current events thread

[ILisBest]

Yes, Nancy Pelosi spent months whipping idiots into a frenzy with lies about election theft and then meandered down to near the Capitol to let those people know to be heard over at the House as soon as possible. Ole Nance ... she really knows how to fire 'em up.

You guys lying to yourselves because you are so desperate to be on the team of "political purity" is comical. It's ironic, I don't care much about purity, but I do care a lot about the greatest nation on Earth having the leadership such a nation deserves. Trump ain't that (understatement of the century).

Trump was (quite obviously) morally culpable for the events of 1-6-21. I agree that he did not instruct folks to attack the Capitol, because I only deal in reality and we know his words. The best argument to absolve him is that lots of people - not just Trump fans - were being driven nuts by the pandemic (all aspects of it), and that all the rioting across America in the last 12 months of the pandemic were more about the situation created by Covid than they were about George Floyd or Trump (I'm open to this argument).

Even if one disagrees with me, there was nothing stopping Trump from begging his denizens to stop with the insanity once it began. He barely did anything, presumably thrilled that a deeply unwell group of cultists were actually attacking the Capitol on his behalf. It says a lot bad about huge chunks of our country that this guy was returned to office, my solution is to end primaries and let the next round of Trumps run as independents (if people want that, they can still vote it in).

The argument is he didn't give any specific instructions for anyone to breach the capital, let alone break any laws inside of it. He literally told them to peacefully protest. Meanwhile the person in charge of capital security says it was her fault for all of the trespassing. We should ignore all of that, well.. because. OK.

No one cares less than you about the greatest nation on earth because they don't connect dots that are not there. OK. It is not illegal or a threat to our country to request a peaceful protest.

The leftwing media ginned this up into something it was not, but like the Russia hoax they played it nonstop to win support for evidence that does not exist.

Honestly, I find it amazing any US citizen would vote for WordSalad after her and Joetato had a woeful 4 years. In her own words, she wouldn't do anything different than Joetato did and he wasn't even coherent.

Trump has been better than I expected this term and better than his first term in general imo.

 

[ILisBest]

 

[dtrain79]

The argument is he didn't give any specific instructions for anyone to breach the capital, let alone break any laws inside of it. He literally told them to peacefully protest. Meanwhile the person in charge of capital security says it was her fault for all of the trespassing. We should ignore all of that, well.. because. OK.

No one cares less than you about the greatest nation on earth because they don't connect dots that are not there. OK. It is not illegal or a threat to our country to request a peaceful protest.

The leftwing media ginned this up into something it was not, but like the Russia hoax they played it nonstop to win support for evidence that does not exist.

Honestly, I find it amazing any US citizen would vote for WordSalad after her and Joetato had a woeful 4 years. In her own words, she wouldn't do anything different than Joetato did and he wasn't even coherent.

Trump has been better than I expected this term and better than his first term in general imo.

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

 

[tjfleck6]

I'll assume the veracity of that because I don't have a ton of interest in Trump personally and get weary when every topic of discussion is hauled back to him, but if he maintained that the material was still classified at the moment Biden was inaugurated (and presumably remained so thereafter) then it would probably become a twofold issue of whether a) the material was disclosed to unauthorized persons and b) whether the material was stored in a way such that it couldn't be accessed by unauthorized individuals. If a) was the case I'd think even a former POTUS would potentially be in legal jeopardy. If the issue is only with b) in the sense the material was not stored in an approved manner then it would generally be more of an administrative thing. At this point Doug and tj probably have more expertise/relevant experience than I do.

(I realize there's more to that case w/Trump than just his possession of a document/documents, namely his alleged noncooperation in the matter, and I suppose also that his clearance was revoked by Biden at some point in the timeline. Maybe it will get litigated one day.)

