Grove Bowl Attendance

[statefanoncampus]

<div class="tweet-row"><span class="tweet-user-name"><font color="#333333">kyleveazey</font> <span class="tweet-full-name"><font color="#999999" size="2">Kyle Veazey</font></span> </span><div class="tweet-corner"><div class="tweet-meta"><span class="icons"><div class="extra-icons"><span class="inlinemedia-icons"></span></div></span></div></div></div><div class="tweet-row" sizset="0" sizcache="1552"><div class="tweet-text"><font color="#2d76b9">#OleMiss</font> estimated Saturday's Grove Bowl crowd at 28,000. (Ummmm.) Press box estimates ranged from 7500 to 18,000. I figured 10,000.
</div></div>

 

[statefanoncampus]

<div class="tweet-row"><span class="tweet-user-name"><font color="#333333">kyleveazey</font> <span class="tweet-full-name"><font color="#999999" size="2">Kyle Veazey</font></span> </span><div class="tweet-corner"><div class="tweet-meta"><span class="icons"><div class="extra-icons"><span class="inlinemedia-icons"></span></div></span></div></div></div><div class="tweet-row" sizset="0" sizcache="1552"><div class="tweet-text"><font color="#2d76b9">#OleMiss</font> estimated Saturday's Grove Bowl crowd at 28,000. (Ummmm.) Press box estimates ranged from 7500 to 18,000. I figured 10,000.
</div></div>

 

[statefanoncampus]

<div class="tweet-row"><span class="tweet-user-name"><font color="#333333">kyleveazey</font> <span class="tweet-full-name"><font color="#999999" size="2">Kyle Veazey</font></span> </span><div class="tweet-corner"><div class="tweet-meta"><span class="icons"><div class="extra-icons"><span class="inlinemedia-icons"></span></div></span></div></div></div><div class="tweet-row" sizset="0" sizcache="1552"><div class="tweet-text"><font color="#2d76b9">#OleMiss</font> estimated Saturday's Grove Bowl crowd at 28,000. (Ummmm.) Press box estimates ranged from 7500 to 18,000. I figured 10,000.
</div></div>

 

[hotdigitydog]

that the wheels are about to roll off in Oxford.....

 

[statefanoncampus]

And they're doing everything they can to cover it and give a false sense of hope to the "Hotty Teddy" faithful.

 

[monkey11508.sixpack]

But wasn't the situation reversed during Croom's last year and Nutt's first year? I don't think it is prudent to make future projections in reference to one season; I've seen this story-line way too many times.

 

[DirtyLopez]

is spend a little cash for a couple straight recruiting seasons and they can get their feet back under them (assuming they have a capable coaching staff) within three years. I always say that we have a higher ceiling and a lower basement than they do. If all things are equal, we get the majority of recruits (MSU is a more attractive school to most MS kids for various reasons) and that is why our good seasons tend to be better than their good seasons. On the other hand, we tend to bottom out worse than they do partly because of booster activities (see this past year and other years in the past). Lets face it, they have more active boosters with more money than we do. And lets face it, our last two coaching staffs have made it clear that our boosters are not to get involved in recruiting.

 

[AssEndDawg]

But wasn't the situation reversed during Croom's last year and Nutt's first year? I don't think it is prudent to make future projections in reference to one season; I've seen this story-line way too many times.

There have been times where things were bad at State and good at Ole Miss and vice-versa, but ancillary things were always either equal or better at Ole Miss. Things are changing thought due to factors that are shifting, and its a big shift. Here are some of the factors I see:

- Huston Nutt was not and is not a great coach. If you look at Arkansas nearly all of their previous glory was in the SWC. UArk is the only real university in the entire state and they ran a favored son out of town. compare the situation to what he faces at Ole Miss and he is in a much tougher spot now.

- College football is changing. The "good ole boy" system is giving way to a more professional atmosphere. Nutt is a good ole boy coach and Boone is a good ole boy AD. We have managed to shed our good ole boys and we now have a professional AD and a professional coach. If you doubt the difference at all go and observe game day at Mississippi State and then the same at Ole Miss. Also you see that Dan brings in coaches who can do the work, not "friends", where as Nutt has surrounded himself with his buds making it harder to get rid of dead weight.

