Increase of playoffs from 4 to 12 killed Big 12 conference

WVUALLEN

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Aug 4, 2009
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OU was winning and making playoffs with only 4 spots available. Increase to 12 spots. SEC says come make 20 million more and we'll get 6 teams in. They may play a tougher SEC schedule but if they win 9 they could get in anyway. Texas is not wining anything in the past dozen years so it was an easy decision for them. We're losing in Big 12 might as well lose and in SEC make more money.
 

Charleston Mountie

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Is there any scenario where the BIG12 survives, and under this optimal hypothetical would WVU choose to remain in it?
As far as the Big-12 is concerned, it is all pretty easy to forecast on what is to come next.

The exit by Texas and Oklahoma is in the legal system now and not something the Big-12 can really effect outside of instructions. A pay out will be agreed to and both Texas and Oklahoma will only spend one more year in the Big-12, leaving on July 1 2022.

How that payout is determine and how it is paid is a big chore.

As for the Big-12's remaining members, they are stuck in the Big-12. No one is holding a door open for them and even if another conference wanted them, none of them have enough pennies in the bank to move as 80 million is a steep price tag and that figure may very well double. I have seen math projections all over the spectrum.

For the Big-12 there is actually a silver lining, just as Miami burned every chance at conference stabilization and expansion before their late night departure from the Big East to the ACC, Texas did the same thing in the Big-12. Now, Texas is not there to muck things up as neither Texas or Oklahoma have any say on anything in such matters even though they will still be playing members for another year.

This lets the Big-12 think about it's future. It is hard to offer membership to nearly any institution out there because of current contractual obligations to another conference. But, there is an exception - BYU.

BYU has a few warts but the Big-12 already deals with the issues of religious members with TCU and Baylor, BYU is not a huge stretch. In the modern format coming up with the CFP-12 or whatever evolves, BYU must be in a conference to participate. Notre Dame can manage it independent as the CFP-12 will keep a seat open for them, but they will not for BYU. BYU would go a long way to calming some nerves in the Big-12 and perhaps elsewhere that the world is not coming to an end in a nationwide game of musical chairs.

Then the Big-12 needs to contact the commissioner of the AAC and ask for permission to speak with Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis. Cincinnati has proven it can survive in the upper echelon of competition. Houston is one decent football coach from being there as well and Memphis has Fed-EX and all their pennies backing them as well as bringing the Liberty Bowl to the Big-12 if such is needed.

Then the Big-12 needs to format a new CCG for 2022 when these members join on the date Texas and Oklahoma leave. It is a given the media package with ESPN will be altered, the current package of teams even with the new four additions do not merit the existing pay out. It will likely fall to around 20 million, perhaps 15. One way to make that figure higher and get this to a reasonable point is how the Texas and Oklahoma buyout is handled. The Big-12 can stonewall their move and say pay in full or stay until July 1 2025. Texas and Oklahoma could go to court to challenge the GOR in that circumstance but no one wants that, especially other conferences with GOR's. If the Big-12 GOR is broken in court so too can all of those others and then there would never be another GOR and it would be pure chaos every year as members hopped around. Further, being in court means opening the financial records to prove damages and who said what to whom and when. Sticky stuff. Especially for ESPN who is up to their eyeballs in shady crap.

Assuming the Big-12 can navigate what I laid out, by the time 2022 rolls around there will be 12 teams, stability and a new media package that provides enough to make a living if not be rich. The CFP-12 is going to provide a seat for the Big-12 because they were already planning to do so for the AAC, which would be out of the picture if the Big-12 takes 4 of their teams. One seat is enough and who knows, maybe they get more than one in odd years. It will be enough.

Finally, if the Pac-12 and the Big Ten do reach some sort of arrangement, it is possible some of those members will not be happy with the set up and may seek a suddenly stable Big-12 as a new home now that the overbearing 800-lb gorilla has left the building. Colorado may return home and bring Utah with them, rumor says Arizona and Arizona St. might consider it too. But, the more practical bet is that none of that happens and instead the Big-12 looks elsewhere.

