That’s one theory, the other one is that they challenge the GOR and either win outright or settle on a $ amount
OT: B10 expands/PAC B12 TBD
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Separates them from Florida, which is absolutely massive, in addition to many other advantages of the Big Ten over the SEC
just wild speculation on my part:The Big 12 wants quality and not quantity.
There must be a few MWC teams that bring similar value to the Big 12, like San Diego St., UNLV, or Colorado St.
The Vitamins Conference wants to be the best of rest once the slaying (PAC now,ACC later) is over.
With the P-2 (B1G & SEC) being the power conferences , the B-12 wants to be considered the best of the 5 tier 2 ( Big 12, revised ACC revised ,PAC & the AACand have the most valued programs in it getting auto major bowl status while the others fight for bowl invites after the P-2 takes the pick of bowl games and the B-12 has their major bowl tie in.
The Big 12 champ might have an automatic playoff entry as well because it's the best of rest.
Tier 3 conferences will be MAC, Mountain West ( after PAC raids them) CUSA, & Sun Belt which will have a shot at a major bowl if a program is in top 25
They will be the only 2 that matters
BUT, I don't see them growing past 20 teams per. Right now after B1G/SEC teams are valued at 30M and less. Why dilute 70M per with team with additional teams that don't bring in revenue? Leave the others to D2 type status. They don't have the Big names/city populations behind them to impact future contract negotiations.
They will bring revenue. 6 west coasts teams likely
Means a late night Saturday tv package.
Maybe even a Thursday or Friday night game a week as well. They won’t expand without a new tv partner that’s for sure
I think adding 4 PAC is fine (or 2 ACC + 2 PAC)
my issue was BIG/SEC keep growing further past 40 where all P5 is iessentially n one of 2 conferences.
I think it will come to that…2 conferences..and you only play your own in conference schools.
The playoffs and bowls will be Conf a vs Conf b…
Expansion now has to be about brands, rivalries, contenders for the playoffs -- anything that will make people turn on and tune in. It's all about money but how that money will be generated now and in the future is different from the past. How many of those schools actually tick some of these boxes? Geography is important but not as important as it was when RU was added.
Yeah, expansion must be about consolidation too if the P2 is going to hoard most of the money. Lot of fine schools will be left out, but not sure Cal or Stanford add monetary value to the athletic conference. Not even sure Oregon/Wash add enough, given how big these media contracts have become. the school's inclusion must pay for their share and sprinkle some to the others, not or in the future.
People assume the ACC would be markedly behind the B12. I don't assume that at all. It depends on how many schools they lose and that's not a given.
If they don't lose that many, they're pretty much on par with the B12 and the eastern time zone is valuable and exactly why Yormark wanted to get into it. Frankly, I've said in the past I could see WVU/UCF lured back to the east because it's better geographic fit for them. Who knows maybe Cincy. UConn could easily be added as well.
I wouldn't write off the ACC until they lose a bunch of schools and that's an unknown. It could be the SEC/B10 on one tier and the ACC/B12 on another equally.
With respect to NJ Hawk's style of posting. 
I think the B1G is between a rock and a hard place. You consider expansion because you fear the other guys (SEC & Big 12) may make a move to stay out of death's grip. Ideally, the B1G wants to box in the other conferences so they are no longer a financial or entertainment threat. The B1G would be the only national conference with "must-see" teams from coast to coast. Here's where I think the B1G is at a crossroads.
Washington has value, but does it have enough to equal one year of the new media deal? UW has a market the B1G cherish, but I think their overall value would have been better served with the old media deal. A starting base of $70 million might be out of UW's current value range unless the B1G can get a 4th network involved.