But I still stand by what I initially said that only a POTUS can spontaneously declassify something, and I believe that because I saw it happen and got an explanation from officials whose position in the gov't was to enforce laws and regulations pertaining to formally classified information per the EO (forget the number) that lays out the basis for the classification system. I don't see how whether or not a POTUS did or didn't decide something was unclassified before he left office has any bearing on Bolton's situation. The topic before it got hijacked followed from someone sharing an X posting that claimed Bolton was being looked at for a pattern of "stealing" classified information and leaking it. Probably mostly BS, but maybe not. We'll see what happens. Either he did or he didn't, and since he was never POTUS, he never had the authority to do what I watched a president prior to Trump do, making it considerably more black-and-white in the event some evidence against him exists.

Maralago has a SCIF and the president always had SS level security. What he possessed is in the gray area since he was President until the 2020 election was stolen. Hell, he was likely the legit president if not for 81M mysterious votes for a complete loser.

What is not gray is VP Biden’s non-SCIF level garage. It is not gray that VP/Senator Biden had cleared documents in many personal spaces. It is highly illegal, period, and any cleared individual would be in heaps of trouble, fined, and likely jailed.

But, train has a substack influencer who says Trump is guilty. So there is that.

 

[tjfleck6]

Okay, that is not something we ever encountered. And again, in the case I'm familiar with, the information was never formally declassified, even after POTUS released it. When you get way down in the weeds of what I used to do, it's a contractual matter, and we had to continue to treat the information as classified even after it became public knowledge (that happens more than you'd think) because the information was never downgraded in a formal way that we could legally respond to. And a point that's meaningless but somewhat interesting is that there are avenues for declassified or never classified information to remain withheld from the public.

Yep, it’s gray what Trump declassified and it’s gray how a POTUS can declassify stuff. Formal announcements seem problematic. I recall a POTUS revealing deeply classified info wrt to the Bin Laden strike. Obama had the authority to do it.

I’ve seen public information which is classsified and as noted, just because it became public somewhere doesn’t mean it isn’t still classified! It creates a real mess which requires extensive cleaning for anyone referencing it. I’ve had DTrain level smart people do just such a thing. Freaking took months to clean up those who thought rules didn’t apply to them.

Regardless, the law is clear for every cleared individual with the exception of presidents. Can they “think” it declassified?

 

[tjfleck6]

There is no man made climate change. Biden had us in the Paris Climate Agreement. Are you too young to remember “the science is settled”? Trump signed an EO removing us from this nonsense that is nothing more than scam wealth transfer. Did I call you out with this post? Yes or no? It was a no, but since you messed with the bull, you’re gonna get the horns. Liking a post is not 100% endorsement. djpc just made a lengthy post, which was worth reading. I did not agree with his post 100%, but felt it was a solid post of which I will add a like with regularity.

As for your martyrdom for stating the obvious that man can impact his environment, what have the environuts done and not just with forestry and proper maintenance of the floor? They stopped nuclear plants, they stopped pipelines. They have tried to force wind and solar despite how damaging these methods of energy are. They will never get the US to net zero, nor are they environmentally friendly. In fact the wind turbines are a disaster when they are taken out of commission and bad solar panels are also an environmental hazard in disposal. Let’s forget all the harm solar farms cause when active. Not only do they remove large acreage from plants scrubbing CO2, but also are quite unfriendly to animals. On land wind turbines kill birds. In the ocean they are toxic to sea life. Trump admin has paused all wind turbine farm projects on the ocean. I voted for that. What did you do? You voted “present” like Obama. Where would we be with these issues of the climate change scam on the world stage should Harris have won the election? This article may cut you a bit, but you should know that we haven’t defeated the climate change scam yet.

NKU environmental experts weigh in on Trump decision to exit Paris Climate Accord

When President Donald Trump signed an executive order withdrawing the U.S. from the Paris Climate Agreement, it came with a lot of disappointment and loss of hope. “It’s disappointing for everyday people. It’s sad for the world, for species, for habitats and for folks that live in the middle of...

www.thenortherner.com

edited for grammar

And I didn’t make up 9 degrees warmer for urban heat islands - studies arrived at that number and it seems very reasonable to me based on experience. The climate scam is BS and Rill is going in circles as usual refusing to take a position.

High marks for not taking a firm position though.

