Nissan

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
10,332
9,661
113
Thanks. All good points. Not sure if it’s the business center for anything north of say hwy 82 or so but still most of the population is south of there anyway. I think your best point is that it could be an urban center to stop the brain drain. I’m still not sure Jackson itself is saveable. L4 is also right. Jackson and south pretended we didn’t exist for 175 years while we built cultural and economic ties with middle and west Tennessee and northern Alabama (tons of kids went to UNA and my own kids moved straight to Birmingham out of MSU). Now that NE Mississippi is a very viable and relatively prosperous area, it kind of galling to have Jackson centric types tell us how much we need them. However your points are well taken. Thank you for the answer.
All I want is for the many rivalries among Mississippians to stop. It’s constant comparisons, constant social battles, constant family battles. No one is proud of anything. It’s all about the best way to relate or connect with something outside the state.

This may not even be possible. It has occurred to me that the best way to live and thrive in the state is to accept that fate. Certain towns can be salvaged and even be good communities. But hoping for a statewide revival is likely futile. And honestly, that does not mean good things for a school named ‘Mississippi State’. At least Ole Miss has branded themselves as a regional party school. My love for MSU is really what breeds my love for Mississippi, if I’m honest.
 

Howiefeltersnstch

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2019
1,800
2,291
98
We were also discussing tariffs in a general sense. Calm down, MAGA.
Oh I thought it was about the Nissan plant in Canton. I was discussing the OP. Somebody else hijacked it to talk about Jackson. Besides when somebody tells me I'm wrong and then the Nissan exec agrees with me I like to point it out. Some folks don't understand economics.
 

Curby

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2012
1,264
1,008
113
Those who have said the Nissan vehicles produced in Canton are garbage are misled.

My wife loves her Altima, and I really dig my Frontier, which is currently in the running for an on-line voting contest for best product produced in Mississippi. I can say that any model that has the new engine and transmission (2020 and forward) are really good pickups.
 
  • Like
Reactions: onewoof

jethreauxdawg

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2010
10,281
12,566
113
Oh I thought it was about the Nissan plant in Canton. I was discussing the OP. Somebody else hijacked it to talk about Jackson. Besides when somebody tells me I'm wrong and then the Nissan exec agrees with me I like to point it out. Some folks don't understand economics.
Well, the Nissan execs don’t have a good record of being right lately. Y’all both may be wrong again.
 

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
4,552
5,104
113
You are probly right. I'm imagine you know way more about the automotive industry and Nissan in particular than Makoto Uchida or Donald Trump either one....lol. Nobody builds cars in the US. I'm sitting in a yoyo plant right now
I never said no one was building in the US. I said everyone was building in Mexico. Big difference. Therefore, a tariff on Mexico hurts everyone. There’s not a path to customer just choosing a US built car as a way to avoid the tariff mark-up. The mark-up to cover the tariff won’t only be on the cars produced in Mexico….for any automaker.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: horshack.sixpack

Howiefeltersnstch

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2019
1,800
2,291
98
I never said no one was building in the US. I said everyone was building in Mexico. Big difference. Therefore, a tariff on Mexico hurts everyone. There’s not a path to customer just choosing a US built car as a way to avoid the tariff mark-up. The mark-up to cover the tariff won’t only be on the cars produced in Mexico….for any automaker.
Wrong. It will only apply to cars assembled outside the US. Cars built in Canton ? No tariff. Cars built in Blue Springs ? No tariff. Detroit ? No tariff. Mexico and shipped in ? Tariff. Germany and shipped in ? Tariff. Companies will move production into the states just as they were doing in the first term. I'm done discussing this because you seem to be trolling me. No way you can't comprehend tariffs. Everyone builds everywhere. Cars sold in the US will be built in the US or pay tariffs. Nissan wants to sell in the US they will build here. It's simple. Maybe you should contact the CEO and tell him why he is wrong. Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes all build in the states.
 

