Yeah, not even getting jabbed a couple of times reduces that %.
He gone … unvaccinated Vikings coach
- Thread starter megablue
- Start date
Yeah, not even getting jabbed a couple of times reduces that %.
Not a question of IF, but WHEN and HOW ??
This **** is getting out of hand, his body his choice, right? At least that's what I've always heard ...
slow down my friend...
some are convinced that they will live forever in the arms of Jesus
Also I’m not looking through 5 pages but even Deandre Hopkins, a top 5 receiver in the league is contemplating quitting. It’s nice to see people stand up to this ***** *** ********, if you want it go get it and if you don’t you shouldn’t have too. Both my parents, nearly 60 in age have the vaccine, but they’re not scared of Covid, they got it because they want the world back to normal and to protect themselves, I don’t have it and I’m not getting it(28, healthy, and have had Covid). Every argument I’ve ever heard is “my body my choice” but not with the vaccine. It’s so funny how the narratives change. Seriously, if you wanna protect YOURSELF, go get it, if you don’t want to put the vaccine in your body don’t. And that is the right way to view things. Do what is best for yourself, and that’s all you can do in life.
Not so fast my friend. When all the misinformed fools decline the vaccine - which is the scientific godsend of the young century (on that note, imagine idiots refusing the polio vaccine decades ago), it makes it less likely that my kids will be able to go to in person schools in the fall. Rights are not without responsibilities and end when they intrude on others’ well being.
Once the vaccines are FDA approved, they will be required in schools and likely many other places as they should be. As are other vaccines. I mean seriously, can you imagine in the 50s if right wing media was around and convinced all the dudes that the polio vaccine was the devil? Be a bunch of cripps hopping around at the Republican convention that’s for sure. You folks act like you’ve never heard of a vaccine.
Ok. Appreciate you letting me know your viewpoints. Now I know. You people act like you’ve never dealt with a virus… SARS, Covid, the Flu, etc. no one has ever walked around with a stupid ******* mask on for over a year for any of those, and everyone seems just fine. If I get the vaccine I’m not protecting anyone besides ME, I’m not protecting my neighbor, I’m not protecting you, I’m protecting one person, ME. Just as everyone else is that got it. And guess what I don’t care, I don’t care that my parents got the vaccine, I don’t care if you got the vaccine, I love my family, I love my neighbor and their children, but I’m not gonna be forced to do anything by a government that doesn’t have my well being in their best interest. Once again, everyone should do what’s best for themselves and the ones they love and they’ll be fine.
Anecdotes don't stand up nearly as well as the hundreds of thousands of folks who've been assessed via stringent research papers and the millions who have been monitored after vaccine rollout late last year.
One or two examples of any perceived side effects can be pure chance. Seriously, it happens all the time because life is messy. That's why we need large samples and carefully crafted studies to eliminate bias as much as possible. I work at a university. It's likely that 90%+ of the ~150 people I interact with on a monthly basis now have gotten both jabs (or one of J&J, of course). Know how many had any noticeable, long-term side effects? None. And yes, I've asked nearly all of them. Molecular biologists who will know more about immune function and vaccines than I ever will were basically in line as soon as doses came to town.
Same with my family. Hell, my gun-toting, outlaw country-loving uncle got his shot the minute it was available. No side effects.
The fact of the matter remains that long-term impacts of the virus are KNOWN to be detrimental. We've got folks like Kirk Herbstreit who still have no sense of taste or smell. Brain fog and lethargy are additional detriments. Lung scarring and organ damage caused by the virus and low O2 levels will impact global healthcare for decades. Even asymptomatic cases have been shown to inflame the heart while mild cases have reduced gray matter in the brain (recent study). Clots are an issue, too.
We now live in a time when people who are on an ICU bed or are about to be intubated are still pushing anti-vax rhetoric. Maybe they're trying to become martyrs, maybe they're just stubborn. It's damn difficult for people to admit when they've made serious mistakes. I feel like more people would come out as pro-vaccine if a lot of folks on the left would just stop being a bunch of dicks and a lot of folks on the right would look at the consequences of their actions. Seriously, to any liberals and leftists who are guilty of saying "I told you so" as someone's loved one is LITERALLY drowning in their own fluids, that's about as horrific and detrimental to our cause than anything I can think of. It's a small percentage. Kinda like the vocal basketball fans that threaten and berate college players. But still. Think before you type. I digress.
---
Masking was literally the least we could've asked for. Folks refused. Vaccination is a better alternative (both is even better), but still folks refused (and now the Delta variant is likely going to shut a lot of stuff down again this winter). Fox News folks are starting to come forward and promote the vaccine. I don't know if it's a lack of Trump or the realization that this ****'s about to hit their base hard, but they're slowly beginning to talk positively about the vaccine. The Alabama governor... ALABAMA, has started talking about the vaccine's benefits. This isn't going away soon, and it certainly isn't going away before it takes out a LOT more people.
