How well did GW pass in HS?
- Thread starter RUich
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As I recall he was somewhat of a disappointment at the Elite 11 Finals. Dilfer repeatedly spoke of his accuracy issues.
I's funny- when he came in here as a freshman- he looked like he would break on the first hit. Maybe even thinner than that other kid we brought in a few years ago. And now- almost every game- announcers talk about his size as being a big body to bring down. This kid just works hard.He got bigger too
And Butler may have been the bigger 2.0 then even GS
Yup. Fans are, in general, pretty fanatical. They aren't typically known for their calm rational evaluations of their chosen teams.
I mean, sure, it'd be nice to get a QB here at RU that can start as a true freshman and be near-perfect in every way. But those guys are super rare and, more often than not, are spotted early on and get taken by the elite programs. Which is made all the more likely to happen with NIL now.
On the plus side, NIL means it's become possible for non-elite programs to land some really rare players now and then. So RU can keep trying to work that angle.
So wait, is he a Junior, a redshirt Junior, a redshirt Sophomore... what? (@WhiteBus)
I'm a very naughty boy.
not sure how the qualifications work anymore lol but he has 2 years after this yearSo wait, is he a Junior, a redshirt Junior, a redshirt Sophomore... what? (@WhiteBus)
I'm a very naughty boy.
One thing I noticed on Saturday - i think it was nerves - looked like he was rushing everything. And I mean throws, getting the calls to OL, getting into his stance. Made the comment to the guys I sit with he needs to settle down
But we don't have 4 wins.
We already have 6 wins and bowl eligibility.
I'd 100% rather end the year 6-6 and have given GW room to work through mistakes than finish 7-5 (or still finish 6-6) and continue running the ball over 60% of the time.
That raises our ceiling for next year and gets a headstart on "opening up the offense" that most seem to agree.
Allows GW to work through things this year instead of next year.
The alternative is to wait and let him work through mistakes next season and potentially "have 4 wins at most".
More wins helps to build the program and elevate the entire program, including recruiting. Jeopardizing potential wins to elevate 1 player doesn’t make sense. Especially with the portal. Who’s to say any player on the current roster will be on the roster next year.
I also don't understand how throwing an extra 5 passes in a game is going to do anything anyway. The coaching staff sees the same things we see- I am going to take a far fletch guess that they are coming up with new ways every practice to try to correct his flaws.
We need to get wins- if we win with GW/KM getting us 250 on the ground and a crazy good defense- that is how we are going to win this year.
Seriously?
We average 23.8 pass attempts per game (#123 in the country).
Would you agree that QBs develop faster as they play and make more passes?
Putting those new ways to correct his flaws into real game situations and test them.
Suppose we increase just 10 extra passes per game for the next 3 games (which isn't a lot considering where we are starting at).
That's any extra 30 passes. That's literally an entire extra game of passes thrown.
Are you saying getting an extra game's worth of passing won't help his development?
Might not be popular but I'd look towards developing sustained success and not narrowly on this year.
I'd rather increase the chances of accelerating GWs development for next year (and beyond) and increase the odds of upsetting the top teams in the league going forward.
As said - we have already qualified for a bowl so the "only winning 4 games" is immaterial.
Same as when a team is eliminated from bowl contention - start playing the younger players and get them extra development time for the following year.
Develop in practice. Implement in games.
In 2007- we had 2 1000 yard WR's and a passer who threw for 3000 yards and averaged 28 passes a game
In 2008 - we were airing the hell out of it for an average of 30 passes a game.
And you want us to air it out more than either of those seasons?
And who are we taking those touches from? The B1G leading rusher? Those 10 touches are worth 50-60 yards in the hands of KM- those 5 completions may barely get those yards and most likely leads to more turnovers etc...
This is a off season problem to work on- not in game
After all, he IS performing as he did in HS if you extrapolate if HS was 37 games at least:
151 yd/game
1.77 TDs
I'd say we're getting exactly what we saw in him.
What did some of us expect him to come in here and double that ...lol
How exactly would this work?
