Collegiate Baseball Preseason Poll

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
We are #13. Mildly underrated IMO. Still got a bad taste in my mouth from them ranking both us/OM outside the top 40 in the preseason baseball poll last year(Here: http://www.baseballnews.com/polls/divI/archives/2012/ncaadivIpoll12-19-11.htm)

1. Arkansas
2. North Carolina
3. Vanderbilt
4. LSU
5. UCLA
6. Oregon
7. South Carolina
8. Kentucky
9. Stanford
10. Oregon State
11. NC State
12. San Diego
13. Mississippi State
14. Oklahoma
15. TCU
16. Arizona State
17. Georgia Tech
18. Arizona
19. Florida State
20. Rice
21. Texas
22. Louisville
23. Cal State Fullerton
24. Florida
25. Ole Miss
26. Texas A&M

27. Clemson
28. Miami (Fla.)
29. Georgia
30. UC Irvine
31. Missouri State
32. Wichita State
33. New Mexico
34. Kent State
35. Virginia
36. Southern Miss
37. East Carolina
38. Coastal Carolina
39. Dallas Baptist
40. Pepperdine

Side note - We play all of the top 8 teams in the SEC this year - Plus Auburn and Alabama. Couldn't dream up a worse schedule.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
We are in a position talent-wise now where schedule doesn't matter. If we go 35-20 with that we'll host a regional.
 

Shmuley

Heisman
Mar 6, 2008
23,788
10,545
113
This post helps me better digest the egg bowl **** sandwich and briefly made me forget about the fubar alleged basketball program we're forced to witness.
 

MSUDC11

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
7,316
0
0
It's great that we are ranked highly, but I actually think we should be higher. I think we should be ahead of UK, and I don't buy Vandy and LSU at 3 and 4 if we are 13.

If we stay healthy, the first half of our lineup (Frazier, Bradford, Renfroe, Rea, Norris) could be ridiculous.

Our schedule does us no favors, but I still think we are a 16+ win SEC team, and I fully expect us to host a Regional.

It feels good to be back at the level of play where teams are saying "Crap, we have to go play in Starkville."
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Agreed... that's why I pointed out how badly Collegiate Baseball ranked us in the preseason last year.

I have to think that Baseball America and Perfect Game will have us a good bit higher... Won't be seeing those until late January though most likely.
 
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Macthebulldogfan

Redshirt
Dec 7, 2012
144
0
0
Has anyone heard about renovations to Dudy Noble. It is still OK but compared to other stadiums in the SEC it's outdated.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Has anyone heard about renovations to Dudy Noble. It is still OK but compared to other stadiums in the SEC it's outdated.

Next on the athletics department agenda...

Honestly, they are wanting the fan support to come back before they spend $15-20 mil on it... in which case I don't blame them one bit.
 

Macthebulldogfan

Redshirt
Dec 7, 2012
144
0
0
When they do re model it, they need to blow everybody else out of the water. I look forward the day we can say again that we have the best in the country.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
When they do re model it, they need to blow everybody else out of the water. I look forward the day we can say again that we have the best in the country.

"Best" is alot more difficult to accomplish nowadays... LSU spent $40 mil and South Carolina spent $35 on brand new stadiums. Ole Miss spent $20 mil on the Swayze renovation, while aTm spent $24mil on the Olsen Field(Blue Bell Park) renovation. Arkansas has been constantly renovating Baum a few million at a time and have plans for another major expansion to take their skyboxes all the way to the foul poles.

We are currently on the next tier behind those, but still better than the rest of the SEC... We can get back on the top level, but it's going to almost require demolishing the existing structure to do it IMO... Definitely need to demolish the press box and skyboxes and start over on those....
 
Mar 3, 2008
88
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I can't see Ole Miss at twenty-five. We have a chance to have pretty good pitching, but we have little power and will struggle to score runs.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
I still think we have the best atmosphere. While I agree the actual stadium could use the work (specifically the suites and such), I think we need to re-work the outfield. By doing this, I want to preserve the LFL. But maybe make RF and the bleacher area over there a big tailgate type area. That's one thing Ole Miss got right.....that way anybody can come out there and hang out, not just the people who own LFL spots.

Extend the stadium down the LFL and let it be general admission. It's nothing but a parking lot goat ranch down there anyway.
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
It's great that we are ranked highly, but I actually think we should be higher.

We haven't done **** to warrant any higher ranking than where we are now. Outside observers see us as a team with potential, but also a team losing one of the best pitchers in the game and was one of the worst SEC hitting teams a year ago. I expect us to host a regional based on potential but as to preseason rankings we haven't earned ****.

