Coach Mullen- Stop Half-Assing the Offense
- Thread starter Coach34
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Sumlin didn't have big receivers at Houston when he beat us with a passing spread. It could have worked with the receivers we had, but we would have had to go with 3 second drop timing routes.
I think more than the QB situation, we missed Ballard. Sure, LDP has the homerun ability, but he is not a move the chains back. Griffin definitely seems to be as does Robinson, though Robinson sometimes tries to make his own hole rather than waiting on one. I hope we see more of them in the future.
I think more than the QB situation, we missed Ballard. Sure, LDP has the homerun ability, but he is not a move the chains back. Griffin definitely seems to be as does Robinson, though Robinson sometimes tries to make his own hole rather than waiting on one. I hope we see more of them in the future.
My post from the other day
My post from two days ago.
Is it illegal for us to run non spread formations? I mean I know I've seen LSU Bama and UGA line up and pound the rock like we have in the past. There is no reason that we shouldnt run the exact same offense as UGA given our personnel
For whatever reason we always split everyone out wide and do the same damn ****. It's time we put TR under center and pound Griffin away with Perk coming in to change pace, catch some wheels,
Screens, etc It's embarrassing the lack of common sense and imagination coming out of our offense. We say we tailor the offense for the personnel but that is a bunch of ********
With the god awful receiving core we should have had a look similar to UGA or LSU. 2 WR with 2 TE. Here's a news flash the tight ends can run routes too Les you mother17er. It was clear to anyone that we needed the TE help with TR on his *** all day every day. We needed quick routes inside and great route runners outside. Watch an LSU film. With our lack of speed and ability to get open the spread especially the pass first spread this year was the LAST thing needed.
Dan better wake up quick on this if TR is going to be our QB next year. Even I its Dak we still won't have the players to run an effective spread. Give the 17ing ball to Nick and set up Morrow and RoJo on the 1 on 1 coverages outside or hit MoJo and Tubby inside. But the main thing is you have to set that up by riding Nick like a mule to set TR's laser up.
17 this was a frustrating team to watch this year
// rant over
My post from two days ago.
Is it illegal for us to run non spread formations? I mean I know I've seen LSU Bama and UGA line up and pound the rock like we have in the past. There is no reason that we shouldnt run the exact same offense as UGA given our personnel
For whatever reason we always split everyone out wide and do the same damn ****. It's time we put TR under center and pound Griffin away with Perk coming in to change pace, catch some wheels,
Screens, etc It's embarrassing the lack of common sense and imagination coming out of our offense. We say we tailor the offense for the personnel but that is a bunch of ********
With the god awful receiving core we should have had a look similar to UGA or LSU. 2 WR with 2 TE. Here's a news flash the tight ends can run routes too Les you mother17er. It was clear to anyone that we needed the TE help with TR on his *** all day every day. We needed quick routes inside and great route runners outside. Watch an LSU film. With our lack of speed and ability to get open the spread especially the pass first spread this year was the LAST thing needed.
Dan better wake up quick on this if TR is going to be our QB next year. Even I its Dak we still won't have the players to run an effective spread. Give the 17ing ball to Nick and set up Morrow and RoJo on the 1 on 1 coverages outside or hit MoJo and Tubby inside. But the main thing is you have to set that up by riding Nick like a mule to set TR's laser up.
17 this was a frustrating team to watch this year
// rant over
I would rather he stop no-assing the defense...
...defense wins football games. And MSU's defense is afraid to hit people. This is the first time in years I've seen a MSU defense try to avoid contact. Take that apprehensive mess into the bowl game & the Egg Bowl disaster will look like small potatoes.
...defense wins football games. And MSU's defense is afraid to hit people. This is the first time in years I've seen a MSU defense try to avoid contact. Take that apprehensive mess into the bowl game & the Egg Bowl disaster will look like small potatoes.
To me the answer is simple and probably unpopular. Start Dak next year. It sucks for Tyler, but it's what needs to happen.
I think Tubby and even perk could have played in the other slot and beat LB and safeties. And I also liked heavens
If we had gone true spread I think we could have made it work: Rojo/Smith/Morrow/Malcomn Johnson outside and Bump/Tubby/Heavens/Perkins/Clark/Ricco inside
I just don't think Mullen has any comfort with designing/teaching/calling a pass-first spread offense. He wants to run a run-heavy spread and then make some big 1-on-1 plays in the passing game
I just don't think Mullen has any comfort with designing/teaching/calling a pass-first spread offense. He wants to run a run-heavy spread and then make some big 1-on-1 plays in the passing game
Uhm...Bumphis?
