Multiple reports: RU fed Purdue Michigan signs at big ten championship

yesrutgers01

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Nov 9, 2008
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100% serious.
Rally around the family at all times.
I know people have teams they "hate" but personally I don't in CFB.

I'm 100% siding with UM/OSU/PSU/MD over any Big Ten West team.
Until next year when we're all one happy family of course with no division.

I don't really care but if pushed for an answer would always root for a Big Ten team against any other non-Big Ten team and hope it's a blowout.


I'm not rooting for other teams to fail just so Rutgers can fall forward.
Rutgers needs to build themselves up to pass others on their own merit.
I am not going to say you are wrong but I just don't understand the logic.

I can understand wanting the B1G to win against other conferences but we are in the B1G East- and if we are winning- I want the other East teams o lose so we are higher in the food chain. No F-ing way do I want an East team we are competing with to beat a West team that we are not.
 

Shelby65

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DJ Silly Your painful logic is, it’s ok to get advanced scouting sign stealing intel from other teams but it’s not ok to have your own staffer do it. Frankly, that’s an asinine distinction. But hey, you be you if it makes you feel smart.

You’re focused on the ‘recording’ part of the rule instead of the blanket ban on advanced, off-site scouting which both Purdue and Michigan did. Go back and read what I taught you yesterday after my ‘pay close attention:’ advice. I told you then exactly what Wetzel is telling you today.
 
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yesrutgers01

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Your logic is, it’s ok to get advances scouting sign stealing intel from other teams but it’s not ok to have your own staffer do it. Frankly, that’s an asinine distinction. But hey, you be you.


You’re focused on the ‘recording’ part of the rule instead of the blanket ban on advanced, off-site scouting which both Purdue and Michigan did. Go back and read what I taught you yesterday after my ‘pay close attention:’ advice. I told you then exactly what Wetzel is telling you today.
Some idiots just want to make up their own new rules. There is a reason that there is a focus on the "recording" part of the rule in other games your team is not involved in...

If there is a current rule that says a team cannot share information they got during their own game- then we can have that discussion. But it appears there may not be such a rule...

We have some of the dumbest trolls that I have ever seen
 

DJ Spanky

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Jul 25, 2001
46,399
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DJ Silly Your ...

Won't even waste time writing another reply:

Oh, we're gonna do insults now, you pea-brained dipshit? Ready to take this into the gutter: remember, you started it.

DJ Silly Your painful logic is, it’s ok to get advanced scouting sign stealing intel from other teams but it’s not ok to have your own staffer do it. Frankly, that’s an asinine distinction. But hey, you be you if it makes you feel smart.

You’re focused on the ‘recording’ part of the rule instead of the blanket ban on advanced, off-site scouting which both Purdue and Michigan did. Go back and read what I taught you yesterday after my ‘pay close attention:’ advice. I told you then exactly what Wetzel is telling you today.

Once again: NCAA bylaws prohibit scouting future opponents by attending their games and recording their signals. NCAA bylaws do NOT prohibit a coaching staff for one team sharing information with a coaching staff for another team.
 

Shelby65

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Some idiots just want to make up their own new rules. There is a reason that there is a focus on the "recording" part of the rule in other games your team is not involved in...

If there is a current rule that says a team cannot share information they got during their own game- then we can have that discussion. But it appears there may not be such a rule...

We have some of the dumbest trolls that I have ever seen
DJ Silly et al- The aggregate intellect here is an embarrassment to Rutgers.

you didn’t read the rule so pay attention: the rule does say a team cannot get in- person scouting from a game it’s not playing in (ie off-site). The rule doesn’t then need to say that teams can’t share it. That would be redundant.

In-person off-site scouting includes what Stalions did and also what a Rutgers and OSU coach did.



I don’t know if the Purdue scenario included sharing recordings or a shared signal database, but that doesn’t matter to the first part of rule you are ignoring. Do your homework next time
 
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yesrutgers01

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DJ Silly et al- The aggregate intellect here is an embarrassment to Rutgers.

you didn’t read the rule so pay attention: the rule does say a team cannot get in- person scouting from a game it’s not playing in (ie off-site). The rule doesn’t then need to say that teams can’t share it. That would be redundant.

In-person off-site scouting includes what Stalions did and also what a Rutgers and OSU coach did.



I don’t know if the Purdue scenario included sharing recordings or a shared signal database, but that doesn’t matter to the first part of rule you are ignoring. Do your homework next time
Let's try to slow this down for you- and I know damn well, you are purposely trolling and @DJ Spanky really should do something about it at this point.

The NCAA doesn't outlaw sign-stealing, but it has rules against in-person scouting and using electronic equipment to steal signs

Did Purdue supposedly get their information from having someone from their organization or hired by their organization attend the game "in-person" and use electronic equipment to record them?

