My 10 year old grandson has a 6,5 Creedmoor and he has shot and killed 4 deer this season and not the 1st one has moved, other than falling down after the shot. The closet shot was 161 yds. I know his dad buys him some type shell they said the gun required.
OT: Anyone own a Bergara rifle?
- Thread starter AlSwearengen
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My 10 year old grandson has a 6,5 Creedmoor and he has shot and killed 4 deer this season and not the 1st one has moved, other than falling down after the shot. The closet shot was 161 yds. I know his dad buys him some type shell they said the gun required.
I'll simply say this. A 400 yard shot is not a shot that should be taken at an animal by more than at most 3% of the rifle hunters on this planet. The OP plans to hunt deer twice a year and we have somehow entered the world of taking 400 yard shots at whitetails. It is an absolutely unethical action for all but the most elite shooters and should be pointed out as such.
I have a Tikka .308. Love it.
But if I were offering advise to anyone buying a rifle, worry more about the scope than the gun.
Also my best experience is to aim for lungs.( 9 out of 10, I get heart) Guaranteed kill every time, and the biggest target.
But if I were offering advise to anyone buying a rifle, worry more about the scope than the gun.
Also my best experience is to aim for lungs.( 9 out of 10, I get heart) Guaranteed kill every time, and the biggest target.
If 97% of hunters can't hit a basketball at 400 yards it either an equipment issue, a training issue or some type of physical defect. I have never met a shooter whom I could not teach to reliably hit a steel target at 500 yards within a few hours. My wife can slap a 12" steel plate around with my SCAR 17 at five hundred yards all day. Her wind reading skills aren't up to par at this point for her to take a shot like that at a live animal, but I would trust her at 300 yards if she trusts herself. We're only talking about 14.5" of drop at that range. The wind would be a deciding factor along with her confidence.
Look, if you are routinely dropping deer at over 400 yards, then I tip my hat to you.....really, that is incredibly impressive. That said, 99% of hunters in MS will never even come close to killing a deer at that range, so get outa here with all of the "400 yards isn't that far" and "that's only 14.5" of drop at that range" ********. We get it, you can bend bullets and drop deer at 600 yards with a 25 mph cross wind....but you're adding nothing to this thread and nobody cares to hear about what an accomplished marksman you are.
It's an equipment and a training issue. I've killed plenty of deer in my life and haven't made a truly bad shot on one in many, many years. That said, I have no interest in taking even 250 yard shots at Whitetails so I don't have the equipment for it and I don't train for it. It would be a waste of time and money.
Most ethical hunters are like me and know their limitations. I don't want to encourage the ones who are no better than I am to try stupid ego shots without the skills or equipment needed.
The gun doesn’t matter that much. It’s all about the barrel. If the barrel’s rifling sucks, it doesn’t matter what the name stamp on the side of the gun says. Factory barrels vary pretty significantly. What about the twist rate of the rifling? Do you want a higher or lower rate of twist? It affects the ammo you shoot and how it gets delivered down range.
The orginal question was re. a deer rifle for once or twice a year in 6.5 creedmor. If you don’t want to break the bank, get a savage and dump the cheap stock. Buy McMillan or Boyd’s, fit it, and start shooting. If you want a suppressor, simply take your rifle to a reputable long gun specialist. I would have him scope the barrel to determine the exact rate of twist. It will reduce the amount of money you waste on the wrong ammunition. Then have him/her thread the end of whatever barrel is on your rifle. I highly recommend heavier barrels but understand this isn’t a bench rifle. Get a solid optic. Don’t be one of those guys with a great rifle and a lousy scope. Just be aware that factory rifles have limitations. Don’t expect sub-moa, if you’re even interested in that, from factory guns. But, you can easily spend less than $1k on a rifle and have a great one for your purposes. A good scope will probably double your cost.
It’s just my unsolicited opinion. But good luck in your search.
The orginal question was re. a deer rifle for once or twice a year in 6.5 creedmor. If you don’t want to break the bank, get a savage and dump the cheap stock. Buy McMillan or Boyd’s, fit it, and start shooting. If you want a suppressor, simply take your rifle to a reputable long gun specialist. I would have him scope the barrel to determine the exact rate of twist. It will reduce the amount of money you waste on the wrong ammunition. Then have him/her thread the end of whatever barrel is on your rifle. I highly recommend heavier barrels but understand this isn’t a bench rifle. Get a solid optic. Don’t be one of those guys with a great rifle and a lousy scope. Just be aware that factory rifles have limitations. Don’t expect sub-moa, if you’re even interested in that, from factory guns. But, you can easily spend less than $1k on a rifle and have a great one for your purposes. A good scope will probably double your cost.
