Coaching/recruiting/team comparison question

Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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After Mullen's first year - a marked improvement with a tough schedule over Croom's last - he recruited the No. 38 class in the country according to scout. The group included 19 Mississippians, 8 of whom had no other offers from a BCS school - assumedly to hammer home the "this is our state" mantra. And while I'm at it, where the hell is Matthew Wells?

Freeze hit the 6-6 mark in year 1, and has put together a class ranked No. 23 with, it appears, several big commits coming down the pipe soon. Nkemdiche appears to be a lock. Top 10 wide receivers Stacy Coley and LaQuon Treadwell have been going back and forth on twitter tonight that they're coming. All predictions right now have it that Conner inks with us. It's going to come down to us and Michigan, it appears, for one of the top running backs in the country in Derrick Green. We definitely have a shot at DE Elijah Daniel.

That's six players in the top 8 at their positions. As a hypothetical, assuming we land all six, and of course they have to get in school and stick and evolve as players and really contribute, my first question is, did Mullen even attempt to get his foot in the door on this type talent initially?

Second question derives from some chatter I saw on here bitching about the last episode of "The Season" where Freeze referenced national titles. I know we're not even going to have a chance soon. I know we're probably not going to have a shot at the SEC west anytime soon.

But, if he's able to get a serious look and SOME commitments from these types of players after a 6-6 year, coupled with the completely unexpected improvement we demonstrated this year, are aspirations of making it to Atlanta, a BCS game and one day, the national championship game, really all that ridiculous?

Yeah, we're 6-6 right now. But the record does not indicate the turnaround in this team from 2-10 last year. We could easily be 7-5, 8-4 or 9-3 right now. Coach34 himself decided to switch his stance on us from untalented patsy to we've got more talent that meets the eye. As thin as we were, if we had this many talented guys playing and add some of the names I mentioned above, along with the guys at all the other positions who are already committed and will add great depth, really, is it that foolish to aspire to greater thing in the - potentially near - future?

All along, I've felt that, early on, Mullen was so locked in on his focus on Mississippi that he lost sight of one fact - the best way to quickly improve your program is to go after the best talent available, regardless of what state's borders they're within. Does Freeze have more momentum following his first year than Mullen did following his first, and is he doing a better job capitalizing on it?

I've also gained a little perspective on Freeze and his former boss. Orgeron could recruit the talent, and he had SEVERAL near misses who could've been program changers and hidden his ****** coaching abilities. The difference his 2006 class made was obvious on the field. But he was not a good coach.

Based on this year, Freeze and his staff know how to coach, and damn, this team was somehow up and motivated for every single game. It never got down. It never quit. And Freeze is in on the type of talent Orgeron tended to be in on, and it looks like he'll actually close the deal on a good number of them.

Final question. Think back folks. Which position would you prefer FOR YOUR TEAM, given the recruiting/coaching/success chances of both coaches in this scenario. Which position would you rather be in, and who would you rather have as your head coach? Mullen post-2009, heading into 2010, or Freeze post-2012, heading into 2013?
 

myusernamesucks

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Mar 5, 2009
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Too long

 
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Irondawg

Junior
Dec 2, 2007
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honestly I have no 17n clue how OM gets a lot of these guys with much bigger offer sheets seriously interested in giving OM a look. It honestly makes so sense no matter how nice a guy and great a talker Freeze might be. He's not the only coach in that #20-60 program range with some personality and effort.

By all reasonable measures our programs are somewhat equal over the past 20 years, yet we have had almost zero effort in landing big recruits from out of state compared to what OM has landed under orgeron and now potentially freeze.

it's simply uncanny and it's hard for me to believe that you are simply outbidding other folks from there players. you have more resources than us, but not more than a lot of programs that are losing some of these guys
 

Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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Ah, you must be the waitress at the Starkville Waffle House who asked me "what you readin for?" or the trucker who sad "Well, looks like we got ourselves a readah." Good to see they give y'all the night off occasionally.