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,711
3,697
113
Wrong. It will only apply to cars assembled outside the US. Cars built in Canton ? No tariff. Cars built in Blue Springs ? No tariff. Detroit ? No tariff. Mexico and shipped in ? Tariff. Germany and shipped in ? Tariff. Companies will move production into the states just as they were doing in the first term. I'm done discussing this because you seem to be trolling me. No way you can't comprehend tariffs. Everyone builds everywhere. Cars sold in the US will be built in the US or pay tariffs. Nissan wants to sell in the US they will build here. It's simple. Maybe you should contact the CEO and tell him why he is wrong. Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes all build in the states.
You’re right that there will be no tariff on the car assembled here in America but do you know there will be no tariffs on the parts that make up a car? I don’t really know the answer to that but I highly doubt all the parts are made in America. Also, even if someone does have a plant here and are not impacted at all by the tariffs, they will still raise prices.

Just a hypothetical, if the Altima is built in the US and the accord is built in Mexico, and the accord is now 25% more expensive… do you think the Altima is not going to raise prices at all? They are just going to be a 25% discount to the accord? Now I’m not saying they will raise the price 25% but I bet they would raise it substantially. There is value in being the cheapest product but no value in being 25% cheaper.
 

dorndawg

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2012
8,156
7,785
113
You’re right that there will be no tariff on the car assembled here in America but do you know there will be no tariffs on the parts that make up a car? I don’t really know the answer to that but I highly doubt all the parts are made in America. Also, even if someone does have a plant here and are not impacted at all by the tariffs, they will still raise prices.

Just a hypothetical, if the Altima is built in the US and the accord is built in Mexico, and the accord is now 25% more expensive… do you think the Altima is not going to raise prices at all? They are just going to be a 25% discount to the accord? Now I’m not saying they will raise the price 25% but I bet they would raise it substantially. There is value in being the cheapest product but no value in being 25% cheaper.
Crash course in how tariffs work in the real world.
 

jethreauxdawg

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2010
10,281
12,566
113
You’re right that there will be no tariff on the car assembled here in America but do you know there will be no tariffs on the parts that make up a car? I don’t really know the answer to that but I highly doubt all the parts are made in America. Also, even if someone does have a plant here and are not impacted at all by the tariffs, they will still raise prices.

Just a hypothetical, if the Altima is built in the US and the accord is built in Mexico, and the accord is now 25% more expensive… do you think the Altima is not going to raise prices at all? They are just going to be a 25% discount to the accord? Now I’m not saying they will raise the price 25% but I bet they would raise it substantially. There is value in being the cheapest product but no value in being 25% cheaper.
Do you think selling a car for less than the competition could allow more Altima’s to be sold? Any chance a large tariff causes more production to be moved to the US? Ross Perot talked about that giant sucking sound when NAFTA started. Any chance that goes in reverse?
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
Thanks. All good points. Not sure if it’s the business center for anything north of say hwy 82 or so but still most of the population is south of there anyway. I think your best point is that it could be an urban center to stop the brain drain. I’m still not sure Jackson itself is saveable. L4 is also right. Jackson and south pretended we didn’t exist for 175 years while we built cultural and economic ties with middle and west Tennessee and northern Alabama (tons of kids went to UNA and my own kids moved straight to Birmingham out of MSU). Now that NE Mississippi is a very viable and relatively prosperous area, it kind of galling to have Jackson centric types tell us how much we need them. However your points are well taken. Thank you for the answer.
It's not the business center for very much at all in the north, especially the northeast. We look up and down I 22 (and increasingly across US 72 and AL 24), not down MS 25 or the Trace.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
Wrong. It will only apply to cars assembled outside the US. Cars built in Canton ? No tariff. Cars built in Blue Springs ? No tariff. Detroit ? No tariff. Mexico and shipped in ? Tariff. Germany and shipped in ? Tariff. Companies will move production into the states just as they were doing in the first term. I'm done discussing this because you seem to be trolling me. No way you can't comprehend tariffs. Everyone builds everywhere. Cars sold in the US will be built in the US or pay tariffs. Nissan wants to sell in the US they will build here. It's simple. Maybe you should contact the CEO and tell him why he is wrong. Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes all build in the states.
Do thos US plants get all their parts from US suppliers?
 