- A confluence of events have led to a shift in the money base
* SEC TV Contract makes basic needs a moot point
* The legal and medical professions are not near as lucrative as they used to be (and some of UM's big money boys are now in jail)
* Some business/professional professions have become elevated to produce much higher wages
* MSU has years and years of graduating more students. More graduates = more alumni
* MSU graduates way more business and engineering students than they do agriculture students these days, a fundamental shift for us

- The internet has changed how fast and how far information is spread. This can work for or against you but Scott and Dan seem to be pretty good at making it work for them while Nutt still doesn't seem to get that doing things like throwing reports out of practice for commenting on a player limping off the field is not going to look good. The world now requires a different view of the media and of the ways in which people want to consume information about college sports.

There are many more but I see a fundamental shift happening right now. I'm not saying we will crush Ole Miss and they will never recover but what I am saying is that we got on the wave of change early and Ole Miss is still sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. We are getting years ahead of them while they are still dealing with the Boone/Nutt issue and deciding what to call themselves. I think they will waste even more years dealing with changing "Rebels" and their next big money outlay is going to have to be a basketball arena (it was stupid to let it go that long).

If we can keep Mullen for a while we have a real chance to break ahead and stay ahead for a while. We lose Mullen and end up with a ****** coach and we will drop right back into line with the Bears. At least that's my opinion.

 

[hotdigitydog]

If the Rebs have another bad season (and I personally think they will) then the Wrong Reverened will be on the hot seat and his job couldpotentially bein jeopardy......That could in all likelihood adversely affect recruiting.....Plus, the QB situation is indeed dire and I don't see it being that much better the year after next but we shall see......Again, as I've said earlier, if they win 6 games this year it should be considered a very successful season.....</p>

 

[mstatefan88]

And if they have a bad season again, I don't see them pulling in a good class either. They will get some guys they can offer immediate playing time too, but I don't see them being able to get any CJ's or Singletons in this class. They don't want to hear it, but I see one win on their schedule that ifI were them I would feel good about, and that's Southern Illinois. @Vandy and @Fresno St.are going to be tough, I think they lose to BYU, and La Tech won't be a pushover.

They don't have any All SEC caliber guys on their team, they don't have a good staff, and they will be playing a bunch of freshmen because their upperclassmen aren't good. That is a recipe for disaster. I love how they keep pumping sunshine up their assesthinking that if they do itenough, their situation willmagically get better.I wonder if all of thoseTSUN fans that wouldn't trade any of their playersfor ours last year still think the same this year.

</p>

 

[yakalot]

But wasn't the situation reversed during Croom's last year and Nutt's first year? I don't think it is prudent to make future projections in reference to one season; I've seen this story-line way too many times.

LT was gone. Boone is still your AD.

You bears need to realize that LT was a millstone of enormous weight tied to the neck of Bulldog athletics. Boone is your millstone.

 

[Goat Holder II]

consistent as gravity. Ole Miss sucks, MSU is good. MSU fans get stupid. MSU gets slack on the crootin trail, Ole Miss gets desperate and gets after it. MSU falls off, Ole Miss gets better. Ole Miss fans get stupid. Cycle it over and over and over again since integration. One cycle may be 4 years, one may be 2. <div>
</div><div>The reasons are limitless. Terrible coach hire, good coach leaving, keeping coaches too long, etc. etc. etc. The only reality is what I said above. MSU fans should at least by happy that we got an SEC West Championship during one of our highs.</div>

 

[monkey11508.sixpack]

That might be the most logical, well thought out post you have ever made.

 

[Goat Holder II]

Makes you feel hopeful n ****. But back in 2008 you would have bashed me to hell and back for making that post. <div>
</div><div>
</div>

 

[monkey11508.sixpack]

backtodisagreeingku

 

[SnakePlissken]

Things may change one day but it won't happen in the next 3-5 years.

 

[rmphan]

* The legal and medical professions are not near as lucrative as they used to be (and some of UM's big money boys are now in jail)
* Some business/professional professions have become elevated to produce much higher wages

I agree with your entire post, except this part. While it is true that law and medicine aren't million dollar businesses per year, both law and medicine remain in the top 15 in wages. Only one from business exists in the BLS stats, that being CEOs. The real reason MSU is doing so well is management from the top. Coaching hires. Football is the flagship of program visibility and right now, it's Nutt vs. Mullen.

