I'm confused. Is it still Stansbury's fault?
- Thread starter myusernamesucks
- Start date
Stansbury is responsible until Ray signs a player who could start for Delta State
Yes it is still his fault. And yes, no matter how bad it gets, we had to make the move to fire him. So the party line goes..
Stansbury may have been a lot of things, but a loser was not one of them. Love him or hate him, after another couple years of this ****, you guys are going to look back and eventually realize that he was one of the best coaches that this program has ever had
These are the only times that it would be fun to have C34 still around. The posts calling him out would be stupendous.
I agree and still think Stans had to go but believing we could attract top coaching talent was a joke. Always questioned that idea. What a nasty double edged sword MSU landed on.
I agree and still think Stans had to go but believing we could attract top coaching talent was a joke. Always questioned that idea. What a nasty double edged sword MSU landed on.
I vote to make someone besides Stansbury in charge of signing new players.
olblue and Coach34,
We fired Stansbury. What next? Please help. Your advice is awesome.
I'm ready for a coach who isn't happy with 2nd round losses!!!
MHMD
olblue and Coach34,
We fired Stansbury. What next? Please help. Your advice is awesome.
I'm ready for a coach who isn't happy with 2nd round losses!!!
MHMD
MSU (with the help of Stansbury) only has conference winning records vs. Georgia, South Carolina, and Ole Miss in her entire history.
Stansbury had winning records vs. Alabama (15-11), Auburn(14-10), LSU(16-11), Georgia(9-6), Ole Miss(18-7!), South Carolina (10-5), and Vanderbilt (10-6). Beat UK/refs 4 times, was 7-8 vs. Florida, 13-13 vs. Arkansas. 5-9 vs. UT.
.... but he could NOT make it to the Sweet 16 by damn. Another aside, the SEC wasn't very good at basketball like they are now.
He had multiple headcases that he poorly managed; in Renardo's case, horribly. His x and o skills were below average, but he attracted great players which unfortunately included their attitudes. Personally, I was satisfied with 2nd round losses. I wanted more, but was still satisfied with his overall program. I was a season ticket holder. Coach34 et al were not satisfied. They got their wish. I save money on basketball tickets. Enjoy.
Stansbury had winning records vs. Alabama (15-11), Auburn(14-10), LSU(16-11), Georgia(9-6), Ole Miss(18-7!), South Carolina (10-5), and Vanderbilt (10-6). Beat UK/refs 4 times, was 7-8 vs. Florida, 13-13 vs. Arkansas. 5-9 vs. UT.
.... but he could NOT make it to the Sweet 16 by damn. Another aside, the SEC wasn't very good at basketball like they are now.
He had multiple headcases that he poorly managed; in Renardo's case, horribly. His x and o skills were below average, but he attracted great players which unfortunately included their attitudes. Personally, I was satisfied with 2nd round losses. I wanted more, but was still satisfied with his overall program. I was a season ticket holder. Coach34 et al were not satisfied. They got their wish. I save money on basketball tickets. Enjoy.
Wrong, firing him may have been needed at some time, but the timing was wrong. Short leash, sign the class he had lined up, if it is a train wreck then let him go and at least whoever comes in has something to work with. This is an absolute disaster train wreck dumpster fire. No way this turns around for years to come.
To all the delusional state fans
After reading post after post by morons like coach34etc regarding stansbury, I finally decided to make a screenname and actually post on here. I only want to make one point: Who can we bring in that will be more successful? Generally speaking, people take jobs for 3 reasons: 1. location 2. prestige 3.money.
State is lacking in all three:
1. Location: For the most part, nobody outside of Mississippi wants to move to Mississippi and especially not Starkville (home of strip malls and fast food restaurants). Don't get me wrong I love both Starkville and MS butit hasabsolutely no outside appeal.
2. Prestige:State is not exactly a dynasty, 10 NCAA tournament appearances ever....(BTW, Stans has 6 of those). In addition, SEC is the 4th to 5th best conference in the country. It's not like football, where the chance to coach in the SEC is a big selling point.
3. Money: MSU has one of the smallest athletic budgets of the 4th to 5th best conference. We will never be able to offer big time money to a coach.
