Kids Covid Vaccine

[gracetoyou]

…….

You know vaccinations have been required by school systems for decades.

It's NOT THE SAME!! And you can get excemptions for any vaccine. I'm not an anti-Vaccination person but we really need to pause & know what this vaccine is for.

1. Does the vaccine prevent everyone from getting & transmitting COVID? No!

2. Will it eliminate COVID if everyone gets it? No!

3. Do unvaccinated people pose a risk to vaccinated? No!

4. So is this vaccine worthless? NOOO!!! It drastically prevents those who get it from serious illness if they get COVID.


**No reason to mandate...especially in children.

 

[MegaBlue05]

…….

You know vaccinations have been required by school systems for decades.

Of course. OP is our resident Fayette County school board hall monitor.

 

[cricket3]

Ah. That's on me.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

HPV vaccine? That's the only one I can think of. Google found a retracted study linking it to increased cervical cancer.

Gardasil. Study suddenly got retracted once all the class action lawsuits came out against the company from young people who had adverse reactions. They’re still reviewing data even today to look at the safety of it.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Good post. The vaccines are safe, but it's a personal decision. IMO not getting vaxxed is a poor decision, but to each his own. Nobody should be forced to take it if they don't want it.

That said, my hope is that people make this decision based on the sound medical advice of their trusted family doctor or pediatrician and not based on their own research or social media.

It's about weighing the risks/benefits.
-Get the vaccine and you are quite safe from known Covid effects (cardiac inflammation, permanent heart damage, permanent neurological damage, possible permanent joint damage, permanent lung damage, death, etc) , but risk some potential unknown effects (??)
-Refuse the vaccine and you open yourself for the known risks of Covid, but avoid potential unknown effects to the vaccine.


For me it breaks down like this
-Elderly - If you are elderly this should be a no brainer......get the vaccine. Unless you have a religious or medical reason not to, you really should get it. If you are black or latino........or have other co-morbidities then this should be all the more reason to get it. The effects of Covid vs the possible effects of vaccine is too great in this group.

-Middle-aged - If you are in good shape......are not black, latino.....lack co-morbities.....and aren't around people much.....then it's a toss up decision.....just take precautions. Most people in this segment would likely need to get it. Covid still weighs heavier here.

-Young adult - (say 20-35 yrs old) - This is similar to the middle aged group, but with a lesser percentage of people needing vaccine. Much more balanced weight here. With many, the vaccine weighs heavier than Covid

-Youth - Just about anyone under 18 yrs old. Unless you have significant issues that would warrant a vaccination almost nobody should get the vaccine here. The balance just isn't there for most people......especially when their bodies are still developing.






Now, this being said, nobody should be forced to do anything. An individual has the right to engage in risky behaviors like free climbing without ropes. An individual who has cancer has the right to refuse medical care. So, an individual should have the right to choose a vaccine or not.

 

[Dore95]

It's about weighing the risks/benefits.
-Get the vaccine and you are quite safe from known Covid effects (cardiac inflammation, permanent heart damage, permanent neurological damage, possible permanent joint damage, permanent lung damage, death, etc) , but risk some potential unknown effects (??)
-Refuse the vaccine and you open yourself for the known risks of Covid, but avoid potential unknown effects to the vaccine.


For me it breaks down like this
-Elderly - If you are elderly this should be a no brainer......get the vaccine. Unless you have a religious or medical reason not to, you really should get it. If you are black or latino........or have other co-morbidities then this should be all the more reason to get it. The effects of Covid vs the possible effects of vaccine is too great in this group.

-Middle-aged - If you are in good shape......are not black, latino.....lack co-morbities.....and aren't around people much.....then it's a toss up decision.....just take precautions. Most people in this segment would likely need to get it. Covid still weighs heavier here.

-Young adult - (say 20-35 yrs old) - This is similar to the middle aged group, but with a lesser percentage of people needing vaccine. Much more balanced weight here. With many, the vaccine weighs heavier than Covid

-Youth - Just about anyone under 18 yrs old. Unless you have significant issues that would warrant a vaccination almost nobody should get the vaccine here. The balance just isn't there for most people......especially when their bodies are still developing.






