Need some personal advice

[Shamoan]

I am a father of a 3 year old and another kid due in July. As some of you may know, I am in grad school. I found out a few days ago that I will have to repeat an entire year of grad school which will cost me $20,000 and an entire year of my life just to be able to advance in the program. All of this is centered around a 2 hour Lab course in which a professor made a stipulation in her syllabus that, regardless of what you made in the course, if you did not achieve a 69.5 on the final, you would automatically fail the course. Based on my circumstances, that would force me to repeat the entire year. I went into the final exam with a 85 (which is a B). Because the final is computer based, I had to take it on my laptop with their approved exam software. I was having issues with my laptop that caused me to get behind on the pace of the exam (we were only allotted an hour and 15 minutes for, essentially, a 120 question exam). Long story short, I made a 66.3% on the final and the professor subsequently failed me despite me earning a 76 (a C in her syllabus) in the course. I walked into the final (that counts 21% of my grade) with a B and walked out with an F. At this point, my family is $80,000 in debt as a result of me going back to school and we are surviving on the income of my wife.

My family and I are at a crossroads...to continue on with zero guarantees other than additional tens of thousands of dollars of more debt in a program I feel like I cannot trust to make logical decisions or try to use the second degree that I have earned and join the workforce to pay off the mountain of debt we have accumulated. My earnings potential with completing the coursework in the grad program would double if I complete the program, however, I no longer feel like I can trust the program in which I am currently enrolled...with this program, if it is not one thing, it is another and the only consistency this particular program has shown is an anti-student stance where most of their academic policies. I busted my *** all year long to maintain that grade and quicker than you can blink, it was ripped away....

Im pretty disgusted with the whole thing at this point. what say ye?

 

[dawgstudent]

Did you talk to the teacher or anyone above her? That doesn't even seem fair.

 

[GTAdawg]

If you don't believe you can make any headway with the professor, than your only other option is to take it to the Dean. However, if you knew the potential circumstances going into the final you may not get shown any love. Don't mean to be harsh, just letting you know what to expect. I don't agree with the professor's policy, but they are given nearly total freedom to grade as they wish.

That's got to really suck though. I hope that your final grade can be reversed.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I am a father of a 3 year old and another kid due in July. As some of you may know, I am in grad school. I found out a few days ago that I will have to repeat an entire year of grad school which will cost me $20,000 and an entire year of my life just to be able to advance in the program. All of this is centered around a 2 hour Lab course in which a professor made a stipulation in her syllabus that, regardless of what you made in the course, if you did not achieve a 69.5 on the final, you would automatically fail the course. Based on my circumstances, that would force me to repeat the entire year. I went into the final exam with a 85 (which is a B). Because the final is computer based, I had to take it on my laptop with their approved exam software. I was having issues with my laptop that caused me to get behind on the pace of the exam (we were only allotted an hour and 15 minutes for, essentially, a 120 question exam). Long story short, I made a 66.3% on the final and the professor subsequently failed me despite me earning a 76 (a C in her syllabus) in the course. I walked into the final (that counts 21% of my grade) with a B and walked out with an F. At this point, my family is $80,000 in debt as a result of me going back to school and we are surviving on the income of my wife.

My family and I are at a crossroads...to continue on with zero guarantees other than additional tens of thousands of dollars of more debt in a program I feel like I cannot trust to make logical decisions or try to use the second degree that I have earned and join the workforce to pay off the mountain of debt we have accumulated. My earnings potential with completing the coursework in the grad program would double if I complete the program, however, I no longer feel like I can trust the program in which I am currently enrolled...with this program, if it is not one thing, it is another and the only consistency this particular program has shown is an anti-student stance where most of their academic policies. I busted my *** all year long to maintain that grade and quicker than you can blink, it was ripped away....

Im pretty disgusted with the whole thing at this point. what say ye?

With your circumstances and a kid on the way, I would fight that **** as hard and as long as possible. I don't care if it's something in her syllabus, it's garbage. Fight it.

 

[hydrodawg]

Go see the Dean

Start with the dean of the college then the university dean of students (is there a graduate student dean?). They can get things done but I hope your technical problems weren't the result of you forgetting the install the software due to a drunken stupor the night before.

