My neighborhood softball team. Just shell out that much and he probably won’t hustle anyways.
OT: Baseball Free Agents
- Thread starter Hungry Jack
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My neighborhood softball team. Just shell out that much and he probably won’t hustle anyways.
Corbi meant any ballclub that isn't a complete joke that the White Sux are.
BTW, I think it bears considering that most NU alums are Cubs fans while most Sox fans are also Illini and Notre Dame fans. Coincidence? I think not.
Chicagocatfan24, what are your thoughts on Hahn’s latest first rounder, Nick Madrigal? Even if all goes well, is a good hitting, no power, 2nd base only infielder worth a top 5 pick? Do you think he turns out to be a better major leaguer than Theo’s first rounder, SS Nico Hoerner?
I personally didn't like the pick at all. He will have to hit like .330 and steal 40+ bases to see the true value you'd want out of the 4th pick. His swing won't allow him to tap into any power at all. He's a high ceiling, low floor guy. Should be a long time big leaguer even if it's at a utility guy, but never a star. That said, I'm giving his pro debut numbers from last year the benefit of the doubt, as he was probably mentally drained from the CWS run and then playing at 3 different MiLB levels immediately after he signed. I hope he proves me very wrong this year. FWIW, a few Mariners people who saw him play extensively say he will be a stud, so I hope I'm wrong.
I haven't watched Hoerner at all but solely based on Theo's history I'd guess he would be a perfect depth/high floor guy like a Happ. That's a wild guess though and I could be completely wrong.
My dying wish is that the Sox someway, somehow can land Adley Rutledge at 3 this June. Switch hitting catcher with power from both sides, a great eye, low K rate, and a stud defensively. As of now though it looks like he'll go 1-1 unfortunately
And by "high ceiling, low floor" I obviously meant "high floor, low ceiling"
Okay I guess I'll stop rooting for NU then. See you guys later, gonna go root for the Irish
I agree with you on Madrigal. You don’t draft a guy at 4 who has even a remote chance of becoming a utility player. It’s early but this looking like another questionable first round pick by Hahn.
Regarding Hoerner, you should take a closer look. I think the early buzz about him is a reflection of him having much more upside than originally contemplated. The early reviews suggest he may very well stick at short and that he could have much more power(20+ HR power) upside than anticipated. I would not be surprised if he ends up being a starter at short or second for the Cubs as early as 2020.
Just watched these videos. Obviously only a few at bats but here's what sticks out to me right off the bat
PROS
-Really nice balance and body control
-Good frame, but more or less physically maxed out which is the case with most college guys. Would imagine he won't add much weight so he should stick at short, which is very important for his future value
- no excess movement in his swing. Very simple and compact. I'd guess he makes a ton of contact
CONS
- LONG swing when coming through the zone. Swing plane is good, but due to the swing's length it will result in weak contact to the right side
- not a ton of leg or back hip drive. He should have the body control/coordination to add a lot more leg drive that's synced up with a higher leg kick. His current swing will result in a lot of doubles and not a ton of HRs at all. BUT that can and will be tweaked as he develops.
Obviously I'd want to see him play and it's really hard to judge a baseball player on a couple youtube videos, but for all intents and purposes I'd say he's a high floor/low-ish ceiling guy. Someone that should excel with a loaded lineup around him, but not ever be the guy that carries a lineup. Could probably play any OF or IF position as well. Ian Happ without the power, but a better all around defender.
Yeah, pulling this one out of his rear end. Almost comical if he really believes it.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement. I haven’t seen Ian Happ even hold a full time gig yet.
Ian Happ is a good player. He hasn't had a "full time" gig because the Cubs have been trying to squeeze like 28 capable players onto a 25 man roster. They've used him well thus far considering their roster construction. 4-500 at bats and move him all around the field depending on the day.
Completely disagree. Guys that can hit over 300, almost never strike out and have gold glove capability will be extremely valuable. This kid will be in the Bigs for good no later than next year (barring injury). He is exactly what a young team with power, but high K rate guys needs in the lineup. He will set the table for Jimenez, Robert, Moncada et al. No way I see this guy as a utility player and my bet he is considerably better than Horner.