Seriously our offensive problems go way deeper than the formation we are running out of. Where were the screen plays this year that would compliment a back like Perkins and WR's that can't get themselves open the most? Why were all of our passing plays slow to develop 5 second drops? Why did we forget about our tight ends so often?
ETA: WHy didn't we run more 4-wide draws with Perk since we were so comitted to him. Like the ones A&M torched us with all game?
Seriously our offensive problems go way deeper than the formation we are running out of. Where were the screen plays this year that would compliment a back like Perkins and WR's that can't get themselves open the most? Why were all of our passing plays slow to develop 5 second drops? Why did we forget about our tight ends so often?
ETA: WHy didn't we run more 4-wide draws with Perk since we were so comitted to him. Like the ones A&M torched us with all game?
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The glaring problem to me wasn't necessarily the lack of I-formation. Granted, that is a big reason, however we kept using Perkins (5'9" 190 pounds) to run up the gut instead of our power backs (Griffin and Robinson).
Mullen and Les would put Griffin or Robinson in for an up the middle run play...we'd gain 9 yards...and then we wouldn't see either one of them the rest of the game. What the 17? Is there something I'm missing here? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this scenario played out in the egg bowl as well.
Mullen and Les would put Griffin or Robinson in for an up the middle run play...we'd gain 9 yards...and then we wouldn't see either one of them the rest of the game. What the 17? Is there something I'm missing here? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this scenario played out in the egg bowl as well.
I understand that it sounds ridiculous, but I believe that Dan is a better coach with a mobile QB.
Exactly, which is why once Tyler is done...
we should be done with pure pocket passing QBs. Another reason I thought it was beyond stupid to sign the GA QB last year and I'm VERY glad he left. Sandberg really is the perfect Mullen QB and if he comes to MSU will be our best shot to jump a level in the SEC if we have enough defense to go with him.
I wish we would have run more passing plays like we did against LSU
those 3 step drop and short route plays looked really good. Russell is automatic 15 yards in for the most part. We just didsnt see alot of that against Ole MIss -which we threw more long developing plays down feild
those 3 step drop and short route plays looked really good. Russell is automatic 15 yards in for the most part. We just didsnt see alot of that against Ole MIss -which we threw more long developing plays down feild
He just completed the best passing stats for a QB.
Offensively, we were actually better with Relf at QB in 2010. Averaged more yards per game, just as many points, and a much better 3rd down conversion rate- and against a better schedule.
That's not saying much.
We need a dual threat QB to be our best. I'm a fan of TR's, but his style does not fit the culture of MSU football. If we are going to continue to recruit Mississippi kids, then we better damn sure play the type of football they are used to playing...smash mouth, 3 yards and a cloud of dust type football. This year it looked like we were putting the square peg in the circle hole. Mississippi State will never have an "air raid" type offense. NEVER. If we can't line up and punch people in the mouth, like we did with Ralph, we will always struggle offensively.
We need a dual threat QB to be our best. I'm a fan of TR's, but his style does not fit the culture of MSU football. If we are going to continue to recruit Mississippi kids, then we better damn sure play the type of football they are used to playing...smash mouth, 3 yards and a cloud of dust type football. This year it looked like we were putting the square peg in the circle hole. Mississippi State will never have an "air raid" type offense. NEVER. If we can't line up and punch people in the mouth, like we did with Ralph, we will always struggle offensively.
I would like to give Mullen more credit than Addazio and would hope that he wouldn't put Brantley through what Addazio did.
Once again
That can be attributed to a much better offensive line and a RB that is starting for the Colts now. Especially the 3rd down conversion rate.
That can be attributed to a much better offensive line and a RB that is starting for the Colts now. Especially the 3rd down conversion rate.
For those that are slow or are new here
This marks the start of 34's lobby to have Dak named the starter for '13. We will be hearing about this through the end of next season.
34 knows that there is no way in hell that Mullen is going to switch to a pro-set offense, which leaves only one alternative.
