Once Great Programs That Have Fallen From Grace....

Buddy Rich

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Programs that have taken a dip in recent years. Albemarle, Thomasville, Starmount, Burlington Cummings, etc. As for my Bulldogs I think the 2 main reasons are coaching changes every year and lots of talk last year about closing the school. These 2 things have had a devastating effect. Can't speak for the other schools but hope some of their supporters would weight in on this.
Now for the schools that continue to prosper...Murphy, West Montgomery. Mitchell, Mount Airy. WRH, etc. One reason for their continued success is long time very successful coaches. Which makes me believe that great coaching is the number one reason for great success.
Would like to hear comments from posters from these schools, pro and con about the successes and failures of these programs......
 
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TVILLEDAWG2370

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Plain and simple for Thomasville is the coaching stinks,I wouldn't even call it coaching...and demographics have really hurt us as well,I think we're headed for the scrap yard OF once great football programs in NC
 
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wncbowhunter

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not sure I would include Mitchell in your list. while they have had a good run over the past 8 or so years they also have 2 one wins seasons in that period. Sure hope the run continues though. As for long term coaching Mitchell's coach is in only his 3rd yr.
 
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BDHarris

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Albemarle is a dumpster fire from top to bottom with no extinguisher in sight. A few are holding on but there is slim to no chance of them recovering from what's going on there. Should close that place down if for nothing else but to help the kids and the undesirable situation that they are in. The ones who have the means to send their kids elsewhere already have. They should take the South Davidson route and pack it up the remainder of the season before someone gets hurt. Those kids do not need to be playing varsity football at any classification.
 
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Buddy Rich

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I think it will be interesting to see what the new school board will do about the schools in the county system after the election. Look for a few new faces on the board. Lots of issues to deal with for the future of SCS. All the schools have issues that need to be addressed. Was talking to a former principal at AHS and he is in favor of one new HS located close to the Ag Center. Good Luck to them.......
 
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moped master

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Oct 1, 2005
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Perfect storm has to align for success in HS sports. Coaching is a biggie, maybe the biggest, but so are administrator support, tradition, demographics, socioeconomics, school location, school performance, local and state legislation, competition dynamics, facilities, etc. I can think scenario where each one of these was the primary reason a program fell by the wayside.

It was no accident that David Gentry decided to come to Murphy in the early 80s. The bones were in place.

If you build it, he will come.
 
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No doubt WM benefits from great coaching and a consistent staff. I think you see that at EM this year as well, the staff there just has not been in place but a couple of years but you can't argue with the results. Both coaches came from good 4A programs that were very successful. If you have a good system, and you have good kids that buy in, and their is community support, winners can be built. It just takes everyone putting in the work to get there.
 

BDHarris

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Yes Buddy, y'all have. That place was a WHOLE lot different 15 years ago than it is now. Like I said, parents who have the means to send their kids elsewhere already have. I don't see anything making that change. The upcoming elections will be interesting in both counties. As far as the consolidated high school in Montgomery County....as Coach Lee Corso would say..."not so fast my friend...." to be continued..........
 

BDHarris

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That it will be fought at every level necessary to keep it from happening. The superintendent is merely trying to make a name for himself to move on to bigger things. He is dumping a 80 million dollar bill on a county that has seen every major industry leave, the criminal element increase(especially on the east side), and most of all the citizens had no voice in the matter. The early college program has existed for many years so that's a moot point. Combining the two sides of the county that absolutely don't get along is asinine. Even at the youth level in baseball they can't come together. This has a long legal battle ahead. My opinion is to make the repairs that are needed at the schools. West will be small 1A before it is all said and done. East will be 2A and possibly 2AA if they actually count everyone who occasionally attends.
 
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EM91

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Oct 25, 2014
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BD just wondering who will be your lawyer? The single high school is a done deal and you know it. Not quite sure why you continue to deny what is going on. Most people understand that you adjust to change or get left behind. Your denial that this is going to happen is very surprising.
 

susancoleman

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May 30, 2016
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I always get jumped on from those people who cant see the truth at AHS. It is extremely sad to say but I don't think we can recover from this year. The only game we have been competitive in has canceled their season due to lack of players. We will get killed by NS and SS. The kids wont come out next year. I have heard that the players don't like the new coach. Which is a shocker considering that is why he was fired at NS. You know things are getting bad here when we hire two former NS coaches back to back. That still amazes me to this day. The other bad part is that the team has not gotten any better as the season has gone on. Actually worse in my opinion. The threat of school shutting down has nothing to do with AHS football being the worse active 1a team in the state. The only two teams we could beat have canceled their season. I am not smart enough to solve the problem, however I am smart enough to identify the inevitable.
With all that being said, NS is a hot skip and a jump away from being terrible again. The coach they have is burying that program once again. I do think that AHS will beat NS in the next two to three years, if both school are still open.
 