I'm tired of hearing"we dont need to settle on medicocrity" and all the other cliches fromall the Stans haters. Youhad one too many inspirational posters in your room when you were in high school. You need to realize that Stans has brought a terrible basketball program tremendous success and firing him will result in either 2 things: 1. we bring in a worse coach and we don't compete at all(please see the other SECwest basketball programs)or 2. we bring in a successful coach that leaves after 2 years for bigger and better things (please see Greg Byrne) and then we don't compete at all.
I posted this almost 4 years ago. Another thing that really bothers me is that we continually blame Strickland for the hire. Do you think Ray was his first choice? How many coaches turned down our job before he had to settle on Ray? I believe it came down to Kenny Payne at UK and Ray because we couldn't attract any others. Stop blaming Stans for this, stop blaming Strick for this.....blame yourselves for being ignorant stupid *****.
After reading post after post by morons like coach34etc regarding stansbury, I finally decided to make a screenname and actually post on here. I only want to make one point: Who can we bring in that will be more successful? Generally speaking, people take jobs for 3 reasons: 1. location 2. prestige 3.money.
State is lacking in all three:
1. Location: For the most part, nobody outside of Mississippi wants to move to Mississippi and especially not Starkville (home of strip malls and fast food restaurants). Don't get me wrong I love both Starkville and MS butit hasabsolutely no outside appeal.
2. Prestige:State is not exactly a dynasty, 10 NCAA tournament appearances ever....(BTW, Stans has 6 of those). In addition, SEC is the 4th to 5th best conference in the country. It's not like football, where the chance to coach in the SEC is a big selling point.
3. Money: MSU has one of the smallest athletic budgets of the 4th to 5th best conference. We will never be able to offer big time money to a coach.
I'm tired of hearing"we dont need to settle on medicocrity" and all the other cliches fromall the Stans haters. Youhad one too many inspirational posters in your room when you were in high school. You need to realize that Stans has brought a terrible basketball program tremendous success and firing him will result in either 2 things: 1. we bring in a worse coach and we don't compete at all(please see the other SECwest basketball programs)or 2. we bring in a successful coach that leaves after 2 years for bigger and better things (please see Greg Byrne) and then we don't compete at all.
I posted this almost 4 years ago. Another thing that really bothers me is that we continually blame Strickland for the hire. Do you think Ray was his first choice? How many coaches turned down our job before he had to settle on Ray? I believe it came down to Kenny Payne at UK and Ray because we couldn't attract any others. Stop blaming Stans for this, stop blaming Strick for this.....blame yourselves for being ignorant stupid *****.
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Second round losses were fine with me too. The problem was that Stansbury was not even getting to the NCAA tourney toward the end of his run, hence the firing.
When he was getting us in the Dance, I was a huge Stansbury fan but it was brutal watching us lose to crap teams with with superior talent.
Again, the hire of Ray is the problem and not the firing of Stansbury.
When he was getting us in the Dance, I was a huge Stansbury fan but it was brutal watching us lose to crap teams with with superior talent.
Again, the hire of Ray is the problem and not the firing of Stansbury.
Yup. Strick got the firing part right but failed on the hiring. I hate it too because I really wanted RR to succeed. But he won't if he can't recruit.
Exactly. As long as Stasnsbury got us to the tournament on a semi-regular basis - he could have stayed coach at Mississippi State forever. The last 7 years of his tenure - he didn't. And then add the implosion of his last season on top of that going from a top 15 team to not making the tournament.
I've been buying that the timing was wrong for about a year now. Should have either fired him a year earlier (after the Hawaii debacle) or given him 1 last chance to salvage our program with Sidney gone. Our program was an embarrassment the last couple of years under Stans. Now it's just at rock bottom. I like Ray and I hope he can get the job done. But if we don't see some real signs of improvement next year, it needs to be his last one.
He has to go down as #2 after Babe McCarthy, who was also run off. We can't get out of our own way.
There are lots of mid-major schools in crappy locations, with little prestige, and with a lot less money than us that put out far better basketball teams than this one or late-Stansbury. I'm not blaming Strick, Stans, or Ray necessarily--but there's no reason we shouldn't expect a hell of a lot better than what we've seen in the last 3-4 years.