Or are you the fan who approached me after my 1-minute, 1-man show? "Hey folks, um, momma never beat me and daddy never 17ed me. Goodnight." Good show, a bit long. But I got a question. What you said about your daddy not 17ing you, you made that up right? "Um no, I was serious. And get the 17 away from me!"

Now, I do await the thoughts of those of you with multiple brain cells and the capability of cognitive thought. And opposable thumbs (photoshop jobs don't count).
 
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Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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it's simply uncanny and it's hard for me to believe that you are simply outbidding other folks from there players. you have more resources than us, but not more than a lot of programs that are losing some of these guys

I'm of the same opinion, and have no idea what it is myself. What do you think it is?
 

Irondawg

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Dec 2, 2007
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I'm of the same opinion, and have no idea what it is myself. What do you think it is?

There are only a couple of things that make any kind of sense to me if you assume Freeze is just not the best saleman in coaching. One, the kids are a lot like many of the kids Stans recruited and have some character flaws that some of the other schools may decide just aren't worth dealing with, second is that that some of them are grade risks that most teams don't feel are worth the risk of getting left with an open spot or you guys really are upping the ante on a few of them. Maybe a combination of all three.

I will say you guys put much more effort on some regional recruiting than we do (a mistake on our part I think) and only worry about positioning yourself well for some big fish in MS. Panola is never really a concern and you did what needed to be done with Ward and CJ and i think both will pan out nicely for you. And you really did well with RN this year in taking the brother and i don't think anyone really fully realized how big an impact that would have on mama and then you found a way to take care of dad as well. Just well played and then the 6-6 really helped there. If you had the 4-8 season I don't think the same allure would have been there and he ends up at Bama.
 

HammerOfTheDogs

All-Conference
Jun 20, 2001
10,638
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You've had Top 10 and Top 20 classes for decades now. There's one reason for it- Bear Fan buys more recruiting subscriptions per capita than any other fan base. If State fans decided to be as geeked out about recruiting as Bear fans are, we'd start winning the recruiting wars.
 

512taylor

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Sep 2, 2012
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How the hell long did it take you to post this?

Would you mind taking some of your free time and help me clean my yard?
 
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DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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Get back to me on Freeze after year 4. He's done better than I expected so far. He has **** the bed in atleast 3 games I watched also (aTm, LSU, Vandy). He made up for it by winning the Egg Bowl but his blunder vs aTm was quite large. Up 10 under 10 and aTm is sitting on their own 1yrd line and Freeze found a way to blow that game. 4th and 1 on his own 39 with 3 minutes left and still winning by 4 he runs a shotgun running play with his small RB up the middle? That was a colossal 17 up. Mullen has never had one even remotely close to that. Not trying to be a dick here but I think you're drinking the Freeze Kool-Aid a bit much right now.

Did you really just ask a Mississippi State board if we'd rather have Freezus over Mullen? The answer is no. At no point in any time in any year would any MSU fan want Bucky Freezus as head coach over Dan Mullen. We'll fire Dan and get a better one before we'll ever want your coach.
 

Homer J Simpson

Redshirt
Nov 3, 2012
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Did you really just ask a Mississippi State board if we'd rather have Freezus over Mullen? The answer is no. At no point in any time in any year would any MSU fan want Bucky Freezus as head coach over Dan Mullen. We'll fire Dan and get a better one before we'll ever want your coach.

No, I didn't ask about straight Freeze over Mullen. I asked which position y'all would rather be in (season, recruiting, etc., all taken into account): Where you were under Mullen after his first year, or where we are under Freeze after his first year. As for Freeze's 17ups, I concur, and to an extent chalk that up to being a first-year SEC coach.

Get some of these big-time prospects in (and if he gets them all, holy ****), we will have a better chance to finish games. Forgot to mention, getting Brassell back will also be huge.
 
