Hey Talty, Bears lost a commit to UCF. Rumor is. They
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When I saw his tweet on that
I just shook my head and laughed. It Msu did that it would have been on front page of the CL
I just shook my head and laughed. It Msu did that it would have been on front page of the CL
I'll get roasted as usual, but the difference here is that not only did the kid break his leg during the season, we also offered him a grey shirt. We didn't deny him a scholly completely.
I know what the point of your post is and actually kind of agree with it somewhat. However, these 2 situations are a bit different. Flame away...
Thanks! I knew that there was a logical explanation somewhere and that OM had not committed a dastardly deed such as we.
We had two commits tear their ACLs. Didn't drop them or offer a grey shirt. Nice try tho.
The other difference is that the greyshirt was offered months ago. And hasn't Talty already did a story on it? This was the same kid the Propst article was about was it not?
How long does it take a broken leg to heal? Is Talty Ole Miss's recruiting journalist for the CL or is there another reason his tweet was to calm the masses by letting everyone know that Ole Miss offered him a grey shirt so no big loss.
Grey shirt = no scholarship. Now that you know that, do you honestly believe what OM did was better? I'm sure in the conversation had this kid been like "well, I'm interested in walking on and paying my own way. Can I still do that?" the answer would have been something like "yeah!" We told the guy he could still go somewhere for free and we'd help him out though.
This other kid has legit offers where a school, obviously not his 1st choice, is willing to waive $40k+ of student debt. If I was a recruit and this happened to me I'd be pissed either way, but I'd punch a coach in the throat if he tried to talk me into greyshirting when I could play for a team that just won a BCS bowl and will have the #2 pick in the draft this year.
This other kid has legit offers where a school, obviously not his 1st choice, is willing to waive $40k+ of student debt. If I was a recruit and this happened to me I'd be pissed either way, but I'd punch a coach in the throat if he tried to talk me into greyshirting when I could play for a team that just won a BCS bowl and will have the #2 pick in the draft this year.
If the truth sounds like bear defense then you are right. And my low post count will paint me as a bear. So be it. This thread was started with a call for Talty to look into this. The fact is he has, we discussed the Propst interview last month. Rehashing it again is pointless.
And for the record, Im all for cutting kids if a kid doesn't progress, slacks on his grades, has an injury that may keep him from being the player that was originally recruited, we find a better player, and any other legitimate reason. Fact is Liggins didn't progress and I have no issue with him being cut. The Talty article was BS. If a kid gets a better offer and drops us then we should be able to drop a kid for the same reason. Write an article about that Talty.
It's because Ole Miss is cold, heartless, and cruel
...and only uses people for what they can take from them.
...and only uses people for what they can take from them.
the difference in the 2 situations is that the oxford coach is a hypocritical **** and the one from GA understands the process. the liggins ordeal was made out by talty and the media as a hit piece on state while the pittman deal was just bidness as usual. basically both are very similar scenarios but were delivered entirely different by the media. much of that was due to the comments by the high school coaches. one is a **** with an agenda while the other doesn't have an axe to grind. talty is a **** for allowing another **** and his childish comments to sound legit when they were not.
Welcome to December!
Talty already did a story on his grey shirt offer and had quotes from his coach saying he thought it would be good for the kid.
Talty already did a story on his grey shirt offer and had quotes from his coach saying he thought it would be good for the kid.
I think the major difference here is that Pittman was still being given a "spot" at Ole Miss. Yes, he had been asked to grayshirt, but he still was going to be given a spot on the team. He chose to de-commit and go to UCF, a school that just won a BCS bowl. Ole Miss didn't just up and cut ties with them.
With that said, I have no problem with what State did with the kid at Oxford, it's just the nature of the business. I've never understood why the recruits have free reign to de-commit/flip/etc as they please, but if a school decides to go a different direction they are the bad guy. But, as we all know, if the coach at Oxford at not made a big deal about it, it would have never been a story.
With that said, I have no problem with what State did with the kid at Oxford, it's just the nature of the business. I've never understood why the recruits have free reign to de-commit/flip/etc as they please, but if a school decides to go a different direction they are the bad guy. But, as we all know, if the coach at Oxford at not made a big deal about it, it would have never been a story.
You're right and
the biggest problem was giving him an outlet to voice this stupid *** opinion he had. That was just poor "journalism" by talty.
the biggest problem was giving him an outlet to voice this stupid *** opinion he had. That was just poor "journalism" by talty.
