OT: Anyone own a Bergara rifle?

[AlSwearengen]

I am in the market for a 6.5 Creedmoor that I can take deer hunting twice a year, unless I can find a deer lease to join, in which case I would use it more obviously.

I want something with a threaded barrel so I can use a suppressor. I found a couple of rifles from Bergara that have the features that I’m looking for. Does anyone know about their quality?

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Know someone who just bought a savage in 6.5. It’s a long range, heavy barrel, but it shoots like a champ

 

[houstonutsack]

Look at the Savage bolt action 6.5 C. Great price and guaranteed accuracy.

 

[aTotal360]

I've heard good things about them, but I've personally never shot one. Savage just came out with a "predator rifle" in 6.5 creedmoor that has a threaded barrel and their new AccuFit stock. Plus you can get it for around $730.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110Predator

 

[AnotherOldDog]

Al, you might check with the Bass Pro Shop in Pearl, MS. I use to work there. I just did a search of their website and that rifle came up in their list of Bergara rifles. Out Of Stock at this time. But, they might be able to give you some information on that rifle. And, if you are in the area, you can always drop by some time.

Glenn

 

[AlSwearengen]

Look at the Savage bolt action 6.5 C. Great price and guaranteed accuracy.

I was originally leaning toward a savage, but they only offered what I was looking for with a heavy barrel. Bergara offers a medium countour barrel and is about 2 lbs. lighter.

 

[aTotal360]

If weight is a concern and you want to spend some $$$, check out the Kimber Adirondack. I've actually used that gun in 6.5 (with a suppressor). It was my first time around a Kimber long gun and I was highly impressed.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/adirondack

 

[engie]

Are you dead set on the 6.5?

 

[AlSwearengen]

Are you dead set on the 6.5?

Yeah. I think so. I already own a suppressor that I can use with the 6.5 among other things that I like about the cartridge. The only drawback that I can think of is if I were to go elk hunting or something like that, I would need something bigger.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Probably not what you are looking for, but if you like the tactical style rifles, I stopped in to the Berreta Gallery a few weeks ago. Apparently Berreta bought a company called Victrix Armaments last year and this guy went to shoot one of the rifles in 6.5 creedmoor against an $8500 Tikka. He swore it blew the Tikka away at 800 yards. "Most accurate rifle he has ever seen."

The Victrix is on his shelf for $1400 or so. Looked like a $5000 rifle to me. They also have a hunting line that is probably more reasonable, but might not offer threaded barrels. The guy thinks once Berreta wraps their arms around Victrix and realizes what they have, the prices will skyrocket. Anywho, this guy makes a living selling $75k shotguns, so he is not prone to hyperbole with poor folk like me.

If nothing else, call the Berreta Gallery in Dallas if you want to find out more. It's not something that is readily available, but online reviews rave about Victrix.

 

[aTotal360]

Victrix makes some sick stuff. A friend of mine that's an photographer was at their headquarters in Italy last month taking pictures. He fell in love with their platforms.

 

[BELdog]

Bergara makes very fine rifles. They have been in the barrel business for a long time and their barrels are extremely high quality. Their bolt action rifles are based off the Remington 700 action which they improved. The good thing about that is because it is an improved 700 action there will ALWAYS be parts and accessories available.

Savage rifles are accurate, but they are rough and ugly as mud. Rough actions, poor fitting, flimsy stocks and feed issues were worth dealing with back when Savage was a bargain, but Savage rifles are no longer a bargain as their prices have steadily crept up.

My next rifle will probably be a Bergara B-14 BMP in 6.5 Creedmoor for long range steel shooting and long range hunting. It's quite an impressive cartridge. It's not terrible on barrels. Recoil is minimal. You can find ammo pretty much every where. And, it will hang in there with the 300 WM and 7mm Rem Mags, really hitting it's stride and outperforming the 300 WM at longer ranges because of it high ballistic coeffient.

The only other rifle I am considering at the moment is a Tikka T3X Tac A1, but Bergara will probably get the nod because of price point and the fact that the Tikka comes in a chassis with a built in 0 MOA scope base and I really need a 20 MOA base for what I have planned. Buy the Bergara in 6.5 Creedmoor with confidence.

 

[BELdog]

6.5 Creedmoor will kill the hell out of Elk. I've been very impressed with the 6.5 Creedmoor on deer.

 

[Vv83]

Yeah. I think so. I already own a suppressor that I can use with the 6.5 among other things that I like about the cartridge. The only drawback that I can think of is if I were to go elk hunting or something like that, I would need something bigger.

