Olympics 2021
- Thread starter LineSkiCat14
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I don't think the majority of us are bashing her for possible mental issues, or are all the sudden not rooting for her. I'm certainly still a fan of hers.
But the point is that on the biggest stage, you need to be there. There's no shame in having things like anxiety, depression, etc.. but at the same time, someone needs to ask the question "can you be here, or should we grab someone else?"
She's now dropped out of her individual events (or some of them), so at this point, yes, we would have been better off replacing her.
But the point is that on the biggest stage, you need to be there. There's no shame in having things like anxiety, depression, etc.. but at the same time, someone needs to ask the question "can you be here, or should we grab someone else?"
She's now dropped out of her individual events (or some of them), so at this point, yes, we would have been better off replacing her.
You said no one know what happened and no one knows why but then you criticize her.
I think you should reevaluate your understanding of criticism. If I stated something false, please let me know. The ramifications of unjustified and justified decision making are facts. If you take facts as criticisms, then your life will be more difficult.
I was somewhat critical of Jade Cary for participating individually, rather than with the team, but will now enjoy watching her compete in the individuals.
No. They have four person teams. Once she started the competition and dropped out, she left her team with a void that could not be replaced by an alternate.
re: Simon Biles
If a pitcher or a free throw shooter has the yips, you make some bad throws/shots and maybe get benched. If a person who flies through the air flipping multiple times has the yips, they might break their neck. Not to mention, her performance was SO bad on that vault that if that was how she was doing the team was better with her not competing.
If a pitcher or a free throw shooter has the yips, you make some bad throws/shots and maybe get benched. If a person who flies through the air flipping multiple times has the yips, they might break their neck. Not to mention, her performance was SO bad on that vault that if that was how she was doing the team was better with her not competing.
Then maybe she's not cut out for his stage. Same with Naomi. Winning at the Olympics takes more than just being the best at a particular sport. You need to be the best, physically, AND also have nerves of steel and be mentally prepared. And if you don't quite have the latter, that's nothing to be ashamed about. You're still considered a phenomenal athlete and great competitor. Only d-bags would make fun of them for it or not support them.
But there's probably someone else waiting in the fold for their chance. Maybe they aren't quite as good, technically.. but if they can compete, where others like Naomi and Simone can't.. then that's who we need at the Olympics.
Simone Biles won the all around in 2016. She has already been on this stage.
"Champions don't make excuses, they make adjustments."
I've been hearing about this champion mentality all day from people whose highest level of competition was church league softball in Hognut county 30 years ago.
But obviously has a problem staying on this stage. The Olympics is about winning medals, not raising awareness or making a statement. And past results doesn't and shouldn't guarantee you a spot 4 years later.
For those defending Simone, when would you replace her? If she's showing signs of weakness, do we just let her compete and run the risk that she might not finish? For me, there comes a point where we find someone else. Now, I'm not saying that's now.. this is an isolated incident. But it's certainly something to keep in mind moving forward.
I always hate this argument that people use in sports debates. So, what, because I never did Gymnastics past middle school, I have no grounds to have an opinion on it, even if it's basic and known info? You don't have to be an expert at something to therefor be correct about observations on it.
I'm an IT Engineer and you're not. So does that mean your statement of "pressing the power button turns on the computer" has no weight and can't be assumed, just because you're not an "expert"?
She has literally been on this stage for years. Won countless Olympic medals, world championships, etc. Your argument would hold more weight if this happened every single time she competed at the Olympics or World Championships, etc. It has happened exactly one time. That is the exception rather than the rule. That is an exception that was caused this particular time for whatever reason. No one knows what triggered it. Biles may not even know. I saw an article with other champion level gymnasts who said that what she has is common and called the twisties. Normally they don't happen at the Olympics and you can work through them in various drills. You don't have that luxury at the Olympics. It is like a golfer who has the yips when putting. You have to work through them to correct it. You aren't going to work through them will trying to win the Masters. You may continue to play but you are keeping both feet on the ground while putting. Biles is flipping through the air at a great height and speed while running the risk of landing on her head/neck and causing serious bodily injury.
