Coach Mullen- Stop Half-Assing the Offense
- Thread starter Coach34
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Why is our backup QB always better than our starter? It sure seems that way. Last year it was Russell over Relf. Now it's Dak over Russell. I wonder who will be better than Dak?
Personally, I'm happy with Russell but realize that Dak is very good and probably should be used a little more ... but not be our starter.
Personally, I'm happy with Russell but realize that Dak is very good and probably should be used a little more ... but not be our starter.
It's probably that way most everywhere
Remember Spurlock is better than Eli? Yeah- maybe at returning kicks.
Remember Spurlock is better than Eli? Yeah- maybe at returning kicks.
Has anyone ever stopped to think
that maybe it's not so much that Dan can't run the offense as well with Tyler as much as it is Les can't run the offense with Tyler?
My point is, maybe the solution is to keep Dan since we know/assume he can run an offense with a mobile QB. So, why not hire either a pro-style guy or a pass first spread guy for when we have a drop back guy to compliment Dan?
I don't really know what to think- last year with Relf the play calling was also pretty bad. And we finished about the same nationally in total offense as we did this year. Could it have been because of crappy o-line play? Quite possibly. That doesn't explain the questionable play calling at times though that year.
that maybe it's not so much that Dan can't run the offense as well with Tyler as much as it is Les can't run the offense with Tyler?
My point is, maybe the solution is to keep Dan since we know/assume he can run an offense with a mobile QB. So, why not hire either a pro-style guy or a pass first spread guy for when we have a drop back guy to compliment Dan?
I don't really know what to think- last year with Relf the play calling was also pretty bad. And we finished about the same nationally in total offense as we did this year. Could it have been because of crappy o-line play? Quite possibly. That doesn't explain the questionable play calling at times though that year.
Houston ran a passing spread and had the weapons at WR to make it work. We didnt. But let's say we did, that's the whole point of my article- adapt the offense to help Tyler be successful. LSU, Georgia, Alabama, UPig- all have pro-style QB's....and they all get under Center some in addition to their shotgun packages.
A&M has 4 and 5-star talent all over their offense. We don't. If they ran the Notre Dame Box- they would be successful.
Who is saying Dak is better than Tyler?
I'm pointing out problems in our offense. Relf was better in 2010 at picking up 3rd downs than Russell by almost 10%- averaged more ypg...scored as many points...Tyler set records- and still the offense was no better than it was under Relf-let that soak in
aGAIN MORON:
I'm fine with Russell being the QB. I'm just pointing out that with all the records we set- the offense was no better than it was under Relf. And alot worse in some areas- a 9% difference in 3rd down conversions is huge- and something that has to be addressed. We have to run the ball better- I offered up an idea on how to do that.
Get off Tyler Russell's dick and let's address the problems
I'm fine with Russell being the QB. I'm just pointing out that with all the records we set- the offense was no better than it was under Relf. And alot worse in some areas- a 9% difference in 3rd down conversions is huge- and something that has to be addressed. We have to run the ball better- I offered up an idea on how to do that.
Get off Tyler Russell's dick and let's address the problems
2 things...2 of those teams suck. Arkansas and UT didn't punch anyone in the mouth. The rest of them were able to establish some form of running game. We never scared any of the good teams with our running game. I don't care where the yards come from, we just need yardage. Having a dual threat QB just gives you another option.
We can't count on our passing game to open up the running game. We HAVE to have the running game open up our passing game.
We can't count on our passing game to open up the running game. We HAVE to have the running game open up our passing game.
I wasn't addressing what you said so much as it seems that every year we ... meaning many fans ... always want to put in the backup. Sort of a "grass is always greener" thing. I agree that he could probably be used more often even with Tyler being the starter and star. Dan did the same thing, in my mind in 2011, when Relf was either hurt or beat down mentally to the point where he couldn't perform, and still would not put Russell in. Jackie did the same thing with Donte Walker when he was so grossly overweight he could no longer run ... but he was a senior so he stayed in.
Cliff Kingsbury, voted top 5 assistant this year and the guy I've been hyping for HC if Mullen ever left.
Let Russell start all you want to. But Dak really deserved to play more series, if nothing else to keep our O-Line out of extensive pass protection. Defenses knew that Russell wasn't going to run the spread option. By the way, what happened to the Relf-Coast Offense in Oxford?
So, we didn't do a good job of keeping the defense honest in their game planning and our O-Line moving forward.