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BDHarris

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EM there isn't a plan in place other than the county powers that made the decision to accept a check. If you think that there aren't people on both sides of the river pursuing the issue then you my friend are more delusional than I originally thought. No need to tell you anything else other than sit back and watch and see what happens between now and January. If nothing happens then I will admit that it didn't work out. If it does then I hope you'll be man enough to come on here and admit that you were.
 
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Good topic Buddy, and hope you're health is improving?

I think the game of football itself is in trouble.....When is the last time that we seen two longtime small rural schools such as North Stokes and South Davidson, have to cancel their season, due to lack of participation?....This is NOT an isolated problem, but a problem that continues to grow and spread, and I fear that our beloved sport of Football is in trouble, moving forward.....The numbers from various youth leagues around the state and country tell us that is the trend.....The Constant barrage from the media in hammering home the Concussion issue, and the overall safety of the sport as a reason kids should find some other way of getting their exercise, rather than risk future medical issues?.....Folks, that ain't going to go away anytime soon, and Pay to Play is already starting to spread nationwide, and gain even more momentum, and may be the norm very soon....Would that mean in the future that we are one bad economy away from seeing more small schools fold up their football programs?

In addition, we have already seen Icons like Brett Farve and Lebron James say they would, or have discouraged their kids NOT to play the sport of football, and there's many more who are saying the same, such as our current President....

Amazing to think that in only a short period of time, former powerhouse programs such as Cummings, Thomasville and Albemarle have fallen from the top of the football landscape, while other much larger schools near those communities have flourished such as East and West Alamance and North Davidson to name a few....Staying on top is harder and harder too do for many reasons...

Coaching does matter, and it matters a lot in terms of getting the kids to first show up, and then be willing to due the work that is required to be successful, starting with work in the classrom and the weightroom which is vitally important in order to compete....Coaching stability can also provide for long term success as we've seen at Murphy, Robbinsville, East Surry, Mount Airy, West Montgomery and other schools where Head Coaches and their staffs have mostly remained in place, and established a tradition of football excellence...Those sadly are the exceptions rather than the rule nowadays as Coaches move around more so today than ever before which can and usually does impact the success of a football program, and the communities in which they reside....Football helps to fund the other atheletic teams, and also helps local economies on friday nights....The better the team means more money for the school, and it's community.....

This generation of young people have more options than ever before, and I'm just not sure anymore where the game of football fits in the priority department of today's youth?.....Football is a tough sport, and it requires a lot of hard work and dedication from the student atheletes,, their parents, the Coaching staff and the Community in order to make things work out, and have success......

I'm not even going to get into the politics that surround each community in the state, and those elected officials who make boneheaded decisions at times without fully understanding the future impact of those decisions to Kids, the School or the community that they were elected to serve?....

Rosman had to fold it's JV program this year before the season ended in order to have enough kids to help with depth issues on the varsity team, and the results that you see are evident when mostly underclassmen try to compete against other teams who have more, size, depth and experience.....It quickly becomes a season to forget, and those seasons seem to have been more frequent nowadays than were 20 or 30 years ago?....

I'm already hearing that County School Consolidation is being discussed yet again, and will be coming back up for discussion in the near future for Transylvania County, so the little public school of Rosman may either become a Charter, or disappear altogether in the not too distant future?

Rosman would become a ghost town without a school, but does that matter to elected officials?

Guess a person would have to ask them, and attend some County meetings to know for sure?

As I told someone at the Rosman game on friday, I would support Consolidation ONLY if the new County High School was located in Rosman which is generally considered to be near the center point of the County anyway....

Brevard already has a College, so it's only right that a new County High School should be located in Rosman....Brevard High School's campus could be sold to Brevard College since the Tornadoes already use Brevard Memorial Stadium, and the High School is close to the College....Brevard's gymnasium would also be a welcomed upgrade compared to the Tornadoes old Boshamer gymnasium?

Don't think that many people in the upper end of Transylvania County would want their kids to travel to Brevard to go to school, and there's probably more than a few Brevard parents who feel the same about Rosman, but still I think that it's the only fair thing to do since most future County growth will probably occur between Rosman and Brevard....Brevard Academy has already located their school to the eastern part of the County, and Rosman would be an ideal location for a new County school if one were built....

