OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
You keep quoting the prices are for standard range stripped down work trucks - Even a moderately equipped XLT version with basic stuff like power seats etc will msrp closer to 60k plus tax and fees. The long range versions (which most will need especially having to rely upon the horrible electrify america network) will set you back over 70k. Forget those low balled starting prices for any ford truck
Would anyone be leary of taking a 2022 F150 Lightning because of the following from the above article?
"Of course, the biggest software change of all will come when Ford’s collaboration with Google on an entirely new Android-based Sync infotainment stack that has Google Maps and other services arrives next year. Ford has said “millions” of vehicles will run this new version of Sync by 2023, but Farley says it’s running behind schedule by “months.”
...
Current Ford vehicles will not be upgradable to the new Android-based Sync — which means these first Lightnings off the line will have Ford’s existing Sync 4 system, while 2023 Lightnings that ship next year will have the new Android-based Sync, a potential silver lining for impatient preorder buyers."
"Unlike Android Auto, Android Automotive integration is an actual operating system that automakers can customize for their vehicles. Instead of having to develop operating systems from the ground up, Android Automotive is a platform with built-in features, like Google maps and Google Voice Assistant. The first vehicle on the market with Android Automotive Integration was the all-electric Polestar 2. The operating system has also migrated to some vehicles from Stellantis and General Motors."
Heaven is not wrong. There is a $20,000 non plug in hybrid pick up truck available with cloth seats, no power seats, etc. Some people are fine with basic transportation and no frills. They just want a vehicle with a bed that does not cost north of $25K or $30K. The basic Maverick Hybrid offers that.
I agree with you - but very very few trucks or cars are ever sold in their entry level configurations.
Tesla fans are getting upset. Just do the “potential savings” price like Tesla.
Quoting myself, not sure I would like full Google integration. While not impacting me, wonder how well it will work with Iphones?
First, I prefer Waze over Google maps, even though they are both owned by Google. Waze integrates just fine with the Sync system.
Second, I really don't care about having the Google Play Store and access to third party apps directly on my Sync system. I can load what I want right now with the current Sync System, and I don't want my car system to be full of mobile phone apps.
"In addition to third-party apps, Ford’s new Android operating system will contain a number of Google apps as well, including using Google Maps as its main navigation system and Google Assistant for voice commands. The Google Play Store will provide easy access to a wide array of other Google and third-party apps, too."
The $20,000 entry level hybrid Maverick includes automatic, air conditioning, AM/FM radio, and some kind of video screen that you can listen to your cell phone radio through and use map directions ( not sure if I will bother even trying to figure out how to use them.) Only option I am getting is a drop in bedliner. I don’t need heated seats, heated steering wheels, I want to use a real key, and as much as I like her voice don’t want to pay hundreds of dollars to hear Demi Moore say “I’m ready when you are big boy” every time I start to drive.
Total Q1 vehicle sales:
GM 1.4 million
Ford 966 k
Tesla 310 k
Total Q1 net income
GM $2.9B
Ford $3.1B
Tesla $3.3B
These #s should be eye opening. The way things are going, Tesla's bottom line income will be greater than Ford and GM combined sometime in 2023. So, is Tesla overvalued? I guess you have to ask yourself: Does the EV revolution maintain its momentum through the decade and beyond? Who is best positioned for rapid growth to meet that demand? And keep in mind, we are yet to see if any other auto maker can produce profitable EVs at scale.
Another factor to consider: Tesla has plenty of growth potential in other sectors that traditional autos do not. Energy generation, energy storage, artificial intelligence, robotics, insurance, + future products. These areas have HUGE growth potential.
What's your point?
We get it. You are in love with Tesla and think it has a great future. You think all other automakers suck. Seriously, how many different times and ways are you going to kiss and tell in public like this?
At some point, all these worshipful posts become spammy and obsessive. And you're way beyond that point.
I answered a question with data, leaving the question open to interpretation. What's the point of your hissy fit?
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Odd tweet. This guy is hardly an expert on EVs, let alone the automotive industry.
He just likes to argue. As he's been losing so badly, the goal-posting moving retreat is littered with personal insults.
BTW, apologies for this post. This is about to unleash yet another a series of posts on the Ford Maverick hybrid with amazement for the newfangled thingy that connects the truck to your smart phone, the requirment for 600 mile range before EVs go mainstream, and the general faux outrage about all things EV, Tesla and most especially Elon.
I have an objective (truly not a smartass) question. Based on those unit sales, could one conclude: (1) GM and Ford are horribly inefficient and should be a LOT more profitable (maybe they are investing deeply in EVs for future profits); (2) Tesla is far too profitable and should lower the cost of its vehicles so they are more accessible to middle to low income people? There has to be something more to the equation? Because if you divide $3.3B by 310,000, that is $10,645.16 per vehicle sold. For Ford, they are making $3,209.11 per vehicle sold, and GM it's $2,071 per vehicle.
Perhaps Tesla makes revenue from sales of something other than cars?
But it is a common topic. Tesla's valuation vs other autos.
I think it's flawed comparison for the reasons I stated + the rate of growth of Tesla vs others.
There are a number of reasons, but I'll start with just one: Dealerships.
If this doesn’t prove electric cars are starting to catch on, nothing will—
1. The auto industry has always operated on razor thin margins. Ford, GM, and Tesla are all investing deeply for the EV future. Ford and GM are spending more, but not getting more based on their future factory and battery fab projections, so your point about inefficiency seems correct. Tesla's long term competitive advantage will be manufacturing. They're really, really good at it.