Oregon has Phil Knight in their pocket. Knights' worth is Nike, and maybe he can work out something for the B1G to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, Oregon brings less value (Portland) than Washington. They must be part of a package outside the Pac-12 schools to enter the B1G.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Clemson is a high-risk, high-reward. Clemson goes against everything the B1G stands for, such as solid academics complemented by quality sports. Sports you get with Clemson, but academics are an afterthought. The other thing is the market for Clemson. South Carolina is not a big market, so what do you consider Clemson when they are not winning? There was a stretch in the 90s through the early 2000s Clemson was solid but nowhere near its current status. What happens if Clemson falls into the Miami situation when they move to the ACC? Something to consider once the shine wears off and they become another team.
Florida State is the newest version of Nebraska. They may have solid teams occasionally, but gone are the days of top 5 finishes every year. Florida State would become the second largest market for the B1G. Something the B1G is good as identifying and taking advantage of it. The one drawback of FSU is the academics. If the B1G holds to its beliefs, then FSU is not up for consideration. I find the B1G fighting itself because of what FSU would bring to the table and out of the hand of the SEC, but trying to avoid the look of being hypocrites.
I think the B1G sits tight in making a move for Clemson or FSU until something can be figured out with the ACC's GOR. The B1G says F'em and goes all in if they see the SEC looking to act on Clemson or FSU.
I think the B1G is between a rock and a hard place. You consider expansion because you fear the other guys (SEC & Big 12) may make a move to stay out of death's grip. Ideally, the B1G wants to box in the other conferences so they are no longer a financial or entertainment threat. The B1G would be the only national conference with "must-see" teams from coast to coast. Here's where I think the B1G is at a crossroads.
Washington has value, but does it have enough to equal one year of the new media deal? UW has a market the B1G cherish, but I think their overall value would have been better served with the old media deal. A starting base of $70 million might be out of UW's current value range unless the B1G can get a 4th network involved.
Oregon has Phil Knight in their pocket. Knights' worth is Nike, and maybe he can work out something for the B1G to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, Oregon brings less value (Portland) than Washington. They must be part of a package outside the Pac-12 schools to enter the B1G.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Clemson is a high-risk, high-reward. Clemson goes against everything the B1G stands for, such as solid academics complemented by quality sports. Sports you get with Clemson, but academics are an afterthought. The other thing is the market for Clemson. South Carolina is not a big market, so what do you consider Clemson when they are not winning? There was a stretch in the 90s through the early 2000s Clemson was solid but nowhere near its current status. What happens if Clemson falls into the Miami situation when they move to the ACC? Something to consider once the shine wears off and they become another team.
Florida State is the newest version of Nebraska. They may have solid teams occasionally, but gone are the days of top 5 finishes every year. Florida State would become the second largest market for the B1G. Something the B1G is good as identifying and taking advantage of it. The one drawback of FSU is the academics. If the B1G holds to its beliefs, then FSU is not up for consideration. I find the B1G fighting itself because of what FSU would bring to the table and out of the hand of the SEC, but trying to avoid the look of being hypocrites.
I think the B1G sits tight in making a move for Clemson or FSU until something can be figured out with the ACC's GOR. The B1G says F'em and goes all in if they see the SEC looking to act on Clemson or FSU.
Are Clemson and FSU academics really so questionable? How does Nebraska measure up to these two?With respect to NJ Hawk's style of posting.
I think the B1G is between a rock and a hard place. You consider expansion because you fear the other guys (SEC & Big 12) may make a move to stay out of death's grip. Ideally, the B1G wants to box in the other conferences so they are no longer a financial or entertainment threat. The B1G would be the only national conference with "must-see" teams from coast to coast. Here's where I think the B1G is at a crossroads.
Washington has value, but does it have enough to equal one year of the new media deal? UW has a market the B1G cherish, but I think their overall value would have been better served with the old media deal. A starting base of $70 million might be out of UW's current value range unless the B1G can get a 4th network involved.