 

[djpc]

Maralago has a SCIF and the president always had SS level security. What he possessed is in the gray area since he was President until the 2020 election was stolen. Hell, he was likely the legit president if not for 81M mysterious votes for a complete loser.

What is not gray is VP Biden’s non-SCIF level garage. It is not gray that VP/Senator Biden had cleared documents in many personal spaces. It is highly illegal, period, and any cleared individual would be in heaps of trouble, fined, and likely jailed.

But, train has a substack influencer who says Trump is guilty. So there is that.

I didn't know that, though in hindsight it makes sense. So at least whatever he had presumably wasn't sitting around in a box somewhere (or his wife's dainties drawer) a random person could stumble across it. Maybe that gray area will get litigated some day.

 

[dtrain79]

Yep, it’s gray what Trump declassified and it’s gray how a POTUS can declassify stuff. Formal announcements seem problematic. I recall a POTUS revealing deeply classified info wrt to the Bin Laden strike. Obama had the authority to do it.

I’ve seen public information which is classsified and as noted, just because it became public somewhere doesn’t mean it isn’t still classified! It creates a real mess which requires extensive cleaning for anyone referencing it. I’ve had DTrain level smart people do just such a thing. Freaking took months to clean up those who thought rules didn’t apply to them.

Regardless, the law is clear for every cleared individual with the exception of presidents. Can they “think” it declassified?

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

 

[tjfleck6]

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

I don’t like the fact that Obama had so much stuff either, but apparently it was legal for him (and others).

For every non presidential clearance holder it is black and white which is the way it should be.

This is one of my favorites.

https://www.cato.org/blog/sandy-berger-oops-i-must-have-accidentally-stuck-wrong-papers-briefcase-hidden-them-under

 

[tjfleck6]

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

Trump was 2 miles away speaking when he Feds led the break in, so there goes the ginning up support narrative. This protest / rally was planned well in advance and the Democrats nixed the security intentionally. Nancy with the film crew, rejection of the Guard, and a slew of unarmed “rioters“ in the most well armed country on Earth should make you question the MSM narrative. Alas, you didn’t.

 

[tjfleck6]

Your last question on "thinking" it is actually theoretically interesting. There's a certain logic that the President can. But first, in a nation of actual written law, I don't think it works. And more practically, this would entitle any President to leave office with all of the most classified technological information without any possible consequence even if the Prez didn't declassify.

There's a fine and dandy argument that the document prosecutions (especially Trump) are mostly nonsense. Of course Trump treated the request for return as if it was something losing all reason about (the fake flood was really quite the ruse), which is probably most of the reason charges were filed. Validity is in the eye of the beholder, but I do think it was criminal conduct EVEN IF maybe it shouldn't be (for anyone in a similar spot).

One CIA head to his death had security with him (believe he had dementia) due to the wealth of knowledge he possessed. No Men In Black stuff to be used here. Frankly, Obama, Trump, Clinton, and Bush know plenty so documents are really the least of my concerns. Biden isn’t really a concern to me as he wasn’t privy to much the last 4 years.

And the can he think it declassified is something I heard without an answer. It is truly gray.

 

[stoneaxe27]

The argument is he didn't give any specific instructions for anyone to breach the capital, let alone break any laws inside of it. He literally told them to peacefully protest. Meanwhile the person in charge of capital security says it was her fault for all of the trespassing. We should ignore all of that, well.. because. OK.

No one cares less than you about the greatest nation on earth because they don't connect dots that are not there. OK. It is not illegal or a threat to our country to request a peaceful protest.

The leftwing media ginned this up into something it was not, but like the Russia hoax they played it nonstop to win support for evidence that does not exist.

Honestly, I find it amazing any US citizen would vote for WordSalad after her and Joetato had a woeful 4 years. In her own words, she wouldn't do anything different than Joetato did and he wasn't even coherent.

Trump has been better than I expected this term and better than his first term in general imo.

I am sorry you are delusional.

