OT: Inflation

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings, nurse the egos of average students, and appease snow plow parents?

I have several high school kids that work for me and the local paper recently published the list of all the kids that made honor roll. I read through it to see which of my employees made it and gave them all $20 if they did. While reading I noticed a lot of names on the list and started counting how many seniors had made it.

Then I thought, maybe the AP extended scale was skewing it so I started looking at middle school and the numbers were the same. +/-70% of the kids from 7th-12th grade made honor roll (3.5 or above.) 35-40% have a 4.0 or above.

We are a small district that has 2 elementary schools, 1 middle school, and 1 high school. As far as public schools go, it's hard to beat. We are number 1 in the state and top 2-3% nationally by most publications, with the biggest dings coming from our lack of diversity.... But all that said I am calling absolute bullshìt on 70 out of 92 seniors having a 3.5 or above and 74 out of 101 7th graders.

It appears it's a national phenomenon. Most schools no longer give out zeros. If you don't do your work, you get a 50 now apparently. There trying to get away from letter grades and go to "standards based grading" at the younger levels. I get that Kindergartners have always gotten 2 elephants, a giraffe, and a porcupine for grades and that's fine .. but 4th-5th grade?

I'm sure it's probably infected private schools too, but hopefully not as bad.

Quick Blog Post Explaining Grade Inflation


Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings, nurse the egos of average students, and appease snow plow parents?

I have several high school kids that work for me and the local paper recently published the list of all the kids that made honor roll. I read through it to see which of my employees made it and gave them all $20 if they did. While reading I noticed a lot of names on the list and started counting how many seniors had made it.

Then I thought, maybe the AP extended scale was skewing it so I started looking at middle school and the numbers were the same. +/-70% of the kids from 7th-12th grade made honor roll (3.5 or above.) 35-40% have a 4.0 or above.

We are a small district that has 2 elementary schools, 1 middle school, and 1 high school. As far as public schools go, it's hard to beat. We are number 1 in the state and top 2-3% nationally by most publications, with the biggest dings coming from our lack of diversity.... But all that said I am calling absolute bullshìt on 70 out of 92 seniors having a 3.5 or above and 74 out of 101 7th graders.

It appears it's a national phenomenon. Most schools no longer give out zeros. If you don't do your work, you get a 50 now apparently. There trying to get away from letter grades and go to "standards based grading" at the younger levels. I get that Kindergartners have always gotten 2 elephants, a giraffe, and a porcupine for grades and that's fine .. but 4th-5th grade?

I'm sure it's probably infected private schools too, but hopefully not as bad.

Quick Blog Post Explaining Grade Inflation


Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

Correct, if a kid doesn’t make honor roll, you might hurt their feelings. And congrats on the click bait title, dic k. I was getting the fingers warmed up to defend orange man.

 

[dorndawg]

These kids can't read, man.

 

[GloryDawg]

Correct, if a kid doesn’t make honor roll, you might hurt their feelings. And congrats on the click bait title, dic k. I was getting the fingers warmed up to defend orange man.

In just four weeks Trump has demolished our education system. Just look at the grades.***

 

[GloryDawg]

I might be way off base and I am sure some of you will let me know but our education level has been steady dropping for 40 years. It seemed to pick up even faster with Bush's no children left behind. Seems like that's when they started having to do gateway and achievement test or whatever they call it. My observation it seems teachers are not educating. They are teaching what information it needs to do good on those tests.

Flame away girls.

 

[anon1758050382]

I read the thread title and drafted a really good bitcoin post... [DELETE]

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I might be way off base and I am sure some of you will let me know but our education level has been steady dropping for 40 years. It seemed to pick up even faster with Bush's no children left behind. Seems like that's when they started having to do gateway and achievement test or whatever they call it. My observation it seems teachers are not educating. They are teaching what information it needs to do good on those tests.

Flame away girls.

I have limited first hand knowledge of this subject, so others can correct me…again. It’s almost impossible for a kid to fail a class now. A friend of mine recently retired from teaching at one of the better rated high schools in the state. Towards the end, the principal kept asking what can little Johnny can do to pass. “Complete assignments” was not an acceptable reply. Kids kept passing the class even though my friend didn’t give them a passing grade.

 

[dorndawg]

I might be way off base and I am sure some of you will let me know but our education level has been steady dropping for 40 years. It seemed to pick up even faster with Bush's no children left behind. Seems like that's when they started having to do gateway and achievement test or whatever they call it. My observation it seems teachers are not educating. They are teaching what information it needs to do good on those tests.

Flame away girls.

My sense is teachers are doing what their employers are demanding.

Schools and teachers absolutely matter, but to me the issues are far more systemic & societal .

 

[Shmuley]

615 incoming. Prepare your anus.

 

[Villagedawg]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings, nurse the egos of average students, and appease snow plow parents?

