Nissan
- Thread starter Dawg1969
- Start date
Not really. There are several areas of the state that have little to no economic ties to Jackson. The only ties are political.
Not good news for the Canton, MS Plant. They will shut it down in a heartbeat. The Brand makes junk vehicles, especially those in the last 10 years. The Titan was canned, and took that production away late last year. The big talk was about retooling the plant for Electric vehicles, but the market has spoken and the demand isn't there. Brand wise, sales are down 30% YoY. Honda is correct in their approach to calling for significant cuts and restructuring. They are hemorrhaging.
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You have no idea what you’re talking about. Mississippi needs a good metro area and Tupelo won’t cut it. Neither will Natchez Trace National Park.
Should not have got rid of Datsun Brand....................
You jest, but had they focused more on the small truck market instead of going after full size truck market, they’re likely better off.
First year that F150 wasn't #1. Toyota RAV4 took the top spot.
The article mentions an E-Power vehicle, which uses a regular combustion engine to charge an electric motor. For some reason and at first blush, that doesn't seem reasonable - you still get the pollution of a gas engine and its weight and servicing needs, while also having a bunch of weight for the electric battery. Maybe it's a smaller ICE and a smaller battery? It's not a hybrid since the engine does nothing but charge the battery.
I stand by my statement. There are places in the state that have very few if any ties to Jackson other than state government. It’s not just up here either.
Looks like Nissan is going to try and keep its' U.S. plants open but probably at reduced production. I retired from Nissan a few years ago and parts of the plant are way ahead of Smyrna. The Stamping dept. at Canton is way more efficient than Smyrna. Canton even stamps out a lot of parts for Smyrna and the plant near St. Petersburg, Rus, so that part may survive. I think Canton and Smyrna both survive but at much reduced capacity and fewer employees. Nissan also has an engine manufacturing plant in Decherd, TN. Nissan spent Hundreds of millions upgrading their machine tools there and have contracts to make engines for Mercedes and Kia (or maybe Hyundai) so they may survive.
Shirley not! The French would never have to be bailed out of a bad situation**
Or it would be awesome as a Dollar General distribution warehouse since there are dozens and dozens of stores within a 70 mile circle. Hell they could build a few on just that site
Automotive in general has razor thin margins on the manufacturing side. All the money is made by the dealerships, who are totally separate, private entities. Go look at your nearest index fund and see how much Ford, GM, or Toyota you find in there. Won’t be much. Their stocks do well to clear 4-5% return any given year, due to the high cost of doing business.
Say all that to say, those revenue numbers mean nothing, as their costs are absolutely just as high (or in Nissan’s case, likely higher).
Not likely that anyone picks it up at all. You don’t know automotive all that well if you think those plants and assets are things that some competitor will just waltz in and start using.
I’m not so sure about that. GM had a gross profit margin of about 13% and EBITDA of $21 billion in FY24. Not exactly what I’d call razor margins. Ford is a littler tighter with a 9% GPM. Toyota is around 20% GPM. Every dealership I’ve ever seen can very easily lose money on selling a new car. They make money on rebates from the dealership and service department largely.
Nissan is obviously a different story but the point is they still have significant revenue, which means they clearly still have some viable products in the market that if someone can figure out the cost structure the company can survive. No idea if that happens or not.
From one source, see below. Automotive has the lowest overall profit margin of sny sector. 10-13% is absolutely razor-thin. Think about just any small business where you’ve had contract work done. 20% OHP is pretty much the bare minimum you’re going to pay. That’s a low end profit margin in just about any industry except automotive.
And keep in mind, that’s the auto industry as a whole, globally. If you isolate it to just the US, where labor costs are far higher, that margin is even lower. That’s all that really matters as far as Canton is concerned. Why do you think all the big OEM’s are continuing to move more new plants to Mexico?