I'd assume your suppressor is .30 which means it would work with a wide range of calibers. Honestly, if you're just deer hunting in MS I'd go for a .308.. more rifle options, suppressor would work with it, cheaper ammo, etc. If you're dead set on the 6.5 I'd go with this https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6973.html

 

[BELdog]

Also, the Ruger American Predator is worth a look. Cheap ***, flimsy stocks, but very light weight, threaded barrel and surprisingly accurate for the price. I can get them in Starkville for $435 or so and for a budget rifle, they are impressive.

 

[1984dog]

I would look at a 308 instead of 6.5 CM

I am in the market for a 6.5 Creedmoor that I can take deer hunting twice a year, unless I can find a deer lease to join, in which case I would use it more obviously.

I want something with a threaded barrel so I can use a suppressor. I found a couple of rifles from Bergara that have the features that I’m looking for. Does anyone know about their quality?

If you are using the gun for deer hunting with shots less than 500 yards, the 308 will out perform the 6.5 Creedmoor everytime for velocity, bullet drop and energy. If you are going to shoot more than 500 yards, the 6.5 will have a little better long distance range, however, how many times will a person get the opportunity to shoot a deer at over 500 yards in Mississippi. This is comparing a 150 grain 308 in Fusion bullets against a 140 grain 6.5 Creed in the Fusion. I'm not joking here - check the stats/data for yourself. Also keep in mind that 308 are readily available anywhere and 6.5 Creeds are sometimes hard to find and are typically more expensive.

Also, if accuracy is of concern, buy a good gun that will give you a guarantee of less than 1 MOA and invest in a good scope with good glass. Might even want to sink more $ in the optics than the gun - you will never regret it.

 

[She Mate Me]

If you are using the gun for deer hunting with shots less than 500 yards, the 308 will out perform the 6.5 Creedmoor everytime for velocity, bullet drop and energy. If you are going to shoot more than 500 yards, the 6.5 will have a little better long distance range, however, how many times will a person get the opportunity to shoot a deer at over 500 yards in Mississippi. This is comparing a 150 grain 308 in Fusion bullets against a 140 grain 6.5 Creed in the Fusion. I'm not joking here - check the stats/data for yourself. Also keep in mind that 308 are readily available anywhere and 6.5 Creeds are sometimes hard to find and are typically more expensive.

Also, if accuracy is of concern, buy a good gun that will give you a guarantee of less than 1 MOA and invest in a good scope with good glass. Might even want to sink more $ in the optics than the gun - you will never regret it.

Honest question for anybody who cares, what % of deer killed in Mississippi do you think are shot at more than 200 yards? I say less than 1%.

 

[BELdog]

You are comparing a light 308 load to a heavy 6.5 load from one manufacturer. The two rounds are similar out to 500 yards, but the 6.5 carries more velocity than the 308 in similar loadings (a better comparison would be a 129 gr 6.5 to a 165 308) and carries that velocity much further. There's nothing wrong with a 308, but the 6.5 Creed outperforms it with less recoil. The decision really boils down to how far the OP wants to shoot. Do you want to slap steel around at a thousand yards and kill deer out to 800 or do you intend to keep all your shooting to 600 yards or less?

 

[TNT.sixpack]

Been dealing with this for a while. Here’s my experience - the savage out of the box, is incredible. I’ve shot it and I’ve talked to 2 gun builders who use the savage barrel and a few other parts to build competition guns. But out of the box, it’s VERY good. I however, went with the Tikka T3 in a 6.5. I just liked the gun, the action and the barrel better. And I already own another T3 in. .270 and have been very happy with it. Tikka has made improvements however to the T3. Its a much better gun than my old T3. My suggestion is spend moderately on ur gun and put money into the optics. My scope was about $1100. This 6.5 is my 5th center fire deer rifle and so far, it’s may favorite. It’s extremely accurate. I will say though, on a big deer, you need to make a good shoot or u may not drop it. The 6.5 retains more energy than other calibers past 300 yards but U give up a little energy and knock down out to 200 yrds vs traditional calibers. The 6.5 seems more accurate because the recoil is reduced. That’s also been my experience shooting it as well.

 

[BELdog]

The 6.5 doesn't just "seem" more accurate. It's not just the reduced recoil. The 6.5 IS more accurate because of its higher ballistic coefficient. The 6.5 is less affected by gravity and wind than the 308. It will also tend to yield better penetration than the 308 because of its higher sectional density.