The problem is a coaching staff who won't tailor their offense to their personnel.
The problem is a coaching staff who uses a scat back on power runs and leaves our power back (Griffin) on the bench while averaging 7.0 yards a carry.
ETA: The problem is a coaching staff that keeps calling edge runs against a 17ing 3-4 defense. That's just dumb.
The problem is a coaching staff who never calls screens and rarely uses our scat back as a receiving threat.
The problem is a coaching staff that hasn't recruited a single legitimate WR to date to complement the best passing QB in our history.
The problem is a coaching staff that has progressively allowed our defense to get worse, especially against the run.
The problem is a coaching staff who APPARENTLY hasn't been able to replace the talent that 17ing Croom (the worst 17ing coach in my lifetime) left us.
Also, while we might have scored just barely more than the 2010 team, we scored 5 more points a game than the 2011 team. Either way, we scored more. And when we were in a shoot-out, I had faith we could put points on the board (Tennessee, Troy) because we actually had a passing attack. Not to mention, the 2010 team scored 1 point less than 2012 and that includes a 52 point out burst against one of the worst defenses in the country in the bowl game.
I don't think we should fire Mullen. Those guys are idiots or simply blowing off steam post-Egg Bowl. I do think he's got to do some serious introspection and fix some MAJOR problems if we want to go bowling four straight times. 5-7 and 2 straight Egg Bowl losses are staring us in the face right now. Now is when we find out if we have ourselves a coach.
The problem is a coaching staff who uses a scat back on power runs and leaves our power back (Griffin) on the bench while averaging 7.0 yards a carry.
ETA: The problem is a coaching staff that keeps calling edge runs against a 17ing 3-4 defense. That's just dumb.
The problem is a coaching staff who never calls screens and rarely uses our scat back as a receiving threat.
The problem is a coaching staff that hasn't recruited a single legitimate WR to date to complement the best passing QB in our history.
The problem is a coaching staff that has progressively allowed our defense to get worse, especially against the run.
The problem is a coaching staff who APPARENTLY hasn't been able to replace the talent that 17ing Croom (the worst 17ing coach in my lifetime) left us.
Also, while we might have scored just barely more than the 2010 team, we scored 5 more points a game than the 2011 team. Either way, we scored more. And when we were in a shoot-out, I had faith we could put points on the board (Tennessee, Troy) because we actually had a passing attack. Not to mention, the 2010 team scored 1 point less than 2012 and that includes a 52 point out burst against one of the worst defenses in the country in the bowl game.
I don't think we should fire Mullen. Those guys are idiots or simply blowing off steam post-Egg Bowl. I do think he's got to do some serious introspection and fix some MAJOR problems if we want to go bowling four straight times. 5-7 and 2 straight Egg Bowl losses are staring us in the face right now. Now is when we find out if we have ourselves a coach.
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Tennessee was 2nd in total offense in the conference, Arkansas 6th. Both better than us (8th). Also, Tennessee averaged 20 more rushing yards per game than we did. My point was that you don't have to have a dual threat QB to move the chains and score points in this league.
Conveniently ignoring the entire 2011 season.
And the absence of Derek Sherrod in 2011 and 2012.
And the absence of Ballard in 2012.
And the absence of a defense in 2012.
The real problem is we aren't using our running backs correctly. Griffin should start. Perkins should be 3rd down, change of pace, receiving threat back. Look at how New Orleans uses Sproles. That's Perk's role. We need to run more screens for him. We need to use him against backers in the passing game. Griffin should be our Ballard. He averaged 7 yards a carry this year. Let THAT sink in. You can also use tempo to control the defensive personnel. There are a lot of ways we could improve the offense with the players we have right now. Not continually trying to get the edge would be one way. Getting creative passing out of the backfield would be another. Using Malcolm Johnson more in the seams.
Pretty sure he's been full-assing the offense for several games this season.
Sometimes I felt like he was rolling dice to determine the play to run.
Sometimes I felt like he was rolling dice to determine the play to run.
on the draw - that could've helped us win the Ole Miss game. They were getting pressure with 4 or 5 guys all night (sometimes 3) and it was mostly from the outside. If we had run about 4 draws in a row at one point, we probably would've gained 20-40 yards and they would've had to commit more people to stopping the run. Instead, we only ran it on 3rd and forever a few times. Screens are ok, but one thing OM has is a lot of edge speed...draws would've worked perfectly.
