Coaching Offensive sets...

[rufan4ever]

I have been a longtime fan and know a little something about the game. What I can't understand is why it is so difficult to create open looks from the outside especially for Cam Spencer.
We managed some success during the first half of the Wisconsin game when Cam went 5 for 6.
It can't be that difficult to run offensive sets to get our shooters open.
All I see is our guards excessively dribbling into traffic, no ball movement, passing to Cliff 5 feet away from the basket where he is ineffective, or being forced to drive the lane deep into the shot clock.
There is no semblance of an organized offensive game plan.
Why don't we play more inside out? They force the ball to Cliff who is often then double teamed. Instead of him taking low percentage shots, he should be able to kick the ball back out to an open shooter.
We will score more points taking more 3's than the current strategy which is clearly not working.
The coaching staff has to be able to fix this offense.
Like to hear suggestions from the peanut gallery on how to make our offense more efficient with the personnel we have.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

We run no offensive sets, there is your answer.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Here is some more feedback for you:
-We have no one who can handle to ball, so we continue to have Cam bringing the ball up and playing way too much on the ball. He should be off the ball running though multiple screens on every play to get him open shots.
-Teams have figured out how to keep Mulcahy out of the paint because he is slow and a poor ballhandler. Keep someone in front of him and have other players dig at the ball, and he is completely taken out of his game. We should move him around and try to post him up instead of having him try to dribble through traffic.
-We used to have lots of success playing pick and roll with Paul and Cliff, and have completely gone away from it for reasons that are unexplainable.
-We have no one who can get to the rim without barreling through a defender and getting called for a charge. Our players seem to have no body control.
-Our players can’t shoot.

 

[Scangg]

The lack of high ball screen pick n roll with Paul and Cliff is really strange

We don't have people who can penetrate draw the defense and dish

We don't run set plays to get him open

We don't move the ball quickly enough

We don't move off ball enough

 

[rufan4ever]

The lack of high ball screen pick n roll with Paul and Cliff is really strange

We don't have people who can penetrate draw the defense and dish

We don't run set plays to get him open

We don't move the ball quickly enough

We don't move off ball enough

There is literally nobody in motion off the ball. Cam dribbling looking to penetrate is a total waste. He needs to be in motion looking to be in position for the open look. The coaching staff is competent. Maybe it just can't be done with this cast.

 

[KnightTerrors]

I have been a longtime fan and know a little something about the game. What I can't understand is why it is so difficult to create open looks from the outside especially for Cam Spencer.
We managed some success during the first half of the Wisconsin game when Cam went 5 for 6.
It can't be that difficult to run offensive sets to get our shooters open.
All I see is our guards excessively dribbling into traffic, no ball movement, passing to Cliff 5 feet away from the basket where he is ineffective, or being forced to drive the lane deep into the shot clock.
There is no semblance of an organized offensive game plan.
Why don't we play more inside out? They force the ball to Cliff who is often then double teamed. Instead of him taking low percentage shots, he should be able to kick the ball back out to an open shooter.
We will score more points taking more 3's than the current strategy which is clearly not working.
The coaching staff has to be able to fix this offense.
Like to hear suggestions from the peanut gallery on how to make our offense more efficient with the personnel we have.

It’s hard to play inside out when the person penetrating isn’t a threat to score. This is why the fan base is clamoring for Paul to be more aggressive in looking for his own shot because when does our offense is at its best.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

It’s hard to play inside out when the person penetrating isn’t a threat to score. This is why the fan base is clamoring for Paul to be more aggressive in looking for his own shot because when does our offense is at its best.

The problem is he is a weak ball handler who dribbles high and is susceptible to players digging at the ball when tries to drive to the basket. We should try posting him up rather than having him try to dribble through traffic.

 

[cm_13]

It’s hard to play inside out when the person penetrating isn’t a threat to score. This is why the fan base is clamoring for Paul to be more aggressive in looking for his own shot because when does our offense is at its best.

Yep. Defense doesn’t have to collapse on penetration if they know the guy penetrating isn’t going to try to score.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Michigan collapsed all day and were quick enough to challenge Hyatt and Cam. There were no wide open 3’s because they played D like we do. That’s a very athletic team. Wisconsin is a slower team.