 

[AssEndDawg]

Now, I'm not saying we need to take up a collection plate for lawyers and doctors so don't get me wrong. What I am saying, is that the stats are misleading. Sure, doctor salaries are way up there but their insurance costs are outrageous and eats into a good chunk of their wages. They are also increasingly losing money and being forced into less lucrative deals by the government. Right now it's hard for most specialty physician practices to survive on their own so they are being bought up by hospitals.

As for lawyers there are some that make ungodly amounts of money, but it's a field that is insanely over populated right now. So most people coming out of law school are lucky to get a job at all. I know several attorneys who graduated in the top 10% of their class making less than $50,000 per year and they have to work their asses off to get it. Add to that the trend of tort reform going on (especially in Mississippi) and you are starting to see the legal profession dip some.

Again, not to say that there aren't people making ungodly amounts of money in these professions, just saying they aren't handing out corner offices and convertibles to new grads anymore. We are in very different financial times now than we were when Ole Miss was pumping out people going into the highest starting salary jobs in America and we were pumping out primarily farmers.

 

[rmphan]

No, I completely know what you're saying. But, in the case of Law, it's not "totally overpopulated". I can tell you that from personal experience. Law schools in the South are putting out the exact right # of graduates for the # of retiring lawyers. You may be correct in NYC, where there is a market saturation of Law degrees, but not in the South. Now, is there competition? Sure. Keep in mind though, after 2 years of grad, 100% of Law graduates have jobs or are furthering education. Mid-career salaries are at 100k on average, 75k for the 25th percentile. So, while OM isn't getting what they used to, its not a dire situation for lawyers by any stretch.

 

[AssEndDawg]

A) Learn to reply

B) I %@%%$%# said it wasn't a dire situation and you just admitted to my main point which is OM isn't getting what they used to.

Why in the hell did you come here to argue the point I was trying to make?

 

[Johnson85]

Keep in mind though, after 2 years of grad, 100% of Law graduates have jobs or are furthering education.

Mid-career salaries are at 100k on average, 75k for the 25th percentile. So, while OM isn't getting what they used to, its not a dire situation for lawyers by any stretch.

First, what the hell do you expect law graduates to do after 2 years of graduation. Unless they have family money to live off of, of course they have jobs after two years. The question is how many of them are ****** jobs. <div>
</div><div>Second, I'd be skeptical of the salary numbers. That may be true right now (I'm not sure what mid-career means), but things are definitely trending downward. If those numbers hold up, it will be because lots of lawyers are excelling in non-law jobs.</div>

 

[rmphan]

A) Learn to reply

B) I %@%%$%# said it wasn't a dire situation and you just admitted to my main point which is OM isn't getting what they used to.

Why in the hell did you come here to argue the point I was trying to make?

A) Sorry, I was on my phone. You'll have to forgive me, you whiny shitbag.

B) You said: "but it's a field that is insanely over populated right now. So most
people coming out of law school are lucky to get a job at all." I'm telling you that is a patently false statement. Over 90% of Law graduates from major public schools have jobs right out of school. Law graduates who use even 10% of their time networking, have a job. Get over it.

First, what the hell do you expect law graduates to do after 2 years of
graduation. Unless they have family money to live off of, of course
they have jobs after two years. The question is how many of them are
****** jobs. <div>
</div><div>Second, I'd be skeptical of the
salary numbers. That may be true right now (I'm not sure what
mid-career means), but things are definitely trending downward. If those
numbers hold up, it will be because lots of lawyers are excelling in
non-law jobs.</div>

The question is, how many if your brain cells are in ****** shape. If the average salary of a starting law graduate from LSU and Alabama, for instance, is $50,000 with a low numerical range (try to keep up here, I know this involves percentiles), then very few have "******" jobs.

I don't care if you're skeptical of salary numbers or not, that's irrelevant. What do you think mid-career means. Could it mean half-way through a career? Surely not, that's too obvious. Things are definitely trending upward, I'm not sure what numbers you're using, perhaps those you make up in your head. As the economy recovers, Law graduates will continue to notice an increase in salaries. Try again.

