OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
LOL…. Maybe my FIL lied to me. But don’t know why he would.Based on current, used Model X prices, and your track record for honesty.....
Interesting. You can be certain it's not, as Tesla claims, them looking out for folks who really want the car versus flippers in it for the money. It's not a new game.
My Porsche dealer initially wanted me to sign a one-year agreement not to sell my GT3 to anybody but them. Which they also claimed was to get the cars into the hands of people who want the car and keep it out of the hands of flippers (which is equally BS).
Another P dealer I talked to claimed to not charge ADMs. But then they had all these super-low mileage "used" GT3s for sale for $50K+ over the original MSRP.
I'm guessing Tesla is hoping that producing smaller numbers means driving up initial rarity so they can buy the car back and then sell it used at prevailing market prices, same as other brands have been doing. Sell the car twice, for more money the second time. And people will pay for the immediacy if nothing else.
My Porsche dealer initially wanted me to sign a one-year agreement not to sell my GT3 to anybody but them. Which they also claimed was to get the cars into the hands of people who want the car and keep it out of the hands of flippers (which is equally BS).
Another P dealer I talked to claimed to not charge ADMs. But then they had all these super-low mileage "used" GT3s for sale for $50K+ over the original MSRP.
I'm guessing Tesla is hoping that producing smaller numbers means driving up initial rarity so they can buy the car back and then sell it used at prevailing market prices, same as other brands have been doing. Sell the car twice, for more money the second time. And people will pay for the immediacy if nothing else.
Adapt to an emerging technology by going slower than everyone else. Sounds like a winning formula.
We'll see. I wouldn't want to bet against Toyota doing just fine in the long run.
Especially considering half the country has no interest in buying a BEV as their next vehicle.
I think that, eventually, more and more people will gravitate towards EVs. But I also think it's gonna take more time, possibly a lot more time, than EV evangelists (and Tesla shareholders) want it to take (in the US).
Toyota might be positioning itself to be one of the last non-EV manufacturers standing at a time when people in certain parts of the world are still buying tons of ICEs and hybrids. They're far from a stupid corporation and they aren't making decisions for reasons other than lots and lots of analysis.
What about the other half of the country that is interested in buying a BEV? That's a pretty big market, no? Especially considering US BEV adoption is currently 7 to 8%.
You guys seem to be forgetting Toyota's first go at BEVs were an epic disaster. They were ****, they couldn't turn a profit on them, and no one wanted them. Do you think they'd be doubling down on hybrids if that wasn't the case?
EV is dying despite massive gov't help and subsidies. Tech sucks, cars suck, too many variables to consider
rev that motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rev that motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that's a big market, so is the non-interested half. That's how halves work.
Also, being interested doesn't mean actively shopping. Only about 20 percent falls in the serious category.
Toyota's first go at electrics was a team up with Tesla. I guess Tesla's a failure, too.
Yeah rev your big, bad V8 ...before the EV outsprints you so fast it damn near knocks the retard outta ya.
I do, yes. I think they’re engaged in deliberate, strategic risk-taking because they see a potentially large reward.
It’s just a guess. We will have to see how things play out over the 5, 10, 15 years.
If legacy auto was able to be cash flow positive on volume production of EVs, I assure you they wouldn't be announcing they're scaling back on EVs because of "demand problems". This narrative is BS, and the corporate media is helping them to push it. Facts are facts, and the EV market continues to grow. Consumers just want good EVs.
EV market share in auto is 7.9% with an YOY growth of 29.5%. Hybrid is 16% with YOY growth of 29%.
Hybrids might be more technologically complex (which can be problematic). But, for the many single-car persons/families out there, I think they are probably more compelling with their ability to operate electrically most of the time, but be backed up by ICE when necessary.
I think, though, that that will change as EVs get better and better, which they will surely do. I could be wrong, it's the future so who knows what's gonna happen, but eventually, I think EVs will prove to be the more compelling option for everyone, for all the reasons EV evangelists love them now.
I'd be curious to know how many of the EV bulls here are actually in plug-in hybrid households.
Not sure it’s more complex. It’s two existing technologies in one. Not sure EV will get much better. To me, it’s the infrastructure that needs to improve.
It's really a supply issue. The legacies teaming up with the startups have flooded the market. It's a demand problem only in the sense that it could need keep up with this wave of new production.
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I find these types of reports disingenuous. Figure they are accounting for a ton of the initial cap ex in these initial years of production.
Lucid's real issue is the # of cars sold. Just 1500 in the quarter and as the story says "Lucid entered 2023 with a goal of selling around 14,000 cars, but waning demand for the EV sedan is causing Lucid to reduce expectations to just 8,500-ish units with just October, November, and December left to be accounted for."
EVs are getting better now and will continue to do so.
Ya instead of one company pushing the boundaries, there are now a couple dozen. Progress should be pretty significant in the coming years.
It's more complex because it must contain all the various components for both propulsion approaches, right? More parts means more that can break, more that must be wired up correctly, more that must be operated via software, etc.
Infrastructure has to improve for sure as that will help with EV adoption by those whose living situations aren't conducive to at-home charging. But also, EVs are a relatively young technology, so I'm pretty sure they'll improve in lots of ways. Aero improvements, tire improvements, efficiency improvements, materials improvements, battery improvements, etc.
Jalopnik is often pretty disingenuousness. It's part of their schtick. I don't really use them for serious reporting so much as comic entertainment - mostly from the comments on articles by all the gear-heads out there, which are often priceless.
I hear it said often from the talking heads regarding RIVN as well.
The loss is more a moment in time accounting measure then it is indicative of the companies long term ability to make money.
It’s only a small % of auto market. Demand has hit a wall. Need to get ICE owners to switch.
Good time to ask. Today was the first day of the LA and Guangzhou auto shows.
But even during other weeks - new cars or tech with more range, faster charging, new features, new segments, more competition, etc.
Is range due to bigger battery packs? That’s not better. How fast are the charging now? New features for EV or for autos. There are more options but are they better?