So- you and UMRU- really need a real education or just STFU already.
 

RUforlife

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So what is the verdict from all this back and forth arguing, did Greg do something wrong and are we going to have to vacate our wins against Temple and Wagner?
 

sct1111

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Let's try to slow this down for you- and I know damn well, you are purposely trolling and @DJ Spanky really should do something about it at this point.

The NCAA doesn't outlaw sign-stealing, but it has rules against in-person scouting and using electronic equipment to steal signs

Did Purdue supposedly get their information from having someone from their organization or hired by their organization attend the game "in-person" and use electronic equipment to record them?

So- you and UMRU- really need a real education or just STFU already.
End thread. Shelby you're a mental midget and Siberiacuse fan
 

Shelby65

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Let's try to slow this down for you- and I know damn well, you are purposely trolling and @DJ Spanky really should do something about it at this point.

The NCAA doesn't outlaw sign-stealing, but it has rules against in-person scouting and using electronic equipment to steal signs

Did Purdue supposedly get their information from having someone from their organization or hired by their organization attend the game "in-person" and use electronic equipment to record them?

So- you and UMRU- really need a real education or just STFU already.
Holy god you are dumb. You don’t know what in-person means. If Michigan’s allegations are true, then yes Rutgers and Ohio State performed in-person, advanced scouting for Purdue. It can’t be any more clear.

It doesn’t depend on whether it was given by other schools or by an inside-staffer or if it wasn’t recorded, it’s still in-person scouting and still not allowed by rule.

If you can’t digest the obvious facts from
me (your vocabulary limitations), read Wetzel’s article. Caution: he uses big words too.
 
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fluoxetine

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the rule does say a team cannot get in- person scouting from a game it’s not playing in (ie off-site). The rule doesn’t then need to say that teams can’t share it. That would be redundant.
If it's legal to share but not legal to get, seems like we could disqualify the other teams by sharing our info with them unprompted. Genius move by Rutgers here.
 

Shelby65

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If it's legal to share but not legal to get, seems like we could disqualify the other teams by sharing our info with them unprompted. Genius move by Rutgers here.
Funny, but nowhere does it suggest it’s legal to share. That it’s illegal doesn’t need to be cited bc that’s already covered/redundant by the ‘receive’ ban.
 
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fluoxetine

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Funny, but nowhere does it suggest it’s legal to share. That it’s illegal doesn’t need to be cited bc it’s already covered/redundant by the ‘receive’ ban.
But that's not true? Giving and receiving are different actions.
 

Retired711

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Yeah, it’s so super fun to see goofball football fans playing wannabe lawyers. We had this for years with the psu weirdos.

PS - if you are working that hard at this…you are doing it wrong…
I'm a lawyer and have been for (gulp) more than 45 years, so I don't need to play one. What Michigan did violates a written rule that has long been in place. There's no ambiguity about the rule, and no doubt that Michigan violated it. That's all we need to know.

Should the rules be changed to ban other scouting behavior? Probably. But that doesn't change that Michigan violated a rule.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

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Holy god you are dumb. You don’t know what in-person means. If Michigan’s allegations are true, then yes Rutgers and Ohio State performed in-person, advanced scouting for Purdue. It can’t be any more clear.

It doesn’t depend on whether it was given by other schools or by an inside-staffer or if it wasn’t recorded, it’s still in-person scouting and still not allowed by rule.

If you can’t digest the obvious facts from
me (your vocabulary limitations), read Wetzel’s article. Caution: he uses big words too.

Huh? No. Rutgers and OSU scouted in person at their own games against Michigan which is allowed. There is no rule that says you cannot share information about opponents you’ve already played with other teams. Coaches trade information all the time. Maybe Purdue agreed to give us info about VTech following their game this year? Who knows. There’s no rule that says Rutgers can’t do this. The rule is you can’t travel to games your team isn’t playing in and use advanced electronic devices to spy on your opponents. Perhaps it’s a dumb rule but the point is - it’s not allowed and Michigan did it.
 

sct1111

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You know that’s false here. Both parties are complicit, just like both Stalions and the UM coaches are guilty.
Is there evidence that Rutgers recorded UMs signs? Did they send someone to other games to scout for their signs?

THATS the part that is illegal. You are allowed to steal signs. There's no law against sharing your knowledge to other coaches.
 
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Shelby65

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I'm a lawyer and have been for (gulp) more than 45 years, so I don't need to play one. What Michigan did violates a written rule that has long been in place. There's no ambiguity about the rule, and no doubt that Michigan violated it. That's all we need to know.

Should the rules ban other scouting behavior? Probably. But that doesn't change that Michigan violated a rule.
Yes Michigan did. But how do you not see that Rutgers and OSU did not also provide in-person, advanced scouting to Purdue following their games with Michigan ? The rule doesn’t distinguish between intel coming from in-house or from other programs.