Student grades don't affect accountability ratings one way or the other.

I have several high school kids that work for me and the local paper recently published the list of all the kids that made honor roll. I read through it to see which of my employees made it and gave them all $20 if they did. While reading I noticed a lot of names on the list and started counting how many seniors had made it.

Then I thought, maybe the AP extended scale was skewing it so I started looking at middle school and the numbers were the same. +/-70% of the kids from 7th-12th grade made honor roll (3.5 or above.) 35-40% have a 4.0 or above.

AP could possibly skew the number since it goes above 4.0.

We are a small district that has 2 elementary schools, 1 middle school, and 1 high school. As far as public schools go, it's hard to beat. We are number 1 in the state and top 2-3% nationally by most publications, with the biggest dings coming from our lack of diversity.... But all that said I am calling absolute bullshìt on 70 out of 92 seniors having a 3.5 or above and 74 out of 101 7th graders.

It appears it's a national phenomenon. Most schools no longer give out zeros. If you don't do your work, you get a 50 now apparently. There trying to get away from letter grades and go to "standards based grading" at the younger levels. I get that Kindergartners have always gotten 2 elephants, a giraffe, and a porcupine for grades and that's fine .. but 4th-5th grade?

Standards based grading is not giving our stickers for grades. It's based on if grades are supposed to reflect what you have mastered, then they should reflect that. Not based on an average of what you could do while practicing a skill. It's grading based on a standard rather than an average of what you did on several assignments which inherently gives a skewed result and usually does not reflect what (standards) you have mastered and what you have not. A couple of very simplified examples would be say you scored 40% on the fractions test and then scored 100% on the adding two digit numbers test, your final grade is 70. That 70 really doesn't accurately reflect what you know about math. Also, say you score a zero on the fractions test. Then you learn fractions to a higher level and score 100 on the retest. Your grade of 50 is widely skewed away from what you truly have mastered now. You have mastered 100% not 50.

Here are a couple of videos about both

I'm sure it's probably infected private schools too, but hopefully not as bad.

Quick Blog Post Explaining Grade Inflation


Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

All of that to say that yes. Grades are inflated. And they are also underflated if that was a word. True standards based grading is a good answer for this.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Its all about the money, or rather, federal (taxpayer) dollars.

 

[mstateglfr]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings, nurse the egos of average students, and appease snow plow parents?

Yes, very much the case in my metro.
GPA is largely meaningless and the real differentiators now are AP test scores and ACT score.
- Getting a 3 or higher on AP tests shows the students that are learning and understanding material because you cant grade inflate AP tests.
- ACT test scores still show how prepared for college level work and how well students have understood core high school classwork.

Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

In my state, charter/private/home school teachers dont need to even have teaching licenses. That can be fine in some cases, and a total shitshow in other cases.
And in my metro, the 3 main(larger?) private high schools do not have better/higher achieving students than public schools they are around.



I see the grades and GPAs of the girls I coach and am constantly in disbelief at how high the overall average is. Also, many who I would figure to be nearly ineligible are pulling down GPAs that are nearly a full point higher than what I had in high school.
But AP test scores and ACT test score are still legit.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

We don't need school any more. Chat GPT tells people all they need to know.

 

[mcdawg22]

The scales are different too. I think we were on a 5 point or maybe 7 in high school. My daughter is on 10 point and she takes several AP classes that register as 5.0. Admittedly she is taking classes in 8th grade that I was taking in 9th and 10th.

 

[aTotal360]

ACT/SAT scores are the only way to measure.

 

[Curby]

It's gonna trigger the usual suspects, but I am in favor of abolishing the Dept of Education as a cabinet-level position. Another failure of Jimmy Carter. He did that to appease the teacher's unions, and public education went from #1 in the world to now almost 40th, I think.

Let each state do their thing,

 

[HRMSU]

My kids went to a highly rated public school in TX and I think I got a better education in DeSoto County schools back in the day. Their school would allow anyone to retake a test they failed to get a 70. Assignments that were past due didn't receive zeros unless they never turned it in. They could turn it in late and just get points taken off. The way they taught math to me was bonkers. The teachers I talked to about the retakes and past due assignments said the emphasis was on learning the material so they saw getting the kids to retake the material or actually do an assignment even though it might be late to be a way to learn the material before they moved on.

 

[mstateglfr]

I should add that it has taken me years to get on board with how some classes are graded in both MS and HS in my District, and much of that struggle is because its different from how I was graded.

I was graded on homework, quizzes, and tests.
- If any of them sucked, it was pretty much 'too bad so sad, do better next time' and that is the mentality I have had to analyze and question its usefulness.