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
10,332
9,661
113
It's not the business center for very much at all in the north, especially the northeast. We look up and down I 22 (and increasingly across US 72 and AL 24), not down MS 25 or the Trace.
We got it, you've said it 38 times. We've moved beyond that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AttalaDawg72

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,711
3,697
113
Do you think selling a car for less than the competition could allow more Altima’s to be sold? Any chance a large tariff causes more production to be moved to the US? Ross Perot talked about that giant sucking sound when NAFTA started. Any chance that goes in reverse?
Absolutely I do think there is a chance some or all of that happens. And if someone has the capacity with an existing plant to produce more here, I’m sure they will. If they don’t have capacity and have to build another plant, then costs are going to go up to cover the new huge fixed asset the company had to build. Prices will absolutely increase, regardless of where the product is built. If for some reason the product is already or can be built cheaper in the US, then all the tariffs do is set a new floor for the product.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howiefeltersnstch

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
4,552
5,104
113
Wrong. It will only apply to cars assembled outside the US. Cars built in Canton ? No tariff. Cars built in Blue Springs ? No tariff. Detroit ? No tariff. Mexico and shipped in ? Tariff. Germany and shipped in ? Tariff. Companies will move production into the states just as they were doing in the first term. I'm done discussing this because you seem to be trolling me. No way you can't comprehend tariffs. Everyone builds everywhere. Cars sold in the US will be built in the US or pay tariffs. Nissan wants to sell in the US they will build here. It's simple. Maybe you should contact the CEO and tell him why he is wrong. Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes all build in the states.
Uh yeah, I know how tariffs work. Please re-read the post. I didn’t say that the tariffs would apply to US built vehicles. I said the mark-ups that get passed on to the consumer - by the OEM - to pay the tariffs would be across the board on all vehicles they sell. There is ALWAYS an indirect effect that passes down damn near 100% of the tarriff cost to the end customer. That’s why they don’t 17ing work, and they only make everything more expensive and fuel inflation.

Example - Mustangs and Broncos built by Ford in Mexico and imported to the US get hit with 25% tariff. Ford’s passing that cost on to the customer, and are obviously going to recoup the tariff through sales. But obviously they can’t just blanket increase the cost of just those vehicles by 25%. They’d never sell any of them. Same is true if it was even a 10-15% tariff. So instead of a 25% increase on Mustangs / Broncos only, it becomes a 1-3% increase across the entire lineup. Much easier to bake in that way. And the best part for the automaker - once the tariff is removed by the next guy, it doesn’t matter. They’ve already achieved new price discovery, and prices never come down. The old tariff amount just goes straight to profit on the old balance sheet.
 
Last edited:

DoggieDaddy13

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2017
3,046
1,405
113
Tate's meeting with Trump today to make sure Nissan stays open in Canton and that we get some of that Musk contract money.
We good!
 

Howiefeltersnstch

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2019
1,800
2,291
98
Do thos US plants get all their parts from US suppliers?
I'm sure they don't. The tariffs don't apply to every part of the vehicle ya know. The cars assembled in the US don't have tariffs. If the seats came from Mexico but the car was built in Canton it doesn't cross the border therefore no tariff. Is this that complicated ??
 