Sep 11, 2012
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Just a few comments on this.

I think it's a bit premature to even begin to think of OM as an SEC West contender. I don't give a damn if we have a top ten recruiting class the next four years, that will just give us the ability to compete with Alabama and LSU, we would still have to beat them.

Second, I didn't give Dan **** when he talked about winning "actual" championships, and I sure as **** am not going to give Freeze any flack for talking about a National Championship. In my mind every football program has two options: 1. Try and win a national championship 2. Disband the program altogether.
 

brywxguy

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
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Well played.

Ah, you must be the waitress at the Starkville Waffle House who asked me "what you readin for?" or the trucker who sad "Well, looks like we got ourselves a readah." Good to see they give y'all the night off occasionally.

Or are you the fan who approached me after my 1-minute, 1-man show? "Hey folks, um, momma never beat me and daddy never 17ed me. Goodnight." Good show, a bit long. But I got a question. What you said about your daddy not 17ing you, you made that up right? "Um no, I was serious. And get the 17 away from me!"

Now, I do await the thoughts of those of you with multiple brain cells and the capability of cognitive thought. And opposable thumbs (photoshop jobs don't count).

I thoroughly enjoy the comedy of the late Bill Hicks.
 

Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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Awesome. He went way too soon, and would've had a field day with the last two decades. After Billy Ray Cyrus endorsed Obama though, I did wonder which candidate he would've voted for.
 

Loco Jose

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Aug 22, 2012
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Recruiting at OM is institutionalized. Has been for years.
At State, it is handled by the football staff. OM does and always will, do it better unless we change.
Not talking just payoffs. EVERYBODY at OM recruits year round & are educated on how to do it. From students to alumni.
 

FISHDAWG

Redshirt
Dec 27, 2009
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go tout your new found euphoria on your own board ... you're beginning to sound like a broken record spewing your TSUN bs here ... here's a thought - do it again then you can come over here and beat your chest like yall have done something ... I don't know why you won't quit after most folks here have acknowledged that Freeze isn't a bad coach ... you should be satisfied with that and STFU
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
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4th and 1 on his own 39 with 3 minutes left and still winning by 4 he runs a shotgun running play with his small RB up the middle? That was a colossal 17 up. Mullen has never had one even remotely close to that.

Third and goal at Auburn 2011 begs to differ. As does the entire series after the onside kick against Auburn 2010. As does the series where we were first and goal in the fourth quarter against South Carolina in 2011.

Let's don't act like we've got the spawn of Lombardi and Belichick on our sidelines.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
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This is fairly accurate. To them it's second nature. They put the right people in the right place at the right time. CJ bumping in PWilly at the square for example. Taurus Ward getting a scholarship. Nothing is coincidental.

Lastly, they have made an art out of preying on less fortunate kids (and parents) by establishing up really strong, short-term relationships with them. Tempting these kids and their parents with shiny objects works really well.

We are WAY too passive. Especially considering what little we have to offer over other schools.
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
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700
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This is fairly accurate. To them it's second nature. They put the right people in the right place at the right time. CJ bumping in PWilly at the square for example. Taurus Ward getting a scholarship. Nothing is coincidental.

Lastly, they have made an art out of preying on less fortunate kids (and parents) by establishing up really strong, short-term relationships with them. Tempting these kids and their parents with shiny objects works really well.

We are WAY too passive. Especially considering what little we have to offer over other schools.

Also you have to remember that really pre-JWS the vast majority of MSU fans and alumni pretty much accepted that the program was a loser and wasn't really worth much time and effort to be seriously involved with. OM boosters, even in their worst years, have NEVER given up hope in their program and have just in general had more emotionally invested in their program than the typical MSU fan. For us, its hard to, in 20 years, reverse all that and go from general apathy to having a smooth running funtioning system among the boosters that helps allure prospects in the intricate ways we know OM does without tripping all over ourselves (see the Memphis situation). Plus we have the Bracky factor at MSU that is a hindrance as well, OM doesn't have such an issue in their compliance area and wouldn't allow such an issue to continue if it did.
 