100% agreed. I get the lovefest for Tyler. I think he is great. But molding our entire offense around an AVERAGE quarterback is a little much. I know it's hard for State fans to realize that TR is average, but he is. To MSU standards, he is Colt Brennen, but in the grand scheme of things, he's average.
MSU is better with a prime Relf than a prime Russell.
MSU is better with a prime Relf than a prime Russell.
So how does putting Tyler under center play to our strengths when we have receiving tight ends and no fullback to speak of?
This is why Mullen has taken us as far as we will go under him. He is just not that great of a coach.
Get ready for a 6-6 season next year.
Hell yeah, I've been waiting for the Kingsbury hype to start.
He's green, but the guy has been around geniuses his college and coaching career. He calls all the plays for Sumlin also, so it's not like he's just a glorified QB coach either. Somebody is going to have to gamble on him sooner than later because he won't remain an OC for long.
Awesome fact: His coaching staff on his 02' TTech team included Mike Leach, Dana Holgerson, Art Briles, and Sonny Dykes. Incredible. These guys all crap touchdowns.
He's green, but the guy has been around geniuses his college and coaching career. He calls all the plays for Sumlin also, so it's not like he's just a glorified QB coach either. Somebody is going to have to gamble on him sooner than later because he won't remain an OC for long.
Awesome fact: His coaching staff on his 02' TTech team included Mike Leach, Dana Holgerson, Art Briles, and Sonny Dykes. Incredible. These guys all crap touchdowns.
You can put an offensive lineman at TE and put Johnson or Brandon Hill on the weakside of the formation at tackle- and they are still eligible. Make a FB out of one of our LB's- we have more LB's than we can possibly play right now. We're only talking 15-18 plays per game out of the I-Pro set, use your imagination this Spring and get it done
Those TE's can block better than no TE at all. We don't have the WR to run a good passing spread. You can develop a FB, thats a walk-on position. We have the RB personnel to pound the ball to set up the pass. Watch the LSU, UGA offense
I agree. The whole coaching staff needs to re-evaluate its philosophies in the offseason. Based on coaching staff's unwillingness to make needed changes throughout the course of the year, I have almost no confidence any changes will be made in the offseason.
Now THIS is what I'm talking about! Let's get 17ing creative. I've seen teams use those unbalanced lines to great effect (in college and the pros). We can be creative without being crazy (running a reverse pass for Dylan Favre against Bama).
You don't HAVE to have a running QB to create a numbers advantage. It helps for sure, but it's not absolutely necessary.
More screens (this cannot be emphasized enough). There are some aggressive 17ing defenses that love to blitz in our conference. We ought to be working with our lineman and backs all spring on screen plays.
Do you think we could see Tubby in the backfield at all next season? Did you see what WVU did when they moved Austin to tailback against OU? Reminded me of how Mullen used Harvin at UF.
Correct me if I'm wrong.....
Dammit, wrong place. Apparently "Reply to Thread" places the reply after the last post, not after the original post.
Dammit, wrong place. Apparently "Reply to Thread" places the reply after the last post, not after the original post.
Correct me if I'm wrong.....
But isn't the Pistol essentially just supposed to be the I, but without the QB under center and using an H-back instead of the traditional blocking FB? That's my understanding from the reading and research I've done. We don't necessarily have to go to pro sets to have an effective running game. And for those knocking our FBs, I think Hemphill did a very good job this season. He just didn't play much. For whoever asked about Shump, write him off. He's a medical casualty. Sucks for us, because he was a beast coming out of HS.
I think the biggest issue this season was misuse of personnel, on both sides of the ball. As others have pointed out, how many times the last month did we see Griffin come in, get 1 carry for 8 yards, then not touch the field aGAIN until the late 4th quarter? I love Perk. He was a beast for us. But he isn't a physical, between the tackles guy. That job should go to Griffin & JR. They consistently get YAC and push the pile. Perk needs to be used on runs to the edge and in the passing game. He'd be great getting some snaps in the slot. And I've gone way past beating the dead horse about our WRs & TEs, particularly Malcolm, RoJo, and Tubby. Those 3 guys should've been touching it early and often.
Also, I want to claim credit as one of the first to say we've been trying to run a finesse offense with TR. That's not his fault. It's what fits his skill set. But to be successful at State, you have to be physical. We need to see Dak at least 25% of the time. Let our big, nasty OL run block and lean on opposing defenses for 4 quarters. Put in the big backs and play smashmouth. That's how you win at State. MS kids love to be physical, so let them. Otherwise, you're going to get the ****** results we got this season.