  • Sad
Reactions: MagnoliaHunter

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
I'm sure they don't. The tariffs don't apply to every part of the vehicle ya know. The cars assembled in the US don't have tariffs. If the seats came from Mexico but the car was built in Canton it doesn't cross the border therefore no tariff. Is this that complicated ??
That isn't how it works. The seats will have a tariff on them. That's what people have been trying to tell you, this is on parts too.
 

jethreauxdawg

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2010
10,281
12,566
113
Absolutely I do think there is a chance some or all of that happens. And if someone has the capacity with an existing plant to produce more here, I’m sure they will. If they don’t have capacity and have to build another plant, then costs are going to go up to cover the new huge fixed asset the company had to build. Prices will absolutely increase, regardless of where the product is built. If for some reason the product is already or can be built cheaper in the US, then all the tariffs do is set a new floor for the product.
Maybe that becomes the new floor. Or maybe Nissan thinks they need to increase volume and try to sell their US made item for 25% less than the Mexican made competition. Who knows? If I was in desperate need of sales, I’d be tempted to try selling for less than my competition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WilCoDawg

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
10,332
9,661
113
You evidently hadn't. Jackson is not the business center of the whole state.
It’s certainly the governmental center of all of it and business center for MOST of it. You argue over the stupidest shlt, good Lord. That’s why nobody listens to you. You’ve already admitted your Jackson butthurt, so we all see what this is. You’re just mad that someone wants the capital city to do well. So go cry and be big mad elsewhere, maybe go on a shopping trip to Birmingham and go to Cheesecake Factory or some shlt. Typical Miss Stake personality.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: MagnoliaHunter

Howiefeltersnstch

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2019
1,800
2,291
98
That isn't how it works. The seats will have a tariff on them. That's what people have been trying to tell you, this is on parts too.
Right. The 17n seats. 25% tariff on a seat is much cheaper than 25 % on the car. Correct ? Or you got special math ? The parts that cross the border are charged. Parts that don't are not. Very simple concept. The CEO of the damn company says they may move production from 3 plants in Mexico into the US to avoid tariffs. Which would ge a good thing for the Canton plant. It's in the US in case you don't know. Ya think the CEO of Nissan knows how tariffs work or should he consult with the guy from Parks and Rec ??
 
  • Like
Reactions: WilCoDawg

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
4,552
5,104
113
I'm sure they don't. The tariffs don't apply to every part of the vehicle ya know.
Well, they kind of do. See below.
The cars assembled in the US don't have tariffs.
Not necessarily true. Depends on the origination point of all the labor and materials. But, in the general sense, most likely true.

If the seats came from Mexico but the car was built in Canton it doesn't cross the border therefore no tariff. Is this that complicated ??
It actually is pretty complicated. The tariffs would apply to the whole vehicle, but the origination point of both materials and labor all the way down the supply chain dictates whether a vehicle is eligible to have a tariff placed on it when imported.

Trump can’t just say “All vehicles imported from Mexico get tariffed X%”. He doesn’t have that authority. The USMCA roll-out in 2020 dictates what criteria must be met for a vehicle to be exempt from tariffs. Its fairly complex and there is a lot of moving parts to it, but generally speaking….75% of labor and materials has to be from the US (or from plants that pay at least $16 per hour, in the case of labor). Vehicles not meeting those thresholds MAY be tariffed, but that decision comes later once they are confirmed to be eligible for it. Then when Trump or Congress enacts a tariff, it only applies to those vehicles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoDawg.sixpack

BoDawg.sixpack

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2010
4,871
2,129
113
I'm getting more and more feedback that new vehicles are sitting on car lots longer and longer. I don't think the dealers can afford to tack on another fee to cover the Tariff charges.
 

onewoof

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2008
12,338
9,476
113
I'm getting more and more feedback that new vehicles are sitting on car lots longer and longer. I don't think the dealers can afford to tack on another fee to cover the Tariff charges.
This is true. If there's no great deal on new cars, most of them will just sit and age. August should be a good month this year to move them.
 

