Miami Basketball and NIL

[MoreCowbellRU]

Like I said , someone's paying taxes on any of this money and you can't hide the numbers some are saying exist for these players. Under the table with millions from wealthy alumni?? keep dreaming.

The only folks you can't legally hide it from is the IRS. A private deal between 2 parties is nobody's business but theirs.

I'm in the camp that the amounts are exaggerated. But to think there are not private side deals ,since pay for play is now allowed, would be naive.

 

[RUBlackout]

The only folks you can't legally hide it from is the IRS. A private deal between 2 parties is nobody's business but theirs.

I'm in the camp that the amounts are exaggerated. But to think there are not private side deals ,since pay for play is now allowed, would be naive.

Exactly right!

Private deals happen all the time even in donating to schools. If you had $10mm to give you probably specify exactly where that money is going rather than putting it into a general fund for the school to do what they want with it.

Why would a big donor put their money into a collective that decided where the money goes? Same concept.

 

[MiloTalon13]

I know for a fact hes getting over $1,000,000

From whom? I think you don’t understand the meaning of the word “fact”

 

[MiloTalon13]

The only folks you can't legally hide it from is the IRS. A private deal between 2 parties is nobody's business but theirs.

I'm in the camp that the amounts are exaggerated. But to think there are not private side deals ,since pay for play is now allowed, would be naive.

What’s a private side deal? A card company pays a kid to sign a bunch of stuff for example?

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

What’s a private side deal? A card company pays a kid to sign a bunch of stuff for example?

Could be literally anything. Could pay a million for him to do jumping jacks in the yard. Is there an NCAA reporting requirement for these deals? I don't think so.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Could be literally anything. Could pay a million for him to do jumping jacks in the yard. Is there an NCAA reporting requirement for these deals? I don't think so.

You really think someone is doing that? Giving a kid a million bucks for nothing but a season at a school?
I don’t believe it

 

[RUBlackout]

You really think someone is doing that? Giving a kid a million bucks for nothing but a season at a school?
I don’t believe it

My best guess is that it is money donated through a donors company for advertising (ie Ford with Caleb). No chance a donor just throws money at something without some ROI
That said, a deal is on the table for attracting talent...not the amount Kyk is stating though

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

A large part of funding comes in this form to help attract players. MORE $$$ is earned once a brand is built and you can influence on social media though--once that happens you don't depend on the donors anymore and become a free agent for highest bidders(Cavander Twins) that can increase your brand and put more $$ in your pocket.
You need the big donors to make things happen from the onset and show your capability in the game.

Btw, your facts are not facts

99%+ of players dont have value to companies. Just a fact

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You really think someone is doing that? Giving a kid a million bucks for nothing but a season at a school?
I don’t believe it

Yes. We know this lol.

I think youre a little out of touch with just how rich some people are

 

[NickRU714]

99%+ of players dont have value to companies. Just a fact

I would argue the same for most advertising with Rutgers Athletics itself.

Anyone using PSE&G just because they are giving money to Rutgers?

 

[Retired711]

You're about as sharp as a bowling ball. Maybe just a troll. NEVER said Jersey Mike's is doing ANYTHING. Disagreeing is one thing, but you literally have no clue what my point on the subject is. Nor do you care from what I can gather. If you want me to explain it to you using little words, just ask.

There should really be a remedial board for those challenged in reading comprehension. We could set up a relegation system like Soccer. Folks would get sent down to the "special" board until they master the basics of understanding the English language.

SMFH

It's very amusing how hysterical you get about being corrected on a simple matter of fact. BTW, your other points are wrong, too. Have a good day!

 

[Rhuarc]

From whom? I think you don’t understand the meaning of the word “fact”

Honestly, I think this is a gray area we don't want to touch. Thank heaven for small miracles that it's happening. I know that Kyk might engage in some hyperbole on the boards, but I'm guessing he's right on this one.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Yes. We know this lol.

I think youre a little out of touch with just how rich some people are

Who do we know this about.
Give me one NCAA player and one donor who gave him a million for one season zero value added

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

You really think someone is doing that? Giving a kid a million bucks for nothing but a season at a school?
I don’t believe it

It's possible. Some people have stupid money and are able to do whatever they want with it. Would I? No friggin' way

 

[MiloTalon13]

Honestly, I think this is a gray area we don't want to touch. Thank heaven for small miracles that it's happening. I know that Kyk might engage in some hyperbole on the boards, but I'm guessing he's right on this one.

What would a teenager do if a school gave him a million bucks? Keep it a secret. Not post anything on social media about it? Not buy his Mom a house or car and post about it on social media?

Because that’s what most of these kids would do and since none of them are doing it I think the money is greatly exaggerated

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

It's very amusing how hysterical you get about being corrected on a simple matter of fact. BTW, your other points are wrong, too. Have a good day!