From what I have seen and read, the Cubs have tweaked his swing and added a subtle bat wrap that immediately translated into more power in the minors and AFL. Translate that over the course of a full season, and this guy could be a 20HR hitter. If you want to use Happ as a reference point, I see a higher contact hitter, with similar power, and better defense at a premium position. Watching Madrigal and Hoerner this season as they work their way around the minors will be very interesting.
I am not saying he shouldn’t start, but Theo has that ridiculous Hayward contract to deal with and no way he is sitting. I just think Happ is a good player not a game changer. I personally have always liked Addy as a player, but he needs a fresh start and he has regressed. Javy at short, Happ at 2nd ( I know he is not Sandburg in the field) and Almora in Center. Zo can get some starts in RF and at 2B, but Imo Joe needs to stop tinkering so much.
Getting a "good" player in the first round is a positive outcome, a very positive outcome. Let's look at the 2013 draft, for instance, which for any players who made it to the bigs within a year or two means that they're approaching the end of their club control years. Here's the first round, before getting into all the compensatory sandwich pick (sorry for the formatting):
1 Mark Appel Houston Astros Right-handed pitcher
2 Kris Bryant Chicago Cubs Third baseman
3 Jon Gray Colorado Rockies Right-handed pitcher
4 Kohl Stewart Minnesota Twins Right-handed pitcher
5 Clint Frazier Cleveland Indians Outfielder
6 Colin Moran Miami Marlins Third baseman
7 Trey Ball Boston Red Sox Left-handed pitcher
8 Hunter Dozier Kansas City Royals Shortstop
9 Austin Meadows Pittsburgh Pirates[Compensation 1] Outfielder
10 Phillip Bickford* Toronto Blue Jays Right-handed pitcher
11 Dominic Smith New York Mets First baseman
12 D. J. Peterson Seattle Mariners Third baseman
13 Hunter Renfroe San Diego Padres Outfielder
14 Reese McGuire Pittsburgh Pirates Catcher
15 Braden Shipley Arizona Diamondbacks Right-handed pitcher
16 J. P. Crawford Philadelphia Phillies Shortstop
17 Tim Anderson Chicago White Sox Shortstop
18 Chris Anderson Los Angeles Dodgers Right-handed pitcher
19 Marco Gonzales St. Louis Cardinals Left-handed pitcher
20 Jonathon Crawford Detroit Tigers Right-handed pitcher
21 Nick Ciuffo Tampa Bay Rays Catcher
22 Hunter Harvey Baltimore Orioles Right-handed pitcher
23 Alex Gonzalez Texas Rangers Right-handed pitcher
24 Billy McKinney Oakland Athletics Outfielder
25 Christian Arroyo San Francisco Giants Shortstop
26 Eric Jagielo New York Yankees Third baseman
27 Phillip Ervin Cincinnati Reds Outfielder
For those counting, you have:
1 All-Star (Bryant)
4 everyday players/SP in a rotation (Gray, Renfroe, T. Anderson, Gonzales)
These five above are the only ones who have accumulated more than 1 WAR so far in their careers.
6 reserves/middle relievers more than a random September call-up (Moran, Smith I guess, Dozier, McKinney, Arroyo, Ervin)
8 still legit (some charitably) prospects (Meadows, Stewart, Frazier, Bickford, McGuire, JP Crawford, Ciuffo, Harvey)
8 busts who made it to the majors and didn't stick (Shipley, Gonzalez) or who never made it at all (Appel, Ball, Peterson, C. Anderson, Jo. Crawford, Jagielo)
To further illustrate how much of a crapshoot this is, the 12 compensatory picks who followed this bunch include Aaron Judge, Sean Manaea, Corey Knebel, Michael Lorenzen, and Ryne Stanek, all of whom have accumulated more than 1 WAR so far in their careers - most of them plenty more than that.
