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Kirk C. 12th Most Expensive OC In CFB

R

RuSnp

All-Conference
Jan 14, 2004
3,525
3,033
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A

ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
0
RuSnp said:
Probably due to 2019 Minn that finished 10th in the country. They went from so-so at qb the year before with Annexstad and Morgan to Morgan throwing 3000+, 30 tds, and 66% completion.
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I remember they were good back then but didn't watch close. Minn's two WRs from 2019 are still in NFL but Morgan didn't get drafted or stick as a FA. Minn was still only 47th for passing in 2019. Fleck is Schiano Jr when it comes to passing game. After 2019 success, KC went to PSU in 2020 and lasted a year.

Gophers' QB search could be pricey — and difficult, given P.J. Fleck's philosophy​


"Fleck has something else working against him: his coaching philosophy. His run-heavy, ball-control, shrink-the-game offensive approach is no secret. He has not veered from his bedrock principles in any substantive way in his seven seasons at Minnesota.

Fleck's strategy shows up in the stats. Not including the jumbled 2020 pandemic season, his Gophers have ranked near the bottom nationally in passing offense (per CFBstats.com) during his tenure:

2017: 122nd.
2018: 90th.
2019: 47th.
2021: 118th.
2022: 116th.
2023: 126th.

Passing attempts? Even more stark:

2017: 124th.
2018: 106th.
2019: 111th.
2021: 127th.
2022: 126th.
2023: 119th.

Fleck is not exactly selling an Air Raid offense to quarterback prospects. Even in 2019 when the offense featured a pair of future NFL receivers in Tyler Johnson and Rashod Bateman, Fleck didn't deviate from the script. The Gophers just squeezed more out of their opportunities that season (11-2) than others."

 
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R

rutgersal_rivals139582

Heisman
Jun 7, 2001
34,191
41,628
113
Kirk is undervalued because without his efforts, Rutgers would not have had a winning season. He worked within the constraints of low completion percentage at quarterback, a weak receiving corp, and was able to maximize the effectiveness of the running game, and offensive line and designed plays which minimized the risk of turnovers. We ended up with the Big Tens leading rusher.

The results show It was a masterful coaching job, the best I’ve seen since Fridge 2014. Without Kirk’s expertise, we could easily be 4-8. He is worth every penny and then some.
 
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RuSnp

All-Conference
Jan 14, 2004
3,525
3,033
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ashokan said:
I remember they were good back then but didn't watch close. Minn's two WRs from 2019 are still in NFL but Morgan didn't get drafted or stick as a FA. Minn was still only 47th for passing in 2019. Fleck is Schiano Jr when it comes to passing game. After 2019 success, KC went to PSU in 2020 and lasted a year.

Gophers' QB search could be pricey — and difficult, given P.J. Fleck's philosophy​


"Fleck has something else working against him: his coaching philosophy. His run-heavy, ball-control, shrink-the-game offensive approach is no secret. He has not veered from his bedrock principles in any substantive way in his seven seasons at Minnesota.

Fleck's strategy shows up in the stats. Not including the jumbled 2020 pandemic season, his Gophers have ranked near the bottom nationally in passing offense (per CFBstats.com) during his tenure:

2017: 122nd.
2018: 90th.
2019: 47th.
2021: 118th.
2022: 116th.
2023: 126th.

Passing attempts? Even more stark:

2017: 124th.
2018: 106th.
2019: 111th.
2021: 127th.
2022: 126th.
2023: 119th.

Fleck is not exactly selling an Air Raid offense to quarterback prospects. Even in 2019 when the offense featured a pair of future NFL receivers in Tyler Johnson and Rashod Bateman, Fleck didn't deviate from the script. The Gophers just squeezed more out of their opportunities that season (11-2) than others."

Click to expand...
I agree with most of your points on this but think you're basing too much of your argument on the data point of Kirk being fired after only a year at PSU. That was the Covid year with all its weirdness. And post Saquon, all those receivers and Mcsorley, I view that job as basically impossible. You're not as good as OSU or Michigan but if you don't beat them the year is a failure. And Franklin needs somebody to blame for that reality.
 