What will CT, Rea, and Norris provide? TBD. Will Renfroe put it together and find his BP power in games? TBD.
Will the new guys contribute or have to go through a learning curve year like so many last season? TBD.

I think an improved E. Mitchell, Woodruff, and veteran Graveman will make up for a rotation losing Stratton and our pen should be just as solid. Like last year, the arms will determine how far we go.

Based on our arms alone with mediocre hitting we have a base 34 win 15 SEC win year. If the O can get it together and improve based on normal year to year improvements in college ball we can hit 39 wins and 19 SEC w's.

I predict 37-17 17-13 SEC This would be a successful regular season given the toughness of the schedule and should earn us a regional host.
 

gravedigger

Redshirt
Feb 6, 2009
1,654
0
0
We haven't done **** to warrant any higher ranking than where we are now.......I expect us to host a regional based on potential but as to preseason rankings we haven't earned ****.


Peculiar, we've done enough **** to make you believe we will host a regional, but not any higher preseason ranking. What the 17 do you think rankings are for?

We lost a great pitcher. So did other teams. Rarely do top teams return the same starting lineup and staff.

CT Rea and Norris will provide the production that you expect. Those pitchers will make up (somewhat) for losing Stratton, but then again, one is going to have to be the man. If you believe that, why the hell do you think preseason rankings are about 'earning' anything but being the basis for expectations?

I dont have a prediction on this year as far as wins and losses, but I did ask Thomas Berkery who coaches my kids at the swing in Starkville. He said we have the talent to be very good. But the idea that that will translate into any certain amount of wins and losses is not really predictable because the game of baseball isnt. There are just too many teams, like the one that ended our season last year, that have potential for greatness that nobody ever recognizes preseason.

No, we havent earned anything of significance. But we have gained the attention of those who watch college baseball.
 
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SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
Peculiar, we've done enough **** to make you believe we will host a regional, but not any higher preseason ranking. What the 17 do you think rankings are for?


No, we havent earned anything of significance, but we have gained the attention of those who watch college baseball.


The original comment I was referring to stated that he thinks we are too low at 13. I correctly stated that we haven't earned anything to be considered higher than we are now. At 13 we would still be logically in line to host seeing as there are 16 host sites. Glad to see your last sentence agreed with me. Good try at "SPS Cool". Thanks for playing
 

gravedigger

Redshirt
Feb 6, 2009
1,654
0
0
I've never been accused of that so...ok. But If we are a top 16 team, ranked 13th, what is it exactly you have to do to 'earn' a better ranking than 13th? You stated we'd overcome the loss of stratton.

Did you not? If that is true, then being better than the 13th ranking is certainly plausible. Right now it's just a guess anyway and there isnt a damn team on the list that has earned anything, so thanks for stating the obvious.

Sixpack 'cool' as you put it would be defined as going AGAINST the grain of homerish msu fans. Which one of us did that?
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
What is it exactly you have to do to 'earn' a better ranking than 13th?

If we had won the Tallahassee regional, returning the personnel that we do, that would earn a higher spot than 13th. We didn't, therefore didn't earn a higher ranking. Which is what I was addressing regarding MSUDC11's post.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
I thought Scott said they were going to do some smaller sports like track and tennis next and then baseball? Regardless, renovations are going to happen within the next five years.

And to the people asking- it's going to happen in stages. What specific stages, I don't know. That is probably what they are trying to hammer out with the consultants and architects.

That's not a bad way to do it if we're trying to maximize and save money. We have a good field, a brand new drainage system, messing with the LFL in any way shape or form is probably would not go over well, and it really doesn't need to be changed that much anyway. So, the main things that need improving are expanding the grandstands and also the press box. A new scoreboard would be nice, but maybe not necessary.

My guess as to how it will go:

Stage 1: New grandstand/press box.
Stage 2: Expand grandstands to foul poles.
Stage 3: New concourses/ticket office.
Stage 4: New scoreboard.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
If we had won the Tallahassee regional, returning the personnel that we do, that would earn a higher spot than 13th. We didn't, therefore didn't earn a higher ranking. Which is what I was addressing regarding MSUDC11's post.