The rule is clear and only covers what intel is not allowed, not who is allowed to provide it.

‘In-person’ only means obtained live as opposed to obtained via game tape. Rutgers and Ohio St. intel was obtained in-person just like Stalions’ intel was.
 

yesrutgers01

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Funny, but nowhere does it suggest it’s legal to share. That it’s illegal doesn’t need to be cited bc that’s already covered/redundant by the ‘receive’ ban.
in upstate NY is it legal for a brother and sister to have a kid together or did your parents understand the rules? Maybe they thought that since it didn't say that you can't do it when Daddy was watching, that it was ok.
 
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sct1111

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Yes Michigan did. But how do you not see that Rutgers and OSU did not also provide in-person, advanced scouting to Purdue following their games with Michigan ? The rule doesn’t distinguish between intel coming from in-house or from other programs.

The rule is clear and only covers what intel is not allowed, not who is allowed to provide it.

‘In-person’ only means obtained live as opposed to obtained via game tape. Rutgers and Ohio St. intel was obtained in-person just like Stalions’ intel was.
You are interpreting it in ways that suggests you want Rutgers (or Schiano) to get in trouble. No rational/impartial person interpets it that way.
 

Shelby65

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Huh? No. Rutgers and OSU scouted in person at their own games against Michigan which is allowed. There is no rule that says you cannot share information about opponents you’ve already played with other teams. Coaches trade information all the time. Maybe Purdue agreed to give us info about VTech following their game this year? Who knows. There’s no rule that says Rutgers can’t do this. The rule is you can’t travel to games your team isn’t playing in and use advanced electronic devices to spy on your opponents. Perhaps it’s a dumb rule but the point is - it’s not allowed and Michigan did it.
Right RU and OSU obtained it in person but but Purdue did not, and that’s why it’s not allowed.

As the rule is written, there are no exceptions for voluntary sharing. Off-site, advanced scouting is against the rules. Period.
 

UMRU

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om man...yes, it was put in place at a time when it was legal but only an elite handful had the resources to actually do it- thus, based on costs- it was an unfair advantage.
Now- let's get back to 2023- It IS a rule that was put in place in 1994. It has been in place for almost 30 years. And it is very specific.
UM blatantly broke this "maybe" stupid rule.

The part 2 of your post - stealing signs during your own game is 100% legal. And there is no rule against sharing that information.

I hope you only put RU after your UM so that you would think you had half a brain. lol
Exactly - so you do get it. If everyone steals signs, how can one team be slammed for getting a "competitive advantage"? Ohio State had Michigan's signs, had changed their own signs and still got smoked by UM. It can't be that big a deal.

Therefore what was done wrong was that some money (a few thousand $$) was spent doing it. That is not much of transgression in college sports - take a look at Kansas basketball for example.
 

Shelby65

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You are interpreting it in ways that suggests you want Rutgers (or Schiano) to get in trouble. No rational/impartial person interpets it that way.
No I don’t want RU to get in trouble. I think this kind of intel sharing is rampant. I’m sure RU receives as much as it gives. I am sure everyone does it, or hopes to.

So, the NCAA and the conference can’t really do anything about it until the rule is revamped to fully distinguish between in-house (Stalions) and interschool (Purdue) advanced scouting
 
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sct1111

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Right RU and OSU obtained it in person but but Purdue did not, and that’s why it’s not allowed.

As the rule is written, there are no exceptions for voluntary sharing. Off-site, advanced scouting is against the rules. Period.
Rutgers did the scouting not Purdue.
 

DJ Spanky

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Therefore what was done wrong was that some money (a few thousand $$) was spent doing it.

Wrong. You're trying way too hard to justify their behavior.

Money was spent to send people to games of future opponents and electronically record their sideline signals. There is an explicit NCAA bylaw prohibiting this.
 

Retired711

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Exactly - so you do get it. If everyone steals signs, how can one team be slammed for getting a "competitive advantage"? Ohio State had Michigan's signs, had changed their own signs and still got smoked by UM. It can't be that big a deal.

Therefore what was done wrong was that some money (a few thousand $$) was spent doing it. That is not much of transgression in college sports - take a look at Kansas basketball for example.
Let me put on my lawyer hat again. You're right that, well, it's only a few thousand dollars. But this is an express rule that has been around a long time. It's important that rules be enforced vigorously and that Michigan get more than a slap on the wrist. Otherwise we're creating an atmosphere in which everybody knows that a rule can be violated with virtually no consequences. It's impossible to enforce any rule unless people know that they will be punished for violating it.
 
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yesrutgers01

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Exactly - so you do get it. If everyone steals signs, how can one team be slammed for getting a "competitive advantage"? Ohio State had Michigan's signs, had changed their own signs and still got smoked by UM. It can't be that big a deal.

