Mullen and Upsets

[Coach34]

Since 2010- We are 24-15....We have lost to:

Alabama-3 losses...they are 35-5
LSU- 3 losses...they are 34-6
UPig- 2 losses...they were 21-5 those two seasons
Auburn- 2 losses...they went 22-5 in those 2 seasons
Georgia- 1 loss- they won 10 games, and won the East title
SC- 1 loss- they went 11-2
Texas A&M- 1 loss - they went 11-2 and had the Heisman winner
Northwestern- 1 loss- they won 10 games
Mississippi- went 7-6

In the SEC the last 3 years- only two 10+ win teams have lost to a team with less than 10 wins: SC over Bama at home in 2010, and Auburn over SC in 2011.

So, let's dont act like it's a Mullen problem. For the most part- the only teams beating 10+ win SEC teams are other 10+ win SEC teams. Mullen only has 2 losses to teams that didnt win 10+ the last 3 years both on the road @Auburn and @OM. I'm still pissed off about those losses also- but those types of games do happen, especially on the road.

Comments like "I've been saying Mullen isnt that good of a coach" is just flat out ********. We havent had 10 win type talent- especially on offense. A better comment would be "I dont think Mullen can recruit well enough to get our talent level to the 10 win plateau"- now there you might have a point. But Starkville and our students have to do more in regards to helping this as well. Recruiting is just not a Mullen-thing - it's a Mississippi State thing

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Concur, 100%.

 

[Walter White.sixpack]

You make good points. But sometimes it's not that we lost but HOW we lost.

Some of those games we looked flat, had no emotion, and made no adjustments defensively OR offensively.

 

[Will James]

Again, I think this past year was not that we lost but HOW we lost. Complete ineptitude against the only teams with pulses. Giving up. Terrible gameplans. No in game adjustments. No game to game adjustments. In those losses we were pathetic.

ETA Looks like Walter and I are on the same page

 

[was21]

It's doubtful that State will ever get to a point in the SEC where a 10 win season will be the norm, or even recurring. The same can be said for some other teams in the conference. This also doesn't have anything to do with any shortfall of Mullen.

 

[tenureplan]

You make good points. But sometimes it's not that we lost but HOW we lost.

Some of those games we looked flat, had no emotion, and made no adjustments defensively OR offensively.

That goes for both Mullen and the players. I'm still thinking a big rift happened between Mullen and Wilson behind the scenes. The body language from everyone after the Bama game supports that.

 

[Brad Stevens.sixpack]

Good points, indeed. And thus, the life of a Mississippi State fan. Even at our best, there are so many external factors (most notably the other SECW teams) that keep us from reaching the peak.


And I'm guessing there is a typo with Arkansas' record, since there is no way they played 30 games in 2 years. I still understand your point, though.

 

[was21]

I hope you're right

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

Mullen is in no way a bad coach. I agree with you that his "inability" to get top OOS recruits, is related more to your statement: "But Starkville and our students have to do more in regards to helping this as well". The students (and alumni for that matter) can go "all in" like the Bears, or satisfy themselves with where we are--which by the way, does NOT suck. Starkville (i.e., small, rural town) is something we can't change, though we could perhaps try to change the image as being less "country." But do you really want to do that? Is winning more in football worth that? Do we want to be a party school, and wild-*** town like Oxford or do we embrace & enjoy our present roots--which people call "country" but we see as hospitable, genuine, and down to earth-- just to make 4-6 more fall weekends turn out better? I don't think we can have both.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Great, Now tell us why Mullen and the team mailed it end at the end of last year and why we should see a better effort and less pouting this year.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

This is true. Adding Texas A&M did us no favors either. This addition will cause the Bama's and LSU's of the the SEC to elevate their game even higher. Part of being a lower tier SEC team. State fans are surrounded by the restless typical SEC sports fan and that causes us to get restless also. Throw in a coach who likes to talk **** then expectations are really measured.

I still believe we are on the right path. We don't have the luxury of being impatient like some of our fellow SEC schools.

This year is important for Mullen and State but it isn't time to ring the panic bell. I would be surprised if we d better than 6-6 next year. Fourth straight bowl.....steps to consistently.

 

[57stratdawg]

Mullen is raising the floor, not the ceiling of MSU football. We'll see what happens in 2012.

