Fat fingered title, typo. Should read Millennials
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Millenials song
- Thread starter Tarheelhusker
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Fat fingered title, typo. Should read Millennials
Kids these days!
A father wrote several angry letters to his daughter about his son (her brother):
My son had a stable job
He could make a steady income playing traditional music
He could make side income teaching students
He lived in nice lodging
He could “marry up” to a girl from a prosperous local family
Unfortunately my son:
Quit his job and moved to the big city
Lived in a flop house
Married the flop house landlord’s daughter without my blessing
Had financial troubles
Spent a lot of time playing with the latest tech toys
Didn’t take any of my advice
Partied a lot/drank heavily
Signed: Leopold Mozart
A father wrote several angry letters to his daughter about his son (her brother):
My son had a stable job
He could make a steady income playing traditional music
He could make side income teaching students
He lived in nice lodging
He could “marry up” to a girl from a prosperous local family
Unfortunately my son:
Quit his job and moved to the big city
Lived in a flop house
Married the flop house landlord’s daughter without my blessing
Had financial troubles
Spent a lot of time playing with the latest tech toys
Didn’t take any of my advice
Partied a lot/drank heavily
Signed: Leopold Mozart
I am a millennial and do not think like they do. I work for what I have and will become, don't look for handouts, and know I get what I put into it. I plan to repay my debts because it's no one else fault that I decided to make those decisions, all $140k.
With that said, a reason for "millennial" generation is the way they are is because our parents allowed it to happen. They didn't beat the hell of their children when they deserved to get their a** whipped like my parents did to myself. They allowed entitlement and rewards for participation without work or dedication. They blamed others instead of looking at themselves. Teachers were the problem, not their children (witnessed first hand with my brother, now my parents recognize it).
Are our parents entirely to blame? Absolutely not. We must take responsibility for our actions and decisions.
Millennial stupidity is multifactorial.
With that said, a reason for "millennial" generation is the way they are is because our parents allowed it to happen. They didn't beat the hell of their children when they deserved to get their a** whipped like my parents did to myself. They allowed entitlement and rewards for participation without work or dedication. They blamed others instead of looking at themselves. Teachers were the problem, not their children (witnessed first hand with my brother, now my parents recognize it).
Are our parents entirely to blame? Absolutely not. We must take responsibility for our actions and decisions.
Millennial stupidity is multifactorial.
A
anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
Guest
You don't need to "beat" anything to make it responsible. That are many, many, many other alternatives that are just as likely (or more) to be effective and also without the other crap that is generated from physical abuse. Sorry to read that you feel that way.
Blame the teachers too huh...yikes. Sure, some are bad (just like in any profession) but generalizing there is quite comical too. Sounds like you want to go live in the "old west"....
Blame the teachers too huh...yikes. Sure, some are bad (just like in any profession) but generalizing there is quite comical too. Sounds like you want to go live in the "old west"....
Nah, just sick of getting lumped into the whole Millennial thing when I can't stand them myself. I realize my statement was kind of a blanket statement. Of course you are right about multiple forms of discipline. I never thought of getting spanked as physical abuse. I knew that I did wrong and didn't do it again. Do not remember pain at all.
Secondly, you are right about the teacher thing, as am I, because it was also a blanket statement. Obviously all of the outliers for each factor are the ones that get exposed, and hence give the perception of Millennials.
Appreciate your response. There is a big difference between a spank and #$$ whoopin IMO. I do understand your frustration tho with being blanket labeled. FWIW I can't stand most baby boomers but I do recognize it's not fair to paint with a broad brush...there are good and bad-just like with Millennials..
GBR
GBR
Yeah i'm gen x and this is my feelings. if you get millenials in the right situation they blow baby boomer work ethic out of the water. i can't count the number of baby boomers that i've known that scream work ethic and do drugs on the side. when you force square peg in round hole then you get attitudes like the song above. the biggest issue with millenials is they're the first generation of kids that had their parents genuinely try and allow them to be themselves.
and i really do mean the first. most generations before them squashed that impulse -- usually with prejudice and extremely harshly.
when you take steps back and look at things from that lens, they're not so bad -- you just need to talk to and treat them like individuals and not cogs in your machine.
the catch is... a large amount of them don't have the talent to be anything but cogs in a machine and don't have the self-awareness to recognize it. they think they're special. well... then the song above is pretty accurate. however, they don't need to realize that when they're 20. even when they're 30... so what? life's too short to sit there and "be realistic" when realism is being bent over by your parents (and that's what's happened, don't kid yourself).
