan made him look bad, but in 98 he was gold. But Cena's last great year was also his best work in 07. I'll give it to a workhorse

SMH if you think Flair is anything better then Hogan.

92 Sting put WCW on the map however beer gut was loved by people who smoked weed and beat on women so he gets the love I guess.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

BKH Hogan was the best ever. Stone Cold can't come close to him and you let hate get in the way of facts.

Like HHH, The Rock IMO sucked and was overrated most of his career. Hell he even got BIG heat as a face with fans in 02. Hogan made him look bad, but in 98 he was gold. But Cena's last great year was also his best work in 07. I'll give it to a workhorse

SMH if you think Flair is anything better then Hogan.

92 Sting put WCW on the map however beer gut was loved by people who smoked weed and beat on women so he gets the love I guess.

I'm now 100% convinced you've never even watched wrestling.

 

[School boy]

Know more about wrestling then most so..

 

[MegaBlue05]

Underrated has to be Jake and Overrated has to be Nash.

Anyone think they do a Balor/Rollins double turn with Gallows/Anderson joining up with Balor since all 3 are on RAW and AJ is on Smackdown? Then you possibly have Rollins chasing the belt until Wrestlemania.

I was discussing this as a legit option with a friend just a couple hours ago. I'm a sucker for a double turn if it's done well.

 

[School boy]

82 hasn't been around long, I'm known for holding my own on here for 10 years son. They don't say he'll put his takes up with anyone for nothing.

Don't ever question my wrestling ever again man. Not cool I mark it so much the USWA is my dvr.

I WENT TO WAR WITH THIS THREAD!!!! June 24th 2010 BKH said to me you take your beat downs like a great heel. You won't find better respect on this board better then that.

Wrestling crew now then and forever. 82 I think of ya as a internet bother hood because of the sport. I'm the guy to tell Vince he should use the word belt. Not title.

 

[RMP82]

Hogan was important to the business and there is no doubt he is who made it mainstream. That said, he was a hot steaming pile of **** in the ring. I think he work was absolutely terrible. I will agree that Austin is the best ever. Flair would have that honor, but im basing this on popularity as well. When Ric was at his peak, wrestling while known world was, was still limited to the territories. Steve's flame was burning white hot when wrestling was at it's highest point.

People look at Austin's matches as Stone Cold and see him as a brawler. People fail to realize he was a brawler because that was perfect for his persona. Back when he was working Midsouth, he was a hell of a technician and that carried over to WCW when he was "Stunning Steve". He just never had the gimmick to blow him up big time when working as a technical wrestler. Aside from the style, he was great on the mic, he was great at selling, he was great at drawing cheap heat or cheap pop, he could call the match or follow and be equally great, and you never saw him blow up in the ring. As far as I'm concerned, it's Steve as the top of the mountain.

 

[herodotus6]

Hogan was Cena's daddy, if personas have a family tree. Get beat up, get beat up, get beat up, hulk up, point and say "You!", block punch, punch back, whip into ropes, big boot, leg drop, pin.

That was literally every Hogan match ever. Saw it once, you saw them all. He shouldn't scrape top ten for greatest of all time, and where he does slide into any list is solely for the rocket Vince put up his ***. If the Hogan of that era tried to break into the business today, you have to convince me why he isn't in the same spot in the company as Roidback.

Yes, it's great that because of him wrestling became mainstream, but let's be honest, dude was **** in the ring.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

I watched Superbrawl 98 last night. Why is Jericho's WCW music replaced with his WWE music even back then?

My views of HHH have definitely softened over the years thanks to his role as an executive. The CWC is one of my favorite things they've done in the last decade. I'm not as high on NXT as many are because of, IMO, too much emphasis on the women, but they did bring in some guys I loved in TNA for years.

As a performer, HHH was THE reason I quit watching WWE from 2002-2006. I became a TNA loyalist for a brief time back then. I just got tired of Monday Night HHH.






To BKH's topic:

Most underrated: Jake Roberts - Great promo. Great gimmick. BEST storyteller. Should've gotten a WWF title run

Most overrated: Hulk Hogan. What? Yes, he was a great creation that led to the wrestling boom of the 80s and his heel turn helped create the wrestling boom of the mid/late 90s. But, he was a bad wrestler and his ego and "stroke" led me to non-kayfabe hate his guts starting about mid-97.