 

[jackstefano]

in the next 3-5 years. It's fairly predictable.</p>

 

[chew1095]

nm

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[AssEndDawg]

We simply already have too many Legal Professionals. AND the legal
profession is dramatically changing. It is in absolute CRISIS!!! Job
searching in this vocational field has changed
>>DRAMATICALLY<< in the last five years. And, every year,
more and more people graduate from law school, but there are fewer and
fewer jobs. Even the largest and most reputable law firms are
experiencing unprecedented cutbacks.

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/over-lawyer-ed/Content?oid=1393294

</p>

Graduates of 58 law schools make average starting salaries of $60,000
or less, a fact ignored by many of the stories touting $160,000
starting salaries at big law firms. Instead, the reality is that there are two classes of law grads, the National Jurist reports: those who earn the big bucks and those who don’t. And the low-paying jobs are much more prevalent.</p>

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/big_salaries_linked_to_big_name_law_schools_small_pay_is_larger_reality</p>

</p>

</p>

Well, every angle except one: the view from law schools. To judge from
data that law schools collect, and which is published in the closely
parsed U.S. News and World Report annual rankings, the prospects of young doctors of jurisprudence are downright rosy. </p>

In reality, and based on every other source of information, Mr.
Wallerstein and a generation of J.D.’s face the grimmest job market in
decades. Since 2008, some 15,000 attorney and legal-staff jobs at large
firms have vanished, according to a Northwestern Law study. Associates
have been laid off, partners nudged out the door and recruitment
programs have been scaled back or eliminated. </p>

And with corporations scrutinizing their legal expenses as never before,
more entry-level legal work is now outsourced to contract temporary
employees, both in the United States and in countries like India. It’s
common to hear lawyers fret about the sort of tectonic shift that
crushed the domestic steel industry decades ago.
</p>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage</p>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">But at some firms, that door is starting to
swing shut. Many prominent law firms in the Philadelphia region and
around the nation report substantially smaller internship programs this
summer, as firms cope with the downturn in the legal marketplace and
client demands that only seasoned lawyers be assigned to their matters.</span>

Philadelphia-area law firms cutting back on summer internships | Philadelphia Inquirer | 07/07/2010<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </span></span></p>

Early this summer, I helped welcome over 100 new attorneys to the
profession at a swearing-in event in Trenton. Each of them signed up for
law school believing they would join a noble profession - a profession
that would allow them to make a difference in society while earning a
good living for their families. Unfortunately, the job market that
greets them remains grim.

http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/current.php?artType=view&artMonth=July&artYear=2010&EntryNo=11177

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"></span></p>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"></span></p>

<span style="color:#000080;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I could go on and on but you get the point. Stupid prick.</span>
</span></p><div class="content"><div class="comment-text" dir="ltr">

</div></div>

 

[drt7891]

their athletic department decides to do. From their "28,000" at the spring game to all Houston Nutt's shenanigans. Veazey is doing exactly what he did here, he is reporting what is REALLY going on and not what they want people to THINK is going on, and he digs to find it. Great stuff.

 

[rmphan]

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/over-lawyer-ed/Content?oid=1393294

</p>

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/big_salaries_linked_to_big_name_law_schools_small_pay_is_larger_reality</p>

</p>

</p>

In reality, and based on every other source of information, Mr.
Wallerstein and a generation of J.D.’s face the grimmest job market in
decades. Since 2008, some 15,000 attorney and legal-staff jobs at large
firms have vanished, according to a Northwestern Law study. Associates
have been laid off, partners nudged out the door and recruitment
programs have been scaled back or eliminated. </p>

And with corporations scrutinizing their legal expenses as never before,
more entry-level legal work is now outsourced to contract temporary
employees, both in the United States and in countries like India. It’s
common to hear lawyers fret about the sort of tectonic shift that
crushed the domestic steel industry decades ago.
</p>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage</p>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></span>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">But at some firms, that door is starting to
swing shut. Many prominent law firms in the Philadelphia region and
around the nation report substantially smaller internship programs this
summer, as firms cope with the downturn in the legal marketplace and
client demands that only seasoned lawyers be assigned to their matters.</span>

Philadelphia-area law firms cutting back on summer internships | Philadelphia Inquirer | 07/07/2010<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </span></span></p>