But the GOAT talk for her has increased, and she also bought into it. 2016 was a long time ago. The allure around her has grown tremendously. The pressure for her to perform is absurdly high. And all eyes have been on here for 2 years, where it wasn't so much the case back in 2016. I still think this is a one-time incident. But I also don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE that this could be an issue going forward.
Also, keep in mind, this isn't a debate about whether Simone made the right move to withdraw.. she 100% did, she was putting her body at risk. So I don't blame her there.
If she was willing to drop out this year, don't you think it is reasonable to conclude that if this continues going forward she will make the same decisions prior to ever even competing. If she is willing to walk away from the most high profile moment of her career, she will certainly be willing to stay away if these issues aren't dealt with. That is a reasonable conclusion.
Maaaaybe. I don't think we know right now. in her defense, she probably doesn't know. But I think it should absolutely be in consideration going forward.
I just didn't like the notion that some had, where we just excuse this entire thing because of mental issues. Almost like a "no big deal, she'll be back next year/next olympics". I'm not so sure of that, and I think questions need to be asked. Look, you can be sympathetic to her, wishing her well, while also looking for the best way for women's gymnastics to get back to winning at the highest level. I think you can do both.
Look at Naomi. Had some issues recently, and while hindsight is 20/20.. it seems she wasn't 100% prepared for these Olympics
She was prepared for these Olympics. Everyone said she was. The training videos from the last few weeks showing her hitting moves that only she can prove she was ready. Unless you have your own struggles with mental health, you just don't get it. Thankfully I don't have any struggles either but I am close to many people who do have struggles. You never know what will trigger it. One minute you can be find and the next you are panic stricken or worse. This is likely what happened with Biles. I haven't seen anyone say anything about she will be back. She may not have competed in another Olympics even if this hadn't have happened. I have only seen people defend her against ******** who seem to think mental illness is a joke or a fraud like Charlie Kirk who called her a sociopath or many of the people posting in this thread who want to bash her.
And again, it is a reasonable conclusion that if she was willing to drop out while actually competing in these Olympics, then she would be willing to skip the next Olympics all together if she is still having issues with her mental health. That isn't that big of a leap at all.
All I know is she took a spot away from someone and could have withdrawn before the first vault?
She was replaced on every event but the vault. The vault is also her best event. That was indicator that something wasn't right so instead of doing more to possibly prevent the team from even getting a medal at all, she did what was best for the team. Could she have withdrawn before the vault? Maybe but we don't know exactly when she realized she couldn't compete. In the interviews, it seems like that happened when she was in mid air during her vault. By that point, it was too late. She then did the right thing for the team and removed herself.
You're talking about her being ready PHYSICALLY, which she was. But that's only half of it.
Look, I get the deal with mental illness. I know it's a real thing and I'm certainly not trying to down play it. But mental fortitude comes with the territory of being THE best in the world. If Biles is developing some mental issues.. starting to develop anxiety, etc.. then the question needs to be asked "Can she perform or should we grab someone else?".
The goal is to win gold, not win silver while being inclusive and sympathetic. I'm sorry if that hurts feelings, but that's my take on it.
There was an alternate. They interviewed her on local news here in D/FW as she is from here, see link below. She actually went with the team to Japan in case anyone got hurt before the competition. But she had to leave Japan within a certain time period after she was officially designated the alternate. At least that is how I understood it. Not sure if they could suddenly fly her back now. But once Biles attempted the first vault, they couldn't have subbed her out for the alternate during the team competition anyway.
Biles went through all of the prelims to qualify for the Olympics. But there are recent videos showing pretty bad mistakes for someone at her level. I remember seeing a profile of her at least six months ago where she said at first after 2020 was cancelled that she didn't know if she had it in her to train for another whole year and go through all that preparation.
Biles went through all of the prelims to qualify for the Olympics. But there are recent videos showing pretty bad mistakes for someone at her level. I remember seeing a profile of her at least six months ago where she said at first after 2020 was cancelled that she didn't know if she had it in her to train for another whole year and go through all that preparation.
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I don't care what Biles does, she owes no one anything and can do whatever. My problem is a culture that claims it's brave...its not cowardly either. I don't think the Nassar stuff is what's bothering her here (it may overall tho) bc she was fine in other Olympics. I think the pressure of having the entire world have eyes on her as being perfect is the issue. Who knows, doesn't matter.
