While I agree that Bell and Barclay did and could be making a mistake…Steelers didn’t go through this and the Giants aren’t…Both players are going through this…
Sucks for them but it is also reality. Both getting bad advice too.
OT: Barkley considering sitting out this season
- Thread starter DJ Spanky
- Start date
Sucks for them but it is also reality. Both getting bad advice too.
He will get paid less in his career if he sits out a year than if he plays this season. There's a guarantee you can take to the bank.
It’s a job. Would you feel the same if your employer doesn’t properly value/pay you for what you do? Giants screwed up by overpaying Jones, who is average at best. So they are trying to fix that mistake by not paying their best offensive player.
Bell was a different situation. Steelers had a lot more on offense than just Bell. Plus, Steelers screwed Bell by placing the tag on him TWICE.
What if he sits out, loses 10 mil and gets hurt doing a commercial? I am on the side of Barkley but he has no real choice. If he loses this $10 mil- he will NEVER make it up. Even if he plays and they tag him again next year- if he sits out this year, no one would be signing him for the value of that tag either. Sitting out will cost much more than just this year's salary. I see it this way- $10 mil this year and most likely in the same range next year if they tag him again. There is no business model in the world that can get the Giants to up their ante too much. It is business.
Now, maybe if Jones was smart and recognized how much SB meant to him- he could have said, give me 38 and give the other 2 to my buddy. But that didnt happen.
It is sort of what fans have been doing way before the start of the internet...just saying Speaking for both Team and player.
If we all can't do that, then, what is the point?
Sounds like Jones $$ is the problem then ifhe is so dependent on an expensive RB.
You don't throw good money after bad just to cover the 1st mistake.
In your scenario, you fix the QB problem and get someone who doesn't need an elite RB.
Can't pay elite money to both QB and RB at the same time.
That's literally what happened with Kenny Golloday.
Everyone else was only offering a 1 year cheap prove it deal.
Respectfully disagree. He could earn more by signing a lesser contract as long as he gets more of it guaranteed.
This where I disagree...if he plays and says with Giants- he is getting $10 mil and keep his endorsements. Next year, same thing happens and maybe the tag is now 11 mil...
If he sits a year and wants to come back- zero, zip, milch chance a team signs him for more than 3 years max and most likely either 1 or 2 years. And those will be less than 10mil per year and certainly not 20 mil guarantied.
And, if he plays the 2 tag years and plays worth the money or better- he would get a better contract than he would by sitting out this year.
Math just does not add up for a career that has very limited years.
This^^^
Some of these QB's have to realize, winning is more important than a few extra million in salary. Brady is the best of all time because he was the smartest of all time. He took less in salary knowing if he surrounded himself with good players the chip and dip commercial revenue would blow away that lost revenue and lengthen his career. Just like I blame Eli for his own demise. He wanted to be one of the highest paid players and it cost him the end of his career as the team was constantly cash strapped.
Pitt also had a line! The fact that Saquon had 2k all purpose yards his rookie year playing behind that line with Eli at QB was one of the greatest single season performances of the last decade. Now I don't think he's the same and unfortunately for RB's there's just not a big market for them.
You wanna know who'se really gonna get screwed? Pacheco... That dudes playing on a 7th round rookie deal, cannot renegotiate for another 2 after this, by the time his rookie deal is up he'll be 28 and earned a little under $4 million total. Still a nice chunk but it's nothing compared to the league and the kind of impact he's had.
Meanwhile 36 year old Chase Daniel, who has started 5 games TOTAL in his entire career was paid $4.3 million per season to be the backup QB for the Lions from 2020-2022. Daniel has made over $56 Million in his NFL career and has started 5 games... Yea there's something broken here
Hey don't forget Ryan Dunleavy explained his decision with the now infamous "Not sure where Barkley would fit in with this loaded RU Backfield" tweet!So in essence Barkley is de-committing from the Giants. Seems like a habit for the guy.I am joking but i still have not forgiven him for leaving us for Pedd St.
You asked the wrong person. I dont believe any of these players should be paid in the tens of millions of dollars for moving a football down field or throwing a ball through a hoop. So my thought process says the majority of these players are overpaid. Plenty of people always say they market will determine what a player is worth. Now the market does not want to fork over the money for SB. The market is speaking.
Look at Bell’s contract with the Jets. He got 27mm guaranteed. That’s the only number that matters in NFL.
Not really my question. It was more about being paid compared to your colleagues. Team owners are billionaires but players are overpaid? Your point about the market not willing to pay SB is also wrong. If he is a FA, he would get his number maybe more. It’s just the Giants that won’t pay him more because they ca use the franchise tag.
Jones got paid market value. Barkley was offered over market value. Not sure what one has to do with the other. Barkley should’ve been a safety or LB and he wouldn’t have this issue. He wanted to be a RB. It wasn’t a smart move for a great athlete who wanted to get paid high dollars for a long career.
Giants know that when they’re ready to win Barkley will be gone. Great to have him for next year or so but he’s not in the plans for 2025+ when Giants think they’ll finally be ready to really win. They have a smart GM and HC.
Giants know that when they’re ready to win Barkley will be gone. Great to have him for next year or so but he’s not in the plans for 2025+ when Giants think they’ll finally be ready to really win. They have a smart GM and HC.
KC wins SB with RB on rookie deal
Rams win SB with RB on rookie deal
TB wins SB with aged vet making average money
KC wins SB with journeyman RB
Philly wins SB with aged vet making average money
Meanwhile, Elliot, CMac and Gurley all got big second deals, which didn’t work out.