Now, this being said, nobody should be forced to do anything. An individual has the right to engage in risky behaviors like free climbing without ropes. An individual who has cancer has the right to refuse medical care. So, an individual should have the right to choose a vaccine or not.

Your entire post presumes that the "potential unknown effects" of the vaccine are worth taking into consideration. There is no evidence this is the case. Yet many (millions of) people are skeptical like you. It speaks to a total distrust of medicine, science, the government, etc. To the point where otherwise intelligent (at least not moronic) people believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

This didn't happen in the days of the polio vaccine. What has changed?

I also see mainstream protestants (Southern Baptists, for example) behaving as if they are Christian Scientists - skeptical of doctors, drugs, etc.

I'm just shaking my head here. And, to answer the question that is the subject of this thread, my 12 year old daughter was vaccinated. And we are looking forward to when our 10 year old son can get the vaccine too.

 

[SDC8888]

It's not possible to determine the potential long term effects of the vaccine until the vaccine has been around for a long term.

 

[gracetoyou]

Your entire post presumes that the "potential unknown effects" of the vaccine are worth taking into consideration. There is no evidence this is the case. Yet many (millions of) people are skeptical like you. It speaks to a total distrust of medicine, science, the government, etc. To the point where otherwise intelligent (at least not moronic) people believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

This didn't happen in the days of the polio vaccine. What has changed?

I also see mainstream protestants (Southern Baptists, for example) behaving as if they are Christian Scientists - skeptical of doctors, drugs, etc.

I'm just shaking my head here. And, to answer the question that is the subject of this thread, my 12 year old daughter was vaccinated. And we are looking forward to when our 10 year old son can get the vaccine too.

I think you're nuts. Literally no reason to do that. You're not "saving" anyone by getting them to take COVID vaccine. And it's a personal benefit they're not going to need.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Your entire post presumes that the "potential unknown effects" of the vaccine are worth taking into consideration. There is no evidence this is the case. Yet many (millions of) people are skeptical like you. It speaks to a total distrust of medicine, science, the government, etc. To the point where otherwise intelligent (at least not moronic) people believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

This didn't happen in the days of the polio vaccine. What has changed?

I also see mainstream protestants (Southern Baptists, for example) behaving as if they are Christian Scientists - skeptical of doctors, drugs, etc.

I'm just shaking my head here. And, to answer the question that is the subject of this thread, my 12 year old daughter was vaccinated. And we are looking forward to when our 10 year old son can get the vaccine too.

Yes. You must be open to the concept that there might be effects from the vaccines that are unknown at this point. There have been a ton of medications/treatments over the thousands of years of medical history that have created unwanted side effects. Just because something is new and modern.....and that these consequences are lessening due to advancements in knowledge and technology......does not mean that it is immune to the possibility. So, yes, there are "potential unknown effects". And, yes, an individual should consider it.


I am a medical professional. I absolutely trust science. But one thing that science tries to teach you is to look objectively at a subject. It's difficult to so sometimes.

....You have to understand that as biased as claim that some are against the vaccine, you are coming across as very much the same extremist. You're just at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Dore95]

Sad to see that we are at a point where trusting medicine, science, and the government (all of whom say the vaccine is safe and beneficial for everyone age 12 and older) makes someone an "extremist".

 

[gracetoyou]

Your entire post presumes that the "potential unknown effects" of the vaccine are worth taking into consideration. There is no evidence this is the case. Yet many (millions of) people are skeptical like you. It speaks to a total distrust of medicine, science, the government, etc. To the point where otherwise intelligent (at least not moronic) people believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

This didn't happen in the days of the polio vaccine. What has changed?

I also see mainstream protestants (Southern Baptists, for example) behaving as if they are Christian Scientists - skeptical of doctors, drugs, etc.