His last seven years, he went to the NCAA's twice and the NIT three times. There have only been three other seven year periods better in the entire history of the program, and one of them was coached by Stansbury and one of them was in the 60's. Stansbury had 60 SEC wins during those seven years. When will that happen again? Stansbury won an SEC Tournament and made the final in another in those seven years. When will that happen again?
Those standards were never realistic, but more importantly, how in the heck can we still be trying to apply them? Ray has virtually no chance of ever matching Stansbury's last seven years, much less his first.
Those standards were never realistic, but more importantly, how in the heck can we still be trying to apply them? Ray has virtually no chance of ever matching Stansbury's last seven years, much less his first.
Small correction ...
Mississippi State has been to NCAAs 10 times. In his last seven years, Stans took his team twice.
Also ... of the 10 total times, MSU has been to the NCAAT, Stans was the lead assistand, head recruiter for 2, including the Final 4 in '96 and he was the HC for 6 of the 10.
Bottom line ... he was a major part of 8 of the total 10 times.
Mississippi State has been to NCAAs 10 times. In his last seven years, Stans took his team twice.
Also ... of the 10 total times, MSU has been to the NCAAT, Stans was the lead assistand, head recruiter for 2, including the Final 4 in '96 and he was the HC for 6 of the 10.
Bottom line ... he was a major part of 8 of the total 10 times.
Even though it's nice to make the NCAA tourney by winning the SEC Tournament - our team wasn't good enough to make it by it's regular season resume. So in reality - Stansbury only had 1 team in his last 7 that was considered successful by my standard.
Stansbury's first 2 years - we had one NIT bid so Ray matching Stansbury's first two isn't that far behind. Now will Ray match what Stansbury did - I highly doubt it. But still, it was time for a change. I'm not comparing Stansbury vs Ray. My point is - Stansbury just wasn't winning enough. If our goal is to be a NIT program - then lets close up shop.
Stansbury's first 2 years - we had one NIT bid so Ray matching Stansbury's first two isn't that far behind. Now will Ray match what Stansbury did - I highly doubt it. But still, it was time for a change. I'm not comparing Stansbury vs Ray. My point is - Stansbury just wasn't winning enough. If our goal is to be a NIT program - then lets close up shop.
I don't count 2 out of the last 7 years a semi-regular basis. And with one being we had to win the SEC Tournament.
Talking with 8dog about this - he makes a good point. There's a lot of successful mid major coaches that come to the SEC and suck. Suck bad. It could be the nature of SEC basketball. It just sucks at this moment.
When I think back to a few of my debates with C34 from years past, I never disputed the fact that Stansbury had his faults. The question that I always asked, however, is whether you're willing to risk solid recruiting, talent, and good defense/rebounding in order to hopefully get a better Xs and Os coach. C34's golden response was... "WHY DON'T WE JUST GET A COACH THAT CAN DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS?!*!!*!*!?
Well... you guys let me know when Bill Self comes knocking on our door
Well... you guys let me know when Bill Self comes knocking on our door
I'm 100% positive its the officiating and the culture of the game in this league
The SEC refs have allowed its teams to basically play football on the court for the last 2 decades. Playing this way negates the need for actual fundamental basketball. But when you get out of the league and other refs call the game normally, that style of play is screwed. And if you are in the league, unless you have much better players (see: UF), you are screwed if you don't play that style of ball because the other team will just punch you in the face until you lose.
ETA: as proof of the validity of my opinion, I offer up Rod Barnes. That guy made his entire career based on just having his players beat the **** out of the other team's offense.
The SEC refs have allowed its teams to basically play football on the court for the last 2 decades. Playing this way negates the need for actual fundamental basketball. But when you get out of the league and other refs call the game normally, that style of play is screwed. And if you are in the league, unless you have much better players (see: UF), you are screwed if you don't play that style of ball because the other team will just punch you in the face until you lose.
ETA: as proof of the validity of my opinion, I offer up Rod Barnes. That guy made his entire career based on just having his players beat the **** out of the other team's offense.
Stansbury's situation was sort of similar to that of Sherrill and Polk. All three will go down as among the MSU coaching greats but as in any level of coaching, you are only as good as your last couple of years. An SEC title game, a College World Series, or a Final Four does not earn you a lifetime position.