My kids are graded differently.
- Homework is rarely actually graded and instead, it is used as evidence of effort and understanding of material if/when a student doesn't score well on a test. Basically, the homework can help show the student is putting in the time and understands the concept, even if they didnt successfully regurgitate it from memory on a test.
- Quizzes are scored and can be adjusted at times, if the student does the work correctly, because the important thing is whether or not the student understands the material.
- Tests are scored and can be adjusted at times, if the student does the work correctly and/or shows the homework they have completed, because the important thing is whether or not the student understands the material. Also, if a test score was bad, but then in a subsequent test the student shows they now understand the info in the prior test, then that old test score can increase.




My mentality was always that you need to know a concept by a certain date(quiz/test) and if you dont, then you got a bad grade.
...but is that the best way to grade students? Does that approach actually have meaning, or is it actually important that the student be able to demonstrate understanding at some point in the semester?
If it takes them longer to understand a concept/unit of Pre-Calc...so what? Like why should that result in a bad score? Isnt demonstrating understanding the actual point of education?

Its been a difficult viewpoint or perspective to change, since one way was so ingrained in me thru experience, but I do genuinely see value in not caring as much about successfully remembering info for a random test and instead focusing on ensuring the student understands the concept/info at some point in the semester.

 

[johnson86-1]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings, nurse the egos of average students, and appease snow plow parents?

I have several high school kids that work for me and the local paper recently published the list of all the kids that made honor roll. I read through it to see which of my employees made it and gave them all $20 if they did. While reading I noticed a lot of names on the list and started counting how many seniors had made it.

Then I thought, maybe the AP extended scale was skewing it so I started looking at middle school and the numbers were the same. +/-70% of the kids from 7th-12th grade made honor roll (3.5 or above.) 35-40% have a 4.0 or above.

We are a small district that has 2 elementary schools, 1 middle school, and 1 high school. As far as public schools go, it's hard to beat. We are number 1 in the state and top 2-3% nationally by most publications, with the biggest dings coming from our lack of diversity.... But all that said I am calling absolute bullshìt on 70 out of 92 seniors having a 3.5 or above and 74 out of 101 7th graders.

It appears it's a national phenomenon. Most schools no longer give out zeros. If you don't do your work, you get a 50 now apparently. There trying to get away from letter grades and go to "standards based grading" at the younger levels. I get that Kindergartners have always gotten 2 elephants, a giraffe, and a porcupine for grades and that's fine .. but 4th-5th grade?

I'm sure it's probably infected private schools too, but hopefully not as bad.

Quick Blog Post Explaining Grade Inflation


Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

Grade inflation is bad at all levels, elementary through college. Hell, when I was in school, the worst grade inflation was in masters programs. All my friends that got advanced degrees had perfect grades unless they were in law school or medical school.

But the problem is that for a lot of parents, they are so focused on resumes, if their kid gets a bad grade their first goal is to get the grade fixed rather than making sure their kid knows enough to make a good grade.

Our local school system has had to deal with it in elementary. People lost their **** because their kids were making some C's and having B averages.

 

[mstateglfr]

It's gonna trigger the usual suspects, but I am in favor of abolishing the Dept of Education as a cabinet-level position. Another failure of Jimmy Carter. He did that to appease the teacher's unions, and public education went from #1 in the world to now almost 40th, I think.

Let each state do their thing,

Whether the Dept of Ed should exist or not can be something to discuss, but either way wont change grade inflation.
Each state already does its own thing.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Schools are nothing but baby sitting services nowadays. Most everything you need to know by the eight grade. 9-12th should be career-tech schools.

 

[mstateglfr]

Schools are nothing but baby sitting services nowadays. Most everything you need to know by the eight grade. 9-12th should be career-tech schools.

Genuinely- it really sucks to see your experience has led you to this conclusion. I feel bad to see someone think that kids have learned most everything they need to know by 8th grade.

 

[dorndawg]

Schools are nothing but baby sitting services nowadays. Most everything you need to know by the eight grade. 9-12th should be career-tech schools.

lol

 

[aTotal360]

Schools are nothing but baby sitting services nowadays.

The big problem is the parents who genuinely look at school as a babysitting service. There are lots of parents with that mindset.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The big problem is the parents who genuinely look at school as a babysitting service. There are lots of parents with that mindset.

California (at least where my friend lives) allows 4 year olds to start kindergarten for this reason.

 

[dorndawg]

The big problem is the parents who genuinely look at school as a babysitting service. There are lots of parents with that mindset.

Agree. Some parents are just absolute shiitbags. And some just don't have any other options and/or don't know any better. It's a sad, bad situation

 

[Villagedawg]

Kids kept passing the class even though my friend didn’t give them a passing grade.

Not sure what happened here, but that would be against the law.

 

[Villagedawg]

I might be way off base and I am sure some of you will let me know but our education level has been steady dropping for 40 years. It seemed to pick up even faster with Bush's no children left behind. Seems like that's when they started having to do gateway and achievement test or whatever they call it. My observation it seems teachers are not educating. They are teaching what information it needs to do good on those tests.