The future is obviously the 16-team super conference and the Big-12 is still 4 shy. The time to grow to 16 and change the name to the Big-16 is 2022 as the first four work their way in. The new Big-16 would need to reach out to SMU (another religious school), Boise State, UCF and USF. Hopefully the media, whatever it may be, has a modest escalator clause to cover these additions even if it is not equal to what the current members pull individually. This would not be about anything but the number 16 and the best 13 through 16 that can be offered. These final four would start play in 2023. Will it happen? NO clue, but it can and without a lot of real guess work. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

Texas performed poorly for ten years in the Big-12 and it will only get tougher in the SEC. Had Texas had the same track record as Oklahoma since 2012, it is likely we would not be talking about this stuff today. Oklahoma is going to lose a lot of last second games on debatable calls - welcome to the SEC. They will not finish higher than 3rd or 4th most years for a while.
 
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quinnjj

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As far as the Big-12 is concerned, it is all pretty easy to forecast on what is to come next.

The exit by Texas and Oklahoma is in the legal system now and not something the Big-12 can really effect outside of instructions. A pay out will be agreed to and both Texas and Oklahoma will only spend one more year in the Big-12, leaving on July 1 2022.

How that payout is determine and how it is paid is a big chore.

As for the Big-12's remaining members, they are stuck in the Big-12. No one is holding a door open for them and even if another conference wanted them, none of them have enough pennies in the bank to move as 80 million is a steep price tag and that figure may very well double. I have seen math projections all over the spectrum.

For the Big-12 there is actually a silver lining, just as Miami burned every chance at conference stabilization and expansion before their late night departure from the Big East to the ACC, Texas did the same thing in the Big-12. Now, Texas is not there to muck things up as neither Texas or Oklahoma have any say on anything in such matters even though they will still be playing members for another year.

This lets the Big-12 think about it's future. It is hard to offer membership to nearly any institution out there because of current contractual obligations to another conference. But, there is an exception - BYU.

BYU has a few warts but the Big-12 already deals with the issues of religious members with TCU and Baylor, BYU is not a huge stretch. In the modern format coming up with the CFP-12 or whatever evolves, BYU must be in a conference to participate. Notre Dame can manage it independent as the CFP-12 will keep a seat open for them, but they will not for BYU. BYU would go a long way to calming some nerves in the Big-12 and perhaps elsewhere that the world is not coming to an end in a nationwide game of musical chairs.

Then the Big-12 needs to contact the commissioner of the AAC and ask for permission to speak with Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis. Cincinnati has proven it can survive in the upper echelon of competition. Houston is one decent football coach from being there as well and Memphis has Fed-EX and all their pennies backing them as well as bringing the Liberty Bowl to the Big-12 if such is needed.

Then the Big-12 needs to format a new CCG for 2022 when these members join on the date Texas and Oklahoma leave. It is a given the media package with ESPN will be altered, the current package of teams even with the new four additions do not merit the existing pay out. It will likely fall to around 20 million, perhaps 15. One way to make that figure higher and get this to a reasonable point is how the Texas and Oklahoma buyout is handled. The Big-12 can stonewall their move and say pay in full or stay until July 1 2025. Texas and Oklahoma could go to court to challenge the GOR in that circumstance but no one wants that, especially other conferences with GOR's. If the Big-12 GOR is broken in court so too can all of those others and then there would never be another GOR and it would be pure chaos every year as members hopped around. Further, being in court means opening the financial records to prove damages and who said what to whom and when. Sticky stuff. Especially for ESPN who is up to their eyeballs in shady crap.

Assuming the Big-12 can navigate what I laid out, by the time 2022 rolls around there will be 12 teams, stability and a new media package that provides enough to make a living if not be rich. The CFP-12 is going to provide a seat for the Big-12 because they were already planning to do so for the AAC, which would be out of the picture if the Big-12 takes 4 of their teams. One seat is enough and who knows, maybe they get more than one in odd years. It will be enough.

Finally, if the Pac-12 and the Big Ten do reach some sort of arrangement, it is possible some of those members will not be happy with the set up and may seek a suddenly stable Big-12 as a new home now that the overbearing 800-lb gorilla has left the building. Colorado may return home and bring Utah with them, rumor says Arizona and Arizona St. might consider it too. But, the more practical bet is that none of that happens and instead the Big-12 looks elsewhere.

