OT: Barkley considering sitting out this season

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
What did the Giants offer?

Mid season, think it was 13-14 per with 19 guaranteed. Barkley turned it down.

Dropped to 10 per after the season with 22m guaranteed.

I can understand SB being upset watching his QB getting 40 for 4 with 82 guaranteed - when he carried the offense. But it’s likely to be a long time before any RB gets Mccaffrey money.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
Barkley is far and away the Jints' biggest offensive threat, and showed last year that he is healthy. 1300 yds rushing and 57 receptions. Let's see what the next best RB for the Giants could do. And this doesn't take into account the degree to which opposing teams have to focus on him, which enhances the passing game.

To nickel and dime him on the salary is just stupid.
Nickel and dime? $10 million is nickel and dime??
 

krup

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
70,133
10,066
0
That’s not what I read. The deal breaker is 3mm in guaranteed money. SB was 30% of the O by yds. He is not worth that much to other teams but to the Giants, pay the man the extra 3mm in guaranteed money.
I don’t believe they can now that the deadline has passed. The only option is play for the tag number or sit out.
 
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RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
Barkley is far and away the Jints' biggest offensive threat, and showed last year that he is healthy. 1300 yds rushing and 57 receptions. Let's see what the next best RB for the Giants could do. And this doesn't take into account the degree to which opposing teams have to focus on him, which enhances the passing game.

To nickel and dime him on the salary is just stupid.

Giants would be better off going out and getting a WR who can catch rather than overpaying an RB to catch.

When was the last time a SB winning team had the highest paid RB in the league?

It does suck for Saquon as he’s easily a top 5, top 3 RB.
 

koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
35,792
55,693
113
That’s not what I read. The deal breaker is 3mm in guaranteed money. SB was 30% of the O by yds. He is not worth that much to other teams but to the Giants, pay the man the extra 3mm in guaranteed money.
The Barkley bad advice team came down off their ridiculous original numbers, Giants final offer was about $11.5 mil. a year and $22 to $23 mil in guaranteed money over 3 yrs. A fair offer but the Barkley bad advice team seems to be compounding mistake after mistake. They were a couple mil. off on both per year and guaranteed.

Now that his bad advice team got tagged, they want to take their ball and go home. He does that and after this year he'll be lucky to get a $10 mil. contract. Plus being an often injured 27 yr. old good luck with the guarantees.
 
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WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
Giants would be better off going out and getting a WR who can catch rather than overpaying an RB to catch.

When was the last time a SB winning team had the highest paid RB in the league?

It does suck for Saquon as he’s easily a top 5, top 3 RB.
Easily top 5 last year. How about 2021??
 

Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
We all know, and Saquan knows, RB isn't as relevant in today's NFL. Rules and metrics favor passing. There is nothing unfair about it.

And this relates to my major beef with the Schiano philosophy, hire and playcalling (yes HIS playcalling, vis-a-vis HIS playbook).

Even in the NFL with roughly equal talent on all teams via the draft, trades and free-agency, a run-heavy offense is a recipe for losing. Passing wins. It's obvious; it's why teams don't emphasize running anymore.

In our case, obviously undertalented and undersized compared to the teams in our conference, a run-oriented offense is certain to fail. Heck, it's not even working at Nebraska or Wisconsin anymore. UW hired a guy who had an explosive offense at Cinci and not status-quo Leonhard. Don't forget OSU hired Ryan Day (the OC), not Schiano (the DC) despite Day having much less experience.

Perhaps at LSU, Michigan and Texas, almost always with a talent and size advantage, running works. But not here. We need imagination and unpredictability, two critical things Schiano isn't capable of.

2.O was destined to be a bust....and we see it already not even halfway through his contract. Running the ball and playing D won't ever work with equal or less talent, which is our position in the conference. And with the predestined losing, it will continue to be. 8 years of our lives and $32M of RU money better spent on someone else completely wasted.
Cmon … you have some valid points but this is not the thread
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
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The Barkley bad advice team came down off their ridiculous original numbers, Giants final offer was about $11.5 mil. a year and $22 to $23 mil in guaranteed money over 3 yrs. A fair offer but the Barkley bad advice team seems to be compounding mistake after mistake. They were a couple mil. off on both per year and guaranteed.