But isn't the Pistol essentially just supposed to be the I, but without the QB under center and using an H-back instead of the traditional blocking FB? That's my understanding from the reading and research I've done. We don't necessarily have to go to pro sets to have an effective running game. And for those knocking our FBs, I think Hemphill did a very good job this season. He just didn't play much. For whoever asked about Shump, write him off. He's a medical casualty. Sucks for us, because he was a beast coming out of HS.
I think the biggest issue this season was misuse of personnel, on both sides of the ball. As others have pointed out, how many times the last month did we see Griffin come in, get 1 carry for 8 yards, then not touch the field aGAIN until the late 4th quarter? I love Perk. He was a beast for us. But he isn't a physical, between the tackles guy. That job should go to Griffin & JR. They consistently get YAC and push the pile. Perk needs to be used on runs to the edge and in the passing game. He'd be great getting some snaps in the slot. And I've gone way past beating the dead horse about our WRs & TEs, particularly Malcolm, RoJo, and Tubby. Those 3 guys should've been touching it early and often.
Also, I want to claim credit as one of the first to say we've been trying to run a finesse offense with TR. That's not his fault. It's what fits his skill set. But to be successful at State, you have to be physical. We need to see Dak at least 25% of the time. Let our big, nasty OL run block and lean on opposing defenses for 4 quarters. Put in the big backs and play smashmouth. That's how you win at State. MS kids love to be physical, so let them. Otherwise, you're going to get the ****** results we got this season.
Jimmy Graham is the best TE in the NFL and can't block worth a ****, but if you watch the formations they run, he lines up on the strong side, somehow tricks the DE or LB that he's blocking, makes him commit, and sheds the block for a 10 yard gain in the middle of the field. Johnson or Hill could do it, but it's going to require a lot of coaching this summer... And we have one of all of football's greatest TE coaches on our payroll.
If Mullen ignores that and simply lines them up at receiver next year I'm just going to lose it.
If Mullen ignores that and simply lines them up at receiver next year I'm just going to lose it.
Most of the time, I saw us running the pistol without an H-back, our TE was on or just off the line. And yes, it does allow the tailback to already be going downhill like in the I or a singleback set, but he is an additional 2-3 feet behind where he would be in those sets.
That's what I noticed, too.....
Our H-back/TE was consistently lined up as a wingback just off the line of scrimmage when we were in the Pistol. If we want to do that, fine, but why not make it a heavier package by subtracting a WR and putting in Hemphill or another FB? It would give the formation some extra thump.
But like I said in my first post, I think the real issue was questionable usage of personnel. Regardless of formations, Griffin and Robinson need to be getting the bulk of the carries. They're just more physical backs than Perk.
Our H-back/TE was consistently lined up as a wingback just off the line of scrimmage when we were in the Pistol. If we want to do that, fine, but why not make it a heavier package by subtracting a WR and putting in Hemphill or another FB? It would give the formation some extra thump.
But like I said in my first post, I think the real issue was questionable usage of personnel. Regardless of formations, Griffin and Robinson need to be getting the bulk of the carries. They're just more physical backs than Perk.
yes it is somewhat similar- but with 2 distinct differences- 1) Pro set allows the OL guys to stick their hand in the dirt and come off the ball harder to get some extra push. You can't be quite as physical when they begin in the crouch position. 2) In the pistol, the FB is always off to the side, instead of being able to line-up behind the QB with his hand in the ground also. This one is not as big of a deal- but it does matter some in playcalling and tendencies that you give off. To run the lead or power, the FB always has to motion back inside to get his correct blocking angle, and that is a dead giveaway most times.
WE both agree on the need to be more physical. And I think the best way to do it is to stick our hand in the ground 15-18 plays a game offensively as long as Tyler is playing QB- and also with guys like Griffin and Robinson at TB
WE both agree on the need to be more physical. And I think the best way to do it is to stick our hand in the ground 15-18 plays a game offensively as long as Tyler is playing QB- and also with guys like Griffin and Robinson at TB
This is what I have been preaching all year. Perkins is a really good player, but running him between the tackles against SEC teams is NEVER going to be successful long term. Griffin is a big physical SEC style RB, and we need to use that. Put Perkins in on obvious passing situations and occasionally in other sets to confuse the defense, but Griffin needs to be our feature back with his primary backup being Robinson. If Kailo Moore makes it to campus, he should step right in to that pass catching RB role when Perkins graduates.