ETA: In regards to your comment about dealerships, again, that’s irrelevant. Totally separate entities (unless you’re talking about Tesla or similar start-ups like that). OEM sells vehicle to regional sales division. Regional sales division sells to individual dealerships for X. Dealership sells vehicle to end user for X + Y. Whatever Y is, it ALL goes to the individual dealership. None of that is ever reflected on the balance sheet of the OEM company (again, unless your Tesla). Manufacturer gets its profit baked in on the front end before vehicle ever reaches dealer. That’s the model for the world’s largest single auto market out of developed countries - the United States. Things like rebates are even offered by OEM sometimes to clear out old inventory before major model changes, and to compensate dealers for lost profit, although dealers have some autonomy to do that on their own, as well.
Industry Benchmarks of Gross, Net and Operating Profit Margins - Vena
Discover the highest (banking) and lowest (auto & truck) average profit margins by industry. Learn how gross, net and operating profit margins impact business.
www.venasolutions.com
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Don't argue with him. He prides himself on finding idiotic 'factual' statements like that one and his Joe Moorhead "I was as good as the guy before me and better than the two after me" BS and then just trolling the hell out of everyone. Ignore him and he disappears.
Unfortunately there's a lot of Mississippians just like him who only see their own bubble.
We are not in the Jackson economic sphere at all. Somehow people in the Jackson orbit can never seem to understand this. The main reason is distance and transportation. For years the rest of the state didn't give a hoot about the NE part of the state. Our connection to Jackson was the dang Trace. We didn't get a four-lane connection till 25 was completed. Our railroads go to Memphis and to Alabama. Historically we were connected to Memphis and Birmingham by road and rail. The rest of Mississippi, including Jackson, was perfectly content with that. Now all of a sudden, we are supposed to build up the Jackson Metro because it's good for us? Why? It wouldn't affect us at all. We are still oriented toward Memphis & Birmingham, with much better road connections. We have better road connectors to Huntsville than we do Jackson. I go to Nashville more than I do to Jackson. The only connection at all to Jackson is state government. Even for healthcare, if it can't be handled in Tupelo it goes to UT in Memphis or UAB in Birmingham. They are both closer than Jackson.
You miss the point entirely. And again, you only care about your own bubble. That's your problem. It's pretty obvious at your anger bubbling through your post.
Nobody gives a shlt if you go to Jackson. Jackson isn't really linked to the Coast that well either. But we all need Jackson to be better for the STATE, which mainly benefits MISSISSIPPI STATE, which is what we all care about and the link we all have together. It's the reason I also want Tupelo, Meridian, and every other town.......they are inside Mississippi's borders.
But you are happy being lil ole moo and squabbling with Ole Miss over scraps. There are some of us that think bigger. This moronic state has been fighting with itself for 200 years and can't seem to grasp the damage it causes. I'll even say your point about transportation is a good one, as this state is certainly split in 3 groups, north, central and the coast, obviously all with different alliances to other places besides their own state.
I am now going to take my own advice from 2 posts ago.
Of course there is anger, but it's residual now. The red headed step child has moved on. I get your point. I just don't give a hoot about it. The metro should have been thinking bigger than itself years ago. Nobody up here cares, or even thinks, about it now.
True, the Soros regimes would have caused this and many others to close down. Look at the number of businesses that have gone under during the last 4 years.
Nissan has 3 plants in Mexico. Tariffs would be a major problem for a company already struggling. I'm hopeful those plants will be shuttered and that production come to Canton. Tho I am sure those Mexicans are a much better workforce
Not sure how Nissan intends it be used since it mentions RAV4 but I like the idea of it the way Ram uses it for a truck application. The battery is plugin and also charged by the ICE motor when it runs out. Intent would be to use the electric motor itself for most driving but if you needed extended range (very important if you intended to tow) then the ICE would kick in and charge battery while in use. If I'm ever towing heavy again I'll be looking into something like that. But for a compact SUV application? I don't get it. I can't imagine drivers in that segment being sensitive to range. If you are just get a traditional hybrid or traditional ICE.