Never liked Hogan. He was a terrible wrestler, went over and hogged the spotlight from guys that were much better than him (i.e. Macho, Flair, Bret, etc). The guy couldn't even let some of those guys have their moment without making it about him.

 

[School boy]

and that slam to the Giant means nothing. I mean anyone could do that. In fact Hogan's box office matches that were 4 plus stars meant nothing. and because he isn't small means he isn't like.

Carried Flair for years, 99 ppv in Louisville where the heel Hogan was getting chants over daddy Flair never did happen, they must have played mind games.

97 best WCW match ever against Sting was fake.

But if he was Bryan that would be good because he's to little to carry a main card without getting hurt.

If only we can get back to the Ric Flair falls on his face matches again.

 

[BKH34]

Know more about wrestling then most so..

By "most" you mean "people who have never watched wrestling before."

Forget the critical approach to this. Hulk Hogan made the wrestling business more money than any wrestler ever...except Steve Austin.

In every conceivable way, Steve Austin is better than Hulk Hogan. Even in areas where Hulk Hogan is among the best ever, Steve Austin is still better.

Brother.

 

[Lexie's Dad]

Hogan was important to the business and there is no doubt he is who made it mainstream. That said, he was a hot steaming pile of **** in the ring. I think he work was absolutely terrible. I will agree that Austin is the best ever. Flair would have that honor, but im basing this on popularity as well. When Ric was at his peak, wrestling while known world was, was still limited to the territories. Steve's flame was burning white hot when wrestling was at it's highest point.

People look at Austin's matches as Stone Cold and see him as a brawler. People fail to realize he was a brawler because that was perfect for his persona. Back when he was working Midsouth, he was a hell of a technician and that carried over to WCW when he was "Stunning Steve". He just never had the gimmick to blow him up big time when working as a technical wrestler. Aside from the style, he was great on the mic, he was great at selling, he was great at drawing cheap heat or cheap pop, he could call the match or follow and be equally great, and you never saw him blow up in the ring. As far as I'm concerned, it's Steve as the top of the mountain.

Pretty much.

Hogan - important.

Flair - great.

If I am watching matches, give me Flair.

If I am making money from it, give me Hogan.

 

[herodotus6]

hey can we make fun of some wrestler today? That's my favorite part of the thread. I see a lot of debate I don't much care for.

Ok. Let's start here. In his first three lines, he apparently expects to find Hulkamaniacs in a cave, wants us all to be aware he's never been in said cave, and somehow expects cave water to be hot. Anyone else wanna tackle what's wrong with this video? And, go.

 

[herodotus6]

And does anyone even want to attempt to explain these. Only promo ever to contain the words, "raw, pink meat.",

 

[BKH34]

I changed my mind. Randy Savage is adequately rated as one of the best wrestlers of all time.

The most underrated pro wrestler ever is Ravishing Rick Rude.

 

[Lexie's Dad]

Hoggins promos all are better than Godfather moovees. His secks tape best ever. /Bigcatfan

 

[herodotus6]

I changed my mind. Randy Savage is adequately rated as one of the best wrestlers of all time.

The most underrated pro wrestler ever is Ravishing Rick Rude.

This is why you gotta love Savage. I honestly believe had Vince pushed him instead of Hogan, he could have done what Hogan did, just better. Love his stuff with Arsenio. Dude had charisma oozing out of him.

 

[Kentucky Bandit]

 

[School boy]

They always do it. They didn't try tonight and Raw sucked for the most part. I'll give credit to Reigns and that is for making something out of nothing tonight. Turned what was a bad Raw into a ok one. The guy is underrated and I enjoy watching him.

haha BKH trying again.

 

[krazykats]

Rude was a helluva wrestler and his peak was an IC feud with Warrior.

That guy got heat and played to it as well as one can.

When I think underrated I look at guys like Big Boss Man because they put a lot into the business but usually end up just short of anything great winning wise. Still a safe play in a feud, carries his weight, and makes you believe maybe there is a way he can win it.

 

[herodotus6]

I never really watched enough of Rude to make a judgment call on him. When I think of Rude, I think if the insurance policy, and the dude in the suit for the NWO. Plus, I've watched the match against Sting where he broke his back. Not exactly a great sample size of what he really was.

Agree on Big Boss Man. He was always someone you could guarantee was going to give you a good match.