Oregon has Phil Knight in their pocket. Knights' worth is Nike, and maybe he can work out something for the B1G to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, Oregon brings less value (Portland) than Washington. They must be part of a package outside the Pac-12 schools to enter the B1G.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Clemson is a high-risk, high-reward. Clemson goes against everything the B1G stands for, such as solid academics complemented by quality sports. Sports you get with Clemson, but academics are an afterthought. The other thing is the market for Clemson. South Carolina is not a big market, so what do you consider Clemson when they are not winning? There was a stretch in the 90s through the early 2000s Clemson was solid but nowhere near its current status. What happens if Clemson falls into the Miami situation when they move to the ACC? Something to consider once the shine wears off and they become another team.
Florida State is the newest version of Nebraska. They may have solid teams occasionally, but gone are the days of top 5 finishes every year. Florida State would become the second largest market for the B1G. Something the B1G is good as identifying and taking advantage of it. The one drawback of FSU is the academics. If the B1G holds to its beliefs, then FSU is not up for consideration. I find the B1G fighting itself because of what FSU would bring to the table and out of the hand of the SEC, but trying to avoid the look of being hypocrites.
I think the B1G sits tight in making a move for Clemson or FSU until something can be figured out with the ACC's GOR. The B1G says F'em and goes all in if they see the SEC looking to act on Clemson or FSU.
I explained the Nebraska situation in another thread. Nebraska was an AAU when it joined the B1G in 2011. The university underwent restructuring a few years later, separating the Medical school from the rest. The AAU felt the qualifications for membership changed as NU was a different school now. Clemson and FSU never got the invite.
Like what Cubuffsdoug posted, but I think both Clemson and FSU will be looking at the SEC if they can get away from the ACC.
In my opinion , forget about those two, North Carolina , Virginia and possibly Miami probably will be B1G targets if the ACC goes kaput.
Pitt and Georgia Tech are longshots.
Pitt probably will become a Vitamin
GT only if the B1G feels a deep south presence will brunt some of the SEC's rule in the south and help the B1G's presence there
In my opinion , forget about those two, North Carolina , Virginia and possibly Miami probably will be B1G targets if the ACC goes kaput.
Pitt and Georgia Tech are longshots.
Pitt probably will become a Vitamin
GT only if the B1G feels a deep south presence will brunt some of the SEC's rule in the south and help the B1G's presence there
Not sure your take on Cal and Stanford is correct.With respect to NJ Hawk's style of posting.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Cal is a prestigious (if not the most prestigious) public university in the country, pretty much fitting the mold of the rest of the B1G (minus Northwestern (who presently does not count) and USC (which presently is not in). Much larger alumni base than Stanford. Stanford is the Ivy of the West, smaller, prestigious, and generally stronger in athletics than Cal, but both schools are down in the key sports of football and men's hoops lately.
Don't think most Cal student and alums (at least younger ones) see or like being lumped in with Stanford. I know several younger Cal alums, and they openly mock and/or dislike Stanford, as was done on the Cal tour we went on 4 or 5 years ago. Also, don't think Stanford delivers much beyond the Palo Alto and Silicon Valley market, while Cal has a much broader reach beyond Berkeley, Oakland and San Francisco, IMO.
Ok so mostly an AAU thing which makes sense. But by the same metric im assuming you wouldn't prefer FSU over USF as an example?
Big ten needs to get Clemson and fsu. They’re the two biggest fish in the ACC.
This will be a completely economic move…CBS, NBC and FOX aren’t jumping for joy with UNC, and Virginia. They’d love FSU and Clemson
College football is a Southern sport, it is a lifestyle in the South, not just a game, the B1G leadership understands that they need to establish a presence in the South if they want to be a national conference. You are not raiding the SEC, so what are you left with knowing that football is absolute king, FSU and Clemson are no brainers, they have administrations that are totally dedicated to football, rabid fan bases, essentially limitless deep pocket boosters, and zero interference from the academic side of the institutions. The B1G is about making $s for its member institutions, if you are worried about academics that ship has sailed, this is 2023, not 1983.With respect to NJ Hawk's style of posting.