Honest question, and this is not a response to your reply, because you are exactly right. Have you ever felt that Talty has painted Ole Miss in a negative light? I'll tell you I don't believe in any Cleveland bias or any CL bias as a whole. Talty knows where his bread is buttered and I completely think he panders to the Ole Miss crowd.
Greyshirt = essentially walking on. 17 you. Maybe half those kids actually make it to getting a scholly. Just like that QB y'all promised the world to a couple seasons ago who now sits around on a bench for some random SWAC school.
ole miss pulled the rug out from under pittman's feet just the way MSU did Ligg
I'm sure Liggins had an option to gray shirt if he had wanted to. we did it early and even put out some feelers for him to go get other options. there is nothing different between the 2 scenarios.
the oxford high's coach said stupid things and talty legitimized them by offering no counter to what the coach said. talty could have let the readers know that these things happen often (including at ole miss and other schools) and that a h.s. coach black listing a SEC school does his players no favors at all. the whole article was meant to insinuate Mullen and his staff are cruel and don't play by the rules and don't care about the players. the lack of class was entirely on the oxford high coach and talty running with it. he does this knowing that the majority of those reading don't know the true ins and outs of college football recruiting. he got in his cheap jab and knew all along what he was doing. 2 stories with 2 programs doing the same thing but one gets delivered in an entirely different light due to a **** named talty.
I'm sure Liggins had an option to gray shirt if he had wanted to. we did it early and even put out some feelers for him to go get other options. there is nothing different between the 2 scenarios.
the oxford high's coach said stupid things and talty legitimized them by offering no counter to what the coach said. talty could have let the readers know that these things happen often (including at ole miss and other schools) and that a h.s. coach black listing a SEC school does his players no favors at all. the whole article was meant to insinuate Mullen and his staff are cruel and don't play by the rules and don't care about the players. the lack of class was entirely on the oxford high coach and talty running with it. he does this knowing that the majority of those reading don't know the true ins and outs of college football recruiting. he got in his cheap jab and knew all along what he was doing. 2 stories with 2 programs doing the same thing but one gets delivered in an entirely different light due to a **** named talty.
Greyshirt in no way = scholarship. Its basically a 'preferred walk on'
Greyshirt says "Hey, come pay for your way for the fall and when the spring semester gets here, we will reevaluate things and may be able to give you a scholly then". Now, most coaches profess that 'greyshirt = scholarship in the spring' but it is in no way a commitment for it.
Greyshirt says "Hey, come pay for your way for the fall and when the spring semester gets here, we will reevaluate things and may be able to give you a scholly then". Now, most coaches profess that 'greyshirt = scholarship in the spring' but it is in no way a commitment for it.
I think Talty sucks. I can't really comment on where his bias (if he truly has one) is simply because I'm from the coast and have no reason to ever read the Clarion Ledger. But from what little I have read by him, he seems like some nerdy guy that didn't play sports but is now trying to make a career out of it. I'd definitely say that I was surprised when he made such a big deal out of the Liggins (DE from Oxford) situation. I think he caused such a big reaction simply to make press. Ultimately, he did what he was supposed to do, I guess.
I think the Clarion Ledger is the only "state" newspaper that has no problem at all running down their 2 big programs at a moment's notice. Don't get me wrong, they do post positive stuff for both universities. However, they seem to take the negative press side as much as possible. They are in it for one reason, to make themselves money. I can't fault them for that, either. I simply choose to not read their paper (and as I said, I really have no reason to anyways).
This story was covered in the press several months ago. So why is there now a need to run the story again?
Severe broken leg. May be a year or more before the kid hits the field. Ole Miss then asked the kid to take a greyshirt (promise of a scholarship after one semester) and he agreed. The high school coach thought it was a good idea too.
Totally different from the Liggins deal. No injury and no greyshirt offered. We just re-evaluated this fall and determined we can sign better players. So we dropped him.
Severe broken leg. May be a year or more before the kid hits the field. Ole Miss then asked the kid to take a greyshirt (promise of a scholarship after one semester) and he agreed. The high school coach thought it was a good idea too.
Totally different from the Liggins deal. No injury and no greyshirt offered. We just re-evaluated this fall and determined we can sign better players. So we dropped him.
Geez, calm down. I know you are only like 22 and know everything about everything, but pump the brakes a little. And yes, a Gray shirt doesn't necessarily promise a scholly. However, I can't think of a specific time where Ole Miss promised a gray shirt deal and didn't live up to our side of the bargain.
Also, a gray shirt does NOT MEAN PREFERRED WALK ON. Where did you get that from? Mike Marry was a gray shirt for us and he ended up being a 3 year starter for us. He was NEVER a walk on. He had a scholarship the whole time except for the first semester where he was only a partial student (less than 12 hours I think?).