Israel has a ton vaxxed. Delta is breaking through. LA has a ton vaxxed. Breaking through. Vaccines are still effective, but the Delta variant has altered spike proteins which helps it bypass the OG vaccines. The summer was nice while the vaccines held, but until we get the updated booster shots, I think we're right back to where we were before last fall.
I know I might not change your mind. I really do. But, I'd like to take a moment to ask you as someone who cares about Kentuckians and BBN, that you carry an open mind.
Be well.
LOL
Reads like a GRRMartin novel.
EVERYONE HERE cares about Kentuckians and BBN, even care about the Cards fans. That's why some that have studied this stuff DON'T want people to get the shot, but support their decision if they do.
You can ignore the data that doesn't fit your beliefs. That's your right to do so. I'm going to keep my mind open to ALL of the data, past present and future, regardless of whether it soothes anyone's faith in pharmaceuticals.
This in BOLD is the BIGGEST TRUTH anyone has posted on here. Thank you for cutting through the bullsht, ACE5
Lmao... swing and a miss on the point and validity of the post you quoted. The pharmaceutical companies (including the new start up that has never made a shot before) admitted the shots don't stop you from getting nor from transmitting Covid.
Yep. They can also be held liable by those that are compelled to get it.
Appreciate it brother. I am just passionate and I do my best to see through ignorance. I’m not close to 100% right on anything, but like I said, I’m passionate
So you would eat the horse dewormer on a cracker also for Covid?
That's what the his Freedom First Network is promoting.
Really seeing why our country has declined intellectually.
This whole thread is (supposed to be) about health yet Ivermectin is mocked for its ability to rid organisms of parasites.
No people are mocked for believing Ivermectin for roundworms is a cure for Covid.
Maybe I need to get into the snake oil business, seems to be plenty rubes in the market.
Covid causes death- vaccine practically free
insulin- not so much
I’ll believe the government and big pharma when I know it’s about the actual well being of its citizens. Until then , I’ll be cautious.
insulin- not so much
I’ll believe the government and big pharma when I know it’s about the actual well being of its citizens. Until then , I’ll be cautious.
It's rare that a conversation
I haven't ignored data. I have looked at the information provided by posters and carefully considered its merits and demerits before ultimately coming to the conclusion that their evidence is weak. In many cases, Occam's Razor, that which dictates the simplest answer is likely the most correct, refutes them. In other cases, overwhelming evidence to the contrary refutes them. If that upsets you, I don't know what to tell you.
I can promise you that the people who have studied immunity and microbiology for 20-30 years (not to mention public health) have studied this situation much more than a month of Google searching. I trust them. I don't trust politicians who've made asses of themselves and who are finally coming around because their base is going to get hit the hardest during this next wave.
If you genuinely feel like not getting a shot is in your best interest, then there isn't a damn thing I can do to force it upon you. I will, however, do what I can to convince you that it's in your best interest. Because it is. I'll provide whatever information I can and knowledge I have because dammit, that's what teachers do.
Edit: just because I keep seeing stuff here about the vaccine not preventing you from getting the virus or spreading it... Fun from the CDC
In that link, verbatim:
I've said my piece. Cheers
You do that, friend.
I haven't ignored data. I have looked at the information provided by posters and carefully considered its merits and demerits before ultimately coming to the conclusion that their evidence is weak. In many cases, Occam's Razor, that which dictates the simplest answer is likely the most correct, refutes them. In other cases, overwhelming evidence to the contrary refutes them. If that upsets you, I don't know what to tell you.
I can promise you that the people who have studied immunity and microbiology for 20-30 years (not to mention public health) have studied this situation much more than a month of Google searching. I trust them. I don't trust politicians who've made asses of themselves and who are finally coming around because their base is going to get hit the hardest during this next wave.
If you genuinely feel like not getting a shot is in your best interest, then there isn't a damn thing I can do to force it upon you. I will, however, do what I can to convince you that it's in your best interest. Because it is. I'll provide whatever information I can and knowledge I have because dammit, that's what teachers do.
Edit: just because I keep seeing stuff here about the vaccine not preventing you from getting the virus or spreading it... Fun from the CDC
In that link, verbatim:
- COVID 19-vaccines are effective. They can keep you from getting and spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.
- COVID-19 vaccines also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.
- Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.
I've said my piece. Cheers
Last edited:
Oh?
One group of people want left alone and the power to choose. The second group wants to force their will and opinion on the first. Yet somehow the first group is in the wrong?
Live your life like you want and let others do the same. That isn't hard yet the second group will have none of it.
Employers don't have a tough decision at all. Why should an employer be involved in my health decisions?
