Multiple reports: RU fed Purdue Michigan signs at big ten championship
- Thread starter Mikemarc
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Scouting opponents signs in-game is perfectly legal. If we just shared what we picked up during our game with Michigan, then I see no problem with this.
The rule Michigan violated involves in person scouting of opponents as well as recording said scouting.
The rule Michigan violated involves in person scouting of opponents as well as recording said scouting.
Since it's Rutgers getting involved, we'll get the death penalty.
Yup somebody will need to pay the price for B1G blue bloods Mich and tOSU.
I'm not sure about that. From the other articles yesterday that was mentioning this stuff it was teams sharing signals together and deciphering stuff from their own games and films and putting it together in a sort of database.
That's a roundabout way to the same thing Michigan did. You can share info" hey this player does this" or "has a tendency of this "etc..but if you're going and looking at signals and then putting it together with other coaches on other teams that basically in person scouting for each other. There was also stuff in the articles yesterday mentioning putting together films from each others games with Michigan to decipher. You cand use your own film for yourself and you give film to your upcoming opponents but don't know that you can share and collaborate films with others beyond that. Again a roundabout way of electronic recording.
You open a can of worms, you don't know where it ends up or how deep the rabbit hole goes. I wouldn't be surprised if similar things are done often among coaches/assistants. It's probably somewhat "normal" but don't know that it's not against the rules. That's a NCAA thing though.
The colluding like that might be against B10 sportsmanship rules which are opaque purposely from what I've read and have a wider berth of interpretation so who knows.
Guy's previous tweets give him away as having a hard on for Michigan. I don't think there is anything to see here.
Update: He's way too obsessed with Michigan....
Update: He's way too obsessed with Michigan....
Contrary to the thread's title, this does not come from the New York Times. It comes from a free-lance writer who has written a book that has appeared on the New York Times' best seller list. He is not a New York Times reporter, although his free-lance work has appeared there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_U._Bacon
That makes no sense. Even at the high school level, the normal thing to do is call coaches who have already played your upcoming opponent for advice. If we had information on Michigan obtained from our game and chose to share it - what rule out there says we can’t discuss
Said often enough, you don’t see any coaches bitching about UM because sign stealing is rampant. Not to the same brazen degree, but cheating is cheating.
It does seem wrong for a team to help another in this way. Why do it ?
It does seem wrong for a team to help another in this way. Why do it ?
He’s a Michigan alumni so yes, take that for what it’s worth.
Sure you can share info but to the extent described I'm not so sure.
Putting together list of signals with each other and sharing films with each other on a different opponent, I don't know about that.
It's just like sign stealing not being illegal but to the extent Michigan went it is illegal. Sharing info isn't illegal but to the extent described I don't know about that.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's done somewhat widely but doesn't mean it's allowed.
Just like paying players was done somewhat widely too probably but doesn't mean it was allowed.
No one knows if rules were broken, via the tweet. I just don’t like how Rutgers is now involved, whether they were or weren’t broken. Other media beginning to run with this story
And Michigan and OSU will get stern warnings. Although @Scarlet16E has a point which would get both RU and OSU off the hook.
This has all the makings of just about everything we've seen from Michigan (and their supporters) thus far ..
First: Deny everything
Next: Even if you did do what you were alleged to have done, state that everyone else does it too
Then: Claim that everyone is out to get you and you shouldn't be punished
I guess this is like the "everyone else is cheating in some capacity" but mixed with "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain .. the smoking gun actually lies with these other programs."
First: Deny everything
Next: Even if you did do what you were alleged to have done, state that everyone else does it too
Then: Claim that everyone is out to get you and you shouldn't be punished
I guess this is like the "everyone else is cheating in some capacity" but mixed with "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain .. the smoking gun actually lies with these other programs."
The good thing to all this is you’d think helmet communication should be on tap soon as it should’ve been all along.
Then no one will have an unfair advantage. Just like NIL has removed the unfair advantage of those who were doing it under the table.
The advantages those who were willing to skirt the rules had will be neutralized.
I am of the opinion that if it’s not explicitly identified as remote scouting then there is no smoke or fire. Spirit or effect vs intent of the rule has nothing to do with it. The original rule was set in place to level the playing field for scouting costs so rich programs did not enjoy an advantage from sending their whole staff to a game. Full stop.
I read another article that said sharing details gleaned from your own game is not prohibited since it doesn’t violate the specific rule prohibiting and minimizing travel costs. Any school can tape a game in which they are participating. Of course it will cause a BS scandal with the Rutgers 1000 people and the local rags.