As for the team as a whole...In my opinion, we will have the O-Line experience and RB depth to run a very good ground game and play-action pass game next year with Tyler at the helm. But if you don't play any defense (which we do not these days), you cannot play an Alabama style of offense because you will be playing from behind in most games. Tyler would be perfect in an offense like Bama's where play action is used in nearly every passing play, but when your defense gives up 35 points a game, nobody's biting on a 17ing play fake. Get Ellis Johnson back, or somebody that knows how to defend SEC teams, and our offense can be great next year and in Dak's years. Bottom line, you better have a great defense or you're going nowhere. Because no matter how good your offense is, you aren't scoring on a majority of your possessions against the good teams in this league. It starts with defense and running the football unless you are going the gimmicky, try to outscore everybody, route, but you will still need defense to beat the Big Boys. We seem to still have no identity on offense, with no consistency, and our defense is trending down...if nothing changes defensively, we will slide back down to the cellar.
Good explanation....
That definitely makes sense. And we've got some OL guys that should be physical beasts - Jackson, Day, and Malone all immediately come to mind. If Gabe could stick his hand in the ground to completely leverage his strength, he'd maul some poor DL.
That definitely makes sense. And we've got some OL guys that should be physical beasts - Jackson, Day, and Malone all immediately come to mind. If Gabe could stick his hand in the ground to completely leverage his strength, he'd maul some poor DL.
Heard Matt Wyatt on H2H yesterday answer a question from Cross. "Do you think this coaching staff has done all they can to suit Tyler's strengths?" He said "yes" and quite honestly I could not disagree MORE. I'm not (or neither is C34) saying Prescott is better than Tyler. What we are saying is IF you're going to commit to Tyler....then COMMIT! Not some half breed assets option read philosophy that you're trying to sell the fanbase on by saying "when I coached Alex Smith he wasn't mobile either ." ****. Actually commit yo his strengths hire a passing game coordinator that has alot of run & shoot/air raid background to help maximize Tyler's ability to throw the football. If you aren't going to change you philosophy then change personnel abduction go with Dak. Tyler isn't being all he can be with the RIGHT scheme. He could be a 4-5k yd passer in a run & shoot/air raid scheme no doubt. But that is NOT what we are running right now! UM has more air raid philosophies than we do. It requires dialed in motion to create mismatches. The zone read play they use so often where Scott is next to Wallace in the shotgun....where Wallace puts it in the "grid"....if they are trips to that side as well he's not reading the DE he's now reading the OLB. If the OLB bites on the dive they work a bubble to the trips side to catch him slipping. We don't work plays like that....those are Mike Leech/Sumlin like plays. Tyler has his head down when he play fakes with LdP he's not reading anybody at all. That's a mechanics flaw that he's done all yr. If I'm a MLB or OLB bubble& i see his head down and not up....I'm not biting on that ****. I'm gonna squat and read. The play isn't quick enough to catch me slipping and I swear to God if they run the read option to my side I'm going to the RB every mother 17ing time & beg him to keep it.Because when he does that $ is gonna knock his *** OUT!
Along these lines.....
We've got Adrian Marcus coming back, but you're correct about how many LBs we have. I got curious & went to look at the roster. I think the perfect guy to move over to FB is Christian Holmes. He's just a sophomore, a junior next season. He's got good size for a FB at 6'1", 225 and could probably bulk up some to give himself a little more punch blocking. And most importantly, he's a MLB and will be highly unlikely to play at all next season. He's currently running 3rd team behind McKinney & Bohanna. Next year, Richie Brown joins the mix, meaning Holmes will slide further down the depth chart to 4th string. Get on it, offensive coaches.
We've got Adrian Marcus coming back, but you're correct about how many LBs we have. I got curious & went to look at the roster. I think the perfect guy to move over to FB is Christian Holmes. He's just a sophomore, a junior next season. He's got good size for a FB at 6'1", 225 and could probably bulk up some to give himself a little more punch blocking. And most importantly, he's a MLB and will be highly unlikely to play at all next season. He's currently running 3rd team behind McKinney & Bohanna. Next year, Richie Brown joins the mix, meaning Holmes will slide further down the depth chart to 4th string. Get on it, offensive coaches.