 

[turkish]

The Ruger Predator will come compatible with AICS mags in 2018. Major plus. Fit and finish probably still lag behind the Bergara but you could spend the extra money on optics and ammo. I doubt you’d notice an accuracy difference. If you need a thrdd barrel, you don’t have a ton of off the shelf options. If you can spend a little more cash and want to be the coolest guy at the range/camp, the Barrett Fieldcraft may be as good as you can possibly do, especially if lightweight rifles interest you. They can be had with an 18” thdd barrel. Tikka FTW if you can do without a thdd barrel.

 

[hydrodawg]

hmm...

The 6.5 is less affected by gravity .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment

 

[BELdog]

Tikka offers threaded factory barrels.

 

[turkish]

Ah. So they do. No flies on that. Be my pick over the Bergara.

 

[BELdog]

The Tikka will have a smoother action for sure. I just wish there were more aftermarket support for Tikka. That'/ probably why I will end up with a Bergara.

 

[engie]

I know there is a million different opinions on the matter, but I'd do 30 cal if I could...

Have a buddy that did endless online research and ended up with a 6.5 on 140gr berger elite hunters(Copper Creeks). I voiced my concern when he told me what the bullets were designed to do. And my experiences with sub 30 cal guns growing up in a variety of loads. I always had trouble getting Partitions and the like to group from both my .243 and .270. Countless crazy situations on deer hit hard with that .243 and various rounds -- often where things just didn't make much sense -- didn't get pass throughs -- and didn't have a lot of blood to follow. It was a pretty regular occurrence(prob 20-30% of all animals hit).

Anyway, fast forward 2 months, and that buddy put a round squarely in the front shoulder of a 140+ class 8 point probably 240lb buck that they had been seeing at 300 yards. Waited a couple of hours. Called a dog. They called off the search after the dog had been 800-1000 yards of very minimal blood and the exact worst case scenario that I described to him initially. Same hit with a 30 cal and partitions -- and it's two broken shoulders while hoping nothing was standing behind him. Totally smoked if the hit was how he described. Couple of days later he had a close shot on another good 230lb buck -- hit him right -- and that round totally smoked him.

All that to say that gaining range, while losing margin for error on the shot placement, really isn't gaining anything at all IMO. And I dare say few are shooting 400+ at trophy live animals in real world circumstances. If you are doing it with relatively consistent success, you have a lot more invested than just a gun and scope. You are talking about decent investments in stands solid enough to make that shot -- with sand bags -- distance marking poles -- etc. Lot different than shooting at a target out there.

 

[harrydawg.sixpack]

Done allot of reading on this and talking to many people who should know more than me......6.5 Creedmoor is a borderline light load for mature whitetails and too small for Elk -period.

just my opinion from research. They are very popular tho, low recoil and flat shooting. The new .243 or 7mm 08

 

[BELdog]

Your buddy probably made a bad shot. I've seen seven pigs and 17 deer shot with a 6.5 Creedmoor this year and the furthest one ran thirty yards. With its higher sectional density, the 6.5 actually penetrates better than the .30 cal projectiles. The buck my buddy killed yesterday was double lunged at 204 yards and it literally looked like someone poured buckets of blood for the 27 yards he ran before piling up.

400 yards honestly isn't a very long shot, and I would say 400-500 yards is the beginning of what I consider long range hunting. At 600 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor is giving the 300 WM a run for its money and by 1000 yards, the 6.5 retains more energy than the 300 WM and has much less wind drift.

 

[BELdog]

The 243 and 7mm-08 are popular cartridges for a reason. Both kill a ton of deer every year. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a better deer round than either of those two though and has killed elk pretty reliably as well. Several bull elk have been killed quite dead with the lowly 6.5 Grendel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is plenty of cartridge to kill elk.

 

[turkish]

Chevy or Ford. It’s all about the driver, ladies.

Real gunnies know it’s about bullets, not headstamps.

 

[trob115]

I own one and I absolutely love it. It’s a great looking gun. It’s a tack driver too.

 

[BELdog]

Touche'. It's complicated.

 

[engie]

Was that before or after it defied Newton’s laws of motion?

I’m not saying you are full of crap on everything you said - but you are full of crap on a significant portion of it. And you are trying to tell me that sectional density is a direct correlation to penetration? You’ll be that guy that preaches kinetic energy as a direct correlation in archery too, huh?