 

[Shell21]

There is literally nobody in motion off the ball. Cam dribbling looking to penetrate is a total waste. He needs to be in motion looking to be in position for the open look. The coaching staff is competent. Maybe it just can't be done with this cast.

this . we had much better motion and ball sharing at the beginning of the year. Once teams got a lot of film on us and we got into league play this changed and we didnt adjust for some reason. Sometimes you have to adjust your offense multiple times during the year and create new identities . Our identity seems to be stand around

 

[rufan4ever]

If we stand around during the Penn State game we have little chance to win. It's going to be difficult holding them under 70. Cam is going to need to move off the ball to get open and knock down 3's. A repeat of the offense against Michigan and it's going to be a long night. The coaching staff has a couple days to look at film and
put together a better offensive scheme. We need this win at Penn State badly.

 

[Rutgers25]

We stand around on offense, because we’re exhausted from defense. A motion offense is impossible given the effort level Pike demands on defense. His strategy can work with the right talent.

 

[Shelby65]

The problem is he is a weak ball handler who dribbles high and is susceptible to players digging at the ball when tries to drive to the basket. We should try posting him up rather than having him try to dribble through traffic.

Right. He’s a poor PG. He’s an undersized 4. Or put another way, he has 1950s basketball talent. I agree he’s best utilized posting up opposing smaller backcourt players. He abused Curbelo last year at the RAC. He is good at that

 

[RUJMM78]

The skillset of players usually determines the half court offense.This Rutgers team lacks players that can create and make shots off the dribble. Rutgers is easy to defend especially with the limited 3 point shooting options.Cliff and Cam probably are the only players that opponents discuss in the pregame scouting report.Right now its difficult for this team to score 60 points.

 

[motorb54]

It amazes me how often we get in our own way in the paint.
When we try to feed Cliff it is easy for the opponent to double as we have another player and his defender close by. Also, too often when Cliff gets the ball no one keeps moving to be available for a kick out.

 

[RUBigFrank]

We used to run a high post screen when Myles Johnson was with us.

Need a good pick and roll from Cliff on a regular basis.

 

[Shelby65]

Frank, please don’t refer to Myles and offense in the same post. Many here still have Myles offense PTSD.

 

[nutfromSEC117]

No one can shoot outside of Cam
Kinda like trying to run the football when every DB is charging forward cause you can’t complete a pass over 15 yards in the air.

 

[richthedentist]

Very good points made on all as far as Myles with the pick and roll we used to run that way to high out and it was not effective; the best pick and roll we ran all year was the first half of the Illinois game where we had Cliff set the pick at the key and we ended up with either the roll or 5 or 6 jumpers that we actually took and made them again in that game for some reason we completely went away from it in the second half
As for getting the ball inside to Cliff when he gets it and gets double teamed he is so ineffective at passing out of the double and many times ends up turning the ball over
Against Michigan they didn't have to double because Dickinson could easily guard him one on one and lastly with Cliff he just forces it way too much because he basically has no post moves and as also discussed he doesn't get position low enough in the post many times
A lot is predicated on Mulcahy not shooting the god damn ball he had the one catch and shoot for 3 early against Michigan but then so many times he will pass up open shots only to force it down low and end up with a very difficult shot; he needs to shoot at least 12-15 times a game he has to be selfish and if he makes those outside shots he will force his guy to come out more and then he will be able to drive and create
As for movement off the ball, back screens we have none!!

 

[MiloTalon13]

We have good offense when we can run it
We cant get where we need to go vs good ball pressure
We have guys with limited skills and BBIQ on offense so what we can run is limited

This was really nice

 

[RUBlackout]

Well its very hard when you have PM, Palm, and Caleb out there on the floor on offense. None of them are a true offensive weapon. PM is so unselfish that he is not a threat to score so defenders play up on him now aggressively knowing he is only looking to pass. When we run our pick n roll they are collapsing in the paint to avoid his driving lane.
Palm is only s pot up shooter and does not move without the ball. When he does touch it he is only looking to pass if the shot is not there. Again east to defend.
Caleb actually has some skills but they all require him backing his man down and take time to develop which usually winds down the shot clock and forces a bad shot when it isn't moving as fast as he wants.
As for Cliff, while he struggles to create the right shots in the post, he typically gets the ball too far outside the block on post ups. I think our team really struggles with passing at times and using angles. They need to get him the ball within 3 ft of the basket for him to have success Additionally, some of the players need to realize what clearing out means. Too often they allow they don't space out the floor which allows their help side defender to double down on cliff. Since they dont really move off the ball which would create some open looks or create 1:1 situations for Cliff they are doing him and our team a disservice.