it's an interesting generation when all is said and done -- and the funny thing is that in 40 years they'll be saying the same things about their grandkids.
one other note: i touched on it a little, but anywho... i don't think the baby boomers have any room to talk when they've saddled these kids with obscene debt (and i'm not only talking national debt) and driven up costs of virtually everything through leverage and debt to the point that things are more difficult than when the boomers were kids by huge factors. when you make any comparison of costs (college, house, etc) it's all wildly blown out of proportion by the government. Then boomers come out and ***** that the kids are lazy when most of them are just disillusioned and cynical.
it's honestly a little hilarious being in the middle. the baby boomers call millennials entitled, and the millenials come back with "entitlements... guess who's the kings and queens of them". the truth somewhere in the middle? not really IMO... it's the parents' responsibility in the end.
Plus we Xers had the best music growing up. 
I am so out of the loop, what generation am I in? Born in 71 raised in the 80's and college in the 90's.
Actually, it didn't work very well and that is the point. While the music was some of the greatest ever, Mozart's life was a mess and he died at age 34. It doesn't matter (IMHO) whether someone is a genius or a Baby Boomer or a Millennial, etc. Some people make good choices and some don't.
Nailed it. We have very little love & respect for the way the boomers have run things during their time in charge. Know why you guys respected the Greatests? They actually did a good job! The country flourished under their watch!
Actually just was at a conference where the lunchtime presentation was about Millennials. I've done some reading on them lately so that I can pass it along to the owners and managers I work with.
They're not that different if you can get over the need to be treated like you're hot **** as a boss. They don't like formality, they don't like antiquated workplace setups that are no longer justified for reasons other than "well we always did it that way" and they're aggressive. It's funny how people want to be treated like you should bend the knee in their presence and stroke their ego because they're a mid-to-upper manager and if you look at them funny, YOU'RE the entitled one.
We come along and point out that it's stupid to treat people below you like crap just because you got treated that way and you all are just beside yourselves.
A lot of the reason millennials don't respect the old ways is they watched their parents do the whole "pay your dues" thing and be loyal, and guess what? The company is not loyal to YOU any more. Their parents got laid off while they were in college, then they graduated and there were no jobs. You're damn right they live with their parents, the family needs 3-4 incomes to keep the house after mom & dad got downsized and had to settle for being underemployed just to keep SOME money coming in!
Pick a lane FFS. The same people who will tell somebody they're poor because they don't save their money and they're living beyond their means want to crack the "parents' basement" jokes. You want them to go get an apartment they can't afford and get evicted? Would that suit you better?
You think that kid is gonna roll in and kiss the bosses' asses in hope of getting that gold watch in 40 years? Forget it. We know better than to believe it works like that any more. We don't want anything different from what anyone else wants, we just have the stones to walk in and ask for it instead of spending decades slowly dying inside.
Beav - I generally enjoy your posts and as I recall, usually agree with your points of view. I wager if we ever met we would have a nice time chatting. That is why it pains me so much to see that you have fallen for the whole "us against them" mindset that modern media loves to stoke because it divides our society and gives them more juicy stuff to write about.
I am a 35-year career, very senior person in a position of authority who is a "late Boomer." I spend between one and two hours every day mentoring "Millennials." I don't treat them like crap because I was coming up (I wasn't) or because I am full of myself. I am pretty nice mostly. I truly want to see my young employees grow up in the business world and succeed. That is why I expect them to be on time. I expect them to dress appropriately for the situation be it formal or casual. I expect them to push back when they are passionate about a point of view, but mostly do what I suggest without pushing back just to push back. I expect them to have eye-contact, sit up straight, pay attention, and not mumble when they talk. I expect them to learn to make points succinctly and not babble. If they make a mistake I explain why. If they make the same mistakes repeatedly, I say unkind things. If it is obvious I am not getting good effort, I say unkind things. When they shine I cheer, fist-bump and high-five them. Maybe my company won't be here 10 years from now. Maybe my company will stab them in the back 10 years from now. That is no excuse in my opinion to not give maximum effort now because they "might" get screwed later.
I am feared a little I suppose, but mostly well liked. They know I am there for them. I believe (and I could be wrong) most people want to value their work. They want to feel valued. They want to be shown the way. They don't mind (and I believe "want") a slap in the fannie when they need it.
