Does anyone on here think Obamacare should remain unchanged?
- Thread starter DvlDog4WVU
- Start date
Nope, the Dems aren't playing ball. Let it crash, and then we'll pick up the pieces afterwards.
There are provisions in there that require purchase of pediatric dental insurance
Who on the GOP side "played ball" with Hillary's working group in 1993? Who "played ball" with the Democrats in 2009 when the ACA was being written? Hell, go back and read all the-sky-will-fall hyperventilating from the likes of Goldwater, Reagan, et al in 1964 when Medicare was first proposed.
My biggest gripe with the ACA was the lie about people who had coverage being allowed to keep it. Pure nanny statism at its worst to make people dump plans that were working for them and forcing them to get what the HHS thought was best for them.
STFU with the whining bs. You don't need a Dem vote. Get together and get your agenda passed. Stop blaming others all the time.
Oooooooh look who decided to butch up. You do see the folly in not getting involved into the process, correct? They are placing party over country because, as you said, the GOP can push it through without them. Would it not be a better position to work together and ensure something meaningful is done? Instead they are doing the very thing, the exact thing, you are getting all pissy pants'd about. The reality is ACA is gone whether by action or inaction, simply put, its unsustainable. The Dems have an opportunity to show they are bigger than partisan squabbles, but alas, they aren't any better than the GOP partisan hacks the left decries.
Bigger than partisan squabbles? Like making changes to the existing law instead of trying to repeal it just for spite? You want the party whose leader got this law passed as a legitimate attempt to address a major problem to "work" to destroy it? Jesus, STFU. Your Johnny badass facade works so much better when your not whining about the blinds when you have nearly double the stack of anyone else on the table. PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN PARTY ARENT VOTING FOR THE BILL!!! But let's blame the Democrats cause we can't get it done. Fvcking joke
Ummmm, I'm not in favor of the GOP bill sweetheart. I just want ACA repealed. I don't care about a replacement. I'm not in favor of universal healthcare, at all.
Glad you could point out the very obvious hypocrisy of the left. Thanks for that. As you said, they don't care about getting something that works. ACA sure doesn't. Though, as pointed out all through this thread, it's obvious ACA falls well short. They don't want to work with the GOP to make something beneficial for the American people. They want legacy. So, enjoy what ends up being passed, the Dems will own their share of this piece of **** through their own inaction.
Feel that sting? That's pride, fvcking with you.
No sting Johnny, just the sadness of knowing that the GOP fails on healthcare, blames the democrats, cashes in their leadership on the political capital of Obamacare failing, claims to be true leaders, claims to be smarter and better at policy - yet can't complete point one of their mighty President's proclaimed agenda.......and here's the sad part, not one of the loyalists will fault their own party for it.
Pelosi is a joke! Shumer? I honestly have no words. Obama needed to rethink many points of this law. He needed to establish a mandate that helped Dems get elected in 2010 and 2012 and 2014, but he failed in more ways than one. The Democratic Party is failing substantially right now. I have no problem admitting any of that. Here's the thing though, I know two hardcore Republicans who are using the ACA to get seriously needed medical attention right now, and another in rehab thanks to medicad.
All I hear is Obama Obama Obama, and how Obamacare is the worst legislation on the books right now. Fine. Kill it. Repeal it. Fix it. Replace it. But DO something. Otherwise, it's nothing but partisan politics at work. Dems aren't voting to repeal it, they might vote to fix it.....but that's not going to be on the table is it?
Passes the House, won't pass the Senate.....Trump gets to campaign whining again on how the Dems can't lead, and the faithful get their boogeyman for another 4 years.
Pride? Is that what's keeping the 4-5 GOP Senators from voting to replace? I could give a ****, really. I'm waiting for the agenda and leadership I heard soooo much about. So far I see a baby with a big ego blaming everyone else for his f ups. I see a wall being built (well it looks that way anyway) that MIGHT fix a lot of problems. A travel ban being implemented that MIGHT fix a problem. Agencies and programs being gutted, defense spending being increased.....but huge tax cuts proposed and more military action being almost a certainty. I see regulations being slashed. I see military autonomy.
Of all of what I see, if our budget is balanced I'll give the GOP props, if terrorism is curtailed over the next 4 I'll give the GOP props, if we don't have another massive financial crisis (like we did the last time your boys ran the show) I'll give the GOP props, if drug trafficking is filtered to a slow crawl after this wall is up I'll give the GOP props, if our infrastructure is even partly rebuilt without contributing to increased deficit and national debt I'll give the GOP props......a lot of ifs. Last time your boys didn't prove anything to me, but the fact they like war and that a President just has to talk tough to win people over.