It’s just my unsolicited opinion. But good luck in your search.
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Buy the gun you like, in the caliber you want. Spend a minimum of dollar for dollar on glass, more if you can afford it. Have a professional trigger job done on it, I personally hate and will not own anything with a Remington 700 trigger in it but to each his own. Some people swear by them but I just don't like them personally. Experiment with as many factory loads, assuming you don't reload, as you can and find the one that your gun likes. Some guns will shoot anything, some are temperamental. and its not about brands, I own 2 Ruger No.1's in 270 win, one will shoot damn near anything and the other is very particular. Practice...... I used to shoot a lot at a grand and there was nothing more satisfying than sitting at the bench with a $250 H&R Handi Rifle and ringing steel at a thousand yards. Its not about the gun or the caliber, its the knowledge and experience of the man pulling the trigger. Oh, practice some more!
Get a compound bow with a 70lbs draw wt and kill anything in North America.
They call that hunting not target practice......
At 425 yards, a full sized deer looks like a minature Chiwawa, thru a good
9 power scope....
That is all.
9 power scope....
That is all.
Dad has a 7mm Weatherby Mag, it's a Mark V and beautiful. A marvelous 500 yard gun, my favorite caliber. At $4/shot, however, it's not something I'd want as my primary hunting weapon.
I've been around long enough for all the mag crazes, then the short mag craze, now the neck down craze (7mm-08 anyone?). I really like my .30-06 and I don't practice enough to take more than a 300 yard shot with it anyway. Optics are the limiting factor, more than caliber, imho.
I've been around long enough for all the mag crazes, then the short mag craze, now the neck down craze (7mm-08 anyone?). I really like my .30-06 and I don't practice enough to take more than a 300 yard shot with it anyway. Optics are the limiting factor, more than caliber, imho.
Recently picked up one.
7mm08 that is,
been using a 30.06 for years. (general slight overkill in most typical situations)
7mm08 that is,
been using a 30.06 for years. (general slight overkill in most typical situations)
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Under 500 yards, the 308 carries significantly more energy than the 6.5, which is what you want for hunting. Under 500 yards, the 308 is the better round for whitetails. If you want to poke holes in paper plates at 900yds, go ahead and get the 6.5. Good luck finding a 500+yd range in Mississippi.
Ethical Shooting
I think this ^^^^^^ sums it up nicely. Most hunting guns will struggle to get 1 MOA (basically 1" group at 100 yards, 2" @ 200 yds, 3" at 300 yds) on a lead sled. Throw in the human factor and most hunters are probably in the 2 MOA range. The point here is that you must be able to shoot accurately to make an ethical shot and if you can not hit hit a 4" diameter circle at 250 yards, you have no business shooting at any game over 250 yards.
Another factor to consider is the energy of the load. Most references recommend an energy of at least 1000 ft-lbs for whitetail deer. If your gun does not produce 1000 ft-lb at 500 yards, you have no business shooting at a deer over 500 yards. The 6.5 Creed is an excellent bullet that is capable of shooting accurately over 500 yards, but to shoot this far, you need to have a high end gun and be an excellent shooter.
in summary, I don't care what bullet or gun you shoot as long as you can accurately place the bullet and have an energy of at least 1000 ft-lbs. Hunt safe, hunt often but most importantly - hunt ethically!!! For me, my gun is less than a 1 MOA and the load that I shoot will produce over 1,000 ft-lbs of energy out to maybe 550 yards. With my shooting abilities, I feel comfortable free hand shooting at a stationary deer at 100 yards or 200-250 yards with a good rest or shooting sticks, but beyond that I draw the line because I do not think I can ethically make a shot beyond 250 yards without spending a lot of time practicing at the range.
I think this ^^^^^^ sums it up nicely. Most hunting guns will struggle to get 1 MOA (basically 1" group at 100 yards, 2" @ 200 yds, 3" at 300 yds) on a lead sled. Throw in the human factor and most hunters are probably in the 2 MOA range. The point here is that you must be able to shoot accurately to make an ethical shot and if you can not hit hit a 4" diameter circle at 250 yards, you have no business shooting at any game over 250 yards.