I am a father of a 3 year old and another kid due in July. As some of you may know, I am in grad school. I found out a few days ago that I will have to repeat an entire year of grad school which will cost me $20,000 and an entire year of my life just to be able to advance in the program. All of this is centered around a 2 hour Lab course in which a professor made a stipulation in her syllabus that, regardless of what you made in the course, if you did not achieve a 69.5 on the final, you would automatically fail the course. Based on my circumstances, that would force me to repeat the entire year. I went into the final exam with a 85 (which is a B). Because the final is computer based, I had to take it on my laptop with their approved exam software. I was having issues with my laptop that caused me to get behind on the pace of the exam (we were only allotted an hour and 15 minutes for, essentially, a 120 question exam). Long story short, I made a 66.3% on the final and the professor subsequently failed me despite me earning a 76 (a C in her syllabus) in the course. I walked into the final (that counts 21% of my grade) with a B and walked out with an F. At this point, my family is $80,000 in debt as a result of me going back to school and we are surviving on the income of my wife.

My family and I are at a crossroads...to continue on with zero guarantees other than additional tens of thousands of dollars of more debt in a program I feel like I cannot trust to make logical decisions or try to use the second degree that I have earned and join the workforce to pay off the mountain of debt we have accumulated. My earnings potential with completing the coursework in the grad program would double if I complete the program, however, I no longer feel like I can trust the program in which I am currently enrolled...with this program, if it is not one thing, it is another and the only consistency this particular program has shown is an anti-student stance where most of their academic policies. I busted my *** all year long to maintain that grade and quicker than you can blink, it was ripped away....

Im pretty disgusted with the whole thing at this point. what say ye?

 

[mjh94]

I believe I would set up a meeting with the Dean of that particular college/department. If that doesn't work, see if you can meet with the Provost. I would go into the meeting with some artillery.. something like you "are here to discuss the University's goals of facilitating the success or students... yada yada yada."

 

[FQDawg]

There's a few steps you can take...

I've worked in Student Affairs in the past and I would recommend a few steps.

First, talk with the professor. Don't be angry or upset but just explain your circumstances. If you make the conversation adversarial, she's likely to dig her heels in. Emphasize that you think your performance on the final was affected by the fact that you were having problems with your laptop. Also mention that even with the grade in the final you feel that your work during the entirety of the semester deserves a passing grade. If she won't change your grade to passing, ask if you can re-take the final or do some sort of extra work that would raise your grade to passing.

If that doesn't work, I would ask to meet with the Dean for your particular program. Again, don't make it adversarial - just explain your situation. Obviously all situations are different but in my experience, the Dean is likely to side with the professor.

If working with the professor or dean doesn't work, you can try escalating the situation to the school's department of Student Affairs. They are set up to handle situations like this. But I would try to go through "proper channels" first, if possible.

 

[Dawghouse]

Because the final is computer based, I had to take it on my laptop with their approved exam software. I was having issues with my laptop that caused me to get behind on the pace of the exam (we were only allotted an hour and 15 minutes for, essentially, a 120 question exam).

ETA: start with the teacher. My assumption was that you have already exhausted all discussions with teacher, if not, do that. If you start over their head you're toast.

I'd go to the Dean and use this as the basis for a)getting to retake the computer based exam or b) getting an exemption on the "if you did not achieve a 69.5 on the final, you would automatically fail the course"

That being said, if you were given the opportunity to install and test the software before the day of the exam and you didn't check to make sure it was installed/working properly ahead of time you might be screwed on this front.

 

[Dawghouse]

I've worked in Student Affairs in the past and I would recommend a few steps.

First, talk with the professor. Don't be angry or upset but just explain your circumstances. If you make the conversation adversarial, she's likely to dig her heels in. Emphasize that you think your performance on the final was affected by the fact that you were having problems with your laptop. Also mention that even with the grade in the final you feel that your work during the entirety of the semester deserves a passing grade. If she won't change your grade to passing, ask if you can re-take the final or do some sort of extra work that would raise your grade to passing.

If that doesn't work, I would ask to meet with the Dean for your particular program. Again, don't make it adversarial - just explain your situation. Obviously all situations are different but in my experience, the Dean is likely to side with the professor.

If working with the professor or dean doesn't work, you can try escalating the situation to the school's department of Student Affairs. They are set up to handle situations like this. But I would try to go through "proper channels" first, if possible.