Hysterical?
Yeah OK..
You've been relegated to ignore
Good luck

 

[RUBlackout7]

Who do we know this about.
Give me one NCAA player and one donor who gave him a million for one season zero value added

Dude, have you been living under a rock? Just assume that every 5* player has a $500k+ deal. Google NIL and start with Miami.

You have small schools throwing $75k at Reiber…..REIBER! And you don’t think program changing players aren’t pulling down deals in the $1M range? LOL

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

What would a teenager do if a school gave him a million bucks? Keep it a secret. Not post anything on social media about it? Not buy his Mom a house or car and post about it on social media?

Because that’s what most of these kids would do and since none of them are doing it I think the money is greatly exaggerated

I’ll leave it at this. Youre very out of touch with reality of what college sports are today and what is going on

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

What would a teenager do if a school gave him a million bucks? Keep it a secret. Not post anything on social media about it? Not buy his Mom a house or car and post about it on social media?

Because that’s what most of these kids would do and since none of them are doing it I think the money is greatly exaggerated

Maybe part of the deal is keep your mouth shut and don't do anything stupid. Most would/should be able to comply knowing there is a $1M check waiting at the end of the season.

 

[RUBlackout]

I’ll leave it at this. Youre very out of touch with reality of what college sports are today and what is going on

Agree here...this has been going on forever though and NIL has just brought it to light more.

That said...my argument was more on the specifics of the number you threw out there. A bag has been set(not your implied value) and higher bags were turned down

 

[MiloTalon13]

I’ll leave it at this. Youre very out of touch with reality of what college sports are today and what is going on

I don't believe everything I read or hear about.

Where is the money coming from? Did people who have never given to Universities or Sports Programs before suddenly giving millions and millions of dollars? I don't believe that is happening.

Are people who previously gave to general funds or athletic departments now redirecting those millions (and losing their tax advantage in the process) to NIL? If that were happening on a wide scale it would be big news.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Agree here...this has been going on forever though and NIL has just brought it to light more.

That said...my argument was more on the specifics of the number you threw out there. A bag has been set(not your implied value) and higher bags were turned down

I don't believe it's been going on forever either - here's why.
The IRS is very good at making sure money gets taxed as it changes hands.
College boosters or AAU coaches or whoever are not master money launderers.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

you preferred when the NCAA schools colluded and acted illegally against anti trust laws to deny athletes compensation they could readily receive in the free market? Yikes

I must have missed it. Did he say he preferred that?

Can anyone else confirm what kyk is saying, that Ace will make 1.4 million plus his tuition, room and board, etc to play for RU for a single year? Not sure how I feel about that.

From what I hear, paying amateur athletes is the new normal. Anyone who is old and grumpy is supposed to just keep their mouth closed. I'm not sure if you are either, but that was a recommendation/order directed at me.

 

[MiloTalon13]

I’ll leave it at this. Youre very out of touch with reality of what college sports are today and what is going on

Give me an example.

Here's my example. Penny Hardaway paid a little under $12K in moving expenses for James Wiseman and his family. WIseman was declared ineligible. $12K.

But guys all over the place were getting hundreds of thousands of dollars and nobody was getting caught. IRS looked the other way. Every schools compliance office looked the other way. Nobody left school disgruntled and ratted out their old school. Nobody spent money on something stupid and posted about it on social media.

Just like I don't believe the NIL numbers getting thrown around now, I don't believe 100's of thousands of dollars were being given to players prior to NIL.

 

[bitnez]

FWIW, there are multiple articles and outlets that reported Bacot at UNC got $541k from Crocs.

 

[RAC’emUp]

I suspect payments are a bit uneven but trending up. A 5* from California named Dennis Evans signed this year with MN for $50,000. I know this with certainty. But he ended up getting out of his LOI with them and going to Louisville for a presumably higher number. This is just one data point but for at least a time, $50k seemed like a good deal to him.

 

[MiloTalon13]

FWIW, there are multiple articles and outlets that reported Bacot at UNC got $541k from Crocs.

Where did you see the $541K numbers? I see the endorsement reported but not a number.
On3 ranks him as the #12 NCAA Basketball NIL worth

 

[ru66]

The only folks you can't legally hide it from is the IRS. A private deal between 2 parties is nobody's business but theirs.

I'm in the camp that the amounts are exaggerated. But to think there are not private side deals ,since pay for play is now allowed, would be naive.

As I said , you can't avoid taxes-- private side deals? Taxes are still involved and when you say millions to a player the IRS really wants their share and these players now become independent contractors . You know you still have to pay taxes on money you steal.

 

[NickRU714]

As I said , you can't avoid taxes-- private side deals? Taxes are still involved and when you say millions to a player the IRS really wants their share and these players now become independent contractors . You know you still have to pay taxes on money you steal.