Another factor to consider is the energy of the load. Most references recommend an energy of at least 1000 ft-lbs for whitetail deer. If your gun does not produce 1000 ft-lb at 500 yards, you have no business shooting at a deer over 500 yards. The 6.5 Creed is an excellent bullet that is capable of shooting accurately over 500 yards, but to shoot this far, you need to have a high end gun and be an excellent shooter.
in summary, I don't care what bullet or gun you shoot as long as you can accurately place the bullet and have an energy of at least 1000 ft-lbs. Hunt safe, hunt often but most importantly - hunt ethically!!! For me, my gun is less than a 1 MOA and the load that I shoot will produce over 1,000 ft-lbs of energy out to maybe 550 yards. With my shooting abilities, I feel comfortable free hand shooting at a stationary deer at 100 yards or 200-250 yards with a good rest or shooting sticks, but beyond that I draw the line because I do not think I can ethically make a shot beyond 250 yards without spending a lot of time practicing at the range.
Look at the Thompson Center Compass. It has a 6.5 Creedmoor with a threaded barrel. TC is a very good gun and is very affordable.
I shot a 6.5x55 for a while. Never had an issue with it. I've killed a bunch of deer with a 243. Again, no issues. I killed several deer with a 5.56 running 69 grain Federal Gold Medal Match ammo and never had one walk away from one of those bullets. One of my best friends deer hunts almost exclusively with a 22-250. No issues for him either. We shoot a bunch of pigs every year with 5.56, 6.8 SPC and 300 BLK and very few of those make it out of the bean field before expiring. If you have had issues with certain chamberings over the years, my advice would be to learn how to shoot and study up on bullet design. Deer are not hard to kill.
I didn't say it had no effect. You framed sectional density and penetration as the same thing when they are not. No moreso than kinetic energy and penetration are the same thing. I actually did a thesis on this in college -- I'm aware of what I speak. Of course narrower at the same weight is going to penetrate deeper than wider at the same weight. But we aren't talking about the same weight. Nor the same type or quality of rounds in most cases.
And I'm not telling you that you are totally full of crap -- but you are pretty full of crap. "Outperforms past 600 yards" is a phantom tiger. It's like saying a Buick outperforms a Ferrari past 200 mph. It's so far beyond real world logistics that it doesn't matter.
So you've been killing trophy pigs by shooting them behind the shoulder with a 5.56? Refer to first sentence of my previous paragraph.
Which range are you shooting 400+ yards at around here? I'm curious.
Actually -- the inverse is true. You should spend more time actually hunting wild game -- and less time telling me about how easy it is to kill deer at 600 yards because you can plink a dong at 600 yards from a table with sandbags(which is certainly easy enough to do with a 6.5 and ideal for the round) while punching numbers into a ballistics chart and saying the round should be fatal to a deer at the distance -- we would all be better off.
Once again -- I'd love to see these 600 yard small round smoked deer and hogs that you do with ease. Because I'm calling bs on it. Too much real world experience saying otherwise.
Well said. It often comes back to marketing. Gun and ammo companies need you to want that next grail caliber gun and to load up on all the different ammos you can put through it. They need to make a profit, every year.
Bergara is an excellent rifle, just researched them a bit.
6.5 creed is a fad, just like many other fairly new rounds (i. e. WSMs). The old 25-06 is a much better round than a 6.5.
Bergara does not make a 25-06 rifle, though.
6.5 creed is a fad, just like many other fairly new rounds (i. e. WSMs). The old 25-06 is a much better round than a 6.5.
Bergara does not make a 25-06 rifle, though.
You are a blow-hard fool and continuing this argument with you is pointless because you are of the belief that if you can't perform a task, others should not perform the task. The OP will probably never shoot a deer over 200 yards and at that range he could use anything from a 223 to a 408 Cheytac and be just fine. Again, deer don't wear body armor and they aren't hard to kill.
I would suggest finding a new or used Rem 700 short action, having it blueprinted and a good barrel installed. I'm having one done with a Bartlein barrel right now.