2. I think this is business 101. The open market dictates the price of the product and Tesla is a publicly traded company beholden to shareholders. Tesla is sitting on a mountain of cash ($17B) vs only $88million in debt. The business model since inception has been to use the profits from current models to lower the cost of future models. The original roadster funded the S and X. The S and X funded the 3 and Y. Costs declining at each step. A $25k model was announced at Battery Day (~2 yr ago), but has been tabled, with priority given to development of an autonomous robotaxi. More EV miles driven > more EVs on the road seems to be the priority with a significantly lower cost of transportation. There has been a long standing rumor that Tesla will stop selling vehicles once autonomy is cracked. Current model 3 leases do not have the option to buy the vehicle. Telling...
Currently, Tesla is only profitable from autos. Solar and energy storage have been stagnant, but limited by supply chain. Tesla give priority to autos when it comes to chips and batteries. Solar roof has been a mess. Energy storage is going to be big once supply issues cease and their new megapack factory is full go. Insurance is in its infancy, but expanding. FSD still in beta and humanoid robot (AI) in development.
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What ever happened to the idea of hydrogen fuel cells in vehicles?
While I'm sure there are some engineering hurdles to overcome, this seems conceptually far superior to relying on batteries. My bet is for this technology in the long term, and much of the drive train engineering for electric vehicles may be easily adapted for this power source.
While I'm sure there are some engineering hurdles to overcome, this seems conceptually far superior to relying on batteries. My bet is for this technology in the long term, and much of the drive train engineering for electric vehicles may be easily adapted for this power source.
I tried looking it up, but fell down a rabbit hole. Someone made a comment to me that they did not like Musk because he did not pay any taxes (it was not Liz Warren!). I replied that I was fairly sure he paid some taxes, and perhaps it would be more accurate to say he does not pay his "fair share," but would have to research. If you would rather not get into, I understand, but was just wondering if you knew the story on taxes. These discussions/arguments are usually full of slipper slopes, and from my perspective, I have no issue with a businessperson taking full advantage of tax laws to avoid taxes in certain years.
I looked into a Hydrogen vehicle before purchasing an EV (Tesla LR Y). There are less than 50 hydrogen fuel stations in all of North America (nearly all in California) and three in the Sacramento Region where I live. The fuel stations are often out of fuel for various reasons - supply, weather, whatever.
Also, the process of creating hydrogen fuel requires large amounts of energy inputs, typically from fossil fuels. So the process ends up not reducing CO2 so much when "well to wheel" calculations are considered. (Note: A promising hydrogen fuel production scheme in Utah may get underway that could radically change that calculation.)
I've found the single biggest plus for owning an EV means never (rarely) going to a fueling station. So hydrogen is almost definitely a big no for me.
Costly and inefficient to source. Transportation, storage, and infrastructure = $$$$$
I liked how (initially anyway) Google Maps paused whatever you were listening to instead of talking over it like Waze does.
He just paid the highest individual tax bill ever (2021). He didn't pay taxes in 2018 because he overpaid in 2017. People like Liz Warren and Bernie like to leave that little detail out.
His wealth is tied up in stock, hence the idea of taxing unrealized gains is being thrown around.
I was quite taken aback by my friend's strong reaction/statement, and I did not want to get into a confrontation over it. But it does not surprise me people would omit convenient facts like you gave above. Making money and being a capitalist should not be frowned upon. I guess it is a different topic if after a certain earnings point, money should be taxed at a higher rate, but that is not what this thread is about. My overriding feeling on this is one has to consider the number of jobs his companies generate, providing even more tax revenue, and then all of the other companies (suppliers and local businesses) that benefit from it and the taxing of those entities. Incentives to economic development like getting rich can be highly motivating.
Ready to support Elon! LI batteries that ruin the earth while mining nickel? No problem. Elon is saving it on the other side.
Go Tesla!
Go Tesla!
I like the voice choices in Waze. They have some added some fairly creative and wacky ones, like Boy George. We prefer Randy. One thing I don't understand is that when the exit is 1/4 mile away, the voice tells us a 1/2 mile, and then corrects itself when it get's closer to the exit.
It's still out there, and there are some H vehicles out there and under development. Not just cars; aircraft could really benefit from hydrogen power. As others said, though, hydrogen isn't without hurdles of its own.
One of the more interesting developments (or early research) I've seen related to that is the possibility of using cryogenic liquid hydrogen in place of compressed gas. Solid material-based storage also sounds like an intriguing possibility.
The tweet to which you responded was already open to interpretation, as all such questions always are, long before you posted. All you did was use it as an excuse to heap more worship on Tesla. Because you are unable, for whatever reason, to endure any post about Tesla that isn't entirely positive.
The point of my post was to help guide you towards some self-recognition. I figured it wouldn't work. But I like to help people, so I'll keep trying.
I wouldn't call him a god but he is definitely helping saving this country. Time to support him. Environment be damned.
If you've been paying any attention, you know that the car market, both new and used, is wild right now. But which car, truck and minivan models are the absolute hottest? ISeeCars.com took a look at how fast cars sell from the time they're put on sale to when they're purchased. We've gathered up the top ten of the new cars and the top ten used models, here. Each list gives the model followed by the average number of days each one is on the market.
New
- Honda CR-V: 7.6
- Genesis GV70: 12.2
- Lexus RX 350: 13
- Toyota Highlander: 13.6
- Toyota Camry: 15.1
- Toyota RAV4 Hybrid: 15.3
- Ford Maverick Hybrid: 15.5
- Subaru Forester: 17
- Toyota Tacoma: 17.6
- Subaru Crosstrek: 17.7
Used
- Tesla Model X: 28
- Honda Insight: 28.9
- Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid: 29.4
- Tesla Model Y: 29.5
- Toyota Prius Prime: 32.8
- Mazda3 Sedan: 34.3
- Tesla Model S: 34.4
- Tesla Model 3: 34.6
- Chevy Volt: 35
- Ford Mustang Mach-E: 35.1