 

[Lettucexxxx]

[QUOTEBut Starkville and our students have to do more in regards to helping this as well. Recruiting is just not a Mullen-thing - it's a Mississippi State thing[/QUOTE]

This has to be done. We must change with the times. Recruiting has become a monster.

 

[Coach34]

Do we want to be a party school, and wild-*** town like Oxford or do we embrace & enjoy our present roots--which people call "country" but we see as hospitable, genuine, and down to earth-- just to make 4-6 more fall weekends turn out better? I don't think we can have both.

All I'm suggesting is that Starkville, the Greeks, and the GDI's get more coordinated every January to make our recruiting weekends a little more exciting. Starkville is not a bad town- but it damn sure doesnt hurt to put on a show every January to close some deals for a couple of extra stars.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Please quit blaming our students for Mullen having a crappy personality

 

[Coach34]

Mullen is raising the floor, not the ceiling of MSU football. We'll see what happens in 2012.

Thats all Stansbury did- and some want to call him our best coach ever

I'd like to know exactly what you think our ceiling is- because it damn sure isnt 10 wins per season...like Jackie showed and now Mullen- our best hope is to get consistent in hopes of putting together a special group that can challenge big for a season or two.

8-9 wins seasons are the ceiling for State, OM, Missouri, Vandy, Kentucky and probably UPig and Tennessee moving forward

 

[tenureplan]

So it's time to fire Dan Stansbury?

Thats all Stansbury did- and some want to call him our best coach ever

I'd like to know exactly what you think our ceiling is- because it damn sure isnt 10 wins per season...like Jackie showed and now Mullen- our best hope is to get consistent in hopes of putting together a special group that can challenge big for a season or two.

8-9 wins seasons are the ceiling for State, OM, Missouri, Vandy, Kentucky and probably UPig and Tennessee moving forward

nm

 

[DerHntr]

It is fine if you don't think that Mullen did a piss poor job of coaching at the end of the season. Many of us can and will disagree with that idea. We not only lost those games, we weren't in them. We looked totally confused. Our coach barely raised an eyebrow during *** beatings. Relentless effort looked more like relentless apathy.

There is no doubt that the gap between the haves and the have nots in the SEC was wide the last two years. The big problem is it looked like we moved in the wrong direction and didn't care while we did it.

I will still argue that at some point this great coaching that we keep hearing about will be able to create a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts. I'd also like to know when he opened up the playbook in the final games because I think he may have accidentally opened it back up to page one.

 

[fishwater99]

The problem is Mullen doesn't have any upset wins, no signature victories.
This past year would have been really nice to pull one of those off.
He can't beat a Top 20 team, or he hasn't yet and I sure don't see it happening in 2013.
Mullen has led us to the mountain, but can he take us up the hill to the Top??

 

[57stratdawg]

8-9 wins seasons are the ceiling for State, OM, Missouri, Vandy, Kentucky and probably UPig and Tennessee moving forward

That's not true. That's just you controlling expectations for Mullen plain and simple. Ark was in a BCS game 2 years ago and ranked in the top 5. OM was one of the most talented teams in the country 4 years ago, and unfortunately, if they keep signing classes like they did last month, they're well on their way back.

You constantly lower the bar and apologize for Mullen. Constantly. We could find alot coaches to beat Middle Tenn State and Jackson State at home and then lose by 28 on the road to the top teams in this league. Who knows, maybe they could pull off one of these impossible upsets.

 

[Coach34]

Mullen has been to 2 NYD bowls- end of comparision...not to mention Mullen's teams arent an undisciplined national embarassment

 

[rabbitthedawg]

As an old guy who has been around the block, here is my comment. State goes into the Alabama game with seven wins and no losses. The first drive the dawgs have to tie the game ends up with a blocked field goal. Bama then takes the ball, dirves it down our throats, and basically bursts our bubble. The team never recovere from that loss. The A&M game was even worse, then they recovered and played well against LSU, beat Upig, then got caught in an Ole Miss avalanche, much as we did to them three years before! Our QB in the bowl game plays as badly as I've seen a State QB play in years and there you have it. It happens, now lets see what happens in 2013. The key to me is winning that first game this fall, then we should do well. Lose it and who know how the team will react!

 

[CoastalDog]

Dead on. If only your rational football logic translated to basketball.

 

[Coach34]

The problem is Mullen doesn't have any upset wins, no signature victories.
This past year would have been really nice to pull one of those off.
He can't beat a Top 20 team, or he hasn't yet and I sure don't see it happening in 2013.
Mullen has led us to the mountain, but can he take us up the hill to the Top??