I'm an independent. I vote democrat and green more than republican because I'm concerned about our environment and I believe in government programs to help transition people to better education and better opportunities. But I'll vote Republican is someone proves to me they can lead. Portman did great things with convicted felons, he won my vote.
Bullfukinshit. The GOP tried to work with Obama in 2009 and he shut them out and declared elections have consequences. Just stop rewriting history.
The current bill in the senate doesnt kill it, it fixes it. If 10 dems voted to support it, it would pass easily. Suggesting that the dems might work to fix it is kidding yourself.
Of course there are people using it. They signed up for it. Does that make it any more sustainable in the big picture? No. But thanks for trying to personalize tragedy for political gain. You sound like the rest of leftist cvnts.
Please! You're getting out of control with that desire to "root out" all bs left of center. My point was simply, it attempts to fix a problem Dems care about....getting proper healthcare for those that can't afford coverage. Republicans are using it too....not just the "evil" leftist free loaders. Chico
It fixes it? Then why doesn't the bill have the votes? And it replaces the ACA. It doesn't leave Obamacare in place with altercations. It's the GOP and Trump taking the credit for repealing and replacing......so do it then. Repeal it, replace it or don't, and stand by your leadership.
But GOP lawmakers can't repeal it without replacing it, because too many constituents would be angry over losing coverage (GOP voters). That's because the ACA attempted to fix a problem for many Americans. The GOP can't vote to replace it, because either they can't write legislation that the party can agree on, or they can't please their donors while doing it.
Either way, the loudmouth, self righteous loyalists will spend their time over the next 4 years blaming Obama for every hurdle they face in leading. Trump will win reelection, because the Dems best option is Oprah.....and the rightwing propaganda machine is very well tuned. I just wish at least some of the base would realize the actual lack of leadership and the corruption within the GOP. It seems like many of you do when you defend Trump, but then you only point your fingers at the left.
LOL, not whining. Don't own Obama's garbage. If the Dems want to play politics, let them. You own the craptastic legistlation, deal with it.
Hey, makes sense IF your GOP President didn't run on repealing and replacing it as point one. Wait....nah, still doesn't make sense. The Congress of the US has a job to do, and that is to implement the agenda of their voters. Just because you might receive political capital, it's ok to allow failure on your watch?
I never claimed that wasn't the case. You seem to think I'm on some crusade, I'm not. In fact, I'm not the one trying to make this a partisan issue. I'm speaking strategically about solving an issue. You've given me reasons on why the left won't get on board and it's grounded in partisanism.
Strategically speaking, the ACA is untenable for the country. From a partisan perspective, I understand why the left isn't coming to the table, I don't think anyone lacks of understanding of motive. Ditto for the right.
The ACA is gone, one way or another. It won't survive in its current form. The Dem strategy is to pronlong the death in the hopes of retaking the House and Senate in 18. I get it. Without the subsidies, which won't be made available, the exchanges are gone, hell, they're gone in a lot of states as it currently stands. I honestly think either you don't realize or you don't care how bad ACA is turning out to be. It was a noble effort grounded in lies that failed in both execution of stated goal and financially. Technically, it missed schedule to. So it's failed, budget, scope, and time. In essence, by any measure or programmatic principles, it failed. Why can't that be recognized? How many were without healthcare before it was innacted and how many are without now? Total numbers. Using a CBA, has it been worth it? The answer is a resounding no. Not for the impacts to the budget, not for the impacts to business, not for the impacts to consumer premiums, not for the impacts to people who had existing plans previously. It's a dogshit program. Cool, some people got coverage that didn't have it before. That's great. Some people had lifeboats on the Titanic as well, good thing they installed them, they just fell short of need, similar to ACA. The negatives far outweigh the positives.
Strategically, it's done. Pride is keeping the Dems from working bilaterally to fix the mess that was created. Same can be said for the right. What is to gain by the left not involving themselves? They are cutting off the nose to spite the face. It defies problem solving logic. The right's base doesn't give a **** if what is done fixes ACA, most of us just want it gone. Getting rid of it will suffice for us. The left has the most stake in the game. I just don't understand how that isn't recognized.
You're the one rewriting history. But I don't expect you to go back and read how it actually played out, so I'll highlight a few things for you:
following the adoption of an individual mandate, Republicans came to oppose the mandate and threatened to filibuster any bills that contained it. Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, who led the Republican congressional strategy in responding to the bill, calculated that Republicans should not support the bill, and worked to prevent defections
Republican Senators, including those who had supported previous bills with a similar mandate, began to describe the mandate as "unconstitutional"
The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it. The next day, Republicans introduced legislation to repeal the bill.