Oh well, enough about what may or may not happen in the future because us old geezers need to take it just a day at a time...lol

Once again, a good topic, Buddy!
 

EM91

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EM there isn't a plan in place other than the county powers that made the decision to accept a check. If you think that there aren't people on both sides of the river pursuing the issue then you my friend are more delusional than I originally thought. No need to tell you anything else other than sit back and watch and see what happens between now and January. If nothing happens then I will admit that it didn't work out. If it does then I hope you'll be man enough to come on here and admit that you were.
Im not going to lose any sleep over it and I feel confident I can admit Im wrong if need be.
 

BDHarris

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The schools you mentioned, Cummings, Thomasville and Albemarle were also city schools who benefited from open enrollment from the county school systems. They also benefited from having a very talented core base and with the addition of players to fill needs were very successful. Now many will come on here and say that isn't true but they can bang that drum all they want. The facts are the facts. The success of North Davidson now is completely correlated to the demise of Thomasville. Albemarle's issue is one that is close by and without getting a hornets nest stirred up it's evident as to why they are where they are today. Cummings has been up and down for the last 30 years. Not a real good example in my opinion. They have changed districts, city to county, up and down classifications and they have seen that area go from boom to bust and back again depending on the economy. Coaching stability matters but so does community involvement. Look at the way West Montgomery travels/traveled even in the lean years. The support is there and that is one reason the school board has one hell of a fight on the horizon if they think they are going to close West Montgomery.
 

Buddy Rich

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Thanks for your input Rick. I am still fighting Cancer but doing ok for the time being. I put this topic out there because of all the problems in Albemarle and other schools that once had great football programs. Lots of issues in Albemarle and Stanly County. Rick alluted to most of these problems, especially to the future of football in small town USA. As for us when Jack Gaster left and passed away it started a downward spirial in Albemarle. Since all the coaches that were a part of Jack's great success are now gone, we have gone downhill. This year over half the team are freshmen. These kids are not ready to compete at the Varsity level.
The economy in SC has also gone downhill. No good jobs so young people raising a family don't live here anymore. It is becoming a community of older people.
We now have a poor community trying to support 4 HS's. Seems to me consoladtion is just around the corner. I would support 2 new hs's as a solution. One for Albemarle and NS and one for WS and SS. To me this really makes sense. The major problem is getting this community with older people with no ties to public schools to support a bond to pay for it.
In closing I sure do miss Friday nights and watching my bulldogs winning in front of a packed house. However I think this is fast becoming a distant memory.
Yes times they are a changing..........
 

bulldog nation2014

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A couple of real quick notes. Our numbers are currently down for upperclassmen however if you know how to study numbers you will see that numbers are actually trending up beginning with this sophomore and freshman class. We will see if that trend comntinues with the incoming freshman for next year. Nobody said this will get better overnight but 1-2 yrs down the road.

In regards to football that will depend on coach Mason and his ability to build his program. Additionally if Mason is able to build the relationships and trust with the students and get them excited about football the players will be there. You all don't understand the athletes still in our school not playing football. I will say again the athletes are there. This will come down to the coach building his program and motivating these kids to play and work hard.

It's interesting you speak of building two new high schools or one new high school and poor community in the same sentence. I would like to know where we would get an additional 80-100 million in funding for a new HS.
 

BDHarris

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Same place Montgomery County did. Apply for a hardship loan. If I'm wagering on AHS coach next year it's not going to be Mason. Why would he further jeopardize his coaching career there????
 
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bulldog nation2014

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Same place Montgomery County did. Apply for a hardship loan. If I'm wagering on AHS coach next year it's not going to be Mason. Why would he further jeopardize his coaching career there????

Further jeopardize his career? Lmao everything is here for him all he has to do is build the program. Funny how you hate on AHS but only one between stanly co schools and Montgomery co schools has one a state title in football lol.

AHS will be fine it will be interesting to see if your still talking in 2 years or eating crow. Lol
 

wmbigdogg

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Oct 13, 2005
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That it will be fought at every level necessary to keep it from happening. The superintendent is merely trying to make a name for himself to move on to bigger things. He is dumping a 80 million dollar bill on a county that has seen every major industry leave, the criminal element increase(especially on the east side), and most of all the citizens had no voice in the matter. The early college program has existed for many years so that's a moot point. Combining the two sides of the county that absolutely don't get along is asinine. Even at the youth level in baseball they can't come together. This has a long legal battle ahead. My opinion is to make the repairs that are needed at the schools. West will be small 1A before it is all said and done. East will be 2A and possibly 2AA if they actually count everyone who occasionally attends.