The future is obviously the 16-team super conference and the Big-12 is still 4 shy. The time to grow to 16 and change the name to the Big-16 is 2022 as the first four work their way in. The new Big-16 would need to reach out to SMU (another religious school), Boise State, UCF and USF. Hopefully the media, whatever it may be, has a modest escalator clause to cover these additions even if it is not equal to what the current members pull individually. This would not be about anything but the number 16 and the best 13 through 16 that can be offered. These final four would start play in 2023. Will it happen? NO clue, but it can and without a lot of real guess work. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

Texas performed poorly for ten years in the Big-12 and it will only get tougher in the SEC. Had Texas had the same track record as Oklahoma since 2012, it is likely we would not be talking about this stuff today. Oklahoma is going to lose a lot of last second games on debatable calls - welcome to the SEC. They will not finish higher than 3rd or 4th most years for a while.
The Liberty is a **** hole. Very antiquated. If they build a new stadium then they’re in. Also, not sure the current 3 Texas schools want Houston included; I know I wouldn’t if I was them.
 

Tylerite

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A big no to byu, they're nothing but a drain on a conference, also a big no to boise too.
If we are staying in the Big12 then the conference needs to come east not west.
Top 2 - Cincinnati, Memphis
Top 4 - Houston, Southern Methodist
Top 6 - Central Florida, South Florida
Top 8 - Temple, Tulane
 

OlegeezEER

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As far as the Big-12 is concerned, it is all pretty easy to forecast on what is to come next.

The exit by Texas and Oklahoma is in the legal system now and not something the Big-12 can really effect outside of instructions. A pay out will be agreed to and both Texas and Oklahoma will only spend one more year in the Big-12, leaving on July 1 2022.

How that payout is determine and how it is paid is a big chore.

As for the Big-12's remaining members, they are stuck in the Big-12. No one is holding a door open for them and even if another conference wanted them, none of them have enough pennies in the bank to move as 80 million is a steep price tag and that figure may very well double. I have seen math projections all over the spectrum.

For the Big-12 there is actually a silver lining, just as Miami burned every chance at conference stabilization and expansion before their late night departure from the Big East to the ACC, Texas did the same thing in the Big-12. Now, Texas is not there to muck things up as neither Texas or Oklahoma have any say on anything in such matters even though they will still be playing members for another year.

This lets the Big-12 think about it's future. It is hard to offer membership to nearly any institution out there because of current contractual obligations to another conference. But, there is an exception - BYU.

BYU has a few warts but the Big-12 already deals with the issues of religious members with TCU and Baylor, BYU is not a huge stretch. In the modern format coming up with the CFP-12 or whatever evolves, BYU must be in a conference to participate. Notre Dame can manage it independent as the CFP-12 will keep a seat open for them, but they will not for BYU. BYU would go a long way to calming some nerves in the Big-12 and perhaps elsewhere that the world is not coming to an end in a nationwide game of musical chairs.

Then the Big-12 needs to contact the commissioner of the AAC and ask for permission to speak with Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis. Cincinnati has proven it can survive in the upper echelon of competition. Houston is one decent football coach from being there as well and Memphis has Fed-EX and all their pennies backing them as well as bringing the Liberty Bowl to the Big-12 if such is needed.

Then the Big-12 needs to format a new CCG for 2022 when these members join on the date Texas and Oklahoma leave. It is a given the media package with ESPN will be altered, the current package of teams even with the new four additions do not merit the existing pay out. It will likely fall to around 20 million, perhaps 15. One way to make that figure higher and get this to a reasonable point is how the Texas and Oklahoma buyout is handled. The Big-12 can stonewall their move and say pay in full or stay until July 1 2025. Texas and Oklahoma could go to court to challenge the GOR in that circumstance but no one wants that, especially other conferences with GOR's. If the Big-12 GOR is broken in court so too can all of those others and then there would never be another GOR and it would be pure chaos every year as members hopped around. Further, being in court means opening the financial records to prove damages and who said what to whom and when. Sticky stuff. Especially for ESPN who is up to their eyeballs in shady crap.

Assuming the Big-12 can navigate what I laid out, by the time 2022 rolls around there will be 12 teams, stability and a new media package that provides enough to make a living if not be rich. The CFP-12 is going to provide a seat for the Big-12 because they were already planning to do so for the AAC, which would be out of the picture if the Big-12 takes 4 of their teams. One seat is enough and who knows, maybe they get more than one in odd years. It will be enough.