Early this summer, I helped welcome over 100 new attorneys to the
profession at a swearing-in event in Trenton. Each of them signed up for
law school believing they would join a noble profession - a profession
that would allow them to make a difference in society while earning a
good living for their families. Unfortunately, the job market that
greets them remains grim.

http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/current.php?artType=view&artMonth=July&artYear=2010&EntryNo=11177

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"></span></p>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"></span></p>

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I could go on and on but you get the point. Stupid prick.</span>
</span></p><div class="content"><div class="comment-text" dir="ltr">

</div></div>

1) Quoting me an article from the Arkansas times with a small sample size will not prove your point. Wrong.

2) Nobody said people are coming out of school making $160k, in fact, if you bothered to read anything I typed, you'd realize nowhere was that claim made. I said the average starting salary was 50k. Pay attention.

3) Oh NO! 15,000 jobs lost in a market of 779,000 jobs? That's nearly a loss of 0.01%. Idiot.

4) Congratulations, you proved the PHILADELPHIA, BIG FIRMS are cutting back. Do you have a mental comprehension problem? What part about Southern law gradutes did you not get? Not only that, but you brought this up from the start as it relates to OM. Now you bring up Philadelphia's legal market, in some pathetic attempt to prove an already lost point. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

5) Did you just quote to me an article about Rutgers-Newark, a Tier 3 Law school, when we were discussing SOUTHERN state schools. Futher, the article raises concerns about minorities practicing in the legal profession struggling to find jobs. Which has nothing to do with what we're talking about. What's worse, the article goes on to discuss the possibility of foreign employment taking away from legal jobs in NEW JERSEY. Yea, awfully close to Mississippi and all. Aside from all those things being wrong with that article, the worst part is this. Nobody outside the state of New Jersey can offer services without being members of the bar. What that article is discussing is basic transactions being done by Indian companies, which is, if you didn't pay attention in your government class, is illegal. So, the article discusses an illegal practice that the the federal government is currently cracking down on. IE: There is no long term apocalypse looming, despite all the fear mongering you're attempting to further. Attorneys will be fine. How does this relate to The School Up North? It doesn't. You're an idiot.

 

[gravedigger]

variable period of time?

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm

 

[AssEndDawg]

Quoting me an article from the <span style="font-weight: bold;">Arkansas</span> times with a small sample size will not prove your point. Wrong.

What part about <span style="font-weight: bold;">Southern</span> law gradutes did you not get?

A guy who can't spell graduates telling me I'm embarrassing myself? Come back with a single article from a reputable source that talks about the increasing legal market or shut the #*%$ up. This is a sports message board and I'm sick of dealing with some prick who has used all 4 of his posts on this board to try and argue a minor point in my original post with zero facts.

Oh, but I did a search on you and Google turned up one of your profiles: "http://www.gaytube.com/profile_favorites/rmphan/&p=2"

Not my cup of tea, but to each his own. Now #*%$ off.

 

[patdog]

or that UM will have a better record than MSU over the next 3-5 years in total? That's 2 very different bets. One I would take in a heartbeat and one I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.

 

[rmphan]

AssEndDawg]

Quoting me an article from the <span style="font-weight: bold;">Arkansas</span> times with a small sample size will not prove your point. Wrong.

What part about <span style="font-weight: bold;">Southern</span> law gradutes did you not get?

A guy who can't spell graduates telling me I'm embarrassing myself? Come back with a single article from a reputable source that talks about the increasing legal market or shut the #*%$ up. This is a sports message board and I'm sick of dealing with some prick who has used all 4 of his posts on this board to try and argue a minor point in my original post with zero facts.

Oh, but I did a search on you and Google turned up one of your profiles: "http://www.gaytube.com/profile_favorites/rmphan/&p=2"

Not my cup of tea, but to each his own. Now #*%$ off.

Oh, I'm sorry, did my spelling offend you? Because apparently, you can't refute any reasonable thing that's been said. Instead, you resort to grammar policing. Pathetic. As far as articles that talk about the "increasing" legal market. Nobody writes articles about the legal marketing expanding, because it expands all the #@!@$@* time. The only time it doesn't, is during a recession. Did you miss this in economics class, or are you that #@!@$@* dense. Zero facts? You must be confusing me with you. I've given you all the Bureau of labor statistics that you should need. Evidently, you're just too dumb to put it all together.

