agree, with this. Stans should have had 1 more year to get us back on track. If we suck as bad as last night the rest of the season, I say fire Him and re-group.
I'm confused. Is it still Stansbury's fault?
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agree, with this. Stans should have had 1 more year to get us back on track. If we suck as bad as last night the rest of the season, I say fire Him and re-group.
What Stricklin is doing with Ray is on a smaller scale similar to what Florida is doing with Muschamp. They were hired to clean up a publicly perceived out-of-control program that lets its players run aloof. Ray has done that and so has Muschamp in this regard. Both coaches are struggling, but both are going to get their fair chance at succeeding. As Foley said of Muschamp after this year something along the lines of Why would I fire him when he's doing what I hired him to do. Muschamp will definitely be on a shorter leash with it being SEC football and UF, but Ray deserves 5 years.
No doubt it
was time for Stansbury to go, but what we are going through now is in no way his fault.
was time for Stansbury to go, but what we are going through now is in no way his fault.
Which was actually his 9th and 10th years of recruiting at/for MSU in a primary role. Hardly apples to apples.
Thank you Sir. You must be My age. I have been preaching this same sermon to My young MSU friends but they just don't get it.
So we can expect some good recruiting classes from Ray in years 9 and 10?
It is most definitely apples to apples. They are doing exactly the same job. If Ray is less prepared for the job than Stansbury, then he compares poorly.
It is most definitely apples to apples. They are doing exactly the same job. If Ray is less prepared for the job than Stansbury, then he compares poorly.
Name a mid-major in a crappy location that has had any kind of consistent success. If you look, you'll find that the good mid-major programs are out west, in or near urban areas, or in states that have a long basketball tradition such as in the midwest.
Name one mid-major school from a small town in the Deep South that has been successful.
Name one mid-major school from a small town in the Deep South that has been successful.
Not in years one or two, there doesn't. What Ray does in year 3 will define him, and I'm sure he's completely aware of this. If we are not a NIT team next year, it will be time to go another direction IMO.
2 years to rebuild -- then Stansbury expectations from that point forward. That's been my position from the start.
The last month has sucked. No one denies it. Now it appears the team is starting to quit on him. Not good -- and badly foreboding if you let yourself get hung up on it(I admit, it's easy to -- I can overlook the losing, but quitting is MUCH more difficult to swallow). The point is to not let yourself get hung up on bs during what most considered a throw-away year -- lest you become a 2010 MSU baseball fan and start clamoring for Polk/Raffo(I was "concerned" when that team QUIT on Cohen down the stretch as well -- but managed to reminded myself of the previous "throw away season" approach -- and circled 2011 as the year that would tell the story either way).
By this time next year, we will have our answer on Ray.
It's not even close to apples-to-apples -- it's just agenda-skewing against Ray because the coach you are supporting was able to build relationships and "his team" for damn near a decade before he took over as head coach. It's common sense that he would recruit better on the front end given that -- regardless of whether or not he was actually a better recruiter.
Phil Cunningham would have recruited better than Ray on the front end too. Doesn't mean that was the right direction to go.
One of us has to skew one way or the other if we are not going to apply the same standards to the two coaches doing exactly the same job. But I actually agree that it would be unfair to judge Ray against Stansbury's record. We didn't fire Stans to hire Ray. We fired Stans, and ended up hiring Ray.
I'm a little confused by your various positions. You do not expect Ray to be able to come in and recruit like Stansbury in years one and two due to his lack of experience in recruiting, but you do expect Ray to start having Stansbury-level success in year three? Those two things seem to be contradictory.
VCU, while in a bigger city than Starkville, has enjoyed considerable success. Smart isn't staying there just because Richmond is so awesome. Plus, we're within striking distance of Memphis, Birmingham, New Orleans, and Atlanta. We get plenty of football players from there. I don't see the urban/rural thing as making that much of a difference.
I think you're hearing me say "we should be Wichita State." That's not what I mean. I'm simply rejecting the post that implies our location, prestige, and money prevent us from expecting more than we're getting now. We aren't doomed like the other poster (not you) was implying.
We pay Ray $1,000,000 and would certainly go up with success. That's more than a lot of schools already and carries plenty of "prestige" (which is only as good as it's ability to translate into dollars anyway).
For the record, I liked Stansbury. He's one of my favorite coaches all time at State, though I hate the way the end of his tenure went down. I also see a lot to like in Ray and hope he can get it done. I think we'll see notable improvement next year.
I think you're hearing me say "we should be Wichita State." That's not what I mean. I'm simply rejecting the post that implies our location, prestige, and money prevent us from expecting more than we're getting now. We aren't doomed like the other poster (not you) was implying.
We pay Ray $1,000,000 and would certainly go up with success. That's more than a lot of schools already and carries plenty of "prestige" (which is only as good as it's ability to translate into dollars anyway).
For the record, I liked Stansbury. He's one of my favorite coaches all time at State, though I hate the way the end of his tenure went down. I also see a lot to like in Ray and hope he can get it done. I think we'll see notable improvement next year.
Exactly.