Where do you get your info from???
Speaking of calming down...
Dude, you really are drinking the kool-aid. You really have no idea how the world outside of the University of Ole Miss works. I also love how you structured your comment. "I can't think of a specific time where Ole Miss promised a gray shirt deal and didn't live up to our side of the bargain." Well done. Perfect lawyer speak. First off, just because you cannot remembering it happening, does not mean it did not. And #2, UOM lived up to their side but the kid CHOSE to leave, huh? Think that might have come from a coach pulling the kid aside saying "son, its just not going to work out here, you would prob be better off at JSU".
And, part 2... Do you know what the word basically is? Gray shirt is 'basically' a preferred walk on. You do realize that walk ons earn scholarships all the time, correct? You have heard of this phenomenon? MSU has about 3 that started for us in the Egg Bowl. Just because they were once a walk on, does not mean that they shall forever be without a scholarship. They always have the right to EARN a scholarship... Just like a gray shirt. If all goes well and he progresses, the program will give him a scholarship in January. But, again, there is no commitment to anything but that. There is no secret contract. It is all on the student athlete, not the coach. Because, as you illustrated so beautifully, the coach can always allude to "we did our part, the player just did not live up to his end of the bargain"...
Dude, you really are drinking the kool-aid. You really have no idea how the world outside of the University of Ole Miss works. I also love how you structured your comment. "I can't think of a specific time where Ole Miss promised a gray shirt deal and didn't live up to our side of the bargain." Well done. Perfect lawyer speak. First off, just because you cannot remembering it happening, does not mean it did not. And #2, UOM lived up to their side but the kid CHOSE to leave, huh? Think that might have come from a coach pulling the kid aside saying "son, its just not going to work out here, you would prob be better off at JSU".
And, part 2... Do you know what the word basically is? Gray shirt is 'basically' a preferred walk on. You do realize that walk ons earn scholarships all the time, correct? You have heard of this phenomenon? MSU has about 3 that started for us in the Egg Bowl. Just because they were once a walk on, does not mean that they shall forever be without a scholarship. They always have the right to EARN a scholarship... Just like a gray shirt. If all goes well and he progresses, the program will give him a scholarship in January. But, again, there is no commitment to anything but that. There is no secret contract. It is all on the student athlete, not the coach. Because, as you illustrated so beautifully, the coach can always allude to "we did our part, the player just did not live up to his end of the bargain"...
I honestly think you are giving Talty way to much credit. I don't know that he was smart enough to "plan" all of that. Rather, he just didn't have the sense to question any of it. I think the one thing we all agree on here, is that the major difference is that Liggins' coach was pissed, and Pittman's coach was in agreement with Ole Miss. Therefore, the media slant. I still contend the situations are slightly different, but not enough so to make a major argument.
Agree to disagree. The way gray shirt has always been explained to me is that they delay their full-time enrollment until January, get to go through spring practice with 5 to play 4. They go on full scholarship in January. Maybe yall do it differently, but this is how it has worked here. If it was a walk on spot, why does the player sign an LOI in February? Ours always do. That binds us to the player and the player to us. Why would we essentially sign a walk on to an LOI and thus waste one of our spots?
You may want to review your history. This was essentially one of the reasons FOR the new rules. Y'all were gray shirting 10-20 kids this way. And to answer your question, it would only count against your number for this year. If the player did not go on scholarship, then you would have the ability to sign one more next year. THIS is classic UOM recruiting. You get to count the kid to win the recruiting national championship, then place the kid somewhere and then you get to resign him again.
And, the 5 to play 4 does not begin until the kid is full time enrolled and on the team (neither of which are accomplished in gray shirting). So, say the coach comes back to him in January and says "Well, we are going to honor the gray shirt we promised but not until Summer, or not until Fall.... you have to pay one more semester." Would you feel that the coach has 'upheld' his promise?
And, the 5 to play 4 does not begin until the kid is full time enrolled and on the team (neither of which are accomplished in gray shirting). So, say the coach comes back to him in January and says "Well, we are going to honor the gray shirt we promised but not until Summer, or not until Fall.... you have to pay one more semester." Would you feel that the coach has 'upheld' his promise?
You are wrong.
The reason for the rules change was because Nutt was just signing 700 kids all while knowing most of them were not going to qualify and a couple would gray shirt. The sign and place were the kickers that caused the rule change.
