I think it does need to be higher than ICE because the EV range can decrease by 20% in cold weather or cruising at 80 mph.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
If people don’t like to take road trips, then the need to 600 mile range isn’t really there. If they do like to take long road trips, but also like to take long breaks in the midst of the drive, then 600 mile range isn’t needed.
But if people like taking long road trips, don’t want to drive slowly, and/or do want to tow stuff and/or haul a bunch of heavy equipment and/or drive in sub-freezing weather, and/or hate the idea of stopping mid-trip to wait in a slow-moving line for a public charger with a half dozen other cars, each of which wants to fully charge for the next leg of their trip, then a 600 mile range is necessary.
nope i don't but range anxiety is the main reason people don't go electric. Second is cost factor
I would say a vast majority of people are those stated in your first paragraph. Give me a 600 mile range and I'd just have to charge up every 2 weeks or so at a supercharger. Or, I could charge up every night at home, using an outlet on the side of the house, that I use to plug in a leaf blower, to replenish the battery power I used up that day.
If I did a 600 mile trip and drove at 75 mph I know I'd gladly take 1 or 2 breaks long enough to charge up on a supercharger while I stretched my legs and visit the restroom. I'm not doing 8 hrs of straight driving.
Right. Most people fit the first category.
I fit the second category. I hate stopping when doing road trips unless the stop is planned. And my planned stops don't include waiting near my car for hours while a line of people ahead of me fully charge their cars for the next leg of their road trip.
The good news is there will be lots more chargers soon, batteries will improve and get lighter and more temperature resistant, and range will increase. Just not there yet.
Speaking of faster charging, this battery tech is interesting: https://www.motor1.com/news/671823/nyobolt-six-minute-charge-ev-concept/
Nyobolt is not exactly a well-known name, but it's been collabing with some established British players, including Williams Advanced Engineering, Callum and Triumph, so it must be doing something right. Supposedly will have battery tech ready to manufacture next year ...believe when you see it.
Tesla Bots will probably dismiss it because they think the concept car is a copy of the original Roadster
Nyobolt is not exactly a well-known name, but it's been collabing with some established British players, including Williams Advanced Engineering, Callum and Triumph, so it must be doing something right. Supposedly will have battery tech ready to manufacture next year ...believe when you see it.
Tesla Bots will probably dismiss it because they think the concept car is a copy of the original Roadster
Knowing that you want to be scrupulously accurate in all matters, I assume you will want to acknowledge in the future that your above sentence in no way describes the Tesla experience.
In the past two years I have taken ten of what I would call 'road trips' from Asheville, NC. The destinations were Charleston, New England, Nashville, Columbus twice, Cincinnati, Detroit, Austin, Orlando, and Denver. Virtually all this driving (actually Auto Pilot did most of the driving, which allowed me to drive much, much further and arrive much more relaxed) was on Interstates at speeds of 65-80 mph, regardless of temperature. Tesla Navigation plans the route, Super Charger stops and their current usage, and provides estimated charging time.
I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait for a charger, and only once much past 5 minutes. Also, given the physics involved, you generally only charge to 80%, which takes approximately 20 minutes (during which time I relieve my 76 old bladder and catch up on the days events via the car's YouTube connection).
One person's experience. You're welcome.
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Jim Farley recently stated what I've been saying for 3 years. I guess he has no credibility either. I guessing you didn't listen to the full interview. He's the only CEO with the balls to say it publicly, but they all know they're in deep ****.
As for Toyota, being the largest manufacturer of ICE vehicles isn't a strength in a business that's rapidly pivoting. It's an anchor. The bigger the ship, the more difficult it is to change course. And make a key acquisition? Who?
Speaking of faster charging, this battery tech is interesting: https://www.motor1.com/news/671823/nyobolt-six-minute-charge-ev-concept/
Nyobolt is not exactly a well-known name, but it's been collabing with some established British players, including Williams Advanced Engineering, Callum and Triumph, so it must be doing something right. Supposedly will have battery tech ready to manufacture next year ...believe when you see it.
