current events thread

[ILisBest]

Yes, Nancy Pelosi spent months whipping idiots into a frenzy with lies about election theft and then meandered down to near the Capitol to let those people know to be heard over at the House as soon as possible. Ole Nance ... she really knows how to fire 'em up.

You guys lying to yourselves because you are so desperate to be on the team of "political purity" is comical. It's ironic, I don't care much about purity, but I do care a lot about the greatest nation on Earth having the leadership such a nation deserves. Trump ain't that (understatement of the century).

Trump was (quite obviously) morally culpable for the events of 1-6-21. I agree that he did not instruct folks to attack the Capitol, because I only deal in reality and we know his words. The best argument to absolve him is that lots of people - not just Trump fans - were being driven nuts by the pandemic (all aspects of it), and that all the rioting across America in the last 12 months of the pandemic were more about the situation created by Covid than they were about George Floyd or Trump (I'm open to this argument).

Even if one disagrees with me, there was nothing stopping Trump from begging his denizens to stop with the insanity once it began. He barely did anything, presumably thrilled that a deeply unwell group of cultists were actually attacking the Capitol on his behalf. It says a lot bad about huge chunks of our country that this guy was returned to office, my solution is to end primaries and let the next round of Trumps run as independents (if people want that, they can still vote it in).

The argument is he didn't give any specific instructions for anyone to breach the capital, let alone break any laws inside of it. He literally told them to peacefully protest. Meanwhile the person in charge of capital security says it was her fault for all of the trespassing. We should ignore all of that, well.. because. OK.

No one cares less than you about the greatest nation on earth because they don't connect dots that are not there. OK. It is not illegal or a threat to our country to request a peaceful protest.

The leftwing media ginned this up into something it was not, but like the Russia hoax they played it nonstop to win support for evidence that does not exist.

Honestly, I find it amazing any US citizen would vote for WordSalad after her and Joetato had a woeful 4 years. In her own words, she wouldn't do anything different than Joetato did and he wasn't even coherent.

Trump has been better than I expected this term and better than his first term in general imo.

 

[ILisBest]

 

[dtrain79]

The argument is he didn't give any specific instructions for anyone to breach the capital, let alone break any laws inside of it. He literally told them to peacefully protest. Meanwhile the person in charge of capital security says it was her fault for all of the trespassing. We should ignore all of that, well.. because. OK.

No one cares less than you about the greatest nation on earth because they don't connect dots that are not there. OK. It is not illegal or a threat to our country to request a peaceful protest.

The leftwing media ginned this up into something it was not, but like the Russia hoax they played it nonstop to win support for evidence that does not exist.

Honestly, I find it amazing any US citizen would vote for WordSalad after her and Joetato had a woeful 4 years. In her own words, she wouldn't do anything different than Joetato did and he wasn't even coherent.

Trump has been better than I expected this term and better than his first term in general imo.

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

 

[tjfleck6]

I'll assume the veracity of that because I don't have a ton of interest in Trump personally and get weary when every topic of discussion is hauled back to him, but if he maintained that the material was still classified at the moment Biden was inaugurated (and presumably remained so thereafter) then it would probably become a twofold issue of whether a) the material was disclosed to unauthorized persons and b) whether the material was stored in a way such that it couldn't be accessed by unauthorized individuals. If a) was the case I'd think even a former POTUS would potentially be in legal jeopardy. If the issue is only with b) in the sense the material was not stored in an approved manner then it would generally be more of an administrative thing. At this point Doug and tj probably have more expertise/relevant experience than I do.

(I realize there's more to that case w/Trump than just his possession of a document/documents, namely his alleged noncooperation in the matter, and I suppose also that his clearance was revoked by Biden at some point in the timeline. Maybe it will get litigated one day.)

But I still stand by what I initially said that only a POTUS can spontaneously declassify something, and I believe that because I saw it happen and got an explanation from officials whose position in the gov't was to enforce laws and regulations pertaining to formally classified information per the EO (forget the number) that lays out the basis for the classification system. I don't see how whether or not a POTUS did or didn't decide something was unclassified before he left office has any bearing on Bolton's situation. The topic before it got hijacked followed from someone sharing an X posting that claimed Bolton was being looked at for a pattern of "stealing" classified information and leaking it. Probably mostly BS, but maybe not. We'll see what happens. Either he did or he didn't, and since he was never POTUS, he never had the authority to do what I watched a president prior to Trump do, making it considerably more black-and-white in the event some evidence against him exists.

Maralago has a SCIF and the president always had SS level security. What he possessed is in the gray area since he was President until the 2020 election was stolen. Hell, he was likely the legit president if not for 81M mysterious votes for a complete loser.

What is not gray is VP Biden’s non-SCIF level garage. It is not gray that VP/Senator Biden had cleared documents in many personal spaces. It is highly illegal, period, and any cleared individual would be in heaps of trouble, fined, and likely jailed.

But, train has a substack influencer who says Trump is guilty. So there is that.

 

[tjfleck6]

Okay, that is not something we ever encountered. And again, in the case I'm familiar with, the information was never formally declassified, even after POTUS released it. When you get way down in the weeds of what I used to do, it's a contractual matter, and we had to continue to treat the information as classified even after it became public knowledge (that happens more than you'd think) because the information was never downgraded in a formal way that we could legally respond to. And a point that's meaningless but somewhat interesting is that there are avenues for declassified or never classified information to remain withheld from the public.