I wish you were right BD, but I have seen nothing except discussions about selling timber and clearing land for the new school and now a series of meeting where the only thing that can be discussed is the academic programs for the new school. I think the total bill being hung on the people of Montgomery County is over $100 million $$ when you include the interest payments. And this is being done by a very small group of people (including carpetbaggers that will 'move on" as you say leaving us stuck with the tax increases) with virtually no public debate or input. Looks like nobody cares as there are 3 school board seats up for election with no one new running.

Buddy said
"The economy in SC has also gone downhill. No good jobs so young people raising a family don't live here anymore. It is becoming a community of older people."

Same story in Montgomery County, Buddy. Lots of great kids go through our high schools and then are gone never to return because of the job situation. Lots of babbling about the new school and jobs but no explanation about how this will happen.

Nation said:
"It's interesting you speak of building two new high schools or one new high school and poor community in the same sentence. I would like to know where we would get an additional 80-100 million in funding for a new HS."

It's easy Nation. First slap a 5 cent tax increase on everybody. You say the money is designated for education needs only so everybody is fine with it. You leave out the part where this will be seed money for a central high school. After all you wouldn't want to involve the ignorant taxpayers about making a decision like this when you can just bypass them and proceed to hang a 100 million $$ note without any discussion. I would have been on the fence about a new school until the general public was not involved. My main problem is the huge financial obligation without long, involved discussions with everybody in the county.
 
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bulldog nation2014

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I wish you were right BD, but I have seen nothing except discussions about selling timber and clearing land for the new school and now a series of meeting where the only thing that can be discussed is the academic programs for the new school. I think the total bill being hung on the people of Montgomery County is over $100 million $$ when you include the interest payments. And this is being done by a very small group of people (including carpetbaggers that will 'move on" as you say leaving us stuck with the tax increases) with virtually no public debate or input. Looks like nobody cares as there are 3 school board seats up for election with no one new running.

Buddy said
"The economy in SC has also gone downhill. No good jobs so young people raising a family don't live here anymore. It is becoming a community of older people."

Same story in Montgomery County, Buddy. Lots of great kids go through our high schools and then are gone never to return because of the job situation. Lots of babbling about the new school and jobs but no explanation about how this will happen.

Nation said:
"It's interesting you speak of building two new high schools or one new high school and poor community in the same sentence. I would like to know where we would get an additional 80-100 million in funding for a new HS."

It's easy Nation. First slap a 5 cent tax increase on everybody. You say the money is designated for education needs only so everybody is fine with it. You leave out the part where this will be seed money for a central high school. After all you wouldn't want to involve the ignorant taxpayers about making a decision like this when you can just bypass them and proceed to hang a 100 million $$ note without any discussion. I would have been on the fence about a new school until the general public was not involved. My main problem is the huge financial obligation without long, involved discussions with everybody in the county.

LOL and if they are against it they are against progression and stuck in the 60's. last time I checked I don't think $100 million in debt and having good campuses vacant that you still have to upkeep against progression. I honestly like west monts campus. Sure updating is always nice but they have a beautiful campus.
 
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ocdavis31

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The schools you mentioned, Cummings, Thomasville and Albemarle were also city schools who benefited from open enrollment from the county school systems. They also benefited from having a very talented core base and with the addition of players to fill needs were very successful. Now many will come on here and say that isn't true but they can bang that drum all they want. The facts are the facts. The success of North Davidson now is completely correlated to the demise of Thomasville. Albemarle's issue is one that is close by and without getting a hornets nest stirred up it's evident as to why they are where they are today. Cummings has been up and down for the last 30 years. Not a real good example in my opinion. They have changed districts, city to county, up and down classifications and they have seen that area go from boom to bust and back again depending on the economy. Coaching stability matters but so does community involvement. Look at the way West Montgomery travels/traveled even in the lean years. The support is there and that is one reason the school board has one hell of a fight on the horizon if they think they are going to close West Montgomery.
Thomasville's situation and North Davidson's numbers have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The Bulldogs certainly haven't lost anyone to North. Now East Davidson and Ledford....that's a different story. But North and Thomasville are too far apart to impact each other.
 

BDHarris

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Nation you have been made to look like a fish out of water on here so many times it's unreal. If you think that AHS will be relevant in two years then you must be expecting one hell of an influx of talent from somewhere. Let me be the first to break it to you, it's not coming from the middle school. AMS has been one of the bottom feeders at that level for several years. As far as building a program you have to have the Jimmys and Joes in order to do so and they aren't there. Like I said, the parents that can get their kids to schools other than AHS have already done so and will continue. Yeah, I'll be here in two years and you'll still be on here spouting garbage and getting clowned like always about how "in two years......''
 
