31 states have similar laws. What separates NC HB2 from the others is the lawsuit sector and the bathroom law.
One is iffy and the other is common sense.
NCAA Tourney pulled from Greensboro
- Thread starter Laettner
- Start date
- Status
One is iffy and the other is common sense.
Other states' similar laws were not in direct response to a local ordinance and do not specify a complete ban on any local anti-discrimination ordinances. The NC GOP has touted our law as a trailblazing example for others to follow. Blaming Charlotte or complaining that we're getting picked on doesn't jibe with that.
Are you of the opinion, then, that we have all civil rights matters settled? Weren't you of the same opinion before marriage equality was determined?
What's the last civil right claim in America that failed and then went away? I can't think of any. Ever. Has the opposition to those claims ever acknowledged that it was a civil rights issue and continued to oppose it?
What you've mentioned as potential next ones are outrageous, and attempts to insinuate that they are connected via slippery slope to this issue are disingenuous.
I informed you, and correctly, that that word is a slur. I gave you and pisgah the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know that. I don't expect an apology, and I won't be issuing one.
Charlotte stood to lose a billion w/o their ordinance. They needed it to compete for events with other cities. NC is the only state in the country that has responded like this to any local ordinance. You don't get to brag about that as the NC GOP has, then turn around and blame Charlotte with any credibility.
31 with the same law that's a FACT ours was in response to Charlotte because if not the city of Charlotte would allow men in women's locker rooms at school another FACT. It would of allowed a male volleyball or basketball coach to walk straight in the showers with his ladies if he chose to and NOBODY could of stopped it FACT. Stop giving me the liberal garbage when you aren't here and don't know what's actually going on. I'm sick of liberal out of staters coming in and trying to tell us how to do things. Ruin your state not ours
I live in Charlotte & work Uptown.
Please correct me if I am wrong but my interpretation of Mayor Robert's law is that a male Transgender who "identifies" as a woman has the right to use a woman's restroom. Random people cannot just go into any bathroom they choose. That is the way I view the Charlotte law.
That's fine and dandy but would it not be discrimination if I said "I'm a woman" and they stopped me? If someone is truly this way they need medical attention. A true transgender has an actual mental issue. My problem is this opens the door wide open for every dick, tom, and Harry to be a woman anytime they wanna be a perv. You can't stop it when it starts that way.
You have been corrected several times but keep repeating the same incorrect info. Eventually people stop thinking you just didn't know and start thinking worse things. Your language lost any sense of civility pages ago, as well.
Perhaps you were talking more to someone else who is out of state. I've been in Durham for 20, NC for 36.
That hasn't happened anywhere else where transgenders are allowed to use the appropriate restroom. You are seeking to oppress others' rights based on a fear that has no evidence to back it up.
Thanks Dattier. I'm trying to understand this issue from both sides instead of just spouting incorrect assumptions.
I'm a Republican, voted for McCrory and worked with him at Duke Energy 12 years ago. I just don't agree with his path on HB2.
Every now and then a thread runs it's course. When it gets to the point when no one is getting anywhere maybe it's time to just stop posting on it and go on to something else and a topic we all can support and that's Duke athletics and just have fun poking fun at our rival . OFC
Yeah, with so many in his own party disagreeing with him on this, it's perplexing that he hasn't checked himself and changed course. I'm no fan, but I've seen some pleasantly surprising things that make me think he really could have been an across-the-aisle Republican in another era. Ultimately, I suppose someone with as much clout as the Governor has to define his own era, not just hope for the right one to fall in his lap.
Yes. It is very shameful of the NCAA to pander to a political stance. I am pretty livid about it.
Yes because playing in front of a crap load of UNC loyals has always given us a home court advantage in NC.
Exactly what I said on the CBB when a Wisconsin fan posted a thread saying that it was going to hurt Duke. This affects unc more.
As heated and fact checked as this conversation has been (and wildly entertaining for all of the wrong reasons) I am going to have to say chill out with certain things. This topic would normally be in the Lounge and at one point I did think about moving it to the Lounge topic I created and pinned up top, which is where it should be. So I'm fine with the debate for now, but there are some terms and phrasing being used that is a a little unsavory and I'm warning you now it will stop.
I'm not putting my hat into this conversation at all, and my reasoning for wanting it to stop has nothing to do with my opinion (which is honestly unformed as of yet), but I will not tolerate any of the terms being used about transgender people and the insinuation that they are the dregs of society. Your opinion can be put across clearly without that and you have done so for the most part.
I'm also not going to tolerate the personal attacks being thrown about by both sides of this argument either. Seriously, cut the s---. You all can debate and have your day, but STOP going at each other's throats with this. It goes nowhere and it really ruins what at times is an intelligent topic.
So to sum up, no derogatory terms and no more personal attacks. I mean that. Unlike the rest of this thread, that part is not up for debate.
Continue...
I'm not putting my hat into this conversation at all, and my reasoning for wanting it to stop has nothing to do with my opinion (which is honestly unformed as of yet), but I will not tolerate any of the terms being used about transgender people and the insinuation that they are the dregs of society. Your opinion can be put across clearly without that and you have done so for the most part.
I'm also not going to tolerate the personal attacks being thrown about by both sides of this argument either. Seriously, cut the s---. You all can debate and have your day, but STOP going at each other's throats with this. It goes nowhere and it really ruins what at times is an intelligent topic.