Therefore what was done wrong was that some money (a few thousand $$) was spent doing it. That is not much of transgression in college sports - take a look at Kansas basketball for example.
THEY BROKE THE RULE THAT IS IN PLACE.

Did you go to school at Michigan or RU. I kind of suspect neither as both provide great educations.
 
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Shelby65

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Rutgers did the scouting not Purdue.
Exactly the point. You recognize it was in-person scouting. ‘In-person’ doesn’t only mean by Purdue. It means by anyone.

The rule does not distinguish between who’s doing the scouting. In-person only means someone at the game, whether participating coaches or plants in the stands.

You are welcome.
 

Shelby65

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Let me put on my lawyer hat again. You're right that, well, it's only a few thousand dollars. But this is an express rule that has been around a long time. It's important that rules be enforced vigorously and that Michigan get more than a slap on the wrist. Otherwise we're creating an atmosphere in which everybody knows that a rule can be violated with virtually no consequences. It's impossible to enforce any rule unless people know that they will be punished for violating it.
711 please answer my plain question above. Ducking is lame.
 

Shelby65

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Huh? No. Rutgers and OSU scouted in person at their own games against Michigan which is allowed. There is no rule that says you cannot share information about opponents you’ve already played with other teams. Coaches trade information all the time. Maybe Purdue agreed to give us info about VTech following their game this year? Who knows. There’s no rule that says Rutgers can’t do this. The rule is you can’t travel to games your team isn’t playing in and use advanced electronic devices to spy on your opponents. Perhaps it’s a dumb rule but the point is - it’s not allowed and Michigan did it.
No, the rule isn’t ’you can’t travel’. It says in-person, advance scouting isn’t permitted period, whether by you or by another party.

RU and OSU provided exactly that to Purdue. You are missing what is meant by ‘in person’. It just means someone at the game, including participating coaches, Stalions, whoever.
 
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yesrutgers01

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No, the rule isn’t ’you can’t travel’. It says in-person, advance scouting isn’t permitted period, whether by you or by another party.

RU and OSU provided exactly that to Purdue. You are missing what is meant by ‘in person’. It just means someone at the game, including participating coaches, Stalions, whoever.
CBS had camera men "in-person" so- if Iowa has anyone watch our game last week and take what they saw and used it in our game...you are really a stupid person- no wait- you are a Cuse troll...
 

Scarlet16e2

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The more I think about this story, where someone quotes second hand info that signs were provided by Rutgers, the more I don’t buy it.
No inside info but I would not think that Greg Schiano and Jeff Brohm send each other Christmas cards. Anyone remember the “stomping on the Louisville logo” hullabaloo back in the Big East days?
 

Shelby65

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CBS had camera men "in-person" so- if Iowa has anyone watch our game last week and take what they saw and used it in our game...you are really a stupid person- no wait- you are a Cuse troll...
Watching television video isn’t against the rules. That’s not ‘in-person’ sign stealing. It’s sad the great lengths you’re going to refute the obvious facts.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

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The more I think about this story, where someone quotes second hand info that signs were provided by Rutgers, the more I don’t buy it.
No inside info but I would not think that Greg Schiano and Jeff Brohm send each other Christmas cards. Anyone remember the “stomping on the Louisville logo” hullabaloo back in the Big East days?
That was as much BS then as Colorado saying Matt Rhule and Nebraska "disrespected the Buffalo".

Just a BS negative motivation thing that Louisville used to fire up their team.

And if anyone watched that game.. we came out in the first half and smacked em around. There was no physical payback for "stomping on the Cardinal". We'd lose and they'd claim it was because we "stomped the Cardinal".. but that was BS then and is still BS. Same as the Sanders' boys claims about their Nebraska game. BS.
 
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sct1111

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No, the rule isn’t ’you can’t travel’. It says in-person, advance scouting isn’t permitted period, whether by you or by another party.

RU and OSU provided exactly that to Purdue. You are missing what is meant by ‘in person’. It just means someone at the game, including participating coaches, Stalions, whoever.
Where does it say that?
 

Mikemarc

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You guys seem to be arguing about the NCAA rule regarding in person scouting..but I think the policy if any that RU, OSU and Purdue should be worried about is the Big Ten policy regarding sportsmanship and integrity of the game.
 
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Shelby65

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Where does it say that?
Is implied since it’s not addressed specifically in the rule.

The rule only says off site in-person advance scouting isn’t allowed. It’s silent on ‘by who’. That means, it’s not allowed by anyone.

Maybe in hindsight the NCAA should have differentiated. Maybe now they will change the rule to allow one but not the other.

But right now both Michigan and Purdue/OSU/RUare on the wrong side of the rule. I’m sure most of CFB is also guilty of this.
 
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