Yep, it’s gray what Trump declassified and it’s gray how a POTUS can declassify stuff. Formal announcements seem problematic. I recall a POTUS revealing deeply classified info wrt to the Bin Laden strike. Obama had the authority to do it.

I’ve seen public information which is classsified and as noted, just because it became public somewhere doesn’t mean it isn’t still classified! It creates a real mess which requires extensive cleaning for anyone referencing it. I’ve had DTrain level smart people do just such a thing. Freaking took months to clean up those who thought rules didn’t apply to them.

Regardless, the law is clear for every cleared individual with the exception of presidents. Can they “think” it declassified?

 

[tjfleck6]

There is no man made climate change. Biden had us in the Paris Climate Agreement. Are you too young to remember “the science is settled”? Trump signed an EO removing us from this nonsense that is nothing more than scam wealth transfer. Did I call you out with this post? Yes or no? It was a no, but since you messed with the bull, you’re gonna get the horns. Liking a post is not 100% endorsement. djpc just made a lengthy post, which was worth reading. I did not agree with his post 100%, but felt it was a solid post of which I will add a like with regularity.

As for your martyrdom for stating the obvious that man can impact his environment, what have the environuts done and not just with forestry and proper maintenance of the floor? They stopped nuclear plants, they stopped pipelines. They have tried to force wind and solar despite how damaging these methods of energy are. They will never get the US to net zero, nor are they environmentally friendly. In fact the wind turbines are a disaster when they are taken out of commission and bad solar panels are also an environmental hazard in disposal. Let’s forget all the harm solar farms cause when active. Not only do they remove large acreage from plants scrubbing CO2, but also are quite unfriendly to animals. On land wind turbines kill birds. In the ocean they are toxic to sea life. Trump admin has paused all wind turbine farm projects on the ocean. I voted for that. What did you do? You voted “present” like Obama. Where would we be with these issues of the climate change scam on the world stage should Harris have won the election? This article may cut you a bit, but you should know that we haven’t defeated the climate change scam yet.

NKU environmental experts weigh in on Trump decision to exit Paris Climate Accord

When President Donald Trump signed an executive order withdrawing the U.S. from the Paris Climate Agreement, it came with a lot of disappointment and loss of hope. “It’s disappointing for everyday people. It’s sad for the world, for species, for habitats and for folks that live in the middle of...

www.thenortherner.com

edited for grammar

And I didn’t make up 9 degrees warmer for urban heat islands - studies arrived at that number and it seems very reasonable to me based on experience. The climate scam is BS and Rill is going in circles as usual refusing to take a position.

High marks for not taking a firm position though.

 

[djpc]

Maralago has a SCIF and the president always had SS level security. What he possessed is in the gray area since he was President until the 2020 election was stolen. Hell, he was likely the legit president if not for 81M mysterious votes for a complete loser.

What is not gray is VP Biden’s non-SCIF level garage. It is not gray that VP/Senator Biden had cleared documents in many personal spaces. It is highly illegal, period, and any cleared individual would be in heaps of trouble, fined, and likely jailed.

But, train has a substack influencer who says Trump is guilty. So there is that.

I didn't know that, though in hindsight it makes sense. So at least whatever he had presumably wasn't sitting around in a box somewhere (or his wife's dainties drawer) a random person could stumble across it. Maybe that gray area will get litigated some day.

 

[dtrain79]

Yep, it’s gray what Trump declassified and it’s gray how a POTUS can declassify stuff. Formal announcements seem problematic. I recall a POTUS revealing deeply classified info wrt to the Bin Laden strike. Obama had the authority to do it.

I’ve seen public information which is classsified and as noted, just because it became public somewhere doesn’t mean it isn’t still classified! It creates a real mess which requires extensive cleaning for anyone referencing it. I’ve had DTrain level smart people do just such a thing. Freaking took months to clean up those who thought rules didn’t apply to them.

Regardless, the law is clear for every cleared individual with the exception of presidents. Can they “think” it declassified?

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

 

[tjfleck6]

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

I don’t like the fact that Obama had so much stuff either, but apparently it was legal for him (and others).

For every non presidential clearance holder it is black and white which is the way it should be.

This is one of my favorites.

https://www.cato.org/blog/sandy-berger-oops-i-must-have-accidentally-stuck-wrong-papers-briefcase-hidden-them-under

 

[tjfleck6]

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

Trump was 2 miles away speaking when he Feds led the break in, so there goes the ginning up support narrative. This protest / rally was planned well in advance and the Democrats nixed the security intentionally. Nancy with the film crew, rejection of the Guard, and a slew of unarmed “rioters“ in the most well armed country on Earth should make you question the MSM narrative. Alas, you didn’t.

 

[tjfleck6]

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

One CIA head to his death had security with him (believe he had dementia) due to the wealth of knowledge he possessed. No Men In Black stuff to be used here. Frankly, Obama, Trump, Clinton, and Bush know plenty so documents are really the least of my concerns. Biden isn’t really a concern to me as he wasn’t privy to much the last 4 years.

And the can he think it declassified is something I heard without an answer. It is truly gray.