What did Vandy do to earn a top 3 ranking? Lose a road regional to NC State? What did LSU do to earn #4? Lose a home super-regional to Stony Brook? North Carolina lost a home regional to St. Johns! Kentucky lost a road regional in Gary, Indiana. Oregon St lost a road regional to LSU. San Diego went 2 and out @ UCLA. Those are just the ones ranked higher than us...The only SEC teams that you can truly justify ranking ahead of us are Arkansas and South Carolina based on the runs they made in the CWS. Arkansas lost Baxendale and South Carolina lost all the studs that have carried them...

Collegiate Baseball is a joke of a paper at this point. Glad we're ranked highly, but don't trust their eval at all, and I showed why based on last year. Baseball America and Perfect Game will rank us higher than this unless I really miss my guess...but they won't come out until January.
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
What did Vandy do to earn a top 3 ranking? Lose a road regional to NC State? What did LSU do to earn #4? Lose a home super-regional to Stony Brook?

They didn't bat .228 in conference play last season. I wasn't looking at everyone else, just stating that I don't think we've earned a spot in the top ten, let alone 3rd.

Polls are meaningless at this point anyway, if our bats improve then we will justify our spot and probably move up. If we can't hit again then we will look similar to last season and fall. I think 13 is about right, maybe a little high. It's all academic anyway until we lace em up and get out there.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
They didn't bat .228 in conference play last season. I wasn't looking at everyone else, just stating that I don't think we've earned a spot in the top ten, let alone 3rd.

Polls are meaningless at this point anyway, if our bats improve then we will justify our spot and probably move up. If we can't hit again then we will look similar to last season and fall. I think 13 is about right, maybe a little high. It's all academic anyway until we lace em up and get out there.

They all lost more than we did offensively as well -- all lost just as much on the hill -- and they didn't outrecruit us in the process either and certainly don't have more young guys with experience than we do. Pretty ridiculous to say we are ranked "too high" without looking at those around us and what they returned vs what we returned.

Honestly -- you are confident that we can replace Stratton's productivity, but you are skeptical that we will improve at the plate this year? That's pretty funny really, because the inverse is much more likely to be true...

We will be ranked better in both the other 2 major polls -- watch it happen. Had people arguing with me just 2 days ago that OM wouldn't be ranked in the preseason -- They will be ranked higher in the other polls as well. Just as I said, it is more likely that Southern Miss WAS ranked than Ole Miss being unranked, which in Collegiate Baseball ALL proved to be true.
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
They all lost more than we did offensively as well -- all lost just as much on the hill -- and they didn't outrecruit us in the process either. Pretty ridiculous to say we are ranked "too high" without looking at those around us and what they returned vs what we returned.

The .228 thing is just a crutch in your attempt to think we will be worse on that side than we will. Honestly -- you are confident that we can replace Stratton's productivity, but you basically doubt that we will improve at the plate this year? That's pretty funny really, because the inverse is much more likely.

We will be ranked better in both the other 2 major polls -- watch it happen. Had people arguing with me just 2 days ago that OM wouldn't be ranked in the preseason -- They will be ranked higher in the other polls as well.

Have you read my posts? I think we will improve as most players do in college ball besides Frost. My only point is that it is my opinion that you need to prove yourself to be worthy in a poll. My discussion is about polls not what I think of our team. I said I think we win 37 with 17 SEC wins. An improvement on last season especially given the schedule. Also we host. But based on last year I dont think we deserve a top ten preseason poll spot. Thats all.
 

coach66

Junior
Mar 5, 2009
12,681
291
83
Once football is set they will first address

The metal bleachers and go from there, it's coming.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
You think we are overrated -- I think we are underrated based on who is ranked above us and what they lost from last year. Pretty simple really. My expectation is to host a regional. I also think we've got a good chance to be a very special team if the pitching staff develops like I expect them to.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,389
25,597
113
Hell, if we'd even finished 2nd in the Tallahassee regional, we'd be ranked higher. SwingAway is right. There are a lot of questions about the offense. We did lose a couple of really good pitchers, but overall the pitching should be as good as last year if not better. But if we're going to take the next step, at some point the offense is going to have to start producing. #13 is a reasonable preseason ranking for us. And a HUGE improvement over the last decade.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
You expect to be just as good or better on the hill than we were last year--when we were the #2 pitching staff in the country with a cumulative 2.58 ERA and 6th in K's? That's asinine. We can be very good on the hill, but it's damn near impossible to ever be that good again.