 

[stoneaxe27]

I didn't know that, though in hindsight it makes sense. So at least whatever he had presumably wasn't sitting around in a box somewhere (or his wife's dainties drawer) a random person could stumble across it. Maybe that gray area will get litigated some day.

I wasn’t aware of them being in an SCIF either, I had imagined they were in a bath room or on a stage.

 

[ILisBest]

I am sorry you are delusional.

Delusion is more for those that know what Trump actually said and make the leap anyhow. Kudos!

 

[ILisBest]

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

Nowhere in my post did I indict Capitol Police. I referenced capital security. Based on the pure numbers coming to his rally, Nancy should have had the NG there. The reason I do not love rallies/ protests is things can go wrong that are not intended. Nancy knew this which is why she admitted responsibility. She literally confesses it was her fault.

You have forgotten more about the law than I will ever know, but I am baffled that you ignore the actual evidence of what was said by Trump prior to and Pelosi during the event while convicting him of treason.

 

[ILisBest]

Cancer sucks, but this dad is amazing

 

[rillaman]

I'm not sure who is more obsessed with the term "climate change". Any living thing will impact local conditions. There are some very interesting examples where areas that desertified after human modification have been restored by subsequent human effort and remarkable things happen. local temperatures decrease, rain increases, long dried streams flow year around again, soil recovers. Is that climate change, or ecological change?

I agree with much of what you posted. I think it is climate change when it includes "human modification". You're right, we have seen that we can majorly impact the environment.

I think the main issue is whether the activity by humans are significant enough in the aggregate that they can compete with the larger forces that drive climate to be considered drivers of climate themselves. And maybe it also depends on what someone means when they use the term 'climate'.

Yes, I think that is fair. But again, we have seen that humans can drastically impact the landscape of Earth. Doing that over and over again, with billions of people, we have to have some impact, right? Now, are we the main driver? No, I don't think so. But believing we don't impact the climate seems odd too.

There's a wide gulf between the what I consider extreme view that the world is teetering on the brink of utter catastrophe that can only be avoided if we surrender most or all of our liberty to those who know what's best for us and the equally extreme view that nothing humans do affects anything. I'm not sure why anyone who does not buy in 100% to one extreme gets automatically bucketed in the other extreme every time the topic comes up, other than it's generally used as a proxy battle between political ideology camps.

I'm not bucketing you, but some of the people on here make it easy to put them in that bucket. They seem to have no awareness. TJ told me that the Everglades never floods. BW doesn't think we have any impact at all because the atmosphere is so large. Recently people have said we don't have an impact on temperature but now acknowledge we increase it by 9%. They acknowledge that, but think it has no impact on the climate around them.

We had a handful of people celebrating building holding facilities in the middle of a swamp, and mocked me when I said it was stupid to build there. It's difficult to have conversations with people that have no common sense. You are not one of the people I am talking about, I'm guessing we would hold similar views on this topic.

 

[Uncoach]

This line of posts this X account is doing for Newsom is completely disingenuous. Every one of the cities they compare are also run/been run down by Democrat mayors. This retweet with quote by Scarborough is especially egregious. Mike Johnson doesn’t represent Monroe.

 

[stoneaxe27]

Nowhere in my post did I indict Capitol Police. I referenced capital security. Based on the pure numbers coming to his rally, Nancy should have had the NG there. The reason I do not love rallies/ protests is things can go wrong that are not intended. Nancy knew this which is why she admitted responsibility. She literally confesses it was her fault.

You have forgotten more about the law than I will ever know, but I am baffled that you ignore the actual evidence of what was said by Trump prior to and Pelosi during the event while convicting him of treason.

You and BIGWILL have repeatedly taken Pelosi out of context. She had no control over the National Guard, did not turn down the Guard, Trump never ordered 20,000 Guardmen, the delay was caused by the Pentagon refusing to send Guard as they were concerned how it would look. It was Michael Flynn's brother at fault at Pentagon. All indisputable. You and BIG keep blaming Pelosi.

 

[Uncoach]

LOL. This is all Dems have.