+1

 

[futaba.79]

have you dscussed your issue with the professor?

that's where you start. Then you work your way up. Most schools have a structured grade appeal process. Use the process.

If I knew more, I could give you much better advice. Feel free to pm.

 

[Dawghouse]

Because the final is computer based, I had to take it on my laptop with their approved exam software. I was having issues with my laptop that caused me to get behind on the pace of the exam (we were only allotted an hour and 15 minutes for, essentially, a 120 question exam).

Side story. I was taking a final exam in Rodney Pearson's class (I think it was Java programming) and one part of the exam was to use the command line to print the output of a small program that we had to write. I tried repeatedly to make it work and started second guessing my commands. I never could get it to print so I ended up making a grade on the final that dropped me from an A to B.

Pissed off, I asked Dr Pearson afterwards if he could help me out. Turns out, the way it was setup, the printing was sent as a temporary file to the personal storage each student account had on the network and mine was full. Why was it full you ask? A day earlier my step mom had sent me a gigantic image of a woman kicking a man in the balls with balls fully exposed mind you. Dr Pearson never treated me the same after that discovery and I still didn't get an A.

Sorry for the hijack but that story popped in my head.

 

[futaba.79]

Student Affairs will not intervene.............

in an academic matter. This can only be resolved through Academic Affairs.

 

[SwampDawg]

Another side story: Friend of mine was a senior at MSU, majoring in Industrial Management. On a quiz, or on a case study, I forget which, he quoted (without footnoting) a principle of management that was pounded into our heads over and over in every management class we took. He was taking this course under the department head, who flunked him for the course and kicked him out of the school of management. For plagarism.

 

[Dash Riprock.sixpack]

If it makes you feel any better I'd kill to be 20something and in grad school with a couple of kids. This will all work out and you will be a better person for it. No one is sick or hurt; it's just money. I've made a lot and made a little, and i wasn't any happier making a lot that i was making a little. I'm in my 50's with three kids and i have learned the hard way it's all about your relationship with family, friend and the Lord, and everything else is gray noise in the background.

 

[57stratdawg]

Tough spot to be in. My best advice is not to wait if you're going to fight it. If you found out you failed the final today, I'd go talk to the teacher this afternoon and try to set up an appointment with the Dean tomorrow morning.

Did you express any concerns with using your laptop to the teacher? If so, I would convey them.
What were your thoughts/processes immediately after the final ended?

Again, I would just try to be as prompt as you can be. Don't wait a couple days or weeks.

 

[RebelAlumnus]

A lot of grad schools these days make you sign a syllabus stating that you understand and agree to everything in it. If he did this, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[AHSDawg]

This^^^ and do it NOW with the teacher. Don't go above their head until you have to. Even then, if they dig in, you are screwed. I had a very small issue with a graduate school program that declined me but the computer system never declined me. So, I was in but not 'in'. They finally found out and never had one blink of understanding that it wasn't my problem the graduate school computer system made an error. I ran it all the way up the flagpole to no avail. Completely screwed over their system making an error.

You best chance of success is getting the teacher to fix or work with you. After that, your odds of success are less than 1%. So many people on that campus do not function the way the real world does.

 

[drt7891]

This. People kill their cause right out of the gate either because they are upset and in a frizz when they talk to someone, or they neglect the proper channels. This is excellent advice... I'd suggest talking face to face calmly with your teacher and explain your situation. If you can't gain any traction, then go to the dean.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

I received my MBA from Mississippi College and they are different than MSU

I was pleasantly surprised by how I was treated at MC compared to MSU. I don't know if it is because MSU has gotten so many students but most people treat you like a number there now.

MC would actually work with you.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Yep, start at the bottom of the ladder. Lay your circumstances out and ask if there are any options. If the prof says no, don't blow up... just go up the ladder.

 

[oldawg]

This. People kill their cause right out of the gate either because they are upset and in a frizz when they talk to someone, or they neglect the proper channels. This is excellent advice... I'd suggest talking face to face calmly with your teacher and explain your situation. If you can't gain any traction, then go to the dean.