 

[dark_check]

A couple years back we used to run a Horns set and I feel if you did that with Cliff and Oskar you either have a roll with Cliff or a pop with Oskar. Sit Andre and Cam in the corners. Andre is streaky but he can certainly carry us in some games. Paul or Derek should be effective running it.

Or even a five out, stay with me, where Cliff cuts and his side corner rises, maybe Cam. Exchange on the other side to halt the help on Cliff. If Cliffs defender sags in the paint then he can simply screen for the corner to get a quick 3. Simplistic, yes, but we have no player or ball movement now.

 

[richthedentist]

A couple years back we used to run a Horns set and I feel if you did that with Cliff and Oskar you either have a roll with Cliff or a pop with Oskar. Sit Andre and Cam in the corners. Andre is streaky but he can certainly carry us in some games. Paul or Derek should be effective running it.

Or even a five out, stay with me, where Cliff cuts and his side corner rises, maybe Cam. Exchange on the other side to halt the help on Cliff. If Cliffs defender sags in the paint then he can simply screen for the corner to get a quick 3. Simplistic, yes, but we have no player or ball movement now.

Even against Michigan we passed to a wide open Hyatt in the corner for 3 and he passes up the shot dribbles in and I can't remember if he turned it over or just missed the shot but that's a perfect example of our guys just passing up open shots. I also don't know if this is on our coaches if they are worried if they miss or shoot too much they are coming out heck at this point I just want them to shoot an open shot!!! and not hesitate

 

[RUBlackout]

Even against Michigan we passed to a wide open Hyatt in the corner for 3 and he passes up the shot dribbles in and I can't remember if he turned it over or just missed the shot but that's a perfect example of our guys just passing up open shots. I also don't know if this is on our coaches if they are worried if they miss or shoot too much they are coming out heck at this point I just want them to shoot an open shot!!! and not hesitate

Yeah I know the play you are talking about. I think his confidence was shot and just decided to drive instead. I believe he got called for a foul to turn it over on that play. Sux

 

[MiloTalon13]

We often have 2, 3 or even 4 players on the court with big offensive limitations and poor decision making skills. This limits what we can run successfully.

For example, you can't run any kind of high post offense where Cliff has to catch the ball on the perimeter and do anything other than make a reversal pass or a handoff. He's poor at reading defense. You can't rely on him to make a pass to a guy cutting back door or fading.

Hyatt is either catch and shoot or go to the hoop, once he puts it on the floor, it's over in terms of his decision making.

Similar type of stuff with Caleb, Simpson and Paul. Teams scout us and know this stuff and take advantage of it.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

The "we don't run an offense" narrative always rears into ugly head during a losing streak.....disappears when we are making shots and winning.

 

[RUJMM78]

The "we don't run an offense" narrative always rears into ugly head during a losing streak.....disappears when we are making shots and winning.

Not true.The team offensive stats have shown a weakness throuhout the B1G Ten. season.

 

[rufan4ever]

Thanks for all your input. I think Caleb, Paul, Cliff, Cam, and Andre have to play 35 minutes a game with no more of this substitution by committee bringing in three players off the bench. Then we run half court offensive sets moving the ball around using most of the shot clock. That will shorten the game, give our D more rest, and give us a chance to win in a 58-55 type game.

 

[GreaseTruckCaptain]

I have been a longtime fan and know a little something about the game. What I can't understand is why it is so difficult to create open looks from the outside especially for Cam Spencer.
We managed some success during the first half of the Wisconsin game when Cam went 5 for 6.
It can't be that difficult to run offensive sets to get our shooters open.
All I see is our guards excessively dribbling into traffic, no ball movement, passing to Cliff 5 feet away from the basket where he is ineffective, or being forced to drive the lane deep into the shot clock.
There is no semblance of an organized offensive game plan.
Why don't we play more inside out? They force the ball to Cliff who is often then double teamed. Instead of him taking low percentage shots, he should be able to kick the ball back out to an open shooter.
We will score more points taking more 3's than the current strategy which is clearly not working.
The coaching staff has to be able to fix this offense.
Like to hear suggestions from the peanut gallery on how to make our offense more efficient with the personnel we have.