This marks the start of 34's lobby to have Dak named the starter for '13. We will be hearing about this through the end of next season.
34 knows that there is no way in hell that Mullen is going to switch to a pro-set offense, which leaves only one alternative.
Our OL this season allowed fewer sacks on over 100 more passes. It wasnt the OL. And our RB's are very good.
It was our style of offense. The zone stretch **** just doesnt cut it. We had nothing going forward with some push like we did in 2010 or like we would in the I
Something we agree on. How is A&M able to run quick hitting dives and draws out of their spread while we either stretch or counter only?
I agree, but I am not holding my breath. There were countless baffling personnel decisions this year. Its inexplicable to me why when Griffin started to come around that the touch split did not move to 50/50 or even 60/40 in favor of Perk, something more than 2. Instead, Griffin would get 2 carries, pick up 15 or 16+ difficult yards and then would never sniff the field again. See Bama, aTm, Arkansas and Ole Miss as Exhibits A, B, C and D.
Somewhat OT, I am also some of our mind boggling personnel decisions could result in some unneeded transfers or be a deterent to signing some kids; you know, when you are starting and playing JUCO walkons over 5 star HS kids that actually demonstrate some level of competence at their given position.
They have the leading rusher in the SEC playing QB and he must be accounted for on every play.
Stop with the ******** and read the article. Nobody is saying we have to switch to pro-sets all the time. But for Russell to be really effective, he needs that at least 25% of the time to help with the run game since he is a non-factor.
And why lobby for that? It would be pointless and a complete waste of time
I was hoping you would say that
Because those same runs worked for them (at least against us) when he was at Houston too.
Mid post threadjack - What is Sumlin's oversized sweatshirt wearing OC's name anyway? He was at Houston with him and I can see him becoming a commodity soon.
Because those same runs worked for them (at least against us) when he was at Houston too.
Mid post threadjack - What is Sumlin's oversized sweatshirt wearing OC's name anyway? He was at Houston with him and I can see him becoming a commodity soon.
The reason Sumlin's offense worked well is because it's a "run & shoot" offense which is what we NEED for Tyler to be successful here. Run & shoot employs many combination routes that are VERY high percentage routes. Speed is the key in that type of scheme. Sticks, drags, outs, curls, stops are all used in this scheme it basically masks the OLs ability to hold blocks for lengthy periods of time. Most throws are 1-2 step reads and the ball is GONE! Troy ran it against us mainly to combat the cover 3 we were in. Tyler is absolutely taylor made for that setup.
Coach I agree with you on Mullen having to choose where we are headed offensively. But remember, Coach Mullen has yet to coach a QB he has recruited as a starter. Tyler basically fell in his lap, he couldn't turn down a kid like Tyler. It's like getting a bad *** laser disk player when you're already set up for blueray.
Coach I agree with you on Mullen having to choose where we are headed offensively. But remember, Coach Mullen has yet to coach a QB he has recruited as a starter. Tyler basically fell in his lap, he couldn't turn down a kid like Tyler. It's like getting a bad *** laser disk player when you're already set up for blueray.
redbird4state - You aren't alone is your thinking. I love Tyler and hope he does geat things. He could win a heisman playing in a offense like Bama's.
But our offense works better with a good runner at QB.
But our offense works better with a good runner at QB.
From a previous post...
"Of those 31 QB's who threw as many or more TD's as Tyler, exactly 9 had as many or fewer interceptions. Exactly 7 were sacked as many or fewer times. Tyler is great because he takes care of the ball and he doesn't take sacks. Something Relf didn't do.
You can try to make Russell sound like an average QB, but he's not. He's definitely the best QB in modern MSU history. But he also one of the best, if not THE best in the conference. Our complete lack of a deep threat and shoddy offensive line underscore that point. Not to mention he gets hit a ton and he's a tough SOB as well.
Your hard on for Dak and all things Louisianan has blinded you champ. Anyone who's seen us play knows Tyler is legit.
It's Mullen's problem if he can't figure out how to use a great QB. A good coach would tailor his offense to suit his players' strengths. A mediocre coach just runs his system even if he doesn't have the horses to do it well (see: Joe Lee Dunn after Smoot & Bean went pro)."
As for your 2010 comparison. We turned the ball over less with Tyler than in 2010. We took fewer sacks than in 2010. We also had an NFL running back and a MUCH better defense getting our offense the ball back in 2010.