Schiano to team & coaches......."Hey Guys, we're having the most success in over a decade - but we're going to change everything we've been doing successfully on offense this year and start slinging it all over the field instead. Doesn't matter if we win any more games, let's just work on it for next season. Seniors, you'll need to sit cause I now only care about developing players for next season. I'm afraid that if I don't do this now, we may not win more than 4 games next season."
I'm exaggerating - but do you not think that if a coach of a bowl team uses the last quarter of a season as some type of development trial - it would not be noticeable to current players, coaches, recruits etc. and that coach would pretty much lose credibility.
"Guys, we're one of the most unbalanced offenses in the country. It's worked so far but everyone would agree that a balanced offense is the key for our program to take the next level and compete for championships as soon as next year. We're going to start putting more on Wimsatts shoulders (and arm) and give him an opportunity to lead the team."
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Its crazy how the concept of giving our QB more of a passing responsibility is such a bizarre idea to people.
We average 23 passes a game (#123 out of 133).
Even if we tried to add 10 attempts per game that would only be approx 50th in the country. Not exactly "throwing it all over the place".
just reminded me of his post MSU speech of chopping "IT WORKED!!!!"
There is only one thing he is telling the team right now- keep doing what we are doing, protect the ball and keep chopping. He is reminding them that we gave Michigan it's hardest game to date- we went toe to toe with the number 1 team in the country last week.
I do expect he may try something early on saturday but 90% of the game is going to be what we do well.
agree that we do need to find a way to open things up to take the next step. But, very difficult to change at this point of he season when 2 of the next 3 are winnable with our current style of play
As much as I would love to see an exciting higher level of air attack as well......my point was that changing your offensive philosophy this late in the season for a team that has been doing well is not as simple as you are making it out to be. The WR group is certainly not elite and GW has accuracy issues which at least IMO seem to be from his mechanics. At the same time both the run blocking, as well as KM and GW running the ball have shown to be at an elite or near elite levels. The coaching staff has also not shown to be super creative in passing schemes. When you start putting that all together, does not sound like changing mid stream would lead to recipe for success. You claim it would be good development for GW.....it might also go horribly wrong as well. Confidence is everything for a QB, and losing it you pretty much risk losing the player at 19 years old. Some here don't care about that and want the back-up at all costs, for me I just don't see it that way. Gavin has shown the ability to hit passes in extrememly small windows at times. If I can see this the staff certainly can as well and they are likely trying to bring this out slowly while minimizing & correcting his mistakes.
The other thing- we are not losing national respect because of the boring game plan- the respect for our team has been climbing every single week.
Same with local kids- winning is so much more important to these kids...ok, right behind NIL lol but many still like winning and playing for a good program and school. Hard to believe, but true.
You can’t tell anything from that picture because you don’t know what type of pass he’s attempting.Pass blocking has been much better.
But there are other forms of pressure
If a QB looks at receiver and a DB or LB is over him in a flash then you know you cant take a lot of time.
Nova tended to underestimate how fast D1 secondary closed in on receivers.
He was used to throwing burners into coverage in HS where it worked.
Wimsatt is pretty smart imo and people underestimate how mental QB is.
They can see and notice things in a game that dont show on TV.
Some running QBs never get the mental down because they are always ready to scoot and aren't looking.
Gavin mentioned how Coach Rees at Notre Dame understood how things looked through QBs eyes
"Rees developing a relationship with Wimsatt played a major role in his interest with the Irish.
“He’s a great coach, great person,” Wimsatt said. “He actually played quarterback at Notre Dame, so that makes him different. He knows what everything looks like through a quarterback’s eyes. Even outside of football, because he was in that position at one point."
This (see pic) is also why he can overthrow sometimes - high release.
Drew Brees had a high release and it made up for being shorter - he got ball over LOS without blocks.
Gavin is high with long arms - touch an 8' ceiling and Wmtt can be releasing from that height. Doesn't mean he's a bad QB
This is what I posted over three weeks ago, in a thread where I was attacked for criticizing Gavin’s passing after a win.