Quite frankly, Cam is a great spot up shooter but his athleticism is lacking. B1G teams have figured out if you stay up in his grill 30 feet from the basket and closer, he cant shake his defender

 

[MiloTalon13]

Quite frankly, Cam is a great spot up shooter but his athleticism is lacking. B1G teams have figured out if you stay up in his grill 30 feet from the basket and closer, he cant shake his defender

Along with this, they've figured out if they stop Cam, we don't have much else offensively.

 

[bac2therac]

The "we don't run an offense" narrative always rears into ugly head during a losing streak.....disappears when we are making shots and winning.

No its still blows when we are winning but people like you shout any criticism down when we win

 

[Shelby65]

Quite frankly, Cam is a great spot up shooter but his athleticism is lacking. B1G teams have figured out if you stay up in his grill 30 feet from the basket and closer, he cant shake his defender

wait, what? Could Iverson shoot from deep ? Could Chris Mullin shake a defender ? nobody can do everything. Cam is plenty athletic to be a solid B10 guard. He’s the best all around player on the team without question. aside from him and occasionally Hyatt, there’s no other offensive talent on the team and yet you nitpick his athleticism ? JFC.

 

[Scangg]

wait, what? Could Iverson shoot from deep ? Could Chris Mullin shake a defender ? nobody can do everything. Cam is plenty athletic to be a solid B10 guard. He’s the best all around player on the team without question. aside from him and occasionally Hyatt, there’s no other offensive talent on the team and yet you nitpick his athleticism ? JFC.

Cam's game really suffers from the lack of offensive talent around him. If he was on a different team with better offense, he would likely thrive

 

[MiloTalon13]

Cam's game really suffers from the lack of offensive talent around him. If he was on a different team with better offense, he would likely thrive

I agree and think we will see that next year with him and Griff together
Cam throws skip passes to set up shots and in beginning of year was driving and kicking more too. With another shooter he will be much more effective

 

[Shelby65]

Cam's game really suffers from the lack of offensive talent around him. If he was on a different team with better offense, he would likely thrive

exactly. he’d also be a far better PG than Mulcahy except we need him to shoot jumpers more than a PG typically does. That’s why Paul is the PG...because scoring isnt the primary function of that role. As a lesser skilled offensive player, He hurts us least as the PG.

Same idea with having big bats play 1B and weaker hitters play middle infield. Different production needs from different positions. Paul’s limitations would be more glaring at the 2 or 3. it’s painful to even think about what the offense would look like with Cam as PG and Paul as SG, not to mention with Caleb also on the court. Nightmare.

 

[fluoxetine]

No its still blows when we are winning but people like you shout any criticism down when we win

"We don't run an offense" is nonsense always.

"We don't run an offense well" is pretty clearly true. It tends to be less true in wins, but even in just our wins our average adjusted offensive efficiency is only 106.9, which would be #141 nationally.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

No its still blows when we are winning but people like you shout any criticism down when we win

Lol

Disagreeing and debating is not shouting down criticism. Sorry if this is not a safe place for you.

 

[Colbert17!]

We don't move off ball enough

This

 

[GreaseTruckCaptain]

wait, what? Could Iverson shoot from deep ? Could Chris Mullin shake a defender ? nobody can do everything. Cam is plenty athletic to be a solid B10 guard. He’s the best all around player on the team without question. aside from him and occasionally Hyatt, there’s no other offensive talent on the team and yet you nitpick his athleticism ? JFC.

its not nitpicking, its an objective observation. games where he doesnt score, they pressure him 5 feet beyond the arc every second hes on the floor and he cant shake it. no ones expects him to be steph curry and run around until hes free. its not a knock on him as a player, its partially also due to the fact that no one else on the floor scares the defense enough to make cam;s defender not need to stick to him, and i also think our team doesnt set screens very well. if they did, he could get some better looks. so its not all on him, but i dont think anyone can deny when you see his defender stick on him like white on rice, you know its gonna be a long day for him

 

[Shelby65]

i cant think of any top shooter, ever, who can also blow by defenders. not even in the NBA. but ok, yes when they smother him he has a tough time getting open looks, by definition. if he’s “not athletic’ how does he rank 18 in steals in the country and doesnt get the ball stolen when he drives ?