Forget comparing positions. There’s a reason that RBs don’t get paid more.
Yup - think its called reading the room...
I like the guy but if he sits out losing 10 million bucks - he is never getting back.
Moron
I like the guy but if he sits out losing 10 million bucks - he is never getting back.
Moron
Le’Veon Bell apologizes to Steelers fans for leaving Pittsburgh
In four of those SBs, the winning QB was one of the best in the league, if not of all time.
And to call Leonard Fournette an aged vet is just nowhere near the truth.
Here's the issue for the Giants: They aren't lining Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Hurts, or Herbert up behind center. It's Daniel Jones. And the evidence is clear that he performs much better with Saquon in the backfield than without him. The reason is equally clear: Saquon is a threat that defenses have to scheme for. You don't have to scheme for Matt Breida.
Maybe the Giants have a plan. I hope so. I've been a fan for almost half a century. I hold out hope that they will somehow make a deal with Saquon. Without him, hard to see them over .500.
Fournette was a top draft choice and released by Jags before he even got into his fourth season. He signed with TB for little money after the season already started. If you don’t like the word “aged” that’s fine but teams weren’t jumping to get him. Moreover, if you think he was really good it further proves my point that you can get solid RBs off the scrap heap for reasonable money just about any time you want in the NFL.
I get it — many Giants fans think Jones isn’t as valuable as Barkley. That is very likely true but it doesn’t matter because it’s all about supply and demand. There are no QBs and there are a lot of RBs.
According to some here, he wouldnt get what he wants because the RB position does not command it. McCaffrey got a stupidly rich contract from the Panthers so I suppose you are right and some other team could do the same for SB. As far as the owners go, how many people look at the salary of an owner, CEO, CFO, etc. of a company, and march into the HR office to demand a higher salary? But in sports it's ok for many who are very handsomely paid to do so? Professional sports salaries have gotten way out of hand in my opinion. And in case you are wondering, the billionaire owners are making too much as well. The net result are fans get hammered with higher ticket, food and beverage prices....
Easy there professor. In my experience when someone resorts to personal inults during a debate it generally speaks to their own insecurity about the soundness of there own argument/logic.
If you want to keep things purely logical, I'm game. But you appear to be falling into the trap of mixing logic, emotion and opinion into your argument as well.
Lets start with where the Giants stand as a current franchise. They initiated a management change, strip down rebuild last year......but greatly exceeded expectations....albeit with a fairly weak NFL schedule. Their win projections for 2023 season stand at 7.5 against a very difficult schedule. They are a very young team with a still relatively unknown commodity at QB who they resigned to a $160m contract which will mostly load against the cap in the first 3 years. They signed Jones likely because his advanced stats in terms of efficiency, reads and running ability tell a much different story about what he is as a QB....also likely because cap situation limitation and their ability to get creative with his contract to the cap management - especially this year.
On to SB. He's going into his 6th year and 2nd contract industry where RBs average about 4 years and do not likely live up to high salaried 2nd contracts. He has missed over 25% of his career games due to injury but still retains an extemely high usage rate with over 1200 career touches. His salary demands would have put him in the top 5 RBs career earnings of ALL TIME. Even with his franchise tag salary, he will move into the top 15 of all time earnings at RB.
So...the question is....
From a logical perspective, if you were in Joe Schoen's position. Would you:
1) Stick to your negotiation limit.....accounting for the team rebuild, schedule and projected positioning as well as cap management over multiple years.... also knowing you had the one franchise tag leverage as insurance.
......OR..
2) Resign Barkley to the multi-year deal he was seeking @ about $14M per season guaranteed for 2 years as he likely has already reached his peak and likely will be starting decline during this contract extension.
To me its not just about this year. Its about building a long term franchise. If you are being honest with the situation, it is unlikely that Barkley will be part of that longer term beyond this season. Even if the parties agreed to sign for multiple seasons, his injury downtime potential would be pretty high based on wear and tear, high usage and previous injury history. So like it or not, likely get ready for what the rest of the NFL is doing. Rotating a group of RBs with different looks and in different schemes to mix things up and keep the defense guessing.
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Only on paper. He earned a little more than half of that before getting cut and taking a league minimum deal with the Chiefs. Everyone also remembers how he was terrible with the Jets after sitting out a year.
When the Giants start out 2-3, 1-4 or 0-5 without Saquan they’re going to find out how undervalued Saquan is to the Giant offense and how overvalued Daniel Jones is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if DJ has offered to give $3MM of his own money just to have SB out on the field.
GO RU
I wouldn’t be surprised if DJ has offered to give $3MM of his own money just to have SB out on the field.
GO RU
And he's an example of why teams won't be that stupid again. The Jets paid handsomely for dogshit. You're using it as a prime example of what could happen, when it's an example of why it won't happen again.
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A bird in the hand as they say.
The people advising Barkley are not helping him in any way. Sitting out a season would be epically stupid.
You answered your own question as to why the Jints were unsuccessful in Eli's later years. Doesn't make him less valuable.
I don’t think the Giants disagree. Of course SB is more valuable for 2024. It doesn’t change the calculus though. Right now Jones is #8 for salary/cap hit purposes at his position. He will be 11-13 after next offseason. Is he a top 12 QB? Not sure but it’s not egregious. Barkley turned down money that would’ve made him a top 3 RB. It was a fair offer.
I think it’s an example why FA shouldn’t sign with the Jets. I totally understand why Rogers dragged it out.
We can all agree he is not top 8. It’s difficult to argue he is top 13.
Someone will do it, there's always a sucker. Give it 6 months and wait for Jerry Jones to call!