GloryDawg

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2005
17,005
10,132
113
May be an image of 3 people, people playing football and text that says 'I MISSED THE SUPERB SUPERBOWL- WHO WON? EVERYONE WHO DIDN'T WATCH uT'
 
  • Haha
Reactions: WilCoDawg

WilCoDawg

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2012
5,264
3,652
113
Uh yeah, I know how tariffs work. Please re-read the post. I didn’t say that the tariffs would apply to US built vehicles. I said the mark-ups that get passed on to the consumer - by the OEM - to pay the tariffs would be across the board on all vehicles they sell. There is ALWAYS an indirect effect that passes down damn near 100% of the tarriff cost to the end customer. That’s why they don’t 17ing work, and they only make everything more expensive and fuel inflation.

Example - Mustangs and Broncos built by Ford in Mexico and imported to the US get hit with 25% tariff. Ford’s passing that cost on to the customer, and are obviously going to recoup the tariff through sales. But obviously they can’t just blanket increase the cost of just those vehicles by 25%. They’d never sell any of them. Same is true if it was even a 10-15% tariff. So instead of a 25% increase on Mustangs / Broncos only, it becomes a 1-3% increase across the entire lineup. Much easier to bake in that way. And the best part for the automaker - once the tariff is removed by the next guy, it doesn’t matter. They’ve already achieved new price discovery, and prices never come down. The old tariff amount just goes straight to profit on the old balance sheet.
Did I miss something? Did anyone here think tariffs weren’t going to be passed on to the consumer? Show of hands: who didn’t think tariffs would be passed on to consumers?

I, for one, am excited about an incentive for consumers to move away from foreign made products and incentivize businesses to bring that stuff home to be made. Anything to take back some of that dependence on China is a-ok in my book. That’s part of the problem with Mexico: they have gotten into bed and snuggly with the commies.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
10,331
6,734
113
I had a phone call from a dealer last week. Haven’t expressed any interest in a new vehicle. I guess they are just going down the list of people driving older models that still come in for service or to buy parts. Been a while since a car salesman had to do that.
A friend of mine who has been shopping for a truck forever told me this week that suddenly there were a lot of deals to be made. He said model year turnover with too much old inventory was driving what he saw.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jethreauxdawg

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
10,331
6,734
113
Did I miss something? Did anyone here think tariffs weren’t going to be passed on to the consumer? Show of hands: who didn’t think tariffs would be passed on to consumers?

I, for one, am excited about an incentive for consumers to move away from foreign made products and incentivize businesses to bring that stuff home to be made. Anything to take back some of that dependence on China is a-ok in my book. That’s part of the problem with Mexico: they have gotten into bed and snuggly with the commies.
Commies? I thought their primary issue was drug cartels?
 

Dawg1969

Member
Aug 22, 2012
195
47
28
Not sure of the name, but Mississippi has free trade zones where parts can come in duty free. Not sure how tariffs effect these zones.
 

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
4,552
5,104
113
Did I miss something? Did anyone here think tariffs weren’t going to be passed on to the consumer? Show of hands: who didn’t think tariffs would be passed on to consumers?

I, for one, am excited about an incentive for consumers to move away from foreign made products and incentivize businesses to bring that stuff home to be made. Anything to take back some of that dependence on China is a-ok in my book. That’s part of the problem with Mexico: they have gotten into bed and snuggly with the commies.
Well, one thing you might have missed was the OP that I replied to didn’t follow that I was referring not to the tariffs themselves, but rather the mark-up portion that the OEM’s would implement. That applies to all vehicles. Not just ones that get a tariff.

As to your comments, the biggest issue isn’t that the cost gets passed down to consumers. The problem is that the cost gets passed down not only for imported vehicles, but also for domestic vehicles that were never even subject to the tariff in the first place.

And because of that relatively small increase across the whole sales fleet - that every auto manufacturer would have to do because they all have a heavy presence in Mexico - three things happen:

1) Every vehicle built in North America gets more expensive. Even if it’s built at an OG plant in the rust belt for Ford / GM.

2) Automakers have zero incentive to change any strategy about where they are going to build the vehicles / powertrain / etc., because the tariff isn’t even being paid by them, it’s being paid by the customer. And the marginal, across the board price increases from the passdown will keep sales intact.