Now that his bad advice team got tagged, they want to take their ball and go home. He does that and after this year he'll be lucky to get a $10 mil. contract. Plus being an often injured 27 yr. old good luck with the guarantees.
Should have signed the 2 year deal and got some incentives .
 
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SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,442
9,245
113
Easily top 5 last year. How about 2021??
He was coming off an ACL and had almost no threat at QB. With Daboll running the show and Jones improving a lot, they could be decent this year with SB. Without him, they are 6-10. He changes defenses.
 
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WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,359
21,742
113
He was coming off an ACL and had almost no threat at QB. With Daboll running the show and Jone improving a lot, they could be decent this year with SB. Without him, they are 6-10. He changes defenses.
So you want to sign another NY Yankees Stanton who is hurt more then plays? And when he plays he is below average??
 

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
220,821
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Does he still have that smoke show girlfriend who got an anchor baby out of him while in college?
 
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jakeknight

Senior
Jan 29, 2009
1,273
967
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Barkley has a run away ego, because the 49ers overplayed McCaffrey, Barkley should get stupid money. Go ahead and sit out this year and blow off 11-12 mil. That you will never get back, and go sit in the corner and pout. Three years 22 mil guaranteed and you’re going to sit, someone needs to educate him on economics 101. Perhaps someone should explain a little thing like the present value theory off money “ A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow”
 

Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
Does he still have that smoke show girlfriend who got an anchor baby out of him while in college?
Not sure. But I just realized his great uncle is former boxer Iran Barkley . Hell of a fighter back when people still cared about boxing.
 

SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,442
9,245
113
So you want to sign another NY Yankees Stanton who is hurt more then plays? And when he plays he is below average??
How is 4th best in the league last year below average? No point in arguing with someone who isn't interested in data.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,845
12,068
82
The Barkley bad advice team came down off their ridiculous original numbers, Giants final offer was about $11.5 mil. a year and $22 to $23 mil in guaranteed money over 3 yrs. A fair offer but the Barkley bad advice team seems to be compounding mistake after mistake. They were a couple mil. off on both per year and guaranteed.

Now that his bad advice team got tagged, they want to take their ball and go home. He does that and after this year he'll be lucky to get a $10 mil. contract. Plus being an often injured 27 yr. old good luck with the guarantees.
Again, I read Giants offer 19 in guaranteed and he wanted 22.
 

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
13,604
12,367
0
Only reason it’s even a tough decision is because he’s a great guy and the fans love him. It’s a no brainer from a business perspective.

I remember Giants fans saying Barkley is “different” and would accept a team friendly deal.
With little to no basis for that opinion. Everyone is a “great guy” until they do something fans don’t agree with.

It was never going to happen but they shouldn’t have ever picked up his 5th year option.
Just throwing good money after bad.
Thankfully we have a real GM now.
 
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RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
Wasted Eli ???
2 titles and 5 playoff appearances!
Sign me up to waste Barkley like that

Almost all of that happened in the first half of his career.

Last championship was 2011 season, when Eli was 30, in the middle of his prime. They made the playoffs once over Eli’s next 8 seasons before he retired in 2019.

He spent the last 8 years of his career on his back because of the horrendous OL play.
 
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RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
I remember Giants fans saying Barkley is “different” and would accept a team friendly deal.
With little to no basis for that opinion. Everyone is a “great guy” until they do something fans don’t agree with.

It was never going to happen but they shouldn’t have ever picked up his 5th year option.
Just throwing good money after bad.
Thankfully we have a real GM now.

I don’t think like that. Business is business. Character is character. He’s got a few years left of his career, he should be trying to get as much as he can. I don’t fault anyone for that.
 
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RUInsanityToo

All-American
May 5, 2006
9,404
9,626
113
How is 4th best in the league last year below average? No point in arguing with someone who isn't interested in data.