I definitely think there are parts to fix, it ain't exactly what Obama wanted but the senate changed some things after the house passed it. Bottom line is that the GOP has NEVER wanted universal healthcare for all and they have never been able to agree for that reason, as for the Dems making clear that bipartisan support off the table? lol, Mitch justid if we don't pass the senate version they would have to compromise with the Democrats, lol. Ya'll got all three branches, repeal the ****** like they said. Ha! If ya can't run a party ya can't run acountry
How do you think insurance works? You pay into a pool, and money is spent from that pool for the healthcare costs of everyone in it. I've never had a surgery or a hospital stay in 45 years on this planet. I have paid for that coverage none the less. I also paid property taxes that funded school systems for years before I had a kid that used those school systems.
I think Obamacare was an attempt to solve this at the insurance end, and that's a partial solution. You have to get the healthcare portion of this figured out too. A good starting point would have providers put out price lists. If you are a medical provider, you have to be able to tell people what something will cost up front, insured or not. What other service do you receive where you don't know the cost until weeks after the service was provided?
I have an extreme knowledge how healthcare works. I also know that the ACA was designed to fail so the arrogant dems could come to the rescue and install single payer with the government telling fools like the American public, what they could get and when they could use it. Eliminating choices was their design. It worked didn't it?
I would bet that you probably get it through an employer. I would also bet that you didn't suffer hours cut, or lost your job because of the ACA. It has cost me a lot so I'm against it. How much did your deductible go to to keep your premium something you could afford?
I agree, but I do feel like that is an unattainable goal. I mean, I guess you make a Chinese combo menu. "Hey doc, im having a pain in my abdomen"
Combo numba won: GI medicine and call me back if it doesn't work $x
Combo #2: partial exams consisting of x procedures etc (combo #1 cost + $x)
Combo #3: full month
That's about the only way I could see it. It's not going to see a mechanic, you can make a decision to not fix X and in the end you might just have to buy a new car. I guess you can choose to not fix something and then run the risk of dying.
I just posted an article where Dems are ready and willing to make adjustments to the existing law. But that's out of the question. It is partisan. Can't blame the losers for coming together in fear, and a collective attempt to throw some haymakers and get back into the fight. I can blame the Republicans for holding the majority....yet still painting the Dems as the reason their agenda doesn't get installed.
How many times do i need to acknowledge this? Are you incapable of pulling up a couple of 1000 feet and talk about this from a pure strategic discussion? You in effect are making this and wanting this to be partisan apparently.
They are not willing and I don't blame them. The people that vote blindly for them do not care about what socialism brings to the American public. Healthcare was another rivet in the coffin that has been the American dream.
From a strategic point, government run health care seems asinine to me. Would be woefully inefficient. I also think the thought of universal health care/single payer has been poisoned to the minds of nearly half the population, including a large number of people that rely on the government for said health insurance. I'm all for cutting off the old people (death panels) and letting people die in the streets, but I sense I am in the minority on that. So where do we go? The hybrid govt/free market Obamacare (and the new GOP plan) seems like an insurance giveaway that does nothing to lower actual health care costs. Are we going to nationalize the health care industry and just lie to the rubes? Create a payroll tax deduction to cover basic hospitalization coverage and then allow people of means to by private supplemental health insurance? We are getting older and sicker.
Is that the Meet the Beatles album? I had it but never kept it. Pretty sure it had a red inner part.
Since ACA, our life expectancy has decreased. That's the one thing that the ACA has accomplished.
A lot of good points. I disagree with your opinion of a single payer system. I personally don't know how our country can give fair and affordable coverage to all citizens without going that direction. Any hybrid which the ACA is or any of these other plans, the winners and losers are too impacted.
Somehow, we need to get politics reduced in finding a solution. That seems impossible. But the solution is something we don't fully know at the present and it will be revolutionary. But until this country can act mature and work together while realizing sacrifices are needed, we are stuck as a country.
For the record, I truly feel like there are only two options. 1. Single Payer, 2. The way it was before ACA. I'd prefer #2, but now it becomes a touchy feely, haves and have nots, defense vs non-defense spending. Frankly, there is never going to be an agreement on that. It seems people are unwilling to say what needs to be said to people without insurance: make better life decisions and that sadly, there are just have and have nots in life.
I agree, but then you still have people like me who will not vote for something that increases financial burden on myself for the benefit of someone else. I'm being honest, I truly don't care about my neighbor to the extent I'm willing to help.
This whole discussion on healthcare is framed as though people are entitled to healthcare. I don't believe they are.