The reason we don't have any legit WRs now is because we ran that idiotic Relf-bone for two years and convinced every recruit we were never going to pass it. Big play making receivers don't want to come and play blocker for 85% of the snaps. If we'd played our best QB from the start instead of being slave to a system, who knows, we might have signed Moncrief or someone of his caliber.
Tenure's got you pegged champ. If we have to choose between Russell or the spread, it's Russell every time.
He's our unquestioned leader, a potential NFL talent, and a Senior.
"Of those 31 QB's who threw as many or more TD's as Tyler, exactly 9 had as many or fewer interceptions. Exactly 7 were sacked as many or fewer times. Tyler is great because he takes care of the ball and he doesn't take sacks. Something Relf didn't do.
You can try to make Russell sound like an average QB, but he's not. He's definitely the best QB in modern MSU history. But he also one of the best, if not THE best in the conference. Our complete lack of a deep threat and shoddy offensive line underscore that point. Not to mention he gets hit a ton and he's a tough SOB as well.
Your hard on for Dak and all things Louisianan has blinded you champ. Anyone who's seen us play knows Tyler is legit.
It's Mullen's problem if he can't figure out how to use a great QB. A good coach would tailor his offense to suit his players' strengths. A mediocre coach just runs his system even if he doesn't have the horses to do it well (see: Joe Lee Dunn after Smoot & Bean went pro)."
As for your 2010 comparison. We turned the ball over less with Tyler than in 2010. We took fewer sacks than in 2010. We also had an NFL running back and a MUCH better defense getting our offense the ball back in 2010.
The reason we don't have any legit WRs now is because we ran that idiotic Relf-bone for two years and convinced every recruit we were never going to pass it. Big play making receivers don't want to come and play blocker for 85% of the snaps. If we'd played our best QB from the start instead of being slave to a system, who knows, we might have signed Moncrief or someone of his caliber.
Tenure's got you pegged champ. If we have to choose between Russell or the spread, it's Russell every time.
He's our unquestioned leader, a potential NFL talent, and a Senior.
Why not run UGA's offense? They have a pocket passer. They have multiple talented running backs. They run the ball a ton Why can't we run that offense? Is it over our coaches' heads? Surely not. The spread only makes sense if it's what gives your team the best chance for success. If it doesn't, then there's no reason to run it other than stubborn pride.
Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, LSU & Bama line up and punch people in the mouth. None of them have a dual-threat at QB.
We are talking about how to give the players we have the best chance to win. We have a Senior QB who's the best in school history at passing the ball. We have a bevy of talented young running backs. Our wide receivers are mediocre. Our tight ends are pretty good. Why wouldn't we run a more pro-style offense? Certainly it doesn't improve our chances to bench our best offensive player just to preserve a scheme. A scheme is only good if it gives us the best chance to win.
We are talking about how to give the players we have the best chance to win. We have a Senior QB who's the best in school history at passing the ball. We have a bevy of talented young running backs. Our wide receivers are mediocre. Our tight ends are pretty good. Why wouldn't we run a more pro-style offense? Certainly it doesn't improve our chances to bench our best offensive player just to preserve a scheme. A scheme is only good if it gives us the best chance to win.
you're making 34's point for him now
UGA runs a pro-set though they will sometimes incorporate some spread philosophies...all teams do now it seems.
The problem with that is we don't have the blocking TE's nor the fullbacks to really run it. (What happened to Shump?)
Furthermore, that offense relies on playmakers on the outsides to stretch the defense, otherwise they will just load the box.
I think that we all have a bad taste in our mouths that Freeze was right and we do run a finesse offense to go along with our finesse soft zone defense. As much as I like Perk, I think he is just as much the reason for that as Russell.
UGA runs a pro-set though they will sometimes incorporate some spread philosophies...all teams do now it seems.
The problem with that is we don't have the blocking TE's nor the fullbacks to really run it. (What happened to Shump?)
Furthermore, that offense relies on playmakers on the outsides to stretch the defense, otherwise they will just load the box.
I think that we all have a bad taste in our mouths that Freeze was right and we do run a finesse offense to go along with our finesse soft zone defense. As much as I like Perk, I think he is just as much the reason for that as Russell.