Excellent advice here and from others. You'll likely fail if you go over the teacher's head before you've done everything you can with him/her. Then go a step at a time upwards until you're stopped. Follow the chain of command. This is your best chance. Had a young friend who didn't do it this way and went to the Dean first. Not a good result.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

A professor's perspective:

I'm dealing with these kinds of things right now, as it is finals week. Most of us are not ********. On the other hand, if a professor is worth a ****, he hates those colleagues that are willing to bend to every student that has a decent rack or threatens trouble if his or her grade isn't tweaked, just because. For me, I look out at my classroom and I know that there are students there who are making sacrifices to be sitting in front of me - some of them are giving up time with family, are in physical or emotional pain, are neglecting other things that need doing, because they are committed. If I give student X a break, what does that say about student Y, who did make the effort?

So your goal should be to convince that professor that she can give you a break, while at the same time respecting the efforts of the other students in the class. Someone noted that you might claim that the final exam doesn't reflect your efforts or preparation, it reflects a computer problem (that get's at the fairness issue). Ask if she would be willing to prepare an alternative final - an essay for example. That would remove some of the issue of you having more time to prepare than the other students. If that doesn't fly, see if she is willing to offer you the course as an independent study during the summer. She wouldn't need to do much, as you have already taken the exam, you would get an F this semester but replace it with the summer grade, which would essentially be taking the exam again. She would have maintained her principles, while still giving you a break, and she might pick up a few hundred bucks for the effort.

But, talk to her FIRST, and as others have said, don't make it a sob story. I have classes full of people with legitimate issues that somehow managed to pass my course.

 

[mstateglfr]

You are thinking about leaving?!?!

"Don't you say that. Don't you ever say that. Stay here. Stay here as long as you can. For the love of God, cherish it. You have to cherish it."- Billy Madison

Appeal the grade. Appeal it until you have talked to everyone possible. Sit outside the Prez's house if needed.
Then either you win or you take the class over.

Debt sucks, but being able to make 2x as much with that degree will VERY quickly pay for that debt and much faster than leaving without that degree. 1 extra year and $20K more in debt but double your salary and paying off those loans faster? Come on, that shouldn't even be a debate.
If you can make 2x as much, then for the first year live off the salary you would have made without the degree and put the other half of your actual salary towards the extra year's debt. And by that I mean you should have that extra year paid off in 6 or so months.

You had kids when you were young- you will not have a lot of money for the next 2 decades. Just accept it as your reality, go an extra year in debt, pay that extra year off in a handful of months, and let that 2x salary work in your favor.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Agreed.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

+1

 

[jakldawg]

This is probably the best advice so far.



(and just to throw more water on a particularly bad idea I keep seeing- do NOT start with the Dean/Provost/Dept. Head and work your way down. Start with the professor and maybe at the same time the Graduate Chair of that particular department.)

 

[FQDawg]

This may be helpful...

in an academic matter. This can only be resolved through Academic Affairs.

At the schools where I've worked, Student Affairs would help students with academic issues (but the first question was always "have you tried to work it out with your professor?"). But in the original poster's case, the above advice may be better advice... there may be an Academic Affairs department to consult with or even the Provost.

But, again, I'd only go to that level if you can't get anywhere with the professor or dean.

 

[KurtRambis4]

If

you cannot argue your way to getting a different grade/second chance, then look at getting someone to pay for your schooling (e.g. military or co-op).

 

[Shamoan]

yes. I have plead with her and she is totally unsympathetic. Its lunacy. I meet with the associate dean tomorrow, but based on how things are looking, they are going to stick to their guns and abide by the syllabus.

the kicker is that there was a significant curve on the exam. prior to the curve, over 20 students would have failed based on the 70% rule, however, when it became apparent that that was too high a number to fail, they initiated a "line item analysis" in which dozens of perfectly good questions were thrown out in order to curve the grade and adjust the number of those that would fail. its so frustrating, but its not looking good. I guarantee that I have a better average than some of the 100+ other students, yet, because my grade on the final was 3 points lower, I will be the one forced to repeat while they advance in the program.

in academia, logic is at a premium and its going to cost me and my struggling family dearly.

 

[Shamoan]

I didnt sign anything.

the rule was enacted because last year, the professor felt like students were blowing her final off. (in my program, all of our finals are cumulative and occur over only a one week period). in past years, students would blow off her final in order to focus on one of the more important exams. This chick took that personally, and enacted this idiotic policy to force students to take her exam seriously without considering the repercussions of doing so.