Nice, you're googling my handle, which I made up YESTERDAY. I'm sorry there are people who like gay porn, maybe he/she/it should share some with you. #@!@$@* weirdo *** shitbag.

 

[EmoryBellard]

nm

 

[gdogg]

that is all.

 

[Johnson85]

rmphan]B) You said: "but it's a field that is insanely over populated right now. So most people coming out of law school are lucky to get a job at all." I'm telling you that is a patently false statement. Over 90% of Law graduates from major public schools have jobs right out of school. Law graduates who use even 10% of their time networking, have a job. Get over it.

The question is, how many if your brain cells are in ****** shape. If the average salary of a starting law graduate from LSU and Alabama, for instance, is $50,000 with a low numerical range (try to keep up here, I know this involves percentiles), then very few have "******" jobs.

I don't care if you're skeptical of salary numbers or not, that's irrelevant. What do you think mid-career means. Could it mean half-way through a career? Surely not, that's too obvious. Things are definitely trending upward, I'm not sure what numbers you're using, perhaps those you make up in your head. As the economy recovers, Law graduates will continue to notice an increase in salaries. Try again.

First, there are a lot of students and recent graduatesfrom UM law that would disputethat theonly reason they don't have jobs isthat they haven't networked.

Second, your and dubmass regarding the "average" salary of $50k. Salaries of law school graduates are bi-modal. You have a small cluster of people that make agreat salary out of law school, then a second, much larger grouping that is below themean, but basically contains the median. In other words,a plot of the distribution ofgraduate salaries doesn't look like a bell curve, but has two "humps" (I'm simplifying so you can understand). Soa $50k average is useless information to most people. They need to know what the median is, what the top distribution is, andto have a reasonable guess as to whether they think they will be in that top grouping, or (more likely) in the grouping below the average. So when you considermost law school students did reasonably well in undergrad and could have gotten a decent job after college,foregoing three years of income (and probably paying tuition) in order to get a job somewhere south of $50k doesn't look that great.

Third, howyou define mid-career matters.I'm guessing theypick a number of years into the profession (or maybeinclude people that have practiced between X and X+5 years). One thing I doknow is your definition is wrong,as there's no way toknow who is really half-way through their career. Butagain, assuming that most law schoolgraduates had a fairly high aptitute, it's not unreasonable toexpect lots of them would have been successful in another field, without giving up three years of income to go to lawschool and without (for a lot of them) working ****** hours.

 

[whistlerdog]

UM got their big lawyer dollars from plaintiff and defense atty alums that did very well from "mass" tort cases such as tobacco, drugs, asbestos, consumer finance etc. Tort reform in MS essentially killed "mass" tort litigation and has had a huge impact on the earnings of plaintiff and defense lawyers alike and not in a good way. Law schools continue to put out the same numbers of students despite the fact that firms are just not hiring the numbers they used to. More kids are going to law school because they cant find jobs out of undergrad. Yes, the recent law grads eventually find jobs that may be related or unrelated to law practice. Some work as paralegals or contract attys because that's all they can get.Iknow very few lawyers in private practice that are retiring- most continue practicing because they have to.The fact is that big MS law firm revenues are downfor a number of reasonsand it's a ****** environment.

 

[jake taylor]

As a current third year law student at Ole Miss, I can guarantee that it's alot worse than you even realize. First off, out of the current classabout to graduateit's estimated that only between 5-15% of the class has a job or any type of interest period. It has reached a level that the career services office is sending out "don't panic" emails and suggesting taking random jobs in places like Alaska because they have nothing better to tell us. On top of that, most of the people who do have jobs, have them because of a close family member who is a lawyer. That's just the way it is. And it's not like everyone who gets a job gets a decent one in business or something, I know people from last year's class that had average or above average grades that are working as waiters, retail associates, etc. Most would kill for a $50,000 salary, which when considering the additional debt that is incurred attending law school (which at Ole Miss is as cheap as it gets) that number is not as great as it would originally appear with most students taking on between 30,000 and 60,000 in debt for law school alone, and that doesnt consider any other student debt that might have been accumulated during the undergraduate years.