I guess it is now cool to discuss his passing shortcomings. It wasn’t 3 weeks ago
“Let me plot this out for you: from a pure throwing perspective you can place accuracy and arm strength on an X and Y axis. As a young QB you want to be in the strong arm/accurate quadrant, the second best is not strong arm/accurate, followed by strong arm/not accurate and then not strong/not accurate.
Here’s why: touch is hard to develop but if you have a rocket arm you can be coached into taking some off certain throws to be more accurate. Gavin is not a hard thrower. So he can’t take some off of his passes to develop touch. He’ll never get the ball into windows. Forget about getting the ball to the sidelines. Can he get more accurate while maintaining or adding zip? Maybe, but it is really hard to do. Those are the kind of kids that usually don’t develop into star D1 QBs. And yes I’ve played and coached the game.
I do get the point that criticism of the kid when the team won is bad form, but my comments are still valid and correct.”
I guess it is now cool to discuss his passing shortcomings. It wasn’t 3 weeks ago
“Let me plot this out for you: from a pure throwing perspective you can place accuracy and arm strength on an X and Y axis. As a young QB you want to be in the strong arm/accurate quadrant, the second best is not strong arm/accurate, followed by strong arm/not accurate and then not strong/not accurate.
Here’s why: touch is hard to develop but if you have a rocket arm you can be coached into taking some off certain throws to be more accurate. Gavin is not a hard thrower. So he can’t take some off of his passes to develop touch. He’ll never get the ball into windows. Forget about getting the ball to the sidelines. Can he get more accurate while maintaining or adding zip? Maybe, but it is really hard to do. Those are the kind of kids that usually don’t develop into star D1 QBs. And yes I’ve played and coached the game.
I do get the point that criticism of the kid when the team won is bad form, but my comments are still valid and correct.”
He did not start his freshmen year. I just looked. So it was sophomore, junior, and 4 games his senior year.
We’ve already exceeded expectations this year, running the offense/defensive game plans as they currently are. We shouldn’t change the philosophy at this point. If we aspire to beat the BiG teams in the top third of the league next year, the we will need an effective passing game. That will entail upgrading production from the QB and WRs.
He has a strong arm. Just needs to work on accuracy. He can for balls into windows when he becomes more accurate.
I saw he had a high release from watching the games.
The pics were for thread.
High throws and high release go hand-in-hand.
Its not really possible to throw high w/out a high release
A high release isn't always a bad thing either.
With Wmstt you just have a looong arm to boot.
Russians know who will be a good ballet dancer when they are little kids.
The best swimmers have long torsos and short legs (see Phelps).
Anatomy is a factor and that's hard to change for better or worse.
In football they say "low man wins'"
Some very tall OL/FL have a hard time playing low and they make-up for it as best they can.
A lot of tall people are taller because of longer legs so squatting is hard.
When the tall lineman are tired etc the anatomical factors that have been compensated for show-up.
When Wimsatt pushes too hard the long arm can show.
That can get better with time.
In recent years RU had QBs that couldn't even throw long and defenses knew it (making running harder)
Just the fact Wmstt can throw long helps stretch defense even without a completion.
Taller WRs help on the longer passes and I'm sure Schiano is looking that way
The fact Wmstt runs so well might also show better,
Once he's in open areas he's like a bullet train with the long strides.
I'm not saying he's an NFL QB but I can see him getting better.
I had a HS QB who had a mediocre arm but by Jr year of college he threw so hard you could hear passes coming (Namath was like that).
He played 7 yrs in pros
10 extra passes, assume 50% completion means at least 5 plays for no gain (not including INT and sacks) which could stall drives, resulting in less TOP, more time on the field for our defense and more opportunities for the opponents to score. Those extra 10 passes this year have a much higher probability of hurting us instead of helping.
I get the points but are you talking about the same QB...
Gavin has problems throwing high, we get that. But way too often it is also because he is throwing too hard. The longer passes you see that seem to float - well, that was him taking something off his passes.
Never into windows or sideline- have you actually watched the games- he has quite a few NFL type throws to the sideline and into windows.
Again- he is not accurate but on almost every specific point you made, you were, well, wrong.