 

[Uncoach]

Placeholder

 

[ILisBest]

You and BIGWILL have repeatedly taken Pelosi out of context. She had no control over the National Guard, did not turn down the Guard, Trump never ordered 20,000 Guardmen, the delay was caused by the Pentagon refusing to send Guard as they were concerned how it would look. It was Michael Flynn's brother at fault at Pentagon. All indisputable. You and BIG keep blaming Pelosi.

Um, Pelosi blames Pelosi.

 

[dtrain79]

Nowhere in my post did I indict Capitol Police. I referenced capital security. Based on the pure numbers coming to his rally, Nancy should have had the NG there. The reason I do not love rallies/ protests is things can go wrong that are not intended. Nancy knew this which is why she admitted responsibility. She literally confesses it was her fault.

You have forgotten more about the law than I will ever know, but I am baffled that you ignore the actual evidence of what was said by Trump prior to and Pelosi during the event while convicting him of treason.

I'm going to try and respond to both you and TJ's takes on 1-6-21 here. First, at least there's some acknowledgment that things went tragically wrong. I blame Trump and the rioters ... you blame security. Blaming security sure seems like a deflection to me.

Let's talk about security and Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi - as Speaker - may have been responsible for security, but it was clearly not a matter about which she would handle actual details. The Capitol Police underestimated the threat from the Trump crowd (understandably so IMO), and thus didn't advise anyone to take the precautions that were ultimately needed to stop the riot. Not sure why the Capitol Police get a pass from you (I am actually sure why the RW media gives them a pass, because it has given public safety officers special status for reasons I'll never understand), but me personally I'm hard pressed to put much blame on the security forces when, last I checked, they weren't rioting.

As for Trump himself, he set the whole chain of events in motion, and then he riled up his shock troops prior to the attack. Did he think they'd riot at the Capitol? I actually don't think so. Was he happy (probably thrilled) they did? Damn right, and he did virtually nothing to reign it in when he of all people had considerable control over the cultists running wild. Trump is morally culpable for what happened, and I personally think the whole affair was treason. Do I think he'd be convicted of treason in a court of law? Well, I put his chances at a conviction in that hypothetical a bit higher than Bolton's, if you get my drift. I will never support a person who put his own personal interests above the peaceful transfer of power (and admittedly, I have concerns about how he will handle the next transition should Dems win, even if I don't anticipate Trump is capable of destroying the system).

The GOP overwhelmingly selected not to move on from the guy who lied for months about losing an election, set in place the conditions for a disaster, and then dithered when the disaster hit. I can't change the opinions of millions of Americans (hell I can't change the opinions of even one), but I can disassociate from their delusions. So I have.

You used to accuse people of being "sheeple." Now you are out there blaming Pelosi for the Capitol riot. Seems like you are right in the mix of the RW herd on that one. It's good to be independent. I laugh pretty regularly that I'm one of a very narrow band of Americans who was totally against the lockdowns and totally against Trump 2024. Now that is a small herd.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[djpc]

... I think it is climate change when it includes "human modification". You're right, we have seen that we can majorly impact the environment...

That's a small point where we might have a disagreement on terminology. The study of climate is something that grew out of geology and prior to the early 21st century was something that was measured on a scale that tracked the ebb and flow of glaciation and distant times when even the northernmost extents of Canada were temperate or perhaps even tropical and preceded humans by a long time. But that's really a matter of terminology. I think we both agree humans modify their environment, and I loosely think of climate as the integral of weather over very long time spans, so we certainly get scooped up in that integral, but weather we're contributing significantly is something I just don't know enough about to know.

 

[tjfleck6]

I wasn’t aware of them being in an SCIF either, I had imagined they were in a bath room or on a stage.

The SCIF is only 8 plus years old. Add on secret service protection for that entire time span and you need not worry about the safety of the information from a physical perspective.

This isn’t Bill Clinton keeping secret info in his socks drawer which by the way was ruled perfectly fine

 

[tjfleck6]

 

[dtrain79]

Deporting Abrego Garcia to Uganda might be a bit extreme ... but it's legal. Something similar to this is where we should have started, not finished.