I know you're very smart but you are omitting some data points in this case.

Giants salary cap situation both this year and beyond. They will be looking to free up cash for a #1 reciever....why?

Daboll's history as an OC was WR and QB focused.

The NFL current rules are trending towards WR strike offenses

RBs start their decline after 28

There are a significant number of respectable RBs as free agents....even some big names

Guys who had great seasons last year like Miles Sanders are only getting paid < $7M per season

Barkley's production (i.e Yards per Carry) dropped off significantly later in the season after game #9 last year

Every cap dollar counts to a winner in the NFL even if it might appear to be penny pinching.
 
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koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
35,792
55,693
113
Again, I read Giants offer 19 in guaranteed and he wanted 22.
From what I read they were guaranteeing two years of the deal between $22mil to $23 mil.. Giants last offer between $11mil. to $11.5mil per on a 3 yr. deal. Barkley's team wanted $1mil. to $2 mil. more per yr. and corresponding guaranteed money.

Giants came up, Barkley came down but they couldn't work out the last few million. Gettleman while trying to save his job, left them in a horrible salary cap crunch with ****** players. You have to look at the constraints Schoen is working in, he has no choice but to play hardball with an oft injured player.
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
Almost all of that happened in the first half of his career.

Last championship was 2011 season, when Eli was 30, in the middle of his prime. They made the playoffs once over Eli’s next 8 seasons before he retired in 2019.

He spent the last 8 years of his career on his back because of the horrendous OL play.
Still wouldn’t say they wasted him. They got the 2 titles. I think it was actually 6 playoff appearances. ….
Yeah most of that happened in first half of a career . But most guys don’t have careers that good.
Wasting a guy is what rutgers did with Pacheco and douby.
 
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Shelby65

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2008
7,902
4,362
66
Cmon … you have some valid points but this is not the thread
Is all related…skills and philosophy don’t translate anymore. Same as centers in basketball once metrics favor three point shots.

But I hear ya. I’ll find another thread to hammer 2.0. I’ve got nothing against Saquan but I’m not sympathetic either. For every devalued RB there’s new opportunity for a receiver.
 
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SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,442
9,245
113
I know you're very smart but you are omitting some data points in this case.

Giants salary cap situation both this year and beyond. They will be looking to free up cash for a #1 reciever....why?

Daboll's history as an OC was WR and QB focused.

The NFL current rules are trending towards WR strike offenses

RBs start their decline after 28

There are a significant number of respectable RBs as free agents....even some big names

Guys who had great seasons last year like Miles Sanders are only getting paid < $7M per season

Barkley's production (i.e Yards per Carry) dropped off significantly later in the season after game #9 last year

Every cap dollar counts to a winner in the NFL even if it might appear to be penny pinching.
SB's yards per carry for the last five games of the season were all higher than average for the year.

SB was 28% of the NYG offense last year. Daboll was a QB coach a lot, but he seems to have figured out how to use SB highly effectively.

SB will be 26 throughout the 2023 season. He's pretty much at the height of his career.

NFL rosters have 55 players. Lots of places to save cap money.

So, you make some good points, others maybe not so much, but at the end of the day, he's a great weapon and it would be incredibly stupid to lose him over a couple of million dollars for a billion dollar franchise.

I'm guessing they figure out some way to make this happen.
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
Still wouldn’t say they wasted him. They got the 2 titles. I think it was actually 6 playoff appearances. ….
Yeah most of that happened in first half of a career . But most guys don’t have careers that good.
Wasting a guy is what rutgers did with Pacheco and douby.

The Giants had a franchise QB and missed the playoffs in 7 of Eli’s last 8 seasons - behind horrendous line play.

Are there any other franchise, borderline HOF QBs who missed the playoffs for the last near decade of their careers.

The Giants haven’t been relevant since that SB win. I say this as a Giants fan.
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
That was two years ago when he was hurt. Last year, when he wasn't hurt, he had a great season. Simple as.