The 25-06 is not "better" than the 6.5 Creedmoor. The heaviest factory ammo available for the 25-06 is a 120 bullet which will drift more in the wind than the 147 grain 6.5 Creedmoor bullets. There are things the 25-06 does well, but to say it is better than the 6.5 is really a matter of application. Within 200 yards or so, yes, the 25-06 does some things better than the 6.5. With heavier bullets at longer ranges, the 6.5 leaves the 25-06 behind.
My gawd dayum Brownin Thirdy Ought Six wid uh 9 Pire Redfield is awl I need for any Missippi deyir they is...
You're right. I've got a whole lot of experience with a whole lot of blowhards that made all of the same claims you are making and couldn't even come close to actually backing them up when the heat was on and I put them on a 550 yard stand. I did almost get earholed by a 25-06 round one of them glanced off a pig's head from about 250 though. But I forgot -- you are Chris Kyle. Oh, wait -- that's a bad comparison -- because the post-service Devil of Ramadi -- shot a custom-built 308.
Just take your 22 long rifle. Will work just as well when you never miss their eyeball within 300 with it**
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You joke...but I've been thinking this while reading the whole thread.
30-.06 for any large north american game is hard to beat. No...it's not sexy but it gets the job done and it does it well. Kinda like your mom.....BOOM!
Would never try convince anyone what is the best caliber of rifle
there are a lot of good ones and truthfully whatever caliber, within reason, you feel comfortable with is the right caliber. Having said that I have a Remington model 700 in 30-06. Only issue I had with the Remington was the trigger. Had it reworked 20 years ago. Since then I have killed a lot of deer with it. Shot two mature 8 points before Christmas. They dropped in their tracks.
there are a lot of good ones and truthfully whatever caliber, within reason, you feel comfortable with is the right caliber. Having said that I have a Remington model 700 in 30-06. Only issue I had with the Remington was the trigger. Had it reworked 20 years ago. Since then I have killed a lot of deer with it. Shot two mature 8 points before Christmas. They dropped in their tracks.
Only the spelling was a joke (I, like many here, know plenty of boys who talk just like that). This is exactly the gun I've been shooting deer with for 27 years.
It's the only centerfire rifle I own.
I completely understand the complaints about the recoil on a big caliber like this, but I don't enjoy shooting targets with rifles that much anyway. I check it for accuracy every season and go hunt. Recoil never crosses my mind if I'm shooting at an animal.
Edited to say that it's probably BS to say recoil NEVER crosses my mind, but I've shot the gun so many times I know what to expect and I'm usually wearing enough clothing that it's just not an issue. I have in the last few years started taking ear protection to the stand and putting it in when I don't forget to before shooting. It is a LOUD gun.
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You are a 17ing idiot. Chris Kyle's preferred rifle was a 300 WM. It's not uncommon for former service members to stick with the weapons they know instead of moving forward with the rest of the world. It's a comfort factor and was the reason I was so reluctant to give up my 308 bolt guns in favor of better cartridges. It's the reason I was reluctant to give up my M1A in favor of AR-10s and SCAR-17s. I'd worked with those rifles and the 7.62x51/308 for years and I was comfortable with it. After working with a couple LE sniper instructors and shooting the 6.5 Creed for a little bit, I changed my mind. The Creed drops less, drifts less, loses less energy over a given distance, recoils less and hits harder at extended ranges. Period.
Cool story. Wrong, like 65% of what you've posted in the thread, but cool. Go do a little research on what he had built as soon as he left the service. When he actually got to choose.
K. Just saying "I have a lot of experience plinking targets" would have sufficed.
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I was today that Van’s Sporting Goods (Brandon) was the number 1 Bergara dealer in the US.
They sell more Bergara than anyone and he said that the Bergara was the top selling rifle this year at Vans.
thought that was interesting.......
They sell more Bergara than anyone and he said that the Bergara was the top selling rifle this year at Vans.
thought that was interesting.......
I'll save anyone interested some time. This was Kyle's deer hunting rifle (not the actual one, but make and caliber)...
GA Precision .308 Gladius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqTQyCgnO_Y
In his book, Kyle spoke of the round, saying, “I used the .300 Win Mag for most of my kills. It’s an excellent all-around cartridge, whose performance allows for superb accuracy as well as stopping power. It shoots like a laser. Anything from 1,000 yards and out, you’re just plain nailing it.”
The man's own words...
The man's own words...