Renardo's fat *** was gone & whether any of the haters will admit it, he was the cancer that brought down our program....not Stansbury. The message board warriors thought we could go hire a monkey though & we'd automatically be Sweet 16 bound every year. Because, afterall, Stansbury sucked that bad.
Renardo's fat *** was gone & whether any of the haters will admit it, he was the cancer that brought down our program....not Stansbury. The message board warriors thought we could go hire a monkey though & we'd automatically be Sweet 16 bound every year. Because, afterall, Stansbury sucked that bad.
Stansbury had an opportunity to rid himself of Sidney after the fight. He chose the wrong option and it lost him his job. And if I was Stansbury, I probably would have chosen to keep Sidney as well.
I'm not so sure he could have done that..
Renardo was a loose cannon. There's no telling how far under the bus MSU would have been thrown. He should have been gone after that, no doubt about it, I just don't think the skeletons would allow it.
Renardo was a loose cannon. There's no telling how far under the bus MSU would have been thrown. He should have been gone after that, no doubt about it, I just don't think the skeletons would allow it.
Agree. If your standard is NCAA tournament appearances, then SEC tourney championships count. Otherwise, you get into the "what if" game. What if we hadn't won the SEC tournament. So 17ing what? We DID win the SEC tournament and we DID make the NCAA tournament.
Yes. If he learned how to manage egos, effectively discipline his players, and hired an x's and o's coach he would still be here. Since he was bound and determined to not give his assistants any power to help, he lost the team, majority of the fans, and was fired. I blame him for not making the necessary adjustments needed and continuing to push the program forward.
Well, basketball sucks right now. I wish Rick Ray could be successful. I really like him. However, I don't see it. I have an optimistic point of view though. The guy after the guy is rarely successful. The next guy usually gets it done.
Does that make sense? No, probably not.
Does that make sense? No, probably not.
The Richmond metropolitan area has half of the population of the entire State of Mississippi, and VCU is actually in the city. MSU is not located in any of Mississippi's metropolitan areas. And the State of Virginia has other large metropolitan areas, including portions of the DC area, and has 8 million people. In other words, it produces more basketball players.
I don't think we're doomed by any stretch of the imagination. I do think we should temper our expectations if they are that we should be in the NCAA tournament most years. I do not think that comparisons to the top mid-majors is a good comparison. In fact, VCU is a good example. They have every advantage a basketball school can have over MSU except for the size of their conference.
I didn't think we should have fired Stansbury. At the same time, I like Ray and want him to do well. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I do think our recruiting has to get much better and hope Ray can do it.
I don't think we're doomed by any stretch of the imagination. I do think we should temper our expectations if they are that we should be in the NCAA tournament most years. I do not think that comparisons to the top mid-majors is a good comparison. In fact, VCU is a good example. They have every advantage a basketball school can have over MSU except for the size of their conference.
I didn't think we should have fired Stansbury. At the same time, I like Ray and want him to do well. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I do think our recruiting has to get much better and hope Ray can do it.
My disagreement is more with Daledawg than with you. But a few quick points.
That's true, of course, but VCU recruits nationally. They have 2 players from the Richmond area, 2 from DC metro, 2 from Norfolk, and 1 from rural north Virginia. The rest of the roster is from rural Tennessee, rural south Florida, Forsyth GA (half way between Atlanta and Macon), NYC, Miami, Winston-Salem NC, Cincinnati, and Columbia SC. They definitely have a nice recruiting base in their area, but it that's not the only reason they're succeeding.
Here we agree I think. Daledawg stated that because of money, prestige, and location there are two post-Stans options: "1. we bring in a worse coach and we don't compete at all(please see the other SECwest basketball programs)or 2. we bring in a successful coach that leaves after 2 years for bigger and better things (please see Greg Byrne) and then we don't compete at all." I don't accept that at all.
I probably should have gone with my USM example. My point isn't about "top" mid-majors but the many other mid-majors that are putting out basketball teams better than ours without our money, prestige, or location. I'd be happy to trade teams with Southern for the last couple of years. Long term, however, there's no reason Ray--or if not him, someone else--can't build us up to that moderate level of success.
I pretty much agree here. I'm more ambivalent about the Stansbury's last few years, but I still appreciate his tenure as a whole. And if Ray can recruit, there's no reason he can't build us into a decent to good team--perhaps even better.
That's true, of course, but VCU recruits nationally. They have 2 players from the Richmond area, 2 from DC metro, 2 from Norfolk, and 1 from rural north Virginia. The rest of the roster is from rural Tennessee, rural south Florida, Forsyth GA (half way between Atlanta and Macon), NYC, Miami, Winston-Salem NC, Cincinnati, and Columbia SC. They definitely have a nice recruiting base in their area, but it that's not the only reason they're succeeding.
Here we agree I think. Daledawg stated that because of money, prestige, and location there are two post-Stans options: "1. we bring in a worse coach and we don't compete at all(please see the other SECwest basketball programs)or 2. we bring in a successful coach that leaves after 2 years for bigger and better things (please see Greg Byrne) and then we don't compete at all." I don't accept that at all.