Anyone claiming 400 yards as nothing has never spent much time firing 400 yards at the type of wild game that gets your heart pumping in real world circumstances.

A 6.5 is not a magic round. It’s not a new round. It’s a tremendous target and prairie dog round that people have talked themselves into believing is a great deer round when a significant portion of the real world crowd strongly disagrees. Just like they did the 243, 260, 270, 25-06, Etal directly before it. Millions will say it’s the best they have been around. And millions will curse the mention of those before they get out of your mouth.

A front shoulder bullet explosion that costs you the best animal of your life is hardly a small deal — and I’ve seen it more than once or twice from many of the above. Why not go with a round that’s going to be forgiving on an imperfect hit — especially if you are going to be shooting a quarter mile.

 

[turkish]

Go easy on him, engie. At least no one’s talking about knockdown power yet.

 

[engie]

Lol, man this conversation is tough, because I don't seek to offend anyone in what I'm saying, just relating my real world experience. People get married to these calibers and that's all they want to believe in. That's true for me also -- with a 3006 in partitions and 300 ultra with ballistic tips.

If anyone would show me a 6.5 driving tacks with 140gr partitions(or equivalent penetration round) at 400 yards -- we will make this an honest conversation. I've never gotten them to group at all in any of the neck downs....

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Honest question for anybody who cares, what % of deer killed in Mississippi do you think are shot at more than 200 yards? I say less than 1%.

I concur and likely 80-90% are killed within 100 yards or so. This afternoon, I could have put 5-6 deer into dirt naps and none were over 100 yards away.

 

[BELdog]

So, sectional density does not affect penetration? Please tell me more. Impart your great wisdom on me. I've spent a lot of time behind a rifle. I've spent a lot of time shooting targets and animals at distances well above 400 yards. I've never claimed the 6.5 Creedmoor was a miracle worker, but it does outperform the vast majority of "common" .30 caliber cartridges past 600 yards. It's physics and it works.

I've killed more deer and pigs than most people will kill in a lifetime and a great many of those were killed with "marginal" rounds like the 5.56 and 6.8 SPC. Those animals include several wild pigs that were bigger than any deer you will find in the state of Mississippi. What I have learned over the course of all these kills is that the cartridge used NEVER makes up for a bad shot. Never. I have seen a bad shot with a 50 BMG that sent a pig running for over three hundred yards dragging his intestines behind him and the only thing that stopped him at 300 yards was the fact that his guts got intertwined with briars and limbs.

You can spout about how only someone with a lack of experience can say a 400 yard shot is not very difficult, but my counter argument would be that you need to spend more time at the range and less time spouting off about your vast experience chasing down whitetails.

Some of us hunt agriculture fields where we don't have a stand that doesn't offer at least a 300 yard shot. Sure, some of those guys try to compensate for an inability to shoot by buying ridiculously powerful rifles with insane recoil in an effort to avoid learning how to read wind or compensate for bullet drop. Some of us just learn how to freaking shoot and keep our skills sharp.

 

[She Mate Me]

400 yards honestly isn't a very long shot, and I would say 400-500 yards is the beginning of what I consider long range hunting. At 600 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor is giving the 300 WM a run for its money and by 1000 yards, the 6.5 retains more energy than the 300 WM and has much less wind drift.

This is Jim Shockey in a Facebook Q&A. He seems to think 400 yards is a pretty long shot. I think he knows something about shooting wild animals...

For me personally, it's way more fun to get as close as possible to the animals I hunt, but sometimes it's not possible. Then the question becomes an ethical one. How far is too far to shoot at an animal?? My longest shots have been: rifle: 470-yards on a mid-Asian Ibex in Kyrgzstan, muzzleloader: 289-yards on a chamois in New Zealand and Archery: 55-yards on a moose in the Yukon.
I'll take the heat, those shots were too long, I know it, but I calculated that on those particular days, in those particular conditions, I could make the shots...and I did. What's everyone else's opinion on long shots?

 

[BELdog]

You need to shoot more. There is a reason that competition shooters are switching to 6.5 Creedmoor and it isn't because it's inaccurate.

 

[BELdog]

Jim Shockey is a respected hunter, but he's not the final authority. Jim Shockey is a good hunter, a great one, but there are much better marksman than Jim Shockey in the world. Plus, he's playing to an audience with those comments. Lots of hunters believe that because they can't kill a deer past two hundred yards with their 30-06 zeroed 2" high at hundred yards, no one should shoot at a deer past two hundred yards because it is unethical.