I think the B1G is between a rock and a hard place. You consider expansion because you fear the other guys (SEC & Big 12) may make a move to stay out of death's grip. Ideally, the B1G wants to box in the other conferences so they are no longer a financial or entertainment threat. The B1G would be the only national conference with "must-see" teams from coast to coast. Here's where I think the B1G is at a crossroads.
Washington has value, but does it have enough to equal one year of the new media deal? UW has a market the B1G cherish, but I think their overall value would have been better served with the old media deal. A starting base of $70 million might be out of UW's current value range unless the B1G can get a 4th network involved.
Oregon has Phil Knight in their pocket. Knights' worth is Nike, and maybe he can work out something for the B1G to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, Oregon brings less value (Portland) than Washington. They must be part of a package outside the Pac-12 schools to enter the B1G.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Clemson is a high-risk, high-reward. Clemson goes against everything the B1G stands for, such as solid academics complemented by quality sports. Sports you get with Clemson, but academics are an afterthought. The other thing is the market for Clemson. South Carolina is not a big market, so what do you consider Clemson when they are not winning? There was a stretch in the 90s through the early 2000s Clemson was solid but nowhere near its current status. What happens if Clemson falls into the Miami situation when they move to the ACC? Something to consider once the shine wears off and they become another team.
Florida State is the newest version of Nebraska. They may have solid teams occasionally, but gone are the days of top 5 finishes every year. Florida State would become the second largest market for the B1G. Something the B1G is good as identifying and taking advantage of it. The one drawback of FSU is the academics. If the B1G holds to its beliefs, then FSU is not up for consideration. I find the B1G fighting itself because of what FSU would bring to the table and out of the hand of the SEC, but trying to avoid the look of being hypocrites.
I think the B1G sits tight in making a move for Clemson or FSU until something can be figured out with the ACC's GOR. The B1G says F'em and goes all in if they see the SEC looking to act on Clemson or FSU.
I group them for one reason. Cal is a financial mess worse than Rutgers. They lack guidance right now and would be further behind the 8-ball if they get into the B1G. Stanford has seemed to back away from fielding a good football team and solid basketball program. I'm not sure the B1G wants another small private school outside of ND after what took place at NW recently. We complain about the Rutgers 1000, but NW has 10,000 of the same complainers with more sway. Stanford has the same issue with a group whose voice is strong too.
You are right, but it's a non-starter until the ACC's GOR is resolved. The academics gives the B1G cover from looking like a predator. Also, I think it's a code to Clemson and FSU to get your act together if and when you are ready to move.
FSU’s president said today that they need out. Big ten won’t look like a predator if FSU is openly stating they need to change conferences.
AAU isn’t a requirement for the big ten anymore. It’s all about $$$
In a perfect world, I would want :
Pac12 - Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Cal. 4 best properties available in the west to pair with USC and UCLA, for a total of 6.
ACC - FSU, Clemson, UNC and ND
Takes you to 24 and be done with it. Let the SEC pick from the remnants.
Pac12 - Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Cal. 4 best properties available in the west to pair with USC and UCLA, for a total of 6.
ACC - FSU, Clemson, UNC and ND
Takes you to 24 and be done with it. Let the SEC pick from the remnants.
Very fair points, but who are Rutgers fans to cast stones at the states of other football and basketball programs at the time of invite into the B1G?
You are correct about Cal's financial woes, and I think @retired711 has good info on that. IIRC, they owe quite a bit on their football stadium, and they have a louder and grouchier group of anti-sports faculty than Rutgers. Not sure what the deal is with Stanford and football lately. Cal had a very decent run in football in the 1990's and early 2000s? But basketball has been a real mess-they recently hired a new coach.
My sense is that Cal (or at least Cal fans) would accept *any* Big Ten offer.
There is a long way between saying you want out like FSU has, and actually getting out.
Neither the B1G nor SEC will consider FSU/Clemson until their availability is more certain.