Yet, you doubt that we improve at the plate with all returning/healthy starters? "Alot of questions" really? Where? I see 7 good college hitters -- with offensive questionmarks @ C and 2B(with a badass frosh offensive catcher in the backup role). Actually some deserving backups too so that injuries aren't nearly as crippling. Of course, I followed closely this fall, so I would know all this. This is evolving into "let's question Cohen as a hitting coach" ever since Butch Thompson shut everyone's mouth on here -- although it's ignored how Cohen's first 3 teams hit and how the injury bug affected that last year.

Then again, I've given my expected offensive statistical numbers on here at least 5 times already -- they should be easy to find.

I leave you with this gem:
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,389
25,597
113
All of those teams have a lot more record of winning, and winning big, in the last 10 years than we do. Not saying any of them are necessarily better than us this year, but it's easy to see why they're all ranked higher than us preseason. We managed to finish 3rd behind Samford in a regional last year. I'm sure that didn't impress any of the voters.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,389
25,597
113
Yeah, I doubt we do better on the hill this year, but we'll be very good. Offensively, we still have a lot to prove. I'm not down on this team at all. I'm more excited about MSU baseball than I've been since we rehired Polk. If we finish as the 13th best team in the country that will be a tremendous season for us. We'd likely host our first regional in a decade. And I'm not saying we can't do better than 13th. Just that we still have to show it on the field. And offensively, we haven't. Even in Cohen's first 3 years, although they were a good bit better than last year.
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
Yeah, I doubt we do better on the hill this year, but we'll be very good. Offensively, we still have a lot to prove. I'm not down on this team at all. I'm more excited about MSU baseball than I've been since we rehired Polk. If we finish as the 13th best team in the country that will be a tremendous season for us. We'd likely host our first regional in a decade. And I'm not saying we can't do better than 13th. Just that we still have to show it on the field. And offensively, we haven't. Even in Cohen's first 3 years, although they were a good bit better than last year.

This. Our offense has to go out there and get it done. At this point everyone other than Frazier is potential and speculation. Nobody else got it done besides AF last year and while we can project improvement across the board, we have to earn it first. These are the question marks because they have yet to be answered.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
My two cents on the hitting

Yeah, I doubt we do better on the hill this year, but we'll be very good. Offensively, we still have a lot to prove. I'm not down on this team at all. I'm more excited about MSU baseball than I've been since we rehired Polk. If we finish as the 13th best team in the country that will be a tremendous season for us. We'd likely host our first regional in a decade. And I'm not saying we can't do better than 13th. Just that we still have to show it on the field. And offensively, we haven't. Even in Cohen's first 3 years, although they were a good bit better than last year.

Cohen in year one- Polk's guys.

Year two- Polk's guys and JUCO guys.

Year three- JUCO guys, some freshmen, and a couple of Polk's guys.

Year four- Cohen's guys as sophomores and with injuries.

Learning to hit is a process. I know you and everyone else knows how hard it is to hit- being successful 30% of the time is considered good. It's even more difficult when you have inexperience and you are facing pitchers that throw in the high 80's, low 90's with movement and can throw breaking pitches for strikes and can locate. These guys don't see that in high school in any state and it's a big adjustment. Add in some injuries, and it makes it more difficult. However, that said- with experience normally comes more success. And yes- there are exceptions to both. You have guys like Jeffrey Rea that come in able to hit and you have guys that sometimes get worse for whatever reason. But normally- players get better.

The first four sentences, I mentioned that because this is the first group of players that are Cohen's players that were recruited from high school hat are also now upper classmen. Polk's guys had some power and some of them hit pretty well- but they lacked speed and that hamstrung us a little bit. Sort of like Dan with a drop back passing QB. JUCO guys- we did pretty well, but they are JUCO for a reason. It's hard to build a SEC team out of JUCO players and be a really good hitting or pitching team as the case may be. We did about as well as you could reasonably expect. Last year, we were a young team offensively and I expected us to have stretches where we struggled, and others where we showed promise. What I didn't expect was us to be decimated injuries and that totally changed our approach. We are actually very fortunate guys like Norris and Rea were able to play as much as they did. I saw a game where Norris was out there and he could barely walk. I've got to give him some props for that.

Also- we lost Lane Burroughs as a hitting coach. Yes, Cohen is really the hitting coach, but while Lane was a very good recruiter, he was not a great coach. I know a lot of people may not like the hiring of Mingione, but he may be a better coach as far as assisting Cohen- and that may help us out as well. We will see. We'll also see what Jake Wells brings to the table. I have been pretty impressed with Mingione as a recruiter thus far, though.