Tesla Bots will probably dismiss it because they think the concept car is a copy of the original Roadster
I dismiss it because it is a concept car, though I promise to pay much closer attention when they move to mass market production.
Speaking of Roadster comparisons:
?
That looks nothing like the Elise and is, in fact, directly derived from a much older (and awesome, imo) Mercedes concept, probably it most famous.
Knowing that you want to be scrupulously accurate in all matters, I assume you will want to acknowledge in the future that your above sentence in no way describes the Tesla experience.
In the past two years I have taken ten of what I would call 'road trips' from Asheville, NC. The destinations were Charleston, New England, Nashville, Columbus twice, Cincinnati, Detroit, Austin, Orlando, and Denver. Virtually all this driving (actually Auto Pilot did most of the driving, which allowed me to drive much, much further and arrive much more relaxed) was on Interstates at speeds of 65-80 mph, regardless of temperature. Tesla Navigation plans the route, Super Charger stops and their current usage, and provides estimated charging time.
I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait for a charger, and only once much past 5 minutes. Also, given the physics involved, you generally only charge to 80%, which takes approximately 20 minutes (during which time I relieve my 76 old bladder and catch up on the days events via the car's YouTube connection).
One person's experience. You're welcome.
This does not describe Mildone even a little bit. He likes to start arguments in empty rooms and will throw **** against the wall to see if sticks not just once or twice, but repeats dumb talk points dozens of times. Case in point - this thread.
BTW, for long fueling lines try any Costco. I have no idea why people wait five and ten deep to fill up their gas tanks.
Tell ya what.
Since you're ridiculous, I'll make you a wager.
Pick one of the following:
- GM
- Ford
- Toyota
If it doesn't, then you pay me $1000.00.
Put your money where your mouth is, or shut it.
I agree. Just an attempt at sarcasm.
Ford Blue is the new name for the ICE division of the company.
If there are no more ICEs in their product lineup then full electrification would have been a success.
I mean, that's cool for you and all, but not the way some of us road trip, even without getting into towing trailers, traveling remote roadways. Extreme weather, etc.Knowing that you want to be scrupulously accurate in all matters, I assume you will want to acknowledge in the future that your above sentence in no way describes the Tesla experience.
In the past two years I have taken ten of what I would call 'road trips' from Asheville, NC. The destinations were Charleston, New England, Nashville, Columbus twice, Cincinnati, Detroit, Austin, Orlando, and Denver. Virtually all this driving (actually Auto Pilot did most of the driving, which allowed me to drive much, much further and arrive much more relaxed) was on Interstates at speeds of 65-80 mph, regardless of temperature. Tesla Navigation plans the route, Super Charger stops and their current usage, and provides estimated charging time.
I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait for a charger, and only once much past 5 minutes. Also, given the physics involved, you generally only charge to 80%, which takes approximately 20 minutes (during which time I relieve my 76 old bladder and catch up on the days events via the car's YouTube connection).
One person's experience. You're welcome.
Who's Toyota gonna aquire? Answer that and we'll talk turkey
The most important fact that came out of the Farley interview is he confirmed what many of us have been saying - building a competitive EV is a completely different technology then building an ICE vehicle. Toyota is not building EV's because they cant right now. The question is will they be able to in time to survive - that is not certain - but if I were a Toyota stockholder I would be growing increasingly nervous.
Sure, it's great when there aren't yet that many EVs on the road.Knowing that you want to be scrupulously accurate in all matters, I assume you will want to acknowledge in the future that your above sentence in no way describes the Tesla experience.
In the past two years I have taken ten of what I would call 'road trips' from Asheville, NC. The destinations were Charleston, New England, Nashville, Columbus twice, Cincinnati, Detroit, Austin, Orlando, and Denver. Virtually all this driving (actually Auto Pilot did most of the driving, which allowed me to drive much, much further and arrive much more relaxed) was on Interstates at speeds of 65-80 mph, regardless of temperature. Tesla Navigation plans the route, Super Charger stops and their current usage, and provides estimated charging time.