I'm just shaking my head here. And, to answer the question that is the subject of this thread, my 12 year old daughter was vaccinated. And we are looking forward to when our 10 year old son can get the vaccine too.

Ok. That's just weird. Who is more mon-intellectual? The one who just trusyingly gets in line with no questions asked or the ones who are not ANTI but use wisdom to question, observe, & make thoughtful decisions?

A medical doctor friend says he is puzzled by the pushiness of the last year by some medical professionals & said he is not alone in the medical world. I guess he is a Trump-loving, anti-intellectual, god-worshipping rebel as well. ?????? Just a really dumb stereotype to use.

 

[Dore95]

You're always going to be able to find someone (be it a doctor or some other "healthcare professional") who anecdotally feels otherwise, but literally the vast majority of doctors and other people who understand the science of these vaccines have said they're safe. If "potential unknown effects" of any drug are going to stop you from taking it, you will not be taking any drugs.

 

[gracetoyou]

Sad to see that we are at a point where trusting medicine, science, and the government (all of whom say the vaccine is safe and beneficial for everyone age 12 and older) makes someone an "extremist".

Science evolves. New information & discoveries often cancel out previously stated & accepted facts. Look no further than masks. In the beginning Dr. Fauci said masks where not thought to be helpful; however, as they learned more about the virus they learned that masks can indeed be helpful. That's how science progresses.

Science does not progress by mindless acceptance of every hypothesis but by ongoing observation, study...etc. Healthy skepticism is a must for science to progress. You don't close the book...you keep it open.

 

[BlueRaider22]

If "potential unknown effects" of any drug are going to stop you from taking it, you will not be taking any drugs.

No. It means that you factor that in and decide if it's worth it.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Sad to see that we are at a point where trusting medicine, science, and the government (all of whom say the vaccine is safe and beneficial for everyone age 12 and older) makes someone an "extremist".

Once again. It's trusting them to the point where you're blind. That's what you're accusing the other extreme of doing.....and that's what you're doing on your end. Factoring in potential unknowns does NOT mean that it's not worth the risk......hence what I said all along.

 

[FUMods]

A large number of non vaxxers have the anti-bodies... and we're the ones not "trusting the science"?

Lol...

 

[BlueRaider22]

but literally the vast majority of doctors and other people who understand the science of these vaccines have said they're safe.

Ummmm, no. The majority have said that vaccines are safe for adults.....under certain conditions. There is a very large debate among whether or not vaccines should be given to kids under 18........and especially >12-14.

 

[UKGrad93]

Gardasil. Study suddenly got retracted once all the class action lawsuits came out against the company from young people who had adverse reactions. They’re still reviewing data even today to look at the safety of it.

You might want to let the American Cancer Society know about this. Their website says it is safe.

 

[JumperJack]

Well there you have it. This is the kind of rock solid irrefutable evidence we need to combat the peer reviewed scientific studies that overwhelmingly tell us vaccines are nothing short of a miracle in human health and medical advancement.

You have all these fancy institutions and their scientists spending billions around the world in every advanced medical research facility on earth desperately trying to save us from a pandemic but thankfully Creed's wife can step forward to save us all from their trickery.

It's hard hitting information like this that helps us all sleep a little better at night. To know that anytime "science" tries to pull a fast one on us ol' Creed and his wife are looking out for us.

There we have it. SCIENCE has never failed. Except that time it created and released COVID-19.

 

[pitinoshairplugs]

The questions are simple...

are the potential side effects and risks associated with getting the actual virus worse than the potential risk or side effects from the vaccine.

For people over 18 it's clear. All of the negative side effects from the virus are far worse than the potential side effects from the vaccine. Every major side effect from the vaccine is more likely to happen from the actual virus. heart issues, GBS, etc... All more common in those who get the virus than those who get the vaccine...

For kids, I don't know what the data says because my kids aren't old enough to get it. But when they are, we will have enough data to make an informed decision. I'll make the same kind of a decision. Is my kid more likely to be harmed by the vaccine or the virus...