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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To me Mullen's biggest error in game to date was his lack of challenging the Ballard touchdown thru the final 18 seconds of that game. That was his worst but he was trailing. Whole nother animal when you're winning by 4 with 3 minutes left in a game and you decide to go for it on 4th n inches from the shotgun with a tiny RB from your own 39yrd line and get stuffed short forcing you to turn the ball over on downs. I've cussed Mullen many times but Freezus holds the cup for 2012 dumbass coaching blunder.

You be the judge.

Mullen shitting the bed. (sorry you'll have to skip through the awesome video)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkLOM_zOrA8

Freezus shitting the bed. (again sorry you'll have to skip ahead, it's so difficult and all)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7-N2hNXDylI
 

Railin Jemmye

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Oct 29, 2012
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Nkemdiche appears to be a lock. Top 10 wide receivers Stacy Coley and LaQuon Treadwell have been going back and forth on twitter tonight that they're coming. All predictions right now have it that Conner inks with us. It's going to come down to us and Michigan, it appears, for one of the top running backs in the country in Derrick Green. We definitely have a shot at DE Elijah Daniel.

Enough of this nonsense. You aren't getting Coley, Treadwell, Green or Daniel. You'll get Nkemdiche due to luck, obviously. Conner is at USP. Shocker he would choose Ole Miss.

Let's not act like Ole Miss has done something special here. Your commitment list looks like it always does. You don't really have much in the way of MS recruiting at all. Buchanan, that's about it. The rest are projects. And counting Liggins towards the class to boost the ranking? Thanks Yancy.
 

Railin Jemmye

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Oct 29, 2012
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That call got an official review, want to say they looked at it for quite awhile.

I think most people think we should have thrown the ball on the 3rd down at the end of the game, so we'd be able to get 2 cracks at the endzone instead of one. But that in and of itself makes it predictable. So I don't fault Mullen too much for going against the grain. Plus, that play had been successful all day for us.
 

esplanade91

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Dec 9, 2010
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Give me Tyler Russell, Fletcher Cox, Johnthan Banks and the likes all day every damn day over some random kid from Georgia and Illinois or wherever. Mullen's loyalties lie with the people, for some odd reason.

Have your "no 1 ranked RB" and whoever else. We're just going to sign a Cam Lawrence type kid and put up just as gaudy of numbers at a given position.

Nationally recruiting was how SMU got in trouble, fwiw.
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
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To me Mullen's biggest error in game to date was his lack of challenging the Ballard touchdown thru the final 18 seconds of that game. That was his worst but he was trailing. Whole nother animal when you're winning by 4 with 3 minutes left in a game and you decide to go for it on 4th n inches from the shotgun with a tiny RB from your own 39yrd line and get stuffed short forcing you to turn the ball over on downs. I've cussed Mullen many times but Freezus holds the cup for 2012 dumbass coaching blunder.

You be the judge.

Mullen shitting the bed. (sorry you'll have to skip through the awesome video)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkLOM_zOrA8

Freezus shitting the bed. (again sorry you'll have to skip ahead, it's so difficult and all)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7-N2hNXDylI

Speaking of challenges, if our coaching staff had challenged the HORRENDOUS illegal forward pass call against Tyson Lee in the Houston game that would have had us first and goal at the one, there is a very realistic chance we would now be going to our FOURTH bowl in a row. Don't see how that one could have withstood a review given Lee was a full yard behind the LOS.
 

Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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You don't really have much in the way of MS recruiting at all. Buchanan, that's about it. The rest are projects. And counting Liggins towards the class to boost the ranking? Thanks Yancy.