And as far as Vandy and LSU- Vandy recently lost their pitching coach Derek Johnson, to the Cubs a month or two ago. They also lost their hitting coach to Oklahoma State as their head coach. That is going to affect them. LSU fans are already kind of skeptical of Manieri right now after the Stony Brook debacle. There's a lot of pressure around that program at the moment. We'll see how that affects them this year. Arkansas is in good shape.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
This. Our offense has to go out there and get it done. At this point everyone other than Frazier is potential and speculation. Nobody else got it done besides AF last year and while we can project improvement across the board, we have to earn it first. These are the question marks because they have yet to be answered.

CT's freshman All-American campaign doesn't count?

Typical college baseball development (esp when healthy) says that we will be greatly improved at the plate this year. Plus, we've got 5 or 6 backups that CAN step in and get it done if the starters aren't. Most total depth I remember an MSU team having in a very long time.

Overall, this team hits around .280 with 35 ish HR and a .770ish OPS. Last year we hit .251 with 21 HR and a .691 OPS.
 
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SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
CT's freshman All-American campaign doesn't count?

Typical college baseball development (esp when healthy) says that we will be greatly improved at the plate this year. Plus, we've got 5 or 6 backups that CAN step in and get it done if the starters aren't. Most total depth I remember an MSU team having in a very long time.

Overall, this team hits around .280 with 35 ish HR and a .770ish OPS. Last year we hit .251 with 21 HR and a .691 OPS.

I agree with you on the numbers and generally predict the exact season as you. Sure CTs first year counts, just like last season. I've been waiting 2 years for Josh Hamilton Renfroe to emerge. I believe CT will bounce back and Renfroe puts it together and Wes gets his too But I Have To See It First to justify any higher ranking which is basically the argument in this thread. Do I think we will? Yes. Have we proven it yet? No. When we do we'll jump up in the polls. Right now based on hard evidence we are right where we should be.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
You get judged by what you do in the regular season. Or at least you should. The best teams are proven over 55 games, and they host regionals 9 out of 10 times (I realize there is sometimes unfairness, but let's concentrate on big picture here). The postseason is MOST volatile in college baseball, in my opinion. Anything can and does happen. Fresno State, what the ****? Now, granted, you do have to have a pulse to get lucky like that (Stony Brook comes to mind, loaded with Srs.), but still very unpredictable. No way Vanderbilt with all those MLB picks on their team in 2007 should theoretically get beat at home. That's baseball, in essence.

But I do think we're underrated. And most of the other well-known baseball gurus feel the same way.
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
11,099
746
113
And I don't want to carry on too much about Stratton...

Peculiar, we've done enough **** to make you believe we will host a regional, but not any higher preseason ranking. What the 17 do you think rankings are for? We lost a great pitcher. So did other teams. Rarely do top teams return the same starting lineup and staff. CT Rea and Norris will provide the production that you expect. Those pitchers will make up (somewhat) for losing Stratton, but then again, one is going to have to be the man. If you believe that, why the hell do you think preseason rankings are about 'earning' anything but being the basis for expectations?I dont have a prediction on this year as far as wins and losses, but I did ask Thomas Berkery who coaches my kids at the swing in Starkville. He said we have the talent to be very good. But the idea that that will translate into any certain amount of wins and losses is not really predictable because the game of baseball isnt. There are just too many teams, like the one that ended our season last year, that have potential for greatness that nobody ever recognizes preseason. No, we havent earned anything of significance. But we have gained the attention of those who watch college baseball.
yes, he had a great year last year, but people forget about the terrible year he had the year before. You know, the year we were 6 outs from the CWS. I just don't put as much stock in losing Stratton as some because I have a lot of confidence that we have MUCH more overall pitching talent than we've ever had under Cohen and between guys like Graveman, Woodruff, Lindgren, Mitchell, etc. somebody will make a step up and be pretty dominant. Who knows, maybe a couple of those guys will end up being dominant. And even if we don't have one guy this year as good as Stratton was last year it will likely be made up by having a better offense this year. We have a LOT of guys back in the lineup this year that had their first real go around in college baseball last year (Rea, Britton, Henderson, Slaughter, Porter, etc.) and then when you add back in a healthy CT and Norris plus a more experienced Renfroe and some JUCO transfers and true freshmen (especially the Canadiens) to help out then I just can't see the offense being anything but significantly better than last year. That should put much less pressure on the pitching staff and make us a better rounded team. I'm hearing Robson is the real deal and could end up starting and is the fastest guy on the team. Would be nice to have 2 guys as fast as CT and Robson patrolling the outfield for us.