 

[BKH34]

Big Boss Man was sneaky good, I agree. Two matches that are so much better than you'd think they would be are Boss Man's undercard matches at the Royal Rumble. He wrestled Barbarian in 1991 and Bam Bam Bigelow in 1993 and tore the house down both times.

As for Rick Rude...if you want to get a good sampler of what he was all about, watch his entire WCW catalog. Had great matches with Sting, Flair, Steamboat, Boss Man, even Tom Zenk. His Iron Man match with Steamboat at Beach Blast 1992 is the best of its kind. And then for WWE, his stuff with Warrior is incredible in terms of what he was able to get out of Warrior. Probably Warrior's most consistently good opponent.

 

[Laparkafan]

The best part of RAW last night was 1-2-3 Kid beating Razor Ramon.

 

[CrimeDawg18]

They showed highlights of that match last night...
Seriously it only took WWE three weeks to get us right back to the shows before "The New Era" started.

The wedding thing with Lana, Rusev and Reigns was awful.

Did you guys see Joey Styles is gone from WWE, think he was fired, haven't heard anything on why.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

Still has nothing on this WWF wedding.

Thoughts on Dean Ambrose blaming his Mania match on "Brock Lesnar's laziness?"

 

[Laparkafan]

say what?

They showed a flashback of the 1-2-3 Kid/Razor Ramon match. Everything else was pretty much awful.

 

[MegaBlue05]

They showed highlights of that match last night...
Seriously it only took WWE three weeks to get us right back to the shows before "The New Era" started.

The wedding thing with Lana, Rusev and Reigns was awful.

Did you guys see Joey Styles is gone from WWE, think he was fired, haven't heard anything on why.

You didn't like Roman's toast?

 

[MegaBlue05]

Still has nothing on this WWF wedding.

Thoughts on Dean Ambrose blaming his Mania match on "Brock Lesnar's laziness?"

My guess is Brock didn't want to do a lot of crazy spots or take much offense from Ambrose, which is not shocking because Brock does what Brock wants.

 

[School boy]

Hope SD gets a high rating and beats Raw this week.

Well here we go lets see if they have a great show!

 

[Lexie's Dad]

WWE phoning it in because of the Olympics?

Shocking...

 

[ukfan606]

Hope SD gets a high rating and beats Raw this week.

Well here we go lets see if they have a great show!

Both shows kind of suck this week

 

[School boy]

Both did suck and you gotta wonder why. In 2 weeks the second biggest ppv of the year will happen and as LD said they sat on it this week.

 

[School boy]

WWE been phoning it in since going public, amirite???? kay::clap::fistbump:[thumb2]:victory:ray::fire:[banana]:boxing::cool2:

Stop with the jokes some of us like wrestling and will always be in hopes of them putting on a good show.

 

[Lexie's Dad]

I hate to be like everyone else, but until Vince gives up control of the product nothing is really going to change.

I haven't put effort into finding out if the shows have new/different writing staffs either.

In short, here is how you make both shows better:

Freshen up and differentiate the writing staffs, including the the ultimate authority for each show. Let it be HHH for Raw and Shane for SDL.

Next, only one "PPV" per month. Raw only one month, SD the next month, with 4 combos per year.

Over time this will allow a less rushed/stressed staff to more properly pace shows to build stories to PPVs. With the network the PPV model can't be as important as it was 5 years ago, so change the way you present the product.

Finally, understand that with DVRs and Hulu people will still watch if the show is good, even if the Olympics is on NBC and ESPN has a Monday Night Football game of the 1986 Bears v. the 1972 Dolphins v. the All-Time Patriots All-Stars in a Tom Brady's wife's panties on a pole game - so don't tank, people will watch good shows regardless.

 

[Laparkafan]

According to one of the rumor sites WWE is planning on Bayley/Sasha for WM33.

 

[allabouttheUK]

bikini mud wrestling match? I'd buy if so.

Don't think either of them have the "goods" to make that watchable. Eva Marie vs Charlotte would be a better bikini mud wraslin match.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Don't think either of them have the "goods" to make that watchable. Eva Marie vs Charlotte would be a better bikini mud wraslin match.

I'd rather watch two with medium size naturals over two with giant fakes but that's just me. Fakes, IMO, only look good in a shirt. (I've watched too much ummmm "women's nekkid rasslin" on the Internet.