If what I ask is the "old ways" and done just because it has always been done that way, I am guilty as charged. But until the business world changes to not expect good work done by punctual, friendly, respectful, competent, professional acting and looking people, I have no choice but to teach them as I do and be a bit of a hardass when required.
I haven't found it to be a generational trait to be on time and have good communication skills. You're describing well-documented patterns of verbal and non-verbal communication that really aren't generation-specific.
What is an evolving difference that my generation is coming to expect is that if the work can be done any time, we don't see the need for everyone to be in at 9 and out at 5. We're much more concerned with the end result of our work and less concerned about how it's attained. You can thank technology for that. We grew up with computers, and we're very used to having them accessible at all times. So for a computer-driven job, we don't see the necessity of driving to an office at a certain time if the customer is not reliant on our presence.
Each generation has its slobs and its stars. I have friends my age I'd work with anywhere in any company, and others I wouldn't hire for much more than mowing my yard.
It's odd to me that it's become such a thing for people higher on the org chart to throw up their hands and make a big deal of not knowing what to do with millennials.
Thanks for clarifying, I wasn't sure what old fashioned concepts (timeliness, eye contact, etc.) you had a problem with, but I see where you are coming from now. Please reread this sentence several times, it is so much like what people who want to stereotype "Millennials" use for ammunition. It is the person who writes the paychecks who gets to be concerned with the results of the work and how it is attained. If you take risks, and bust hump for 20 years to have your own business, you can let people work when and how you want them to. Until then, you work for the man and his rules. Always been like that, always will. What you need to do is not maintain seething anger at the rules, but embrace them and use them to your advantage.
Another example of fodder for the Millennial bashers ("I'm special"). This could also be perceived as patronizing, though you probably didn't mean it that way. I built logic circuits by exposing the design to photosensitive material, then transferring to 5-inch wafers using a step-and-repeat camera in the late 70s. I was also involved with the changeover from 10-inch, 45 Meg reel tapes to optical platters. So even though I am an "old guy", the concept of binary devices is not totally unfamiliar. I grew up with them too. I wish I had you around today to help a young guy (who also grew up with computers) print some stuff out for me. Making the color printer do anything but grey-scale was kicking his ***. Getting it to print for him double-sided was out of the question. I helped him.
As far as the rest, sounds like you are stuck in a bad company. I visit lots of companies (STEM employees) and the young folks at most of them seem fairly happy and motivated. But maybe they really aren't and are just putting on a happy face for the old guy.
I don't think anyone is against getting their work done (on time, professionally, etc.). Millennials react worse to micro-managers is the biggest difference that i've seen. Boomers will keep their head down and shrug it off. Millennials take it personally.
Neither one is really wrong -- and both reactions have weaknesses. The boomer reaction basically kills off any help that the boss might have gotten. the Millennial's reaction creates at least the appearance of dissent, even if the only thing that is really being asked is "why?".
if you're in an environment where the boss isn't always right, the millennial way works better (the constant ever-growing ideal where dialogue matters). if you're in an environment where that isn't the case, well... suddenly you might think you've got a know-it-all problem. the "old school" mentality that i've heard quoted so often is more often about "do what you're told and shut up" than most millennials are comfortable with.
honestly i think that's the biggest reason there's been a downturn in armed services enlistment. the millennials don't like being in an environment where their voice doesn't mean anything.
that doesn't make either side wrong -- it just so happens (like was just said above) that the people who have worked for 20 years and busted their butt own the company so you do what they say. And there's nothing wrong with one side saying that, and the other side bitching about it -- it's not like any other generation has EVER done that before (extreme sarcasm should have come through with that).
the difference between now and previous generations? millennials will just get up and leave if they're not happy. and the bosses that realize that and are willing to structure their company in a way that sympathizes are keeping their people -- and the ones that don't, won't.