And 10-20 players??? REALLY??? Can you name them? Use the Rivals/247/Scout to help you out. I have followed Ole Miss recruiting since 2002. I don't recall a time where we didn't honor the scholarship. I may be wrong. I don't care if I am. I just want you to prove it. I can't think of a single case where this has happened. But, please continue to spout your infinite knowledge of Ole Miss recruiting.
1st. 10-20 players is a reference to the fact that you were 'signing' 40 players to a scholarship when you only had 25 commitments available. I ASSUMED that since UOM honors all of his commitments, you would be offering gray shirts to the rest of the players that you could not be giving scholarships to. Is that not correct?
And, no, I have no vast knowledge of "UOM" recruiting, I just know about college football recruiting. Unless UOM is truly performing outside the box of recruiting like the MSUs, Alabamas and other SEC teams where you have literally never dropped or not followed through with every commitment you made. This is apparently what you are alluding to with "I can't think of a single case where UOM didn't honor a scholarship". I would be willing to bet everything I own that its not hard to find many instances of this not being true. You may want to step away and re-read what you are saying there, buddy.
And, no, I have no vast knowledge of "UOM" recruiting, I just know about college football recruiting. Unless UOM is truly performing outside the box of recruiting like the MSUs, Alabamas and other SEC teams where you have literally never dropped or not followed through with every commitment you made. This is apparently what you are alluding to with "I can't think of a single case where UOM didn't honor a scholarship". I would be willing to bet everything I own that its not hard to find many instances of this not being true. You may want to step away and re-read what you are saying there, buddy.
Yes, that is where you are incorrect. Nutt signed a lot of those guys so that we could sign and place them. He knew some of them were JUCO all the way. I'm assuming he only did it to get a foot in the door with said prospects once they were eligible in 2 years. Not every kid was a gray shirt. Why would you offer a gray shirt to kids that they knew had no chance of qualifying? Just sign them and place them.
As to "not honoring every scholarship", each scholarship is technically a year to year basis. If a prospect doesn't qualify that year, the scholarship offer is null and void. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is what it is.
You act like teams offer a scholarship to a kid and it is valid for the rest of that kid's life.
Really ?? He came back and played this year....
[COLOR=</a]"One potential reason for the offer is Pittman suffered a broken fibula during a game in September. However, Pittman returned to play the last few games of his senior season and is expected to make a full recovery.[/COLOR]"
http://blogs.clarionledger.com/recr...an-says-no-to-grayshirt-offer-commits-to-ucf/
Not sure who you're referring to. Mikhail Miller? We honored his greyshirt. Anyways, if a school doesn't honor a greyshirt, the kid is welcome to sign wherever he wants. Pittman was told about the greyshirt 2 months ago and was okay with it until a school like UCF came calling.
One of my best friends in high school grey shirted for a FBS team. When the coaches came to visit him and his mother they explained to him that he would be enrolling at the school on his own accord, and if he learned the book and was able to get in the shape they wanted him in on his own he could "walk-on" in January and depending on how the next year's class came together and if some kids decided to stay at the school or not (i.e. transfer) or quit he would get a scholarship.
My buddy ended up getting a scholarship his sophomore year, and for him it worked out because he got a free Master's degree out of the deal... but for a lot of kids it doesn't work out like that.
A friend of mine at MSU came to the school as a kid otherwise promised a "grey shirt" and he never joined the team. It happens. But don't sit here and tell me that Ole Miss grey shirts kids every year and they 100% of the time become scholarship players 6 months later and become 3 year starters. If a kid isn't good enough to earn a scholarship outright immediately out of high school for your school but can at UAB or some other C-USA or Sun Belt team, don't promise him the world only if he is willing to take out loans. That's BS.
Where do you get YOUR information, dude? The grove? Freeze's sunday school?
My buddy ended up getting a scholarship his sophomore year, and for him it worked out because he got a free Master's degree out of the deal... but for a lot of kids it doesn't work out like that.
A friend of mine at MSU came to the school as a kid otherwise promised a "grey shirt" and he never joined the team. It happens. But don't sit here and tell me that Ole Miss grey shirts kids every year and they 100% of the time become scholarship players 6 months later and become 3 year starters. If a kid isn't good enough to earn a scholarship outright immediately out of high school for your school but can at UAB or some other C-USA or Sun Belt team, don't promise him the world only if he is willing to take out loans. That's BS.
Where do you get YOUR information, dude? The grove? Freeze's sunday school?
People sure bring up "Ole Miss signed 40 players a year a lot." We signed 37 one year. The year before that, State signed 34. Signing 32+ wasn't really uncommon then. UL Monroe signed 40 in 2005.