Big Ten would be better served IMO going after UNC-----a better fit. High end academic State University with an excellent all around athletic program.
If the ACC capsized they'll want to go somewhere and I don't think it would be the SEC.
I don’t think all around athletic programs matter in expansion anymore. It’s all about football.
FSU and Nebraska are night and dayWith respect to NJ Hawk's style of posting.
I think the B1G is between a rock and a hard place. You consider expansion because you fear the other guys (SEC & Big 12) may make a move to stay out of death's grip. Ideally, the B1G wants to box in the other conferences so they are no longer a financial or entertainment threat. The B1G would be the only national conference with "must-see" teams from coast to coast. Here's where I think the B1G is at a crossroads.
Washington has value, but does it have enough to equal one year of the new media deal? UW has a market the B1G cherish, but I think their overall value would have been better served with the old media deal. A starting base of $70 million might be out of UW's current value range unless the B1G can get a 4th network involved.
Oregon has Phil Knight in their pocket. Knights' worth is Nike, and maybe he can work out something for the B1G to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, Oregon brings less value (Portland) than Washington. They must be part of a package outside the Pac-12 schools to enter the B1G.
Cal and Stanford are grouped together because there isn't much difference between them in what they bring to the table. Either can give you entrance to the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose region, which is enormous as a metro area. Both seem less interested in investing in major sports right now. I would put them in the last group of teams to be considered. Cal had politicians going to bat for them to siphon money away from UCLA's B1G cut. That's a red flag as to what to expect from them if things go south. Overall, you can live with either Cal or Stanford going to the Big 12, but not both.
If the B1G makes a move, then go with UW and Oregon first. Figure out the Cal and Stanford later.
Clemson is a high-risk, high-reward. Clemson goes against everything the B1G stands for, such as solid academics complemented by quality sports. Sports you get with Clemson, but academics are an afterthought. The other thing is the market for Clemson. South Carolina is not a big market, so what do you consider Clemson when they are not winning? There was a stretch in the 90s through the early 2000s Clemson was solid but nowhere near its current status. What happens if Clemson falls into the Miami situation when they move to the ACC? Something to consider once the shine wears off and they become another team.
Florida State is the newest version of Nebraska. They may have solid teams occasionally, but gone are the days of top 5 finishes every year. Florida State would become the second largest market for the B1G. Something the B1G is good as identifying and taking advantage of it. The one drawback of FSU is the academics. If the B1G holds to its beliefs, then FSU is not up for consideration. I find the B1G fighting itself because of what FSU would bring to the table and out of the hand of the SEC, but trying to avoid the look of being hypocrites.
I think the B1G sits tight in making a move for Clemson or FSU until something can be figured out with the ACC's GOR. The B1G says F'em and goes all in if they see the SEC looking to act on Clemson or FSU.
They haven’t been relavent in over 20 years and need to recruit out of state
We also don’t have murderers and massive coverups like they did
I agree Wel likely never see 14 straight top 5 finishes again - that was unprecented
Academic wise they’re light years ahead of where they used to be and climbing rapidly
Prob ahead or even with 1/2 B1G academic wise
Yeah I'll pass on Clemson. Academic chops are important in the B1G and they would easily be the worst school academically if they come in.
Twitter showing that any idiot can be a "journalist". Damn, that is a dumb comparison.
Hopes to find a Big Ten or SEC home would be Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Miami, GaTech, UNC, UVa, Oregon, Washington, Cal, Stanford.
Hopes to find a home in Big 12 would be those left off of the above Big Ten/SEC list and Arizona, ASU, Utah, BC, Syracuse, L'Ville, VaTech, Wake Forest, NC State, UConn.
As you note, Oregon St and Washington St would be done sure are done.
The NCAA dies for Tier A Football and remains for Tier B - remainder FBS and FCS and lower level.
Some one these lists will not have a seat when the music ends in this round. Let the music begin.