3) Customers in the US have no financial incentive whatsoever to choose a car with heavy U.S. parts / labor investment over one that does not, because they are ALL going to be more expensive.

Therefore, tariffs don’t work. And that’s not even considering all the loopholes and parlor tricks that are available to artificially change the point of origin of various components. Again, the China / Mexico labor cost is 20% of the US. Labor is about 15% of the cost of the vehicle. Do the math on that. You reduce the labor cost by 80%, you are essentially adding 12% profit margin right there on the same vehicle by building most of it in Mexico instead of the US. For comparison, gross profit margin for the auto industry as a whole is only 13%. And you can apply the same principle to other industries as well. Nothing is ever coming back from China or Mexico, manufacturing wise. Ever. There’s too much to lose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dorndawg

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
It’s certainly the governmental center of all of it and business center for MOST of it. You argue over the stupidest shlt, good Lord. That’s why nobody listens to you. You’ve already admitted your Jackson butthurt, so we all see what this is. You’re just mad that someone wants the capital city to do well. So go cry and be big mad elsewhere, maybe go on a shopping trip to Birmingham and go to Cheesecake Factory or some shlt. Typical Miss Stake personality.
You blather on about things you know nothing about. It's probably NOT the business center for most of the state. When all you really know is the metro and cental MS it might look that way. We got over Jackson a long time ago. I have actually lived in Jackson for a few years by the way.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
Right. The 17n seats. 25% tariff on a seat is much cheaper than 25 % on the car. Correct ? Or you got special math ? The parts that cross the border are charged. Parts that don't are not. Very simple concept. The CEO of the damn company says they may move production from 3 plants in Mexico into the US to avoid tariffs. Which would ge a good thing for the Canton plant. It's in the US in case you don't know. Ya think the CEO of Nissan knows how tariffs work or should he consult with the guy from Parks and Rec ??
You said it didn't apply to the seats if they crossed the border. Now you say it does. Glad you understand now.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
8,457
5,345
113
Well, one thing you might have missed was the OP that I replied to didn’t follow that I was referring not to the tariffs themselves, but rather the mark-up portion that the OEM’s would implement. That applies to all vehicles. Not just ones that get a tariff.

As to your comments, the biggest issue isn’t that the cost gets passed down to consumers. The problem is that the cost gets passed down not only for imported vehicles, but also for domestic vehicles that were never even subject to the tariff in the first place.

And because of that relatively small increase across the whole sales fleet - that every auto manufacturer would have to do because they all have a heavy presence in Mexico - three things happen:

1) Every vehicle built in North America gets more expensive. Even if it’s built at an OG plant in the rust belt for Ford / GM.

2) Automakers have zero incentive to change any strategy about where they are going to build the vehicles / powertrain / etc., because the tariff isn’t even being paid by them, it’s being paid by the customer. And the marginal, across the board price increases from the passdown will keep sales intact.

3) Customers in the US have no financial incentive whatsoever to choose a car with heavy U.S. parts / labor investment over one that does not, because they are ALL going to be more expensive.

Therefore, tariffs don’t work. And that’s not even considering all the loopholes and parlor tricks that are available to artificially change the point of origin of various components. Again, the China / Mexico labor cost is 20% of the US. Labor is about 15% of the cost of the vehicle. Do the math on that. You reduce the labor cost by 80%, you are essentially adding 12% profit margin right there on the same vehicle by building most of it in Mexico instead of the US. For comparison, gross profit margin for the auto industry as a whole is only 13%. And you can apply the same principle to other industries as well. Nothing is ever coming back from China or Mexico, manufacturing wise. Ever. There’s too much to lose.
You nailed it. They will spread the price increase that HAS to result from the tariffs over EVERY car they make. Nearly every car, even the US assembled ones, will have a lot of foreign parts anyway. That isn't going to change anytime soon, if ever. Tariffs are a sales tax under another name.