Full disclosure, one of my kids got covid last year, didn't spread it to any of us and never showed a symptom. But I also believe in vaccines and I hated sitting at home for two weeks. So if the vaccine is safe based on my common sense analysis, I'll have them get the vaccines when they are old enough.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

You might want to let the American Cancer Society know about this. Their website says it is safe.

Like I said the study that linked it was pulled around the time lawsuits started showing up. It’s still deemed safe. Only very small groups had major reactions which happens with a lot of vaccines. They are actually still doing long term studies about how well it prevents cancer. I was just referring to the vaccine he was talking about because the scare came after a tiny percent developed issues like Guillain Barr and other nerve disorders. The hesitancy came from the Swine Flu Vaccine disaster in the late 70s. Not to mention Bayer knowingly selling blood products in the 90s that actually contained and gave people HIV.

 

[JumperJack]

are the potential side effects and risks associated with getting the actual virus worse than the potential risk or side effects from the vaccine.

For people over 18 it's clear. All of the negative side effects from the virus are far worse than the potential side effects from the vaccine. Every major side effect from the vaccine is more likely to happen from the actual virus. heart issues, GBS, etc... All more common in those who get the virus than those who get the vaccine...

For kids, I don't know what the data says because my kids aren't old enough to get it. But when they are, we will have enough data to make an informed decision. I'll make the same kind of a decision. Is my kid more likely to be harmed by the vaccine or the virus...

Full disclosure, one of my kids got covid last year, didn't spread it to any of us and never showed a symptom. But I also believe in vaccines and I hated sitting at home for two weeks. So if the vaccine is safe based on my common sense analysis, I'll have them get the vaccines when they are old enough.

Who exactly are you getting data from that you can trust?

How you can be clear on anything with less than a year’s worth of data?

How can you put something in your body with no hope of compensation if it harms you?


Just curious how you reconcile these things.

 

[gracetoyou]

BTW, vaccine really reduces the threat of serious illness and grateful for it but with that said:

-5,189 fully vaccinated people have been hospitalized in U.S. with COVID

-1,063 fully vaccinated people have died with COVID in the U.S.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Who exactly are you getting data from that you can trust? I'm a medical professional, so I can read and have access to JAMA articles, etc. You can also trust most things that come out of the CDC, WHO, etc. Sure, you have to examine what guys like Fauci say in front of a microphone but the organization itself has been fairly trustworthy over the many years. It's also worth noting that if a large collection of the World's health entities are relaying the same information, then it's probably good information to use at that time/moment. But like Grace said above, science does change often.

How you can be clear on anything with less than a year’s worth of data? Well, it's been a year of vaccines. It's pretty darn clear what little side effects the vaccines have yielded over this past yr. What isn't known are if there are effects going forward. Remember that in the 1950's a new drug came out and was given to pregnant women for nausea, etc. It worked very well and had very little short term side effects........Thalidomide. Now I certainly don't feel that we'll see something from this vaccine, but from a logic and science perspective you'd better be open to the possibility. When I hop in my car, I don't expect to get in a wreck......and history has shown that I don't get in wrecks......but I'm not naive to think that it can't happen.

How can you put something in your body with no hope of compensation if it harms you? You mean like Covid? Covid can harm you. It can permanently damage you.......and I'm not talking death. It's got known nasty side effects. And you won't get compensation from it either. That's why each individual must weigh their own scale.


Just curious how you reconcile these things.

 

[Lord Z]

Once again. It's trusting them to the point where you're blind. That's what you're accusing the other extreme of doing.....and that's what you're doing on your end. Factoring in potential unknowns does NOT mean that it's not worth the risk......hence what I said all along.

Jade Helm! Antifa in disguise! Wind turbines cause cancer! Seth Rich! Deep State! Clintons are murdering people! Joe Scarborough killed his girlfriend! Vince Foster! Stop the Steal! Climate Change! Chemtrails! Vaccines cause Autism!