Quite the drama for not much.

 

[tjfleck6]

Deporting Abrego Garcia to Uganda might be a bit extreme ... but it's legal. Something similar to this is where we should have started, not finished.

Quite the drama for not much.

I don’t consider it extreme to send him to his country the first go around.

Just so he isn’t in America - real garbage that Democrats continue to fight for keeping in America

 

[dtrain79]

I don’t consider it extreme to send him to his country the first go around.

Just so he isn’t in America - real garbage that Democrats continue to fight for keeping in America

The rule of law did not allow for that. It does appear that Republicans - once the party most concerned upholding it - continue to slip away from that on the premise of "fighting harder" than the Dems.

There was never a reason that a message couldn't be sent at the same time as the rule of law was abided by. Instead, six months of histrionics.

 

[BigWill]

I suppose you didn't read my post closely. First, I do agree that his words were not criminal. However his appearance jacked up a psychotic bunch of loons to go bananas. If Al Sharpton had given a pre-game pep talk to a huge crowd of Floyd rioters without calling for a riot, you'd be apoplectic. So would I. We both know it. And Sharpton wouldn't have laid the groundwork like Trump did, with months of lies about a lost election. Trump was fine, almost certainly happy, with the outcome. I think his behavior - culminating in the first effort to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power in American history, unless one also counts the Civil War - was treasonous. I'm good having opposed President Benedict Arnold even in favor of someone who would be a (garbage) President. (And in fairness, Rs would look very strong to take it back in 2026 and 2028, but that's a different matter in our closely divided country.)

I do think you are more tied to your vote than I am. I have an ideology. Considering how much I detest Trump, I recently took one of those tests wondering if maybe I'd changed or something. I couldn't have scripted the results better considering my ideological order went something like: (a) Capitalism; (b) Classical Liberalism; (c) GOP; and (d) Libertarian Conservatism. So I haven't changed a single iota politically, I just hate Trump's cult-like Republican Party (which we already knew).

I was all over Russiagate from the jump, so that argument doesn't apply to me. Trump's enemies have often been out of line.

Finally, "the police didn't stop the riot" isn't a substitute for "the police caused the riot." Sure, the Capitol Police failed that day. Would have been swell had they not been put in such a position.

You have a huge empty spot for US History !

The US Army, Commanded by MacArthur being sent into DC parks to destroy encampments and remove WW1 Veterans clamoring for their Congressional WW 1 bonuses.

Al Gore fighting the Bush election peaceful transfer of power comes to minds.

It is routine for Police Departments to schedule police to be on duty and available for quelling events. The Capital Police did NOT, with approx 50 % of the force on vacation or regular days off. Plus they opened up the steel barriers, waved protesters into the Capital and in some cases quietly escorted persons around the interior of the Building. (Remember the Viking fan ?)

We here are well aware of your TDS 3.0 animas, thank you for your service !

 

[dtrain79]

You have a huge empty spot for US History !

The US Army, Commanded by MacArthur being sent into DC parks to destroy encampments and remove WW1 Veterans clamoring for their Congressional WW 1 bonuses.

Al Gore fighting the Bush election peaceful transfer of power comes to minds.

It is routine for Police Departments to schedule police to be on duty and available for quelling events. The Capital Police did NOT, with approx 50 % of the force on vacation or regular days off. Plus they opened up the steel barriers, waved protesters into the Capital and in some cases quietly escorted persons around the interior of the Building. (Remember the Viking fan ?)

We here are well aware of your TDS 3.0 animas, thank you for your service !

What violence occurred during the Bush/Gore recount? I lived through that one.

The Veterans Army had nothing to do with an election. It was a protest against Hoover. Hoover lost the subsequent election and voluntarily ceded power.

The Trump riots sought to intervene in the count of Electoral votes proceeding that very day in the House and Senate. They intervened with the peaceful transition of power.

Old Fool Syndrome is all consuming, and you wear it well.

I really would like for you to stop making stupid arguments. Just ignore me, I'm simply going to mock every dumb response you serve up because you deserve nothing less.