I see your quote, and I raise you one of my own. "After Mullen's first year - a marked improvement with a tough schedule over Croom's last - he recruited the No. 38 class in the country according to scout. The group included 19 Mississippians, 8 of whom had no other offers from a BCS school."

You want to talk projects? Y'all sign several every year from Mississippi as well. Banks was a project as well. And then Matthew Wells was a 4-star and I don't remember his name being called all year.

Will we get all 6 of those players I mentioned? Probably not. But the fact we're in the conversation at this stage after a 6-6 year is amazing.And, honestly, you never know. You land Nkemdiche, the ball just might start rolling.
 
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Homer J Simpson

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Nov 3, 2012
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Now you sit there and spew about how y'all will find your diamond in the rough and we can have whatever big star we want. Then you warn against national recruiting being how SMU got in trouble.

1. You realize it wasn't just that they recruited nationally, but how they recruited nationally that got them n trouble, right?
2. The most successful programs tend to recruit nationally.

For instance, Notre Dame's last four recruiting classes include SEVEN (7) players from the state of Indiana. The best player, T'eo, is from Hawaii. Alabama's doing better in the at-home department, as 34 of their 100+signees the last four years are from Alabama. But they are also recruiting nationally. Kansas State? Over four years, 23 of their signees are from Kansas.

Sure, you've got schools like LSU who are in a state so rich in talent that they can rely on home-grown folks, but even LSU, Texas, USC and others have to go outside their state borders to get the talent they need to win. "This is our state," but a lot of times, the best available talent is not located in this state. If you want to play with the big boys, one way to do it is to go after the same talent the big boys are going after.

Not relying on diamonds in the rough. We're going after the big fish. Will it pay off, or will the rod break? Only time will tell.
 
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Railin Jemmye

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Oct 29, 2012
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You ain't Notre Dame or Alabama, pal.

You are Ole Miss by damn. LSU, Texas and USC don't go wherever they want. Top talent goes to them. Kansas State recruits everywhere else because they HAVE to, no talent in Kansas. But they tear those JUCOs up, because, get this: THAT'S THE EASIEST ACCESSIBLE TALENT.

Have to find wherever that is, for your school. For MSU, it's the States of Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana. Same for Ole Miss. Atlanta, Texas and Florida may have alot of talent, but they also have every school like Kansas State in there competing for it.
 

jacksonreb

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Aug 22, 2012
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some might remember lsu in 2009 also.....monster RB who's name i forget.......oh wait dixon...i remember that guy.....stands around while the midget qb tries a jump pass. that's easily as big a head scratcher as anything freeze has done.
 

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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Not even in the same ballpark. The playcall was fine. Dixon was wide open in the endzone. Jones just made a play and knocked it down. Freeze made a total brain fart and gave the ball back to aTm and the future heisman trophy winner with only 39 yards to go and 3 minutes to work with. Anytime you have a 4 point lead late in a game you never ever go for a 4th down conversion on your side of the field.
 

Homer J Simpson

Redshirt
Nov 3, 2012
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You ain't Notre Dame or Alabama, pal.

You are Ole Miss by damn. LSU, Texas and USC don't go wherever they want. Top talent goes to them. Kansas State recruits everywhere else because they HAVE to, no talent in Kansas. But they tear those JUCOs up, because, get this: THAT'S THE EASIEST ACCESSIBLE TALENT.

Have to find wherever that is, for your school. For MSU, it's the States of Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana. Same for Ole Miss. Atlanta, Texas and Florida may have alot of talent, but they also have every school like Kansas State in there competing for it.

Never said we were Notre Dame or Alabama. I'm pointing out that to reach their level, you have to expand your recruiting base. The easily accessible talent is not as good as the talent they get. To compete with them, you can't be afraid to go after the caliber of athlete they do.

Arguing that Kansas State recruits nationally because there's no talent in Kansas just proves it can be done. If they can do it, why shouldn't programs aspiring to move up the pecking order do the same thing rather than just settling for what's close by?