I read another article that said sharing details gleaned from your own game is not prohibited since it doesn’t violate the specific rule prohibiting and minimizing travel costs. Any school can tape a game in which they are participating. Of course it will cause a BS scandal with the Rutgers 1000 people and the local rags.
In personal relationships this is called DARVO.
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender
He didn't have time to write about the Michigan story because he was writing his book, but he has time for this? Come on, sounds like Michigan is puliing out all the stops and reaching out to friends of the program to divert attention.
For what possible reason would we give Purdue defensive signals in a game vs Michigan? Rutgers couldn't have cared less about how many points Purdue lost by.
Love the first post, "So no one thinks it's odd that Michigan and only Michigan has these documents?"
Irrelevant really. The thing that is relevant is whether we violated a rule. If we did then we should be sanctioned or looked at if we didn’t then this is just smoke from U Mich because they know they are busted.
From the article:
Copies of the documents were obtained by SI, with the information partially redacted because the Wolverines still run many of the same plays or use the same signals, a source familiar with Michigan’s play calls said. A source familiar with the contents of the documents verified their authenticity.
The two Michigan signal breakdowns include sections devoted to deciphering the boards held up by staffers with images on them, lengthy lists describing hand signals for running plays, slightly shorter lists for passing plays and separate lists describing signals for play-action passes or bootleg plays. One of the documents also includes a section devoted to signals gathered during a 2022 game against the Wolverines, and both documents include a “2020 Game” heading, followed by a short rundown of signals ostensibly deciphered during a game that year.
But if it's smoke, its working and made you think twice. Even your post questions whether its real or not. Whoever leaked this has already done their job. Did you see the documents, anyone on here could have made them and passed them off as real.
No, my point was asking whether we had a good reason to give them the information is relevant.
What do you mean involvement? They’re just reporting news. That’s their involvement
I figured it was Purdue coach as they described him as former B10 coach. Might be at Louisville with Brohm now. Also again sounds like it's widely done thing so no one thinks of it as wrong/illegal but it doesn't necessarily mean it's allowed. I would guess most don't even know the rules to know for sure but since everyone is doing it, well it must be fine.
From the Athletic article:
The person who sent the documents to Michigan worked for Purdue last season and told the Wolverines that the information came from Rutgers and Ohio State, the university source said. The person who sent the documents, who was granted anonymity to avoid potential repercussions in the profession, told The Athletic on Monday that sharing signals among friends at other programs was quite common.
I can see if they’re fake…why the Michigan leaker would blame OSU….but why would they chose to include Rutgers and Purdue if there’s not much merit to this? Just two weird schools to chose to make something up
Can you think of one? Can anyone on here come up with why we had a vested interest in helping Purdue? I can't think of one in my wildest dreams. Usually, the simple answer is the correct one. Michigan is trying their best to divert attention away from them and make it seem like they're also a victim.
Did you not read the news? Everyone was pumping that Schiano knew and said so in a cryptic way at halftime of the UM game. The media ran with it until Greg said, he didn't. We were then implied to be one of the teams who asked for an investigation. The B1G Championship game(Purdue) was the most recent. It's not so weird once you follow the dots.
Just friends helping friends, nothing sinister. I quoted the part above from the person who leaked it. I figured it might be quite common and sounds like it is. I don't know that it's allowed though but since everyone is doing it, well then it must be allowed. I doubt most coaches really know the rules for sure to know one way or the other. Everyone is just helping their buddies.
From the Athletic article:
The person who sent the documents to Michigan worked for Purdue last season and told the Wolverines that the information came from Rutgers and Ohio State, the university source said. The person who sent the documents, who was granted anonymity to avoid potential repercussions in the profession, told The Athletic on Monday that sharing signals among friends at other programs was quite common.
Please read my post. This guy is not a New York Times reporter and the report does not appear in the New York Times.
Sorry if I’m missing something, but your OP has a title implying the NYTimes broke this, but then just quoted a random guy’s tweet.
Apologies for the tittle. The guy is a sports business writer who has appeared and does appear in the times, but as a freelance writer. So the newspaper itself didn’t break it..my bad. Title had been edited
Thread title has been updated. Seems the guy is a freelance writer and not a staff writer fir the times. My bad
"Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller reportedly worried his players would be injured because Michigan players knew where they would be going."
So this only applies if the signals are on a cell phone video, not if they are giving by cell phone call?
But the random guy once was on the NYT best sellers list. So he thinks it was reported by the NYT. Crazy!
yup my mistake. Nothing in NYTimes but the athletic (which is basically The NY Times sports), ESPN and yahoo and SI now reporting it too.