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MADHAT1

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,518
15,497
113
Kirk, like many college coaches, is probably overpaid, but he might just be one of the better B1G OCs according to this ( from when he was hired):
>Adam Breneman, who is in his first year as an analyst with the Big Ten Network, ranks Ciarrocca among the top five offensive coordinators in the conference. Ciarrocca checks in at No. 4 on Breneman’s ranking.<

 
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A

ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
0
rutgersal said:
Kirk is undervalued because without his efforts, Rutgers would not have had a winning season. He worked within the constraints of low completion percentage at quarterback, a weak receiving corp, and was able to maximize the effectiveness of the running game, and offensive line and designed plays which minimized the risk of turnovers. We ended up with the Big Tens leading rusher.

The results show It was a masterful coaching job, the best I’ve seen since Fridge 2014. Without Kirk’s expertise, we could easily be 4-8. He is worth every penny and then some.
Click to expand...

Maybe.
I still remember KC as RU's OC in 2010 - worst team I ever saw (that I followed).

I thought OL coming around under OL's Coach Flaherty (350K) was more of a reason for success. They got better as season went on and they were crushing defenders in 4th Q. Haven't seen that in a couple decades at RU.

GW's best skill was running and I always expected to see more (as did announcers) but it never really came as it should have. RU runs what I call a "Prevent Offense" where you play with one hand behind your back to avoid a few turnovers.

Greg said OL couldn't block for long passing and KC adjusted for that (and made viable by restored run game) so that's a bonus point. But for 1.4 million? If I have a choice between OC of Rutgers, Oregon and Georgia maybe I might still have to take KS because Greg would crib death the other two guys.

 
N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
13,604
12,367
0
rutgersal said:
Kirk is undervalued because without his efforts, Rutgers would not have had a winning season. He worked within the constraints of low completion percentage at quarterback, a weak receiving corp, and was able to maximize the effectiveness of the running game, and offensive line and designed plays which minimized the risk of turnovers. We ended up with the Big Tens leading rusher.

The results show It was a masterful coaching job, the best I’ve seen since Fridge 2014. Without Kirk’s expertise, we could easily be 4-8. He is worth every penny and then some.
Click to expand...

Good thing they moved on from that low completion percentage QB then, right?
 
R

rutgersal_rivals139582

Heisman
Jun 7, 2001
34,191
41,628
113
ashokan said:
Maybe.
I still remember KC as RU's OC in 2010 - worst team I ever saw (that I followed).

I thought OL coming around under OL's Coach Flaherty (350K) was more of a reason for success. They got better as season went on and they were crushing defenders in 4th Q. Haven't seen that in a couple decades at RU.

GW's best skill was running and I always expected to see more (as did announcers) but it never really came as it should have. RU runs what I call a "Prevent Offense" where you play with one hand behind your back to avoid a few turnovers.

Greg said OL couldn't block for long passing and KC adjusted for that (and made viable by restored run game) so that's a bonus point. But for 1.4 million? If I have a choice between OC of Rutgers, Oregon and Georgia maybe I might still have to take KS because Greg would crib death the other two guys.

Click to expand...
You’re not getting the oc of Oregon or Georgia here last year, because offensively, we just didn’t have enough personnel to mount an effective offensive attack. Kirk effectively worked with what he had and made us respectable, despite an adverse situation. Best OC job since fridge.

This year, we have the personnel, but the WRs behind the starters are mostly green. But at least we have capable starters.
 
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ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
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rutgersal said:
You’re not getting the oc of Oregon or Georgia here last year, because offensively, we just didn’t have enough personnel to mount an effective offensive attack. Kirk effectively worked with what he had and made us respectable, despite an adverse situation. Best OC job since fridge.

This year, we have the personnel, but the WRs behind the starters are mostly green. But at least we have capable starters.
Click to expand...

Pacheco was obviously a good RB and he could barely move behind the OL he had.
Vedral was less of a threat than GW.
Injured WRs (Cruickshank) made defending vs RU easy .
Last year RU was a top team for controlling the time of possession.
RU OL was in great playing shape - stayed lively in 4th Q while defenses were wilting
Put Pacheco behind 2023 OL and Mongo behind 2021 OL and I think it would be clear OL personnel and coaching was the dif.
 