Who said people aren’t paying taxes on NIL deals?


Are we going down the “college athletes are too dumb to pay taxes” argument again?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

As I said before...at what point does the IRS not come in and say this is a gift. I think in 2026 the exclusion number goes back to where it was in 2018.

 

[RUKen]

As I said before...at what point does the IRS not come in and say this is a gift. I think in 2026 the exclusion number goes back to where it was in 2018.

You and RU66 bring up interesting points. Aren’t there two types of NIL payments/receipts?

1). A car dealership pays an athlete $50,000 for photo ops for advertisement purposes. A business expense for the dealership. Taxable income for the student subject to federal tax and as being self employed subject to both sides of fica, employer and employee and state income tax?

2) someone gives an athlete $50,000 to play for the school. Isn’t that a gift?

 

[MiloTalon13]

You and RU66 bring up interesting points. Aren’t there two types of NIL payments/receipts?

1). A car dealership pays an athlete $50,000 for photo ops for advertisement purposes. A business expense for the dealership. Taxable income for the student subject to federal tax and as being self employed subject to both sides of fica, employer and employee and state income tax?

2) someone gives an athlete $50,000 to play for the school. Isn’t that a gift?

#2 is an NCAA violation.
The NCAA may not be stringently enforcing them right now - but there are rules.
If I read it right, only $17K of a gift to an individual is excluded from taxation in 2023
3 different people could give $17K each though

 

[NickRU714]

You and RU66 bring up interesting points. Aren’t there two types of NIL payments/receipts?

1). A car dealership pays an athlete $50,000 for photo ops for advertisement purposes. A business expense for the dealership. Taxable income for the student subject to federal tax and as being self employed subject to both sides of fica, employer and employee and state income tax?

2) someone gives an athlete $50,000 to play for the school. Isn’t that a gift?

Doubt #2 is happens. Instead it's likely routed through #1.
For example - the "collective" isn't just giving money. I would imagine they are "hiring" athletes for meet and greets or appearances (same thing Court Club does for assistant coaches. Funny nobody ever questions the ROI on staff NIL deals).

Just because nobody on the internet sees #1 or thinks the dealership is getting a terrible ROI is meaningless.
If I want to waste a $20k to have Caleb tweet about my business - that's not anyone's business.

This isn't new. Businesses are spending millions on social media "influencers" to tweet or post about brands.

 

[RUKen]

#2 is an NCAA violation.
The NCAA may not be stringently enforcing them right now - but there are rules.
If I read it right, only $17K of a gift to an individual is excluded from taxation in 2023
3 different people could give $17K each

Thank you to you and Nick. Agree there is in more cases than not no ROI for these payments for service.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This isn't new. Businesses are spending millions on social media "influencers" to tweet or post about brands.

The difference in your examples is the intent to have a return on investment.

 

[NickRU714]

The difference in your examples is the intent to have a return on investment.

I've been offered free merchandise by (very small) brands.
If they are expecting a return on that investment (from my 100 IG followers) then they are sorely mistaken.

Does ROI only have to be huge?
Giving Ace Bailey $$$ for 1 appearance may be a bad ROI. But businesses make those everyday.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Give me an example.

Here's my example. Penny Hardaway paid a little under $12K in moving expenses for James Wiseman and his family. WIseman was declared ineligible. $12K.

But guys all over the place were getting hundreds of thousands of dollars and nobody was getting caught. IRS looked the other way. Every schools compliance office looked the other way. Nobody left school disgruntled and ratted out their old school. Nobody spent money on something stupid and posted about it on social media.

Just like I don't believe the NIL numbers getting thrown around now, I don't believe 100's of thousands of dollars were being given to players prior to NIL.

I think the numbers are used to sensationalize. I don't know anything for sure but I don't think guys are getting 1.4 million cash or a check for the whole amount. Usually whatever the contract is worth is paid out over a certain time period. So like 1.4 million over 24 months..or 75k over 12 months...just an assumption

 

[Jerseylegends]

The difference in your examples is the intent to have a return on investment.

It's about the amount of eyes that you can bring to their brand. Marketing is weird that way, if you have a large amount of eyes on you or your name is trending, you're an influencer.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's about the amount of eyes that you can bring to their brand. Marketing is weird that way, if you have a large amount of eyes on you or your name is trending, you're an influencer.

It’s not about the eyes for most of the money for these players. It is mostly about wealthy people wanting good players for the team they root for.

The primary reason most people are donating to the collective is to be able to pay to acquire and retain the best talent.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I've been offered free merchandise by (very small) brands.
If they are expecting a return on that investment (from my 100 IG followers) then they are sorely mistaken.

Does ROI only have to be huge?
Giving Ace Bailey $$$ for 1 appearance may be a bad ROI. But businesses make those everyday.

The intent is what matters. We all know it is a gift.