So to sum up, no derogatory terms and no more personal attacks. I mean that. Unlike the rest of this thread, that part is not up for debate.
Continue...
Ha-ha the funny thing is I never knew that word was considered a slur until today. I always thought it was just short for it like you say cop for policeman so chill on the "dreg of society" stuff. Nobody said that they were that either
As for datt go ahead and hold your belief that's fine but the facts that I layed out and that others have as well are what OUR beliefs and 30 some other state legislatures is as well.
As for datt go ahead and hold your belief that's fine but the facts that I layed out and that others have as well are what OUR beliefs and 30 some other state legislatures is as well.
Apparently datt gets to decide what is considered a slur around here.
The quote dregs of society" may not have been used directly, but there is plenty of implication. No need to explain. I laid out the ground rules FOR BOTH SIDES. If you can't make your case under those two simple stipulations, then there's no point really.
Again not for debate. This is my call not his. You have a problem with my choice, I will be happy to talk to you in a private message. I have no dog in this hunt, I'm just trying to maintain some civility.
I will say this. My stance on this issue has little to do with transgenders. They have been going to the men's and women's room long before this was an issue and continue to do so. But I am in agreement with the gov. that this could possibly open doors for more sinister happenings. Even if it's miniscule it's still a chance. As a father of 9 and 11 y/o girls it does worry me. I also am in strong disagreement that a city can force a private owned business to open its facilities to whomever or face lawsuits. Atleast with HB2 private owned businesses have a choice.
I recognize the possibility, but there've been laws like Charlotte's all over the country as fast back as 1995 in some places, and the only documented incident of a man abusing it to get into a women's room was a man in Seattle who was protesting that law. Contrary to some conservative rhetoric, he was addressed and stopped.
Yeah, that's what I thought about that abbreviation until a few months ago when I learned otherwise. Like I said, I was informing, not creating.
You did not lay out any facts. You repeated the hypothesis that men could just claim to be women and waltz right into some rooms with no recourse. You also claimed that was the intent, even, of Charlotte's ordinance.
Nationwide, the only documented incident of this is a man protesting Seattle's law. Look it up. Provide something --anything -- other than your hypothetical talking point.
A man in a dress could sneak into a women's room at any point, regardless of any law. If he pees and leaves, you'd never know. If he peeps or otherwise commits any kind of illegal intrusion on someone else, that has always been and always will be illegal, whether he's in the women's restroom or the men's restroom.
Further, transwomen aren't just randomly deciding to go into women's rooms. They live their entire lives as women. They undergo hormone treatment. The only thing male about them is their genitalia. And they just have to pee, just like lesbians in women's rooms.
HB2 doesn't do anything except create a false sense of security while ostracizing a marginalized group further and giving NC a really bad name.
Last edited:
While I don't think anyone here is seeking to oppress, the rest of your sentiment is accurate.
This has become a classic two side debate because of bipolar perspectives. There is a lot of digging in of heels here. There's no need to try and categorize as PC liberal vs. paranoid conservative. Stick to the facts. The sports events leaving has nothing to do with debating the law's merits.
I've read through all the comments here, and this is my favorite take so far. I do think there will be people that try to abuse the freedom, but also think those types will act badly anyway.
I'm not sure the law was completely necessary, but then again, I can imagine someone who is transgender being refused access to a bathroom by a bully at work. This transgender person would need some legal protection. Perhaps there are already laws on the books to protect them though. I feel like HB2 is too broad sweeping and creates other problematic scenarios.
Last edited:
I am a genetics researcher. Transgendered people aren't mentally ill. Biologically speaking, gender is not black and white. Let's not destroy all gender norms, but let's be reasonable.
You don't believe that someone born in a male body with all male parts but believes they are a woman is a mental issue?? Then how would they think that..
I pretty much agree. But it's been politicized and depending on which side of the fence you are on, you are going to see it differently. But in the end, what you, I or anyone else believes isn't going to change anyone's mind by continuing this conversation.
What bothers me mostly about this is that even if you are against the bill, you should acknowledge that the NCAA should have stayed out of it. But that's just this guy's opinion.
I can't believe that it's 2016 and with all the problems in this country and around the world, people are arguing and wanting to let boys and men use the same bathroom as their mothers, wives, sisters and daughters. I know there is more to the bill but this is the only thing people seem to be talking about. What has happened to common sense?
There are sexually dimorphic aspects of the brain, internal organs and hormone levels too. An outwardly male body doesn't neccessarily mean that person lacks all feminine traits. It's more complicated than that.
There are murderers and pedophiles that have observable brain damage that causes those urges. We as a society still have to protect ourselves from these folks, but we don't have to be completely dispassionate to their condition. Sometimes it really isn't in their control. Do you think gay people just choose that lifestyle to be different? LBGT folks know it would be "easier" to live and work as straight, but one can only lie to one's self so long.
All that said, let's not rip down the gender signs on bathrooms. Let's just make it illegal to restrict access to reasonable accommodations for those who legitimately need them.
Very well said. It would behoove some in this thread to listen to a geneticist like you on this issue.
You're right. My phrasing does impugn intent, and that wasn't what I meant to do. I do think that is the outcome of those efforts, but I acknowledge that that's not consciously what most HB2 proponents are doing.
- Status