R

RUBOB72

All-American
Aug 5, 2004
23,385
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MADHAT1 said:
Kirk, like many college coaches, is probably overpaid, but he might just be one of the better B1G OCs according to this ( from when he was hired):
>Adam Breneman, who is in his first year as an analyst with the Big Ten Network, ranks Ciarrocca among the top five offensive coordinators in the conference. Ciarrocca checks in at No. 4 on Breneman’s ranking.<

Click to expand...
And he is probably right. It comes down to having players plain n simple. Always wondered why some don’t see that. The HC needs guys who can work together to institute a system where the OC. Oline, RB’s and WRer’s can generate a good to better than good offense. When has Rutgers had the potential to be a productive offense. With actual offensive threats ? The B1G question still remains can the QB room produce at the needed level? Now , we can hear from those Rutgers skeptics who will be out to tell how bad we will be in 2024…. 9-3 plus 1….
 
R

RU Cheese

All-Conference
Sep 14, 2003
4,909
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Did he do a good job last year? Sure.

If Rutgers fired him tomorrow does he get an OC job for that much money anywhere else? No.
 
R

RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
15,939
15,675
113
Our offensive coaches did a stand up job last year. We did overpay for Kirk but it was well worth it. I'm looking forward to us having an efficient offense this year as Kirk's teams generally have a nice bump in production their second year.
 
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G

GSGS

Heisman
Aug 2, 2001
27,554
20,608
113
Kirk has grown tremendously as an OC since 2010. He makes the most of the talent at his disposal. KC did wonders at Western Michigan and then at Minnesota. His one year at PSU deserves an asterisk, as it was the COVID year, and despite not meshing with Dickhead Franklin, PSU had the 2nd ranked offense (measured by yards per game) in the B1G. Kirk did an amazing job at RU last year, winning 7 games without a passing game. The best is yet to come.
 
MADHAT1

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,518
15,497
113
RU Cheese said:
Did he do a good job last year? Sure.

If Rutgers fired him tomorrow does he get an OC job for that much money anywhere else? No.
Click to expand...
On the other hand:
a top program with a poor offense sees what Kirk is doing with the talent he has at Rutgers and entices him to come to that program as their OC for a bigger payday .

Maybe a longtime B1G HC with the same first name decides to retire and that program hires KC as HC because of how he made Rutgers known more for it's offense than defence in 2024 and that's is what the Iowa AD wants for the Hawkeyes with Ferentz gone.
 
Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
85,293
82,784
113
MADHAT1 said:
On the other hand:
a top program with a poor offense sees what Kirk is doing with the talent he has at Rutgers and entices him to come to that program as their OC for a bigger payday .

Maybe a longtime B1G HC with the same first name decides to retire and that program hires KC as HC because of how he made Rutgers known more for it's offense than defence in 2024 and that's is what the Iowa AD wants for the Hawkeyes with Ferentz gone.
Click to expand...
Or maybe for PJ, third time would be the charm in hiring Kirk back. Minnesota's ranking in the B1G dropped quite a bit from 2022 to 2023 after Kirk left. In fairness, Ibrahim left for the NFL too.
 
R

RutgersDom

All-American
Nov 18, 2003
5,962
7,394
113
rutgersal said:
Kirk is undervalued because without his efforts, Rutgers would not have had a winning season. He worked within the constraints of low completion percentage at quarterback, a weak receiving corp, and was able to maximize the effectiveness of the running game, and offensive line and designed plays which minimized the risk of turnovers. We ended up with the Big Tens leading rusher.

The results show It was a masterful coaching job, the best I’ve seen since Fridge 2014. Without Kirk’s expertise, we could easily be 4-8. He is worth every penny and then some.
Click to expand...
I’d say he did a pretty good job. No way masterful. He had limitations and dealt with them. He’s got a clean slate this year from me but has a slightly better QB. OL should be better and def way better WRs. We should make a pretty good jump offensively this year.
 
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