It’s still cheaper by leaps and bounds to build in Mexico….tariffs or no tariffs. It takes like half a decade to get an automotive manufacturing facility off the ground, from the decision to build it in the first place to the site selection, construction, and eventual production ramp-up. Its not like the powers that be didn’t ever consider tariffs as a possibility in our ever changing political climate. They built in Mexico anyway….tells you all you need to know. The labor cost is around 20% of the US, and when sourcing components all the way down the supply chain to Tier 2, 3, 4 components and bring them in from Mexico, China, etc. you make everything on the vehicle cheaper.
A 25% tariff is going to just make the car more expensive for the end customer. Its a laughably ineffective tactic. Said it before and I’ll say it again….manufacturing production that has left the US for Mexico (or started in Mexico) is never coming back to the US. Never. For the good of the country, politicians on both sides of the aisle as well as influential business leaders in all sectors of the economy need to accept that, and act accordingly.
Yeah, I understand the sentiment of trying to bring manufacturing back, but the time for that is over. We are transitioning to more ‘management’ style economy here, and that’s why other countries can pull off tariffs…..because it’s so cheap to make shlt there. Even with a possible tariff back and shipping, it is cheaper.
Trump’s tariffs are at best a long term play, and at worst just a bully mechanism that just pisses people off, even if they are weaker.
Yeah...that the same thing everybody said back in 17. And if you already can't sell cars adding the tariff on top of your price is not gonna be very effective helping you sell cars is it ?? They will have to eat the 25%. Raising the price of the car does not help sales. Most of the problem is units stacking up all over the world. They can't move them. Adding 25% on top would be suicide and also stupid.
Can't sell against cars made here with no tariffs. Someone failed economics 101
It’s a wash when everyone is building in Mexico. It wouldn’t be just a Nissan problem. Prices raise, yet sales still intact because everyone else has to raise their prices, too.
The Pussification of America continues **
Explain this to me like I’m a moron (I am). How does a stronger Jackson make Mississippi stronger more so than say a stronger Tupelo, a stronger Biloxi, or a stronger Greenville. What makes Jackson magical and not the others aside from already being the largest metro? Like specifically how does it make Mississippi better? I seriously want to understand this thinking.
Sure thing:
- It’s the business and governmental center of the state, due to being the capital;
- Cities/urban areas are necessary for jobs and growth, and Jackson is the only Mississippi-centric one we have;
- Most of all, in our lifetimes, it’s the only city/area big enough to even have a chance to be a viable urban growth center.
We really have 3 big areas: Memphis suburbs, Jackson Metro and Gulfport/Biloxi Metro. The smaller areas can grow, but it will just take too long to really make a dent or to create an area that may reverse the brain drain. So out of the big 3, Jackson is the only one that is uniquely ‘Mississippi’. It’s sure nice to have Memphis close, because we benefit. And the Coast is great, but for the most part those areas don’t really share a whole lot of MS allegiance.
So a lot of this is just the current reality. If Tupelo had 600K in its metro, no one would give a 17 about Jackson.
I would think this only possibly works in the specific case of a Nissan, who has existing plants in both places. AND if the labor costs still net out the same.
Thanks. All good points. Not sure if it’s the business center for anything north of say hwy 82 or so but still most of the population is south of there anyway. I think your best point is that it could be an urban center to stop the brain drain. I’m still not sure Jackson itself is saveable. L4 is also right. Jackson and south pretended we didn’t exist for 175 years while we built cultural and economic ties with middle and west Tennessee and northern Alabama (tons of kids went to UNA and my own kids moved straight to Birmingham out of MSU). Now that NE Mississippi is a very viable and relatively prosperous area, it kind of galling to have Jackson centric types tell us how much we need them. However your points are well taken. Thank you for the answer.
Sadly, neither will Jackson.
Best I can recall the topic was specifically Nissan
Why stop with wishing Jackson would become a vibrant metro area ? I wish the Smokey Mountains would extend into North Mississippi, I wish the Mississippi Delta was still in hardwoods and huge national park with hundreds of trails and camping areas, I wish the Mississippi gulf coast looked like the Florida panhandle, I wish all of our rivers were crystal clear and full of trout.
We were also discussing tariffs in a general sense. Calm down, MAGA.