Neither one is really wrong -- and both reactions have weaknesses. The boomer reaction basically kills off any help that the boss might have gotten. the Millennial's reaction creates at least the appearance of dissent, even if the only thing that is really being asked is "why?".
if you're in an environment where the boss isn't always right, the millennial way works better (the constant ever-growing ideal where dialogue matters). if you're in an environment where that isn't the case, well... suddenly you might think you've got a know-it-all problem. the "old school" mentality that i've heard quoted so often is more often about "do what you're told and shut up" than most millennials are comfortable with.
honestly i think that's the biggest reason there's been a downturn in armed services enlistment. the millennials don't like being in an environment where their voice doesn't mean anything.
that doesn't make either side wrong -- it just so happens (like was just said above) that the people who have worked for 20 years and busted their butt own the company so you do what they say. And there's nothing wrong with one side saying that, and the other side bitching about it -- it's not like any other generation has EVER done that before (extreme sarcasm should have come through with that).
the difference between now and previous generations? millennials will just get up and leave if they're not happy. and the bosses that realize that and are willing to structure their company in a way that sympathizes are keeping their people -- and the ones that don't, won't.
I think in many ways, the culture here places way too much importance on self & individualism, with it's rewards as purely monetary.. Granted it does benefit society in that new inventions are achieved by allowing and encouraging out of the box thinking, but society pays a heavy toll for having a selfish and materialistic culture. This country is setup to be a meat grinder.. competition in everything we do. There are good and bad sides to it, but at the end of the day, I think many people are not happy because the rewards are not actually satisfying.
The one thing I have seen from Millennials is the growing trend of collecting experiences, rather than collecting things. I think that is a healthy start.
The one thing I have seen from Millennials is the growing trend of collecting experiences, rather than collecting things. I think that is a healthy start.
When I came across the song, I thought it was a clever paradoy of Ob la di Obla da Then I saw this photo of pajama boy. The photo comparison was sobering. I have nothing against Millennials or their take on life, to each his own.
I didn't mean to cause a ruckus.
I didn't mean to cause a ruckus.
Full disclosure, my company is awesome. I worked remote yesterday and was reviewing financials in my back yard. I have great bosses and this is the first place where if I get the "where do you see yourself in 5 years" I'm happy to say I'd still be here if there's room for me to grow. I have certainly worked other places where that was not the case and the employees all had a mindset of "Yeah, it's awful here but I won't find better 401(k) and insurance than this anywhere else." The topic is of great interest to me because I see it mentioned very frequently, and I see it written about with these sweeping generalizations. I can't help but feel like the way it's covered is making it a bigger monster than it really should be.
As I'm sure you know, certain perks and relaxations in the workplace are a good investment because they can help you recruit and retain talent. Sounds like you've been much more closely involved with computing than the average person who was in the work force by the 70s and 80s, but you get my point about remote work being a relatively new concept.
At some jobs, it makes sense for things to be pretty regimented. For example, my members are funeral directors. They have good reason for needing to wear a suit to work, be at the firm at a certain time, be clean-shaven, etc. If the realities of your clientele demand that of your team, then by all means, the person cutting the checks has to demand that.
But if their lone justification is 'because dammit that's the way I want it and I write the checks' then it may cost them good people. No matter what line of work you're in, you gotta empathize with your external customers and your "internal customers" who help you get the job done. It's not always an asset to build a homogeneous team of people who think and work the same way.
Agree with everything you said except for the armed services part. You saw a big jump in sign-ups after 9/11 and you'd REALLY see it if a sovereign nation overtly attacked on U.S. soil like Japan did at Peal Harbor.
Nice post. Like I said, should we ever meet, I think we would have a nice chat - definitely a lot of common ground.
Don't worry guys, this will all be settled THIS FALL ON CBS!!!!
i had known that on some level and should have said that too. i was making a more general statement that enlistment was generally lower -- not that millenials don't care because they very obviously stepped to the plate after 9/11. i believe that is correct (and if i'm wrong feel free to tell me).
god knows i've seen that type of argument degenerate into condescension and indignation on both sides and i have better things to do than to start that firestorm.
Since we are making broad sweeping generalizations, I will step up for the Gen X crowd.
We don't like the Boomers that much. They pretty screwed up a good thing by being all me, me, me. We admired the generation that came before them. They worked there butts off and believed in loyalty, etc. We are ok with Millennials, but they tend to take credit for things that we accomplished before them.
We don't like the Boomers that much. They pretty screwed up a good thing by being all me, me, me. We admired the generation that came before them. They worked there butts off and believed in loyalty, etc. We are ok with Millennials, but they tend to take credit for things that we accomplished before them.
Two Gen Xers discussing investing: "Do you save your cash in your mattress or buried in the back yard?"
Gen X five-course meal: Four glasses of craft beer and a slice of pizza
Gen X work/life balance: No balance, one has to work to balance it with life.
Gen X sex: None, why bother?