And the demand for lawyers in Mississippi has dried up. I know several firms, ranging from firms with 2 lawyers to somewhere between 50-100 laywers, that have actually downsized in recent years. The firms where I have worked all talked about the fact that the business is just not there since most insurance companies are deciding to pay out instead of litigating. By no means am I saying that no one need a lawyer or that there is no business period, but the amount of business out there has diminished and we currently pump out over 250 lawyers a year between Ole Miss and MC. Combine this with the fact that approximately there is 1 lawyer for every 300 people in the state of Mississippi. That sounds like a decent ratio, but consider that 200 of those people will not be able to afford or need a lawyer except for in extreme circumstances. Of the 100 that can afford them, only about 20-40 at most would need them on a consistent basis. And the majority of the work was generated as defense work for insurance companies, when they start settling and avoiding the legal process, the need for lawyers does diminish significantly. Here, onlytwo firms came to campus to interview third year students. The only other oganizations that interviewed third year students were the Army Corp of Engineers, the Army itself, NASA, and the IRS of which none were guaranteeing to hire someone. When discussing job prospects with an older lawyer, he flat out told me that even if they were going to hire, they would more than likley go with one of the many lawyers who are experienced that are out of work. Another lawyer I worked with told me last summer that it might be a better financial decision to drop out before my third year and cut my losses instead of taking out one more year of loans for tuition. Think he was a crazy old loon, well here is a link from an article by the American Bar Association Journal that discusses whether a first year should just quit after his first semester instead of racking up debt with the job market so shaky. http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/article/As_1L_Ponders_Cost-Benefit_Ratio?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email

With that being said, I will go ahead and cut you off and admit that I don't have a job, so if you want to just classify me as a disgruntled law student who just didn't network or put any effort into it, go ahead. But the legal job market is suffering here as much as anywhere else. And it will affect Ole Miss to an extent with a large part of it's alumni base being in the legal field. We've had professors make snide remarks about how the school has had to fund aspects of the new law school with borrowed funds that were not inteded to be handled that way in the original plan due to a significantly lower amount of donations than what was expected. (aka, Dickey goes to jail and the money well dried up significantly)

With the tort reform and shifts in policy by businesses and insurancecompanies, there is a greatly diminshed need for lawyers in the traditional sense. And right now, with the job market the way it is, other businesses aren't as quick to hire a laywer because they can get a graduate without a professional degree and pay him significanlty less, or if they are willing to fork out more, hire either someone in the field with experience or a lawyer with experience who has decided to seek other employment as a result of the diminished capacity. Is the legal field going to die off, no, but it is going through a fundamental shift in the employment process for graduates. It will happen here too, and Ole Miss will suffer as a result, they have already begun to feel some of the effects.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

You very obviously have less than 0% of an idea of what you are talking about. As a fairly recent graduate of a Mississippi law school, I can tell you without a doubt that students are not graduating from law school with jobs right now. As someone with a job in the legal market in Mississippi, I can tell you without a doubt that law firms are not hiring at anything resembling the same rate they used to in the past. I can also tell you that attorneys are retiring later and later due to the fact that they need to keep working so that they can continue to live the lifestyle that they and their families are accustomed to.

I don't know where you got your "knowledge", but it obviously wasn't gained firsthand from experience.

I'd love to live in your world, where apparently I'd be making all sorts of money simply because I have a law degree.

 

[MTNDawg.sixpack]

I am also a law student at Ole Miss and the job market is tough. That said, the 5-15% that graduate with jobs is a little misleading. Unless you are in the top 20% you do not typically find a job until after you pass the bar. With that in mind, most of my friends graduated over the last two years without jobs. After passing the bar, each of them had a job within 3 months in the city of their choice as an attorney or in a judicial clerkship. None of these students were top 30% in their class.

If you do well in school and are flexible (ex. refuse to work anywhere but Oxford) the jobs are still out there. The difference is the amount of networking necessary and the hours required to find the jobs that are not posted. That is a stark contrast to my exit from engineering at State with 7 job offers and a sub 3 GPA. Regardless, no first year attorney is making $160k in Mississippi or Tennessee unless they fit a niche and have unprecedented work experience. The starting salaries for the big boys range from $85 - 110k.