 

[Shamoan]

if it was as simple as that, i would have no issue with it, however, over 20 students failed the final...per the instructor of the course. when it became apparent that that was too many students to fail, a curve was initiated and I was on the outside looking in along with a few other students. essentially, the school is covering their *** by adjusting the grades to allow others that would have otherwise failed to pass.

the dean could care less unfortunately. A student last semester received a 68.5 on the final and was subsequently failed with everything upheld. per the student, the dean wouldnt even sit with him to discuss the situation. worst part about that is that student didnt receive the benefit of ANY curve whatsoever. at this point, they are using semantics to avoid admitting guilt and doing everything they can to deffer doing the right thing.

 

[Shamoan]

absolutely not....i have busted my *** all year long as witnessed by my late-night study break posts at 3 and 4 am. I have absolutely spilled my guts working to get this far.

 

[Shamoan]

thanks for the advice, but I have dealt with the professor and they are as un-empathetic as one could possibly imagine and that cannot be stressed enough. I did so in a way that was VERY respectful but she just didn't give a damn....after all, that would require her renouncing her brand new policy and admitting that it was wrong. This policy has claimed 4 people in our class already.

word on the street is that this policy will be nixed for the course next semester, but rest assured, they are going to hold my feet to the fire with little remorse.

 

[FQDawg]

I would use this argument when meeting with the associate dean...

They basically changed the rules after the game had been played... to use a sports metaphor. If they were willing to change things to allow other students to pass, they should be willing to work with you to pass, especially given that your overall average would otherwise be a passing grade.

 

[Shamoan]

It was not a software related issue. I suppose that I made it appear that way. It was more of a technical issue with my laptop.

there are 2 course administrators and neither were willing to entertain rescinding the asinine stipulation. im pretty bitter about the whole point, but i assure you that my tone in dealing with them has been one of utmost respect. simply put, they dont care.

 

[dawgstudent]

Are you at liberty to say where you are going to school or for what you are getting your degree?

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

So, you got the benefit of a "significant curve" and still finished with a 66? Or did the curve not apply to questions you missed?

 

[oldawg]

thanks for the advice, but I have dealt with the professor and they are as un-empathetic as one could possibly imagine and that cannot be stressed enough. I did so in a way that was VERY respectful but she just didn't give a damn....after all, that would require her renouncing her brand new policy and admitting that it was wrong. This policy has claimed 4 people in our class already.

word on the street is that this policy will be nixed for the course next semester, but rest assured, they are going to hold my feet to the fire with little remorse.

If you want to pursue this, and I would if I were you, I would take the next step and talk to the department head. You have to go up the chain and hopefully someone at some level will help you. Don't give up and don't take shortcuts. Persistence can help you in grad school, but don't threaten or lose your cool.

 

[Shamoan]

try 30 something. sadly, i have 2 degrees and have spent 9 years of my life in college with 2 more to go....well, prior to this monumental setback.

i do however find solace in the fact that I will be the father of two fine young boys who I adore. without them, i would be going postal. thats kind of why this hurts so bad...this was all for them and to repay my wife who knows nothing but sacrifice for me to be in this position.

 

[Shamoan]

I havent been given access to the exam, and doubt I will at this point. me telling you, not looking for sympathy or anything else, i had technical difficulty with my laptop.

the rub is when a person that did almost as bad as I did is allowed to pass based on an arbitrary curve. the school enacted the curve to cover their ***, as had they enforced it as it was stipulated in the syllabus, 20+ other students would have failed as well. additionally, the previous semester, someone failed 1 point shy of the minimum grade without the benefit of ANY curve whatsoever. no matter how you look at it, the stipulation has been violated.

it is of little consequence, as the type of program i am in is notoriously unforgiving and side against students at every possible chance. Essentially, the administrators of the school have ZERO oversight of the professors. instead, the department committees run everything with little to no direction form the school. I havent seen our associate dean (our link to the administrative wing of the school) all YEAR long. they are ghosts of the school and are only concerned with admittance and end of the semester issues such as these. how often in your experience does a committee of professors regulate one of their own? rarely, if ever....and this particular school has suffered as a result of this. Its reputation amongst established and well-respected professionals is one that the school is totally out of control and that reputation has been this way for some time now. its a recipe for disaster and because they are the only program in the state, they are free to do as they see fit with little fear of losing students. its a damn academic monopoly and their opinion is that if you dont like it, kindly remove yourself from the program...except, in my case, i have zero options.