Don’t know why people need to lessen Saquans contributions to make their point? He’s a great player at a position that’s been devalued. The only thing he did wrong was being born too late (perhaps a few years earlier and he would have played for Greg and everything would be different…for all of us…).
 

Shelby65

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2008
7,902
4,362
66
Don’t know why people need to lessen Saquans contributions to make their point? He’s a great player at a position that’s been devalued. The only thing he did wrong was being born too late (perhaps a few years earlier and he would have played for Greg and everything would be different…for all of us…).
Right. 50 years ago 7ft stiffs made NBA rosters and today talented 7 ft big men don’t. Overpaying is wasting money.
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,845
12,068
82
All you have to do is look at Daniel Jones QB rating by year and tell me SB isn’t worth the extra 3mm.
 
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Rutgers85_rivals

All-Conference
Jul 5, 2014
1,704
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SB's yards per carry for the last five games of the season were all higher than average for the year.

SB was 28% of the NYG offense last year. Daboll was a QB coach a lot, but he seems to have figured out how to use SB highly effectively.

SB will be 26 throughout the 2023 season. He's pretty much at the height of his career.

NFL rosters have 55 players. Lots of places to save cap money.

So, you make some good points, others maybe not so much, but at the end of the day, he's a great weapon and it would be incredibly stupid to lose him over a couple of million dollars for a billion dollar franchise.

I'm guessing they figure out some way to make this happen.
His only option to get money is to sign the franchise tag. He can’t sign a multi-year deal now per the franchise rules.
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
Barkley has a run away ego, because the 49ers overplayed McCaffrey, Barkley should get stupid money. Go ahead and sit out this year and blow off 11-12 mil. That you will never get back, and go sit in the corner and pout. Three years 22 mil guaranteed and you’re going to sit, someone needs to educate him on economics 101. Perhaps someone should explain a little thing like the present value theory off money “ A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow”

mccaffreys 4 year, 16 million per year contract was done with the Panthers. Which should tell you all you need to know about how sound of a decision it was.

The Niners could make the move for him because they have a cheap QB room - yet they still restructured his contract to spread out the cap hit.
 

RU at the shore

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2005
4,836
1,667
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We all know, and Saquan knows, RB isn't as relevant in today's NFL. Rules and metrics favor passing. There is nothing unfair about it.

And this relates to my major beef with the Schiano philosophy, hire and playcalling (yes HIS playcalling, vis-a-vis HIS playbook).

Even in the NFL with roughly equal talent on all teams via the draft, trades and free-agency, a run-heavy offense is a recipe for losing. Passing wins. It's obvious; it's why teams don't emphasize running anymore.

In our case, obviously undertalented and undersized compared to the teams in our conference, a run-oriented offense is certain to fail. Heck, it's not even working at Nebraska or Wisconsin anymore. UW hired a guy who had an explosive offense at Cinci and not status-quo Leonhard. Don't forget OSU hired Ryan Day (the OC), not Schiano (the DC) despite Day having much less experience.

Perhaps at LSU, Michigan and Texas, almost always with a talent and size advantage, running works. But not here. We need imagination and unpredictability, two critical things Schiano isn't capable of.

2.O was destined to be a bust....and we see it already not even halfway through his contract. Running the ball and playing D won't ever work with equal or less talent, which is our position in the conference. And with the predestined losing, it will continue to be. 8 years of our lives and $32M of RU money better spent on someone else completely wasted.
Shelby gonna Shelby, yawn
 

jakeknight

Senior
Jan 29, 2009
1,273
967
0
I stand corrected on the panthers point and mccaffrey.
Still because the panthers overpay for mccaffrey that doesn’t make him a benchmark. But it still makes the Panthers ridiculously inept
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,017
37,430
113
SB is the offense for the Giants. Giants fan can just take the year off too. Bell was a nice compliment but they had a passing game and can plug RB. Giants don’t have that luxury. It’s a lose lose situation.

Giants are a far worse off team without Barkley no doubt.
 
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