I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait for a charger, and only once much past 5 minutes. Also, given the physics involved, you generally only charge to 80%, which takes approximately 20 minutes (during which time I relieve my 76 old bladder and catch up on the days events via the car's YouTube connection).
One person's experience. You're welcome.
The question is if, as the EV adoption rate increases, will public charger availability along interstates keep up? Maybe. It's the plan (I read the current admin wants 500,000). But we'll have to wait and see.
Right in this thread, today, there's a cutting edge vehicle from legacy auto that wouldn't be possible without an acquisition.
You think that's unique?
LOL. You're like a windup butthurt toy. You're not gonna cry, are you?
Not at all. Happens a lot.
We're talking about profitable, volume production of EVs. Who on earth could Toyota possibly aquire to make that happen? Maybe Apple? I read they have the next Tesla killer....of wait, that was 5 years ago. Pretty sure my friend was just pulling something out of his ***, but I want to make sure I don't make a sucker bet.
LOL. You're like a windup butthurt toy. You're not gonna cry, are you?
When the only reply is an hominem attack ...
Earlier discussion had me wondering about how many cars there are on the road vs the number of public charging stations.
According to the data at the two links down below, there are about 286M vehicles on the road and about 138K public charging outlets. Of course, EVs today only make up an estimated 7% of market share. While not an ideal way of computing it, 7% of 286M is roughly $20M.
So there are about 138K chargers for about 20M EVs today, putting the percentage of chargers to EVs at 0.69%. At some point, all the cars on the road might be EVs. Using the same rate of chargers to EVs we have today, that would mean we'd need just under 2M public chargers, although I suspect the number will have to be a lot higher than that because we have to accomodate all the folks w/no way of charging at home.
So... if we want to keep EV adoption going strong, we better get to work building out a lot more charging stations. I read that the Biden admin wants to build out 500K. Which is nice. But we're gonna need a lot more than that.
According to the data at the two links down below, there are about 286M vehicles on the road and about 138K public charging outlets. Of course, EVs today only make up an estimated 7% of market share. While not an ideal way of computing it, 7% of 286M is roughly $20M.
So there are about 138K chargers for about 20M EVs today, putting the percentage of chargers to EVs at 0.69%. At some point, all the cars on the road might be EVs. Using the same rate of chargers to EVs we have today, that would mean we'd need just under 2M public chargers, although I suspect the number will have to be a lot higher than that because we have to accomodate all the folks w/no way of charging at home.
So... if we want to keep EV adoption going strong, we better get to work building out a lot more charging stations. I read that the Biden admin wants to build out 500K. Which is nice. But we're gonna need a lot more than that.
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Ah, so it seems that you ARE gonna cry after all.
"This does not describe Mildone even a little bit. He likes to start arguments in empty rooms and will throw **** against the wall to see if sticks not just once or twice, but repeats dumb talk points dozens of times."
- WhichReligionIsRight
So. You were saying something about ad hominem attacks?
So Tesla has to give stuff away to get people to keep buying Model 3s?
Flawed assumptions. There are not 20 million EVs on the road today. Your assumptions on how many chargers are needed is totally speculative and not supported by facts.
Everything anybody says about the future is speculative, Captain Obvious.
And I already stated that using market share wasn’t an ideal to compute The number of EVs on the roads. I also used language that clearly expresses the inexactness of the numbers. They’re merely intended to be illustrative of a concept.
If there are less than 20M EVs, then that just means we’ll probably need even more than 2M public chargers to match the ratio we have today. You’re providing support for the point I have been making.
This guys aren’t saying much new about range, except the one guy who thinks after 5-8 years, ranges will drop. Which is an interesting theory, but I’m skeptical. I think that will be much more likely in 20 years, but unlikely before then.
Your concept isn't valid. You posted flawed assumptions to support a flawed thesis.
This is proving to be a hilariously ironic quote from you
:"He likes to start arguments in empty rooms and will throw **** against the wall to see if sticks…"