Finally, if the Pac-12 and the Big Ten do reach some sort of arrangement, it is possible some of those members will not be happy with the set up and may seek a suddenly stable Big-12 as a new home now that the overbearing 800-lb gorilla has left the building. Colorado may return home and bring Utah with them, rumor says Arizona and Arizona St. might consider it too. But, the more practical bet is that none of that happens and instead the Big-12 looks elsewhere.

The future is obviously the 16-team super conference and the Big-12 is still 4 shy. The time to grow to 16 and change the name to the Big-16 is 2022 as the first four work their way in. The new Big-16 would need to reach out to SMU (another religious school), Boise State, UCF and USF. Hopefully the media, whatever it may be, has a modest escalator clause to cover these additions even if it is not equal to what the current members pull individually. This would not be about anything but the number 16 and the best 13 through 16 that can be offered. These final four would start play in 2023. Will it happen? NO clue, but it can and without a lot of real guess work. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

Texas performed poorly for ten years in the Big-12 and it will only get tougher in the SEC. Had Texas had the same track record as Oklahoma since 2012, it is likely we would not be talking about this stuff today. Oklahoma is going to lose a lot of last second games on debatable calls - welcome to the SEC. They will not finish higher than 3rd or 4th most years for a while.
A newly constructed big 12 really needs to come east where there are more tv sets. Cincy and UCF should be 1st. They are probably the best G5 programs in the east. The big 12 has struggled historically because they have failed to expand their demographic outreach. We don't need anymore teams from Texas. Three are enough.
 

Rootmaster

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A big no to byu, they're nothing but a drain on a conference, also a big no to boise too.
If we are staying in the Big12 then the conference needs to come east not west.
Top 2 - Cincinnati, Memphis
Top 4 - Houston, Southern Methodist
Top 6 - Central Florida, South Florida
Top 8 - Temple, Tulane
Say clueless. Repeat fifty times. Then say your name.
 

OlegeezEER

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Is there any scenario where the BIG12 survives, and under this optimal hypothetical would WVU choose to remain in it?
Big 12 will probably survive short term. I doubt it survives long term. When it comes to wvu and the others I doubt anyone really wants to be in it. Its just until a better option presents itself were kind of stuck in it. At the moment it doesn't appear that any of the remaining schools have a viable option that is available.
 
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Tylerite

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Lol. Your understanding of the real world is pretty much juvenile fantasy we see.
You have no understanding or knowledge for that matter. All your posts proves that.

But it’s funny you say that but knew exactly what I was referring to. LOL

You and your ilk have drove a bunch of posters away.
 

Pitt4Life34

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OU was winning and making playoffs with only 4 spots available. Increase to 12 spots. SEC says come make 20 million more and we'll get 6 teams in. They may play a tougher SEC schedule but if they win 9 they could get in anyway. Texas is not wining anything in the past dozen years so it was an easy decision for them. We're losing in Big 12 might as well lose and in SEC make more money.

Couldn’t agree more Allen. Good post! College football is on the path to 32-to- 48 programs. Probably an upper D1 and a lower D1. This power struggle is going to blowup in their face IMO. It’s gonna end up like Hockey. Rabid fans in some areas and no one gives a **** in others. Things got quiet on my end. I posted early about expanding, partnerships and mergers before anything was reported. WVU talk was positive. But man there’s been nothing for over a week. My guy in NYC knows everything and even he said nothing coming out. So either the pause is on or something big coming over the next year.

@TownesVanZandt quit connecting weirdo irrelevant dots and posting goofball college dropout talkin head links and read Allen’s OP five times. This truth will set you free you raging meandering lunatic. And @WVUFanForever this is what a legit thread with excellent content potential looks like.
 

Pitt4Life34

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Is there any scenario where the BIG12 survives, and under this optimal hypothetical would WVU choose to remain in it?

I think Big12 can survive if they only lose one more Program. That school has to be WVU, Kansas or Iowa St. If WVU goes to ACC Big12 can survive if their Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma regional core stays. If WVU stays and Iowa St goes BigTen Big12 expands and can survives. Obviously if Big12 loses multiple programs put a tag on their toe and call in the county coroner.
 