I probably should have gone with my USM example. My point isn't about "top" mid-majors but the many other mid-majors that are putting out basketball teams better than ours without our money, prestige, or location. I'd be happy to trade teams with Southern for the last couple of years. Long term, however, there's no reason Ray--or if not him, someone else--can't build us up to that moderate level of success.
I pretty much agree here. I'm more ambivalent about the Stansbury's last few years, but I still appreciate his tenure as a whole. And if Ray can recruit, there's no reason he can't build us into a decent to good team--perhaps even better.
They are only contradictory if you directly relate recruiting "stars" as the singular factor defining on-court success -- while completely ignoring development, experience, effort, and schematic aspects of a basketball program. Mullen doesn't yet recruit like Sherrill did. That hasn't caused him to be any less successful.
The last couple of weeks have been brutal. No doubt. But if you remove emotion from it and look practically there are simply a couple of achilles heels preventing our success right now that teams have learned how to exploit as the year has gone along. It goes back to simply being a couple of pieces away from being a competitive team -- and the case could easily be made that Ray expected to have those pieces in place until it was far too late this year to fix the problem. He thought we would have Applewhite, Lewis, and Steele. Lewis and Steele are the two MAJOR factors that this team is missing right now with a second post presence and a true shooter. Can we get/develop a shooter? Can Sword learn to hit a jump shot at all to get back his driving lanes? Can Fred Thomas continue to develop as a shooter? Can we figure out how to get Ready open for additional shots? Can we get some length on the floor and improve our rebounding? Can we learn to create our own shots outside of Steele driving?
There are alot of legitimate questions there that we've just got to wait till next year to learn the answer to. Prognosticating right now on the future on the backs of a bunch of shitburger games is just pointless. As pointless as it was when Cohen threw together a 3-16 run to finish up his second year at MSU.
The bottom line is -- next year, we will know one way or another on Ray -- and we can choose a direction from that. His free pass and honeymoon will be over -- and it will be time to field a 20+ win NIT team(at least) or time to get out.
As an Ole Miss fan, I wouldn't want Stans at AU.
We have seen how AU can recruit on the football field with help from their boosters. Do you think that Stans wouldn't be able to recruit the Mario Austin's of the world to AU? Screw that.
We have seen how AU can recruit on the football field with help from their boosters. Do you think that Stans wouldn't be able to recruit the Mario Austin's of the world to AU? Screw that.
According to my turrible sources there may be something cooking with
Auburn/USM and I agree with you. Talent trumps coaching and Stan's knows how to put talent on the bench but he does struggle with the x's and o's. Hypothetically if he went to Auburn and hired a great x and o guy to work with him it could be a tough combination. He was too stubborn to do that at MSU which he was asked to do. He may have seen the light.
Auburn/USM and I agree with you. Talent trumps coaching and Stan's knows how to put talent on the bench but he does struggle with the x's and o's. Hypothetically if he went to Auburn and hired a great x and o guy to work with him it could be a tough combination. He was too stubborn to do that at MSU which he was asked to do. He may have seen the light.
I BLAME YOUR MOTHER**
But seriously, if you can't tell that Rick Ray is a better coach than Stans, you need hepp. Not directed at any one in general, just the one's who can't see IT.
But seriously, if you can't tell that Rick Ray is a better coach than Stans, you need hepp. Not directed at any one in general, just the one's who can't see IT.
If the guys we've signed may be the Zimmerman, Bowers, and Austin for Ray, and we just don't know it yet, then I'll be ecstatic. But that didn't seem to be what you were saying earlier.
Didn't Ray basically push Steele out?
Didn't Ray basically push Steele out?
It is amazing when a REB can see the truth but our fans are blinded by dumbassedity
"My point isn't about "top" mid-majors but the many other mid-majors that are putting out basketball teams better than ours without our money, prestige, or location."
Without our money, prestige, or location? You have to be kidding. Money I can agree with partly. But prestige and location? Let this sink in: We do not have prestige when it comes to basketball. The SEC does not have prestige when it comes to basketball. Football's dominance in our conference does not give some sort of halo effect onto basketball. Lastly, we do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to anything related to Starkville.
Those of us who have lived in Starkville know the qualities and great things about the town and area and we can talk about them until we are blue in the face. I do it all the time. But the fact of the matter is that looking at statistics on the area including population, amenities, schools, etc. will continue to not give us a positive effect.
Without our money, prestige, or location? You have to be kidding. Money I can agree with partly. But prestige and location? Let this sink in: We do not have prestige when it comes to basketball. The SEC does not have prestige when it comes to basketball. Football's dominance in our conference does not give some sort of halo effect onto basketball. Lastly, we do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to anything related to Starkville.
Those of us who have lived in Starkville know the qualities and great things about the town and area and we can talk about them until we are blue in the face. I do it all the time. But the fact of the matter is that looking at statistics on the area including population, amenities, schools, etc. will continue to not give us a positive effect.
They don't have to be "those guys" for us to be successful as a team...
Steele was cleared to play -- but wanted to redshirt. Ray wasn't going to let him redshirt because that scholarship had already been promised away for the next year. So he transferred. He and Lewis' drug test failures were just the final examples in the "me-first" culture that had permeated our program for the past several years.