 

[BigBlueDave_rivals76951]

Jade Helm! Antifa in disguise! Wind turbines cause cancer! Seth Rich! Deep State! Clintons are murdering people! Joe Scarborough killed his girlfriend! Vince Foster! Stop the Steal! Climate Change! Chemtrails! Vaccines cause Autism!

Russia stole the election from Hillary while orange man while he sat in hooker urine.

Impeach!!!

Resist!!!!


Maybe you should go back to posting about the Nigerian department of national sanitation siding with climate change consensus.

 

[thabigbluenation]

Do you know anyone in the medical or scientific community? Most of them literally dedicate their lives to saving people.

On one hand you have a global consortium of scientists and doctors. On the other hand you have Alex Jones, Facebook, and YouTube. You'll excuse me if I take the advice of the former.

spare me this ********. I wasn't talking about nurses and pediatricians. I was referring to the highest levels of medical institutions he was referring to that love nothing more than to conduct real world research on us.

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

-1,063 fully vaccinated people have died with COVID in the U.S.

So like 609,000 less than the amount of people who have died with COVID who haven't had the vaccine?

I am further to the right than Rush Limbaugh. But you - yes you - are a f***ing moron if you don't get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine. Don't let your pride get in the way of good health. This China Virus was made in a lab, but it's a virus that was easy to vaccinate against. So go get the damn vaccine and stay alive so we can vote the current band of commie cocksuckers out of office.

 

[gracetoyou]

Jade Helm! Antifa in disguise! Wind turbines cause cancer! Seth Rich! Deep State! Clintons are murdering people! Joe Scarborough killed his girlfriend! Vince Foster! Stop the Steal! Climate Change! Chemtrails! Vaccines cause Autism!

Good grief!! That's not what this is about. You do realize this is not a freaking Republican or Denocrat thing? It's about having a brain & making decisions based on ALL THE FACTS.

Facts are vaccine does not eliminate COVID. You can be vaccinated & get COVID & transmit it. The vaccine is a personal benefit that makes severe illness if infected with COVID very unlikely. Unvaccinated people are NOT a risk to anyone but themselves. So exactly what is the logic in mandating the COVID vaccine especially young people?

 

[gracetoyou]

So like 609,000 less than the amount of people who have died with COVID who haven't had the vaccine?

I am further to the right than Rush Limbaugh. But you - yes you - are a f***ing moron if you don't get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine. Don't let your pride get in the way of good health. This China Virus was made in a lab, but it's a virus that was easy to vaccinate against. So go get the damn vaccine and stay alive so we can vote the current band of commie cocksuckers out of office.

I was not slamming the vaccine. If you've read all my post on the last 2 pages you would know I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm anti-mandate for anyone especially children.

My point has been all along that if the vaccine does not eliminate COVID & the unvaccinated are a risk only to themselves then the mandate talk has ZERO LOGIC!

 

[LowerLevelSeatA]

I was not slamming the vaccine. If you've read all my post on the last 2 pages you would know I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm anti-mandate for anyone especially children.

My point has been all along that if the vaccine does not eliminate COVID & the unvaccinated are a risk only to themselves then the mandate talk has ZERO LOGIC!

Bingo!

 

[pitinoshairplugs]

Who exactly are you getting data from that you can trust?

How you can be clear on anything with less than a year’s worth of data?

How can you put something in your body with no hope of compensation if it harms you?


Just curious how you reconcile these things.

Data is easy to find.

common sense, critical thinking and history.

4,000,000,000,000 have been vaccinated so far. It’s safe.

 

[Ron Mehico]

You guys that say unknown side effects of the vaccine, how long are you waiting? What is the cut-off time you give it, and what science is that time frame based on? And I’m serious in my question, and I really think you should have an answer. And if you don’t have an answer, you should self reflect and realize why you don’t.

 

[HagginHall1999]

You guys that say unknown side effects of the vaccine, how long are you waiting? What is the cut-off time you give it, and what science is that time frame based on? And I’m serious in my question, and I really think you should have an answer. And if you don’t have an answer, you should self reflect and realize why you don’t.