This is a viking decision but it's in place because of the absurd NFL policy. Players are pushing back. Good for them.
Their logic is that letting people go and live how they want will result in outbreaks in facilities and among workforces.
That could lead to future liability, long-term medical complications that could impact careers, and significant turnover. Not saying there's the possibility of significant turnover in the NFL, but the point remains viable in other sectors and industries.
Half a workforce not getting vaccinated puts the other half at risk. The Delta variant can break through our current 2-dose vaxes. They still convey a lot of protection, but slightly less now that they did with Alpha or UK COVID. So, even if someone got their shots, other employees/players could pass the variant on to them and then they pass it along to their loved ones.
If the vaccine works as stated, there will not be an issue. People get sick. It's unavoidable.
Maybe employers should fire or not hire anyone with a family history of cancer or heart disease? Or a bad food allergy? After all, someone could have accidentally leave a smudge of peanut butter on a door handle. Or maybe we just don't hire anyone with any physical disability?
As a society our attention span shrunk and with it our ability to see further than the end of our nose.
In working age people, there is a very small chance of a serious case and virtually zero chance of death. So no need to worry on those fronts. Also anyone concerned has the ability to get the vaccine if they choose. So the only concern left are cases.
Vaccines were made to prevent serious cases not to eliminate covid. The latter is not a realistic outcome. Delta shows how great the virus is at working around existing protection; and future variants will be even better. Exposure is and always was a near certainty.
So if serious cases/death are a non issue and exposure is certain (therefore not a variable); then what's left? That's right - nothing. Well except control of course. The desire to make someone do what you think they should do.
Personal choice must always be the rule, minus limited extreme circumstances. A virus with 99% survival rate and vaccines far less than 100% effective against transmission do not warrant extreme circumstances.
I can't believe how ignorant some people are these days. I mean does Bleedingblue actually believe what he posted?? The death jab?? Lol
Are you anti vaxers not seeing the daily stories about the people who say covid is fake, or refusing the vaccines die on a daily basis?? This isn't about politics, it's about science and common sense. So by all means, you do you. But stop spreading lies that can cause harm to others dumb enough to believe you.
Are you anti vaxers not seeing the daily stories about the people who say covid is fake, or refusing the vaccines die on a daily basis?? This isn't about politics, it's about science and common sense. So by all means, you do you. But stop spreading lies that can cause harm to others dumb enough to believe you.
In late June, my former employer had 68 shifts of overtime to cover in a single building because of people out with Covid, none of who were vaccinated. One of my friends works in that building and is livid that he and others are having to pay for the arrogant stupidity and stubbornness of the unvaccinated. Last year anyone at work who got Covid or had to quarantine because of it didn't have to use sick time for it. At bare minimum, I'm guessing that policy will change if you are unvaccinated. If it gets too bad they may start telling people to get vaccinated or find another job. That's a personal choice, right?
I'm sorry but if you think vaccinations don't affect those you come in contact with, you simply don't understand vaccines. You affect the people around you one way or the other.
I'd be careful using Jacobsen as a rational for your argument. While its a thing it's not a good one. Almost every atrocity our government has committed used Jacobsen as it's base argument. The list includes segregation, forced internment of Japanese citizens in WWII, stealing native Americans land and more. Jacobsen hasn't been over turned yet but it should be.
You used an apology of noncontagious disease to support employer pitfalls with covid vaccines? Why?
Overturned? No, I think it should be applied more narrowly. There really are times when government has compelling reasons for typically unconstitutional acts. The bar should be pretty high.
In general you are correct but when communicable disease is the issue, other factors come into play.
1. The issue is one of probability. Yes, people will get sick. Working in an unvaccinated environment, even if one is vaccinated, exponentially increases the likelihood of getting infected.
2. Someone can't give someone else a peanut allergy because they refused a vaccine. Someone can't give someone else heart disease because one refused a vaccine. It's not transmissible. In other instances of our constitution, the rights of one human being go as far as infringing on the rights of others. Refusing the vaccine increases the likelihood of bodily harm to others. It just does. The evidence compiled by government and independent studies is overwhelming.
3. If ICUs begin overflowing with intubated patients, that will affect all other emergency and intensive care patients. Not just COVID patients. Triage was a reality at peak last winter. With the insane infectivity of the new variant, it's likely to become reality again this winter. Death is not the only consequence of COVID. Kirk Herbstreit still doesn't have taste or smell. Covid can cause clots. Heart inflammation has been found in asymptomatic cases. Mild cases can reduce gray matter in the brain. Lung scarring can affect oxygen saturation levels for life. Low O2 during infection can damage organs and cause untold amounts of internal damage.
It really isn't just about deaths. It's about the holistic consequences for short term and long term healthcare in the US and globally.