Neither does anybody else in the SEC that isnt winning 10+ games per season

 

[dawg21]

So basically Mullen hasn't made MSU a top 10 program...

I'm still pissed about the end of last year. I think most people are including Mullen. 8-5 felt like 5-8.

 

[Coach34]

That's not true. That's just you controlling expectations for Mullen plain and simple. Ark was in a BCS game 2 years ago and ranked in the top 5. OM was one of the most talented teams in the country 4 years ago, and unfortunately, if they keep signing classes like they did last month, they're well on their way back.

You constantly lower the bar and apologize for Mullen. Constantly. We could find alot coaches to beat Middle Tenn State and Jackson State at home and then lose by 28 on the road to the top teams in this league. Who knows, maybe they could pull off one of these impossible upsets.

Arkansas has been to one BCS game in 21 years in the SEC. They put together that "special group" I mentioned- and then quickly fell back to Earth. In no way, shape, or form is UPig a 10 win per season program...

Your OM example proves my point even further- at the very best they can be- they went to back to back Cotton Bowls. They put together the best they could- and got a Cotton Bowl- one of them with an 8-4 (4-4)record Mullen has done TWICE now. Hell, they had the top pick in the NFL draft and couldnt do better than a Cotton Bowl- their ceiling is 8-9 wins just like I said

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

Amazing...

..with the same zeal you used your data, stats & tweaked analysis to prove what a pile of crap Stansbury was, it's with equal zeal you frame Mullen as some iconic figure who demands our unquestioning fealty.

 

[Arloguthrie]

Do we want to be a party school, and wild-*** town like Oxford or do we embrace & enjoy our present roots--which people call "country" but we see as hospitable, genuine, and down to earth-- just to make 4-6 more fall weekends turn out better? I don't think we can have both.

I’m with you. Oxford has gotten entirely out of control. Sure, when you drive through it seems like your typical small Southern town, a quiet, idyllic hamlet with a quaint town square featuring several fine dining establishments, independent bookstores and clothing boutiques. But just below the surface lurks a madhouse spinning rapidly out of control. Drugs, violence, prostitution - and that’s just in the indoor practice facility. The FBI recently compared Oxford to Miami during its cocaine heyday of the 1980s.

MSU should continue to put out Hee Haw videos while targeting recruits who dislike parties and attractive females.

 

[tenureplan]

NYD bowl sure sounds better than the SEC's 7th ranked tie in

nm

 

[Coach34]

..with the same zeal you used your data, stats & tweaked analysis to prove what a pile of crap Stansbury was, it's with equal zeal you frame Mullen as some iconic figure who demands our unquestioning fealty.

No, felt a little perspective was needed...Hell, Stansbury won 1 NCAA Tourney game his last 7 seasons

and football is apples to oranges to basketball and baseball

 

[boatsandhoes]

Does everyone not remember A&M has sucked ball sack for the last 15 years? While getting their *** continually handed to them by Texas and sometimes Tech. I mean their best season total before this year was 11-3 in '98. That is the only ten+ win season since '98. Look-http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27300&ATCLID=205238864

What happens if Johnny goes down last year? This year? Without Kingsbury? It is not going to be the norm for them. I say they will be about in the range of Carolina.

 

[fishwater99]

Mullen has ZERO wins over Top 20 teams.

He is 2-16 vs the Top 25 teams.

 

[diddog]

You can't just look at losses - you have to look at who we beat - NOBODY

This is the problem with evaluating MSU in the post-tough OOC era at State.

In both 2007 and 2008, we beat teams better than any team we beat in 2011 or 2012. Now you just looked at the other side of the coin - the teams that beat us. But the problem is, we haven't beat at team in the top 50 teams (according to the Sagarin football ratings) in the past two years.

Coach, I agree that the problem is that you've become an apologist for Mullen. You've staked out your reputation backing him as the "one we trust" so you've got to defend him. Again, you said when Mullen was hired, if he didn't have an overall winning SEC record in five years, then he should be fired. You've now had to backtrack from that. He may not even have a .500 record SEC record in his fifth year at MSU. His overall record in five years in the SEC? Not even close to .500.