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Pitt4Life34

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As far as the Big-12 is concerned, it is all pretty easy to forecast on what is to come next.

The exit by Texas and Oklahoma is in the legal system now and not something the Big-12 can really effect outside of instructions. A pay out will be agreed to and both Texas and Oklahoma will only spend one more year in the Big-12, leaving on July 1 2022.

How that payout is determine and how it is paid is a big chore.

As for the Big-12's remaining members, they are stuck in the Big-12. No one is holding a door open for them and even if another conference wanted them, none of them have enough pennies in the bank to move as 80 million is a steep price tag and that figure may very well double. I have seen math projections all over the spectrum.

For the Big-12 there is actually a silver lining, just as Miami burned every chance at conference stabilization and expansion before their late night departure from the Big East to the ACC, Texas did the same thing in the Big-12. Now, Texas is not there to muck things up as neither Texas or Oklahoma have any say on anything in such matters even though they will still be playing members for another year.

This lets the Big-12 think about it's future. It is hard to offer membership to nearly any institution out there because of current contractual obligations to another conference. But, there is an exception - BYU.

BYU has a few warts but the Big-12 already deals with the issues of religious members with TCU and Baylor, BYU is not a huge stretch. In the modern format coming up with the CFP-12 or whatever evolves, BYU must be in a conference to participate. Notre Dame can manage it independent as the CFP-12 will keep a seat open for them, but they will not for BYU. BYU would go a long way to calming some nerves in the Big-12 and perhaps elsewhere that the world is not coming to an end in a nationwide game of musical chairs.

Then the Big-12 needs to contact the commissioner of the AAC and ask for permission to speak with Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis. Cincinnati has proven it can survive in the upper echelon of competition. Houston is one decent football coach from being there as well and Memphis has Fed-EX and all their pennies backing them as well as bringing the Liberty Bowl to the Big-12 if such is needed.

Then the Big-12 needs to format a new CCG for 2022 when these members join on the date Texas and Oklahoma leave. It is a given the media package with ESPN will be altered, the current package of teams even with the new four additions do not merit the existing pay out. It will likely fall to around 20 million, perhaps 15. One way to make that figure higher and get this to a reasonable point is how the Texas and Oklahoma buyout is handled. The Big-12 can stonewall their move and say pay in full or stay until July 1 2025. Texas and Oklahoma could go to court to challenge the GOR in that circumstance but no one wants that, especially other conferences with GOR's. If the Big-12 GOR is broken in court so too can all of those others and then there would never be another GOR and it would be pure chaos every year as members hopped around. Further, being in court means opening the financial records to prove damages and who said what to whom and when. Sticky stuff. Especially for ESPN who is up to their eyeballs in shady crap.

Assuming the Big-12 can navigate what I laid out, by the time 2022 rolls around there will be 12 teams, stability and a new media package that provides enough to make a living if not be rich. The CFP-12 is going to provide a seat for the Big-12 because they were already planning to do so for the AAC, which would be out of the picture if the Big-12 takes 4 of their teams. One seat is enough and who knows, maybe they get more than one in odd years. It will be enough.

Finally, if the Pac-12 and the Big Ten do reach some sort of arrangement, it is possible some of those members will not be happy with the set up and may seek a suddenly stable Big-12 as a new home now that the overbearing 800-lb gorilla has left the building. Colorado may return home and bring Utah with them, rumor says Arizona and Arizona St. might consider it too. But, the more practical bet is that none of that happens and instead the Big-12 looks elsewhere.

The future is obviously the 16-team super conference and the Big-12 is still 4 shy. The time to grow to 16 and change the name to the Big-16 is 2022 as the first four work their way in. The new Big-16 would need to reach out to SMU (another religious school), Boise State, UCF and USF. Hopefully the media, whatever it may be, has a modest escalator clause to cover these additions even if it is not equal to what the current members pull individually. This would not be about anything but the number 16 and the best 13 through 16 that can be offered. These final four would start play in 2023. Will it happen? NO clue, but it can and without a lot of real guess work. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

Texas performed poorly for ten years in the Big-12 and it will only get tougher in the SEC. Had Texas had the same track record as Oklahoma since 2012, it is likely we would not be talking about this stuff today. Oklahoma is going to lose a lot of last second games on debatable calls - welcome to the SEC. They will not finish higher than 3rd or 4th most years for a while.