All of which is to say, if you get Ian Happ, you did well. If Nick Madrigal turns into Ray Durham, you did very well. Since Madrigal was playing in the minors after a freshly broken wrist in February, the low power numbers in a small sample size don't bother me at all. He's a 60 hitter, a plus plus runner, and all the scouts agree he can play Gold Glove-level defense at 2B.
I bet Houston wishes they could redo Appel over Bryant. So maybe Madrigal's not a Bryant-level superstar out of a top-4 pick, but a productive, homegrown starter is a positive outcome.
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I am not saying Madrigal won't be a solid major leaguer, he may very well be. I just don't think he represented very good value and upside at #4, particularly when you look at Hoerner going at 24. I'll happily make a friendly bet that Hoerner turns out to be a better player than Madrigal. What Hoerner showed in the AFL coming off of a long injury induced layoff was damn impressive. I think you'll feel differently about him as a prospect by the end of this coming season.
https://www.mlb.com/news/arizona-fall-league-2018-breakout-prospects/c-300895780?tid=153494546
Then the Sox and 20 other GMs missed it. Fire them all.
Hey, what do you think about out front office, scouting and development ranks?
I love this bet. Can we start a baseball board?
Madrigal has a much, much shorter swing that should induce much more consistent hard contact.
If Hoerner tweaks a few things he has the higher ceiling. This will be fun to watch the next year or two
As a Sox fan I'll put money on Madrigal just because, if you'd like to take it
Madrigal has a much, much shorter swing that should induce much more consistent hard contact.
If Hoerner tweaks a few things he has the higher ceiling. This will be fun to watch the next year or two
As a Sox fan I'll put money on Madrigal just because, if you'd like to take it
You talking to Corb? If so, I beat you too it. The Sox have a lot of excellent young prospects.
Ok. How are we defining the bet? This upcoming season? Quickest to the majors?
Thanks for understanding. It really would be for the best for all those involved. It's like cats and dogs. Somethings just aren't meant to go together. No hard feelings.
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Looking at that list tells me that Kyler Murray without a doubt should pick football.
Favorite guy that's not Eloy, Cease or Kopech is Luis Basabe. Guy has every single tool, if he learns to make more contact he could be a 20/20 guy or better.
Let’s say MLB stats 3 seasons from now. I know we’ll probably forget about this, but even that is a short term bet.
I think you're underestimating the power of pettiness in "winning" a meaningless internet bet.
You mean the White Sox? I am not too high on the job Hahn has done although the jury is not fully back on this yet. I think Theo Epstein has shown that if you truly want to rebuild your minor league organization, there are no shortcuts and you have to make a long term commitment that requires significant resources and personnel focused on talent identification and talent development. The early returns on Hahn's organization when you look at his draft record, his international signings, his trades and most importantly when you look at the job they have done of developing the talent once it gets to the organization is lukewarm at best.
He absolutely would have if he didn't get hurt last year, still wouldn't be shocked if he did though but it's more up in the air now. He's their low risk/ high reward guy. Assuming he stays healthy he should be a solid back end guy. Pounds the strike zone with 3 pitches
No Luis Roberts? What about Collins, Berger and some of Hahn’s other high first round picks? Fernando Tatis sure would look good in a Sox uniform right now. That was a horrible trade on so many levels.
if Roberts were American he'd be playing WR at Bama or something right now. He's a physical FREAK of nature. Sky is the limit on him. He dominated the AFL this fall too
Collins value is tied to him catching or not, and everything I've been told says it's a much better probability that he'll stick there now than when he was drafted. If he hits .230/.380 with 25 bombs from the catcher position, that's a really nice player.
Burger we'll find out. *If* he gets healthy then he should be a low ceiling, high-isn floor guy. I've talked to him 100 times. Just an awesome kid all around and incredibly intelligent. Very cerebral
And yes the Tatis trade is one of the worst trades of all time in any sport. Just unbelievably bad
That’s what I have also heard about roberts, that’s why I was surprised you didn’t list him in the post I was responding to.