Everyone is human and fails especially under pressure sometimes...yet I don't understand celebrating that failure as some sort of great identity.
Everyone is human and fails especially under pressure sometimes...yet I don't understand celebrating that failure as some sort of great identity.
That isn't just physically ready. You have to be mentally ready to do the moves she does as well. All you have to do is look at all the various other gymnasts who have come to her defense and explained things. Timing and tracking those flips and twists is as much mental as it is physical. You can't do them without both the physical and mental in sync.
You keep going back to can she perform or do we need to grab someone else. She proved that she has the teams best interest in mind when she herself withdrew. We didn't have to grab someone else. She told them to get someone else while the event was actually in progress. That takes a great deal of maturity and composure to do.
She was replaced on all events but the vault during the team competition. Jordan Chiles took her place on uneven bars and balance beam. Suni Lee replaced her on the floor exercise. Jade Carey is replacing her in the individual all around competition.
The team gets 4 members. Had she dropped before competition, an alternate could have filled in giving the team that option. Some alternates have skills on apparatuses that may have sat one of the three remaining and given the team a better chance at their gold medal objective.
Then the biggest stage and the bright lights caused her to no longer be mentally ready.. Somewhere along the road, she lost it.
No one is saying she did the wrong thing. No one thinks she did this on purpose. We all know it took a lot of courage to recognize when it was time to quit.
But that doesn't win a medal. I think that must be where I'm losing you. At the end of the day, the goal is to win Gold, not to win silver and say "That's ok, you weren't feeling it today". Biles wasn't in the proper state to win, and it happened at an inopportune time. Nobody should hate her for it.. but If you have mental illness, you probably shouldn't be competing at this level. And I know that sounds harsh, but that's the reality.
I understand that. I poorly worded it in my post. What I meant was they couldn't have subbed her out for the alternate once the competition had started, even if the alternate had been there. The other three did a great job of adjusting and making the best of a bad situation, and we can definitely be proud of the three that did compete.
No one knew she couldn't compete until the vault so what you are saying wasn't ever truly an option. Biles gives the team the best shot to win so you don't sit her. She sat herself after the vault because she knew that she wasn't right which was the right thing to do. You don't sit your best player unless you have to (regardless of sport). Those alternates also aren't as good as Biles and don't give you the best shot at winning. I don't know who would have replaced Biles on the vault. We do know she isn't as good as Biles on the vault or she wouldn't have been an alternate.
I realize there is a repeated notion that quiting was a sign of courage; however, I think courage would have been going to her team, explaining her problem and saying she would do whatever the team decided. Not every apparatus involves flying through the air as in the vault and these athletes have variations in their routines that lesson difficulty. If her team wanted her after explaining her mental issues, that would be courage, IMO. If this was coming on during warmups or practice (she was not hitting things during qualification, but there was no sign of mental issues, other than personal disappointment), courage required her to never compete.
The alternate doesn’t have to be as good as Biles if she is better than Chile’s on floor or better than any of the remaining three on a different apparatus.
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Do we know the team didn't meet and discuss it? I know her teammates have come to her defense since this.
We saw the footage when she told the team she would not be competing and where she told them they would be fine without her. Have you heard otherwise?
I have no idea if they met or not. Her telling the team she wouldn’t be competing doesn’t mean they didn’t meet before to discuss it. For all we know they did with the team telling Biles to go out and give it a shot. We want you competing if you can. If you decide you can’t, make the best decision you need to for yourself and let us know. That’s just as plausible as anything else.
She had a bad qualifications round and warmups - even her teammates said they were scared watching her warmup so whatever the issue was yesterday wasn’t the first day it was prob a day or two before that.
Not saying they would have won the gold but the alternate would have had more time to warm up - the person that replaced her on bars literally had 30 seconds to warmup
Not saying they would have won the gold but the alternate would have had more time to warm up - the person that replaced her on bars literally had 30 seconds to warmup
Here's an example of someone trying to play when they probably shouldn't have, Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl (not taking anything away from Brady). Did he hurt his team by playing at less than 100%?