I usually don’t read longer posts because they are generally a bunch of homer crap and all over the place. However, your post got my attention early and I’m glad I read it. One of the best posts I’ve read regarding this situation on this or Pitt’s site. Thanks.
 

Pitt4Life34

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A big no to byu, they're nothing but a drain on a conference, also a big no to boise too.
If we are staying in the Big12 then the conference needs to come east not west.
Top 2 - Cincinnati, Memphis
Top 4 - Houston, Southern Methodist
Top 6 - Central Florida, South Florida
Top 8 - Temple, Tulane


I know you‘re working with one hand tied behind your back brainstorming but I just don’t see those teams moving any needle. Thinking out loud I’d network with FOX/ESPN to see if possibly the Big12 could merge with the PAC12 in a 18-20 team Super Conference.
 

Tylerite

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I know you‘re working with one hand tied behind your back brainstorming but I just don’t see those teams moving any needle. Thinking out loud I’d network with FOX/ESPN to see if possibly the Big12 could merge with the PAC12 in a 18-20 team Super Conference.
If you would follow the thread instead of picking out a single post to just give a smartazz reply, then maybe you would understand that my post was in reply to wvu having to stay in the Big12, and what would be probable additions.

Just as I told your partner, this board has lost a lot of posters because of this childish crap.
 

Pitt4Life34

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If you would follow the thread instead of picking out a single post to just give a smartazz reply, then maybe you would understand that my post was in reply to wvu having to stay in the Big12, and what would be probable additions.

Just as I told your partner, this board has lost a lot of posters because of this childish crap.

Misfire dude. I wasn’t hacking on you. You’re so fvckin insecure you can’t even converse.
 

topdecktiger

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OU was winning and making playoffs with only 4 spots available. Increase to 12 spots. SEC says come make 20 million more and we'll get 6 teams in. They may play a tougher SEC schedule but if they win 9 they could get in anyway. Texas is not wining anything in the past dozen years so it was an easy decision for them. We're losing in Big 12 might as well lose and in SEC make more money.
I wouldn't be too sure about playing a tougher schedule. With more schools to spread out the schedule, I expect a steady diet of Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, etc. for the blue bloods.
 

WVUALLEN

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I wouldn't be too sure about playing a tougher schedule. With more schools to spread out the schedule, I expect a steady diet of Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, etc. for the blue bloods.
Haven't you heard. SEC never has tough schedules according to non fans of the conference.

Won't be a heavy diet of anything like that. Division teams play each other one time. They play a crossover vs 1 team of opposite division alternating through the years. Just wonder who gets put in the east division jow.
 

topdecktiger

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Haven't you heard. SEC never has tough schedules according to non fans of the conference.

Won't be a heavy diet of anything like that. Division teams play each other one time. They play a crossover vs 1 team of opposite division alternating through the years. Just wonder who gets put in the east division jow.
I suspect they will not have static divisions. I also feel quite certain they will arrange the grouping so the top teams get plenty of lower end schools.
 

steeleer

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A big no to byu, they're nothing but a drain on a conference, also a big no to boise too.
If we are staying in the Big12 then the conference needs to come east not west.
Top 2 - Cincinnati, Memphis
Top 4 - Houston, Southern Methodist
Top 6 - Central Florida, South Florida
Top 8 - Temple, Tulane

Flip SMU and UCF and you got it. Florida would get a new state and a big market. We already have Texas with Baylor, TT and TCU but Houston would be a good #4 team to acquire.
 

Pitt4Life34

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Flip SMU and UCF and you got it. Florida would get a new state and a big market. We already have Texas with Baylor, TT and TCU but Houston would be a good #4 team to acquire.

Big12 couldn’t move the needle with Texas and Oklahoma. What makes you think ESPN or FOX would put an legit investment and/or commitment into to this lineup of no interest programs?
 

WVUALLEN

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Big12 couldn’t move the needle with Texas and Oklahoma. What makes you think ESPN or FOX would put an legit investment and/or commitment into to this lineup of no interest programs?
If Texas was actually being competitive in the conference or out of conference then Big 12 probably survives.