It seems to be politically driven in some instances which is funny to me.

Trump was behind the vaccine from its infancy. Harris and others said they didn't trust it.

So if your a Republican, don't you trust Trump?

If your a Dem, your peeps are begging for you to take it now. Are you concerned because they backpeddled?

Besides the above, I think there are religious considerations...at least I personally know some people who won't take it for that reason.

It boils down to lack of trust. I understand that, but selfishly I don't want the country to shut down again.

I won't give it to my kids until it is FDA approved for under 12. There just is no evidence supporting its need IMO.

For me taking it was a no brainer.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I was not slamming the vaccine. If you've read all my post on the last 2 pages you would know I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm anti-mandate for anyone especially children.

My point has been all along that if the vaccine does not eliminate COVID & the unvaccinated are a risk only to themselves then the mandate talk has ZERO LOGIC!

I agree with the premise...however, there is really no evidence that the vaccine is tracking us, harming us, causing us to grown horns or feathers.

The unvaccinated could harm the vaccinated by causing mass shutdowns again. The simple fact is less than half the country is vaccinated. That still leaves plenty enough people to get sick and shut the country down again.

 

[jwheat]

My fiancé HAD to take it for her RN program. She didn’t want to take it because neither of us felt like we would get very sick from the virus if we caught it naturally.

she used everything in her power to get me to take it with her and I eventually folded and took the moderna with her. I was sick as **** for two days I couldn’t hardly move. No way that virus would have made me that sick.

first and last career vaccination (as an adult)

you guys considering vaccinated your children under 12 years old….how sick do you think the virus would make them compared to that stupid ******* shot?

 

[vhcat70]

Your entire post presumes that the "potential unknown effects" of the vaccine are worth taking into consideration. There is no evidence this is the case. Yet many (millions of) people are skeptical like you. It speaks to a total distrust of medicine, science, the government, etc. To the point where otherwise intelligent (at least not moronic) people believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

This didn't happen in the days of the polio vaccine. What has changed?

I also see mainstream protestants (Southern Baptists, for example) behaving as if they are Christian Scientists - skeptical of doctors, drugs, etc.

I'm just shaking my head here. And, to answer the question that is the subject of this thread, my 12 year old daughter was vaccinated. And we are looking forward to when our 10 year old son can get the vaccine too.

What has changed is that the longer government exists & the bigger it gets, the more mistakes it makes & the more it sticks its head into science - where it doesn't belong - forcing a single narrative on every dam scientific area.

Trust is fragile & government does its best to break trust in it. People expect things to be correct and so don't much think about them when they are. Make a mistake & they never forget.

That said, I trust these vaccines wholeheartedly.

 

[vhcat70]

BTW, vaccine really reduces the threat of serious illness and grateful for it but with that said:

-5,189 fully vaccinated people have been hospitalized in U.S. with COVID

-1,063 fully vaccinated people have died with COVID in the U.S.

And millions have been hospitalized with covid & 100's of Ks have died with it. The choice is starkly clear.

 

[vhcat70]

I was not slamming the vaccine. If you've read all my post on the last 2 pages you would know I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm anti-mandate for anyone especially children.

My point has been all along that if the vaccine does not eliminate COVID & the unvaccinated are a risk only to themselves then the mandate talk has ZERO LOGIC!

What's left out is those who've had covid & and aren't vaxxed. They're better off than those vaxxed, right? Why aren't those numbers discussed/considered?

 

[vhcat70]

You guys that say unknown side effects of the vaccine, how long are you waiting? What is the cut-off time you give it, and what science is that time frame based on? And I’m serious in my question, and I really think you should have an answer. And if you don’t have an answer, you should self reflect and realize why you don’t.

A number of them seize & scream on the "experimental" vaccine point. That's why I can't wait for the full approval to cut the legs out from under that position. In practice of course it makes zero difference & expect 99% of holdouts will put out other excuses to not vax.