As of right now, getting vaccinated isn't a guarantee you'll be protected. The variant made sure of that. Folks are still largely protected, but again, 70% isn't 94-95%. The concern rests with cases, vaccinations, and consequences. If everyone got vaccinated TODAY, I can all but guarantee we'd kick Covid's *** in two months.
4. It was made to prevent serious illness. True. It's since been found that the vaccines could, in fact, eliminate the virus. Incomplete vaccination has allowed a variant to disseminate through the US population. Nonexistent or ineffectual vaccination efforts abroad have allowed the virus to proliferate and mutate.
You're right. The virus is adept at mutating past our tech. That's why complete vaccination is so important. Don't give it the chance to mutate. Prevent infections and you prevent mutations.
Interesting note... Future variants will become more infectious until they can't. At some point, the spike glycoprotein that allows the virus to bind to ACE receptors in our lungs and mucous membranes will have to run out of steam. It almost has to. That follows what we've seen in other viruses. We vax against the variant, and it evolves for whatever reason. At some point, it can't evolve anymore because it won't even infect human cells. Then vaccinations will begin eroding the virus.
5. Serious cases and deaths are absolutely an issue, and exposure doesn't have to be a certainty if everyone plays their part. It's just getting to that point that's the hold up.
Control? It was just a mask, my friend. When people refused, it turned into lockdowns to try and save lives. A lot of folks couldn't or didn't follow lockdown protocols, so the virus had a field day. That was then used as evidence that the protocols put in place didn't work and were put in place to try and assert control over the population.
I don't think people should be arrested for smoking a plant. I think it should be legal for someone to distill their own damn liquor. I think we should expand firearm accessibility as well as firearm training. I don't believe we should leave it to the public to decide whether or not a vaccine is for them. That should be between the individual and their medical doctor.
We eliminated smallpox globally in 1980 because of vaccination efforts. We haven't had a native case of polio in decades. Measles and whooping cough were virtually eliminated until a doc bullshitted people into believing the vaccine for them causes autism. Getting vaccinated against bacterial meningitis is a requirement for many universities because an outbreak would mean certain death or permanent disability for a portion of students and faculty. We live in a time where we are BLESSED with a relatively disease-free society. That isn't by mistake. You or your parents (or both) likely still have a scar on their arm from their smallpox vaccination. The vaccine wasn't about controlling the population then. It isn't about that now. It's about saving lives.
6. Personal choice must always be the rule unless that choice harms others. If preventable transmission and infection impedes someone's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then the refusal of a vaccine must be scrutinized.
Seatbelts don't prevent death in 100% of wrecks. Nor do airbags. All the gun safety measures in the world don't prevent 100% of human error. Redundancies in commercial aircrafts don't prevent 100% of crashes. ******** modern gas cans don't prevent 100% of gas-related tragedies (lmao). Fail-safes don't prevent websites from getting hacked 100% of the time.
It's not about 100%. It's about reducing the probability of harm as much as possible. We can either do whatever is necessary to make a positive difference, reduce human suffering, and put an end to this pandemic sooner rather than later... or allow this show to continue for years. Life is a game of chance. I like improving my odds and the odds of those I care about.
Are you so sure? There is certainly enough positive to require more analysis. https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93485No people are mocked for believing Ivermectin for roundworms is a cure for Covid.
Maybe I need to get into the snake oil business, seems to be plenty rubes in the market.
The empirical data out there contradicts your “I’ve seen vaccinated people in our office who got it”. But the properly blinded studies to directly test susceptibility to infection and risk of transmission are just now underway, so I guess we’ll have to wait until those results are reported. I bet we find there is a significant reduction in infection and transmission among vaccinated vs unvaccinated. If not, I’ll admit I was wrong.
It should be extremely high and utilized in critical matters of national security, national health, and emergencies above and beyond what we could expect to see in any given year. I'd say a 100 year pandemic fits the bill.
Not really. I didn't say about empirical data, but rather one factual observation. I didn't say my observation was the average or within a std dev or two. It may be an outlier for all i know. The point was, vax'd people can, and do, still catch and spread. The empirical data doesn't contradict my observation. The data may outweigh it, that would be fair.
I think the thing we can agree upon, this needs to be studied further and time should prove it out. Long term, i hope you're right.
I saw yesterday the CDC is ending the current test protocol because the test cannot differentiate between the flu and covid. That gives one even more reason to pause; were a majority of the cases the flu rather than covid? (the flu and common cold have essentially disappeared)
My main point in entering this discussion was to say I think the coach has a wrongful termination case. They fired him bc he wouldn't take the vax, presumably bc he could transmit to others without it. Well, he can transmit to others if he does get the vax (maybe much less likely, but it does happen). I offered my observation as proof that it CAN still happen. It seems like he has a case IMO. What is more disturbing is how ppl are trying to shut down any discussion (not you, but others).