So now with our cupcake OOC schedule most years, playing teams outside the top 100 in college football, 7 or 8 wins is the ceiling? We went 8-5 this year and didn't even beat at team in the top 50. Granted, some unexpected teams were at historic lows, like Auburn and Tennessee. Still, for example: we almost lost to Troy this year. Thank goodness they had 4 turnovers and we had none, or we would lost. They gained 457 yards on us. They were the 103 best team according to Sagarin.
For comparision, Maine in 2004 was rated 93. They were a better team than Troy. In what many on here say was the worse loss in program history, we held them to 226 yards and we outgained Maine by more than we outgained Troy this year. Problem is that we had 3 costly turnovers that year and they only had two.

I've said for years that Mullen is not a bad coach. He appears to be, though, a bad recruiter, and in college ball that is the most important aspect of being a coach. I'm predicted also for years that 2013 would be the year that Mullen's poor recruiting would really show itself. It has already showed the last two years.
I'm not satisfied with 7 or 8 or 9 wins as the ceiling. If we get the right coach with the charisma to really recruit the best players, and he is committed to staying at MSU no matter what (like a Frank Beamer at VT), then it can be done.
Like someone said, let's see how 2013 goes.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

I hope you are correct. I think Sumlin is a good coach but I agree Manziel is a difference maker. I have been reading a lot about how great they are recruiting with the SEC exposure and how deep their pockets are. That could have skewed my outlook. I hope they aren't at that level but they are in the West and I would much rather have to play Missouri every year. Hence the no favors remark.

 

[DerHntr]

I think you forgot to mention that all of those terrible things lurking in Oxford's underworld are unknown to the second coming of Jesus Christ as your head football coach and that he is just working real darn hard to make connections and build a team based on love.

Add that and you have a winner.

/I did laugh reading it.

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

Right. You're the go-to guy for perspective ...

...I got enough of your perspective when you kept telling us Mullen was hiding his best plays against our first 7 opponents, then once the Bama game arrived, Mullen ran 5 plays the whole game (I assume some of those Keystone Kops pass plays were improvised by our scared shitless players, so I won't count them).

 

[Sutterkane]

And yet we've still accomplished milestones at State while Mullen has been here. In 2010 we beat UGA for the first time since before I was born. We beat Florida in the swamp for the first time in I don't want to look back at how long it's been. Say what you want about how bad those teams were that year, but if they beat us their seasons don't look as bad. We also won in Oxford for the first time since 98, en route to beating them 3 years in a row for the first time since what, world war 2?

Same thing with Tennessee last season. They certainly weren't a good team, but they had a lot of hype coming into the game and their season is very different if they beat us. We beat UT for the first time since Peyton Manning was a freshman.

 

[Coach34]

Here is where your argument or points fail:

"Cupcake schedule" fallacy- Mullen has gone 4-4 in the SEC twice in the last 3 years, so it's more than cupcake wins. And again I remind you- except for 2 road games, his only losses are to 10+ win teams. These same "cupcakes" were beating us before Mullen took the job. How soon we forget

"Coach, I agree that the problem is that you've become an apologist for Mullen"- exactly what do I or Mullen need to apologize for? He was brought in to improve the program and win games. And he has done that. Has he made us a top 15 national program yet? No, but that takes awhile to do. It's not done overnight.

I agree that 2013 is a big year for Mullen. But he has done a very good job at State in his first 4 years.

 

[was21]

7, 8 or 9 wins as a ceiling is all we're going to get in a best case scenario...I'll take it. That's not settling for mediocrity..it's facing reality.

 

[Arloguthrie]

Therapist: Let’s play a word association game. I’ll say some words, and then you say the first thing that comes to mind. Ok?

C34: Ok.

Therapist: Rick Stansbury, all-time winningest coach at MSU, six NCAA tournament appearances, twice won the SEC Tournament, 2004 SEC Coach of the Year.

C34: Terrible coach, scum of the earth. Wears suspicious underwear. Would like to assault him in a Taco Bell parking lot while screaming, "You got something for meeeee."

Therapist: Rick Ray, current owner of a 2-12 record in the SEC and 7-19 record overall.

C34: Great coach, a real visionary. Only geniuses such as myself can appreciate what he’s doing.

Therapist: Andy Kennedy, in 6 seasons at Ole Miss has never made the NCAA tournament. Known for assaulting cab drivers.

C34: Great coach. Much better than Stansbury.

Therapist: Dan Mullen, winner of 3 out of 4 Egg B-

C34: (Ejaculates)