Gen X good day: Being awake for 18 hours, and being angry about something during each of the 64,800 seconds.
Sorry Marlow.....I couldn't resist.
I'm gen x. All the boomers I know including my parents worked their asses off. My millenial nephews and nieces are completely worthless. Everyone has a different story.
i'm still not seeing how stereotyping like this is helping anybody -- and once again... how much of that is a square peg in round hole problem?
i have no idea how much of your personal situation is you just spouting off. for all i know, a couple your nieces and nephews are world video game champions and make 6 figures playing games -- or they just don't have the corporate drive and are happy with small-time jobs (it's happened -- a lot) -- and your family is as supportive as a hole in the head.
or, you could be correct (and even being kind at calling them useless) and they're a bunch of druggies. i have no idea.
just like you have no idea how much my situation is me spouting off -- except i didn't tell you much about my particular situation.
the point with my side of the rant was that the mindsets are different and that spouting off things like you just did -- mindless drivel saying people are worthless without trying to see and tell the other side of the story -- is rather pointless.
i was most definitely not trying to sit there and say that all millennials are hard workers. in fact, I've blatantly come out and said the opposite (i'm too lazy to dig up the quotes).
the only thing i really did was say that the boomers have zero room to criticize, no matter how hard they worked -- not even a little bit of room. and if you want me to go off on that one, feel free to keep coming back at me -- because the generation that spent most of their lives saying "we are screwing up our kids' future by spending all this money" and then went and did it anyway .... well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that ego has less than zero place there.
Keep in mind alot of baby boomers like myself been fighting against the things that created this massive debt and we fought against it every step of the way the last 40- to 50 years. We didnt know for sure but it sure seemed like the policies and philosphies our govt and society were adopting would eventually lead to where we are now.
Credibility issue still stands and it's not close to debateable. it doesn't matter if you tried or not because we live in a results oriented world -- and the same generation after all this economic malaise still wants everyone to do the same things. Throw in the fact that you're trying to "educate" these kids that results and professionalism are what matter and boomers don't come off with much credibility at all. You can sit there and say "oh we screwed up" but how much credibility does that even give you?
most of the people who i hear saying the things you just said ('we tried to stop them') are republicans. so i'll ask you one question that is flat out a big/small government questions -- even though you might not like the answers.
are you in favor of balancing the budget? if so, do you realize that at this point that will probably collapse our economy and require the repealing of a lot of "moral" laws that you have most likely supported? If you cut funding, policemen and women will not be capable of enforcing most of the laws that you have approved -- starting with and most definitely not ending with pot laws.
in other words -- if you're in favor of laws due that favor your morality, you are in favor of big government.
i'll be honest -- most boomer republicans i've ever met can't even get past that question. my dad is on that list fyi.
i've honestly gotten into arguments/discussions with republican boomers for years on this. they'll sit there on one side and say "we tried to get them to stop"... except then you examine it a little deeper and they did nothing of the sort. both parties -- both of them -- are big government fascists and the boomers have done nothing but blame their political rivals instead of looking in the mirror.
and their constant refrain to their kids once they became adults was "shut up and work harder". there will be a reaction (not a positive one either) to that, and if you're shocked you're an idiot. nobody with a soul who has watched that charade would be willing to just go to work 9-5 and shut their mouth -- most of these kids still have their soul, even if their ideals aren't always viable.
did you vote for either political party -- even once?
did you vote against the guys responsible?
are you willing to admit just how screwed up your mindsets have been?
honestly if you can't take a step back and realize that the kids have their points then well... you're just a lost soul.
maybe 1 in 10,000 of you have -- which is why our economic problems haven't been fixed yet because god knows your generation has virtually all the power.
I'm an operator for a excavation company, every millennial I've had labor for me has been a nightmare and never last long. You can't generalize all of them due to this experience, but so far, they are 0 for a 37.
Yeah yeah, we're used to the razzing. We've been the butt of these jokes for a few decades now.
Is it even possible to excavate something while on your phone? That's just your own damn fault, Jnood.
I couldn't listen to more than 5 seconds of it before I wretched from the sickeningly sucrose sweet arrangement. It made me nauseous.
Every generation has jerks and idots...as well as incredibly talented hard-working people. I think it's pretty ridiculous to label someone based on when they were born.
Every generation has jerks and idots...as well as incredibly talented hard-working people. I think it's pretty ridiculous to label someone based on when they were born.
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