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The schools you mentioned, Cummings, Thomasville and Albemarle were also city schools who benefited from open enrollment from the county school systems. They also benefited from having a very talented core base and with the addition of players to fill needs were very successful. Now many will come on here and say that isn't true but they can bang that drum all they want. The facts are the facts. The success of North Davidson now is completely correlated to the demise of Thomasville. Albemarle's issue is one that is close by and without getting a hornets nest stirred up it's evident as to why they are where they are today. Cummings has been up and down for the last 30 years. Not a real good example in my opinion. They have changed districts, city to county, up and down classifications and they have seen that area go from boom to bust and back again depending on the economy. Coaching stability matters but so does community involvement. Look at the way West Montgomery travels/traveled even in the lean years. The support is there and that is one reason the school board has one hell of a fight on the horizon if they think they are going to close West Montgomery.
Nation you have been made to look like a fish out of water on here so many times it's unreal. If you think that AHS will be relevant in two years then you must be expecting one hell of an influx of talent from somewhere. Let me be the first to break it to you, it's not coming from the middle school. AMS has been one of the bottom feeders at that level for several years. As far as building a program you have to have the Jimmys and Joes in order to do so and they aren't there. Like I said, the parents that can get their kids to schools other than AHS have already done so and will continue. Yeah, I'll be here in two years and you'll still be on here spouting garbage and getting clowned like always about how "in two years......''
I agree BDHARRIS. Everyone is staying away from this program right now. It is not only going through a change, it is being destroyed. These Players feel better transferring to North than staying at Albemarle. It has went from rock solid to mushy.
 

Sleehrat84

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Credit at West Montgomery can also fall in the lap of their principal. I will let you guys answer the question of who he is and how he has helped the program.
 

Buddy Rich

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I assume Benji Brown is still the principal. Former head football coach at Thomasville. Great addition for WM........
 

ncfootball_17

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Tigertown Rick said it best, "This generation of young people have more options than ever before, and I'm just not sure anymore where the game of football fits in the priority department of today's youth?.....Football is a tough sport, and it requires a lot of hard work and dedication from the student atheletes,, their parents, the Coaching staff and the Community in order to make things work out, and have success......"

Football isn't an easy sport. The students have to be dedicated. This means spending the summer in the weight room and staying in shape. Kids just don't want to do that anymore. They like doing other things that aren't as hard or something that requires less effort. Then you have the issue of how the kids are going to make it to the school during the summer to workout. A lot of students have to depend on others for rides.

Of course if you have the numbers coaching, administration and community support plays a big part.
 
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bulldog nation2014

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I agree BDHARRIS. Everyone is staying away from this program right now. It is not only going through a change, it is being destroyed. These Players feel better transferring to North than staying at Albemarle. It has went from rock solid to mushy.

Obviously once again you haven't walked the halls of the school if you think all the talent is gone. If you think these kids moved on there own merit you are sadly mistaken. Additionally BD you just are just a blow hard that knows nothing.

Once again the talent is still in AHS and still playing sports. Don't believe me watch the men's basketball team this year and that's not all of them. Oh that's right BD we won't be playing west mont they wouldn't play us this year in basketball. Anyway the athletes and size is still walking the halls they just are not playing football.

Mason could turn this around pretty quickly but like I said before that is up to him to build the program.
 

bulldog nation2014

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I agree BDHARRIS. Everyone is staying away from this program right now. It is not only going through a change, it is being destroyed. These Players feel better transferring to North than staying at Albemarle. It has went from rock solid to mushy.

They feel better about transferring to north? You ever talk to these kids and see the circumstances around them transferring by chance? LOL
 
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I wouldn't understand that because I've always Loved Albemarle Football. North has always been Our County Rival since I was in School. But, the Schools are different now and I don't know what's going on
 

bulldog nation2014

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I wouldn't understand that because I've always Loved Albemarle Football. North has always been Our County Rival since I was in School. But, the Schools are different now and I don't know what's going on

A couple of kids didn't want to go. The bottom like is unless you were around them you didn't see the change that happened during the time in which the plans were announced. I can say this year they are getting their pride back. It's showing just have to give it time. I say 2 years you will see a complete difference that's just my opinion from what I see.
 
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BDHarris

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So now you want to talk about basketball... how many rings does AHS have in basketball? And you'll be lucky if you are fielding a football team in two years. The only win you have is over a team that has folded. I'm sure the kids are beating down the coach's door to get on board that train wreck.
 
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