Of all the things that had been staring us in the face over the years, this is the one thing that I think our fanbase chose overlook more than anything else. Programs with a lot more prestige and money than us(Arkansas, Auburn, and Georgia for example) have all severely struggled during the last decade. My point in mentioning that is that we can sit back and say "we deserve this" or "we should be accomplishing that" all day long, but the reality is that it's not as easy to have a successful basketball program as we all pretend it to be, even in a fairly weak conference like the SEC.
How many times has some young coach(Trent Johnson, John Pelphrey, Anthony Grant...) come in to take over an SEC program during the last few years and as soon as they saw some modicum of success, everyone's screaming "why can't State get a coach like that?!?!?!" Well, how did all those guys do after you gave them a few years? Hell, grant was supposed to be a star and what exactly has he accomplished with Bama basketball?
Anyway, some of you guys can kid yourselves with high expectations all that you want, but if you wanted a crystal ball to see what we'd be post-Stansbury, you actually had it right in front of you all along. It was the rest of the conference
Beat the dead horse ...
again and again ... but with the absolute smallest BB budget and last to get a practice facility, the one thing that stood out for most of the last 25 years was Rick Stansbury recruiting. No, he didn't win most recruiting BUT nobody in the SEC spent more time or effort building player relationships.
He was not the best X & Os coach and he lost control of the team but in the end he convinced a lot of basketball players to come to Starkville and play for State.
Rick Ray may turn out to be a great X & Os coach; many have pointed out how much his teams hussle; he may be a 'build character' coach ... BUT, if he can't bring in players that can shoot, he won't be successful at Mississippi State.
again and again ... but with the absolute smallest BB budget and last to get a practice facility, the one thing that stood out for most of the last 25 years was Rick Stansbury recruiting. No, he didn't win most recruiting BUT nobody in the SEC spent more time or effort building player relationships.
He was not the best X & Os coach and he lost control of the team but in the end he convinced a lot of basketball players to come to Starkville and play for State.
Rick Ray may turn out to be a great X & Os coach; many have pointed out how much his teams hussle; he may be a 'build character' coach ... BUT, if he can't bring in players that can shoot, he won't be successful at Mississippi State.
The flip side of that coin is that whatever he did to recruit these guys kept him from being able to show them the door when they started embarrassing the university (see: Sidney, Renardo).
Andre Stringer, Devonte Pollard, Tyler Adams, Johnny O'Bryant, Laquinton Ross were all MS guys who went elsewhere.
He wasn't even recruiting well toward the end of his tenure. No one respected him anymore and we became a joke. It was was time for him to go.
Guess it's a matter of perspective ...
I started attending games in the 'old gym' toward the end of Babe's tenure and I didn't miss many home games during the MSU coaching of ...
Joe Dan Gold
Kermit Davis
Ron Greene
Jim Hatfield
Bob Boyd
Richard Williams
Granted, its a LOT easier to get to the NCAAT today than in those years ... BUT, 28 years between NCAA tournaments is a LONG time and definitely changes one's perspective.
I started attending games in the 'old gym' toward the end of Babe's tenure and I didn't miss many home games during the MSU coaching of ...
Joe Dan Gold
Kermit Davis
Ron Greene
Jim Hatfield
Bob Boyd
Richard Williams
Granted, its a LOT easier to get to the NCAAT today than in those years ... BUT, 28 years between NCAA tournaments is a LONG time and definitely changes one's perspective.
Getting to the NCAA's but only by winning the tournament? Not good enough? Rick Ray has a heck of a standard to live up to. I guess it is time to close up shop. I don't know how we can even talk about being an NIT program not being good enough. That is like me saying that I won't date lingere models because I only date super models. Neither one are returning my calls.
p.s. In his first two years, Stansbury signed Derrick Zimmerman, Antonio Jackson, Timmy Bowers, and Mario Austin.
p.s. In his first two years, Stansbury signed Derrick Zimmerman, Antonio Jackson, Timmy Bowers, and Mario Austin.
The argument against Stansbury was more similar to the argument against Mullen, i.e. he's making it to bowls, but not the bowls we'd prefer, and he's not winning the big games.
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I also do not feel like discounting those SEC Tournament results. People forget about the seven years in a row that we lost our first round game in the tournament, even when we were first seed.