Flame away girls.

Kid are way more highly educated now than 40 years ago, and it's not even remotely close.

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

Its all about the money, or rather, federal (taxpayer) dollars.

well partially correct. It is about the dollars.....the cost of a secondary education after High School has gotten so enormously out of control that its becoming a situation where only the rich and super lucky folks born with genius IQs can afford to go to school.....so its about getting kids the grades to obtain the millions of dollars out there for scholarships.....enrollment windfalls are coming and educators on all levels are doing everything in their power to prevent it....its not about learning, its about the dollars.

 

[dorndawg]

California (at least where my friend lives) allows 4 year olds to start kindergarten for this reason.

I believe California has universal k-4

 

[HailStateMuse]

My cousin is about a decade younger than me. He currently attends the same HS I graduated from, and has the exact same teacher for English Lit. He had “the family” proof read an essay he had to write for his final in December at a dinner at my Grandmother’s house. It was absolutely horrible. In fact, it was so bad our entire family proceeded to laugh and ask if he was just joking. Myself and my brothers all graduated from this HS, and we all had this same teacher for English Lit, meaning we have a good understanding of her expectations and grading scale. Anyways, he got a 102 and has a 4.0 GPA, and he struggles to spell his words properly. Great kid, even a smart kid, but somewhere along the way his education has clearly been devalued.

TLDR: Yes.

 

[Maroon13]

Grade inflation that is... Are K-12 schools just pumping grades to over inflate their standings

Yes! I know from my kids schooling.... they get many opportunities to make up grades and or get easy As. Also it is my impression they spoon feed the kids info for the test.

Reminded me of my college stats class, It was tough material (for me). I was sweating the first test. Class before the test, Professor gave us a study guide which was basically the test. I made an A in Stats with those study guides, other wise I probably get a C, maybe B.

I think schools today operate very similar to my college stats class.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Anyhow, I never realized how bad this crap has gotten. As a long time proponent of public schools, I humbly tip my hat to many of you Charter/Private/Home School folks. Might start looking that direction myself.

The only advantage I see regarding public schools these days is that it's free, and they provide football. The rest can be better found elsewhere.

So it's all about what you want to do. I'm probably putting one of mine in public simply because he plays football there and it's easier.

 

[Herbert Nenninger]

Kid are way more highly educated now than 40 years ago, and it's not even remotely close.

Yeah, it has seemed to me that schools have gone soft. But at the same time, my sixth grader is doing algebra in 6th grade. And my first grader and several of his classmates read 100 page chapter books like it’s nothing. We were doing “Buffy and Mack go up the hill” in first grade, and we thought we were scholars. Overall it does seem certain concepts are being pushed at younger levels, which is encouraging.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

ACT/SAT scores are the only way to measure.

I cannot speak for the SAT scores, but ACT scores have increased dramatically in the last 40 years. This might be a slight exaggeration but it seems to me that more kids in a class at Madison Central make 30 plus on the ACT now than the number of kids in the entire state of Mississippi in the mid-80's.

 

[mstateglfr]

California (at least where my friend lives) allows 4 year olds to start kindergarten for this reason.

My state has universal preschool(Statewide Voluntary Preschool Program) for 4 year olds, but it isnt for babysitting.
In a state where public education has been attacked by the Legislature and Governor for years, this is something that continues to be supported by both sides of the aisle.

It is largely .5 day in almost all districts, but some districts have gotten creative and partnered with community/city groups to help fund the other .5 day. Thats because .5 day only makes it tough for many families to get kids to/from school and also have a daycare plan.


But it isnt babysitting service because actual data, like years of data, show early childhood education and support is directly tied to older student success. This is true in urban and rural areas. This is true in high income and low income areas.


Just offering up another perspective- one that is rooted in a very red state with a largely rural population.

 

[Yeti]

It’s a game…..if kids want to go to highly rated colleges they need high GPA and ACT/SAT. Both can be manipulated. To a degree.

 

[Curby]

The Covid era opened some parent's eyes to certain agenda-driven teachers pushing CRT, Gender fluidity, and orange man bad.

Zoom classes from home caused many parents to say "what does this have to do with the subject matter this particular class is supposed to be teaching?"

 

[aTotal360]

I cannot speak for the SAT scores, but ACT scores have increased dramatically in the last 40 years. This might be a slight exaggeration but it seems to me that more kids in a class at Madison Central make 30 plus on the ACT now than the number of kids in the entire state of Mississippi in the mid-80's.

Maybe so, but it's a way to see how well one school's ability to teach is better than another.

 

[thatsbaseball]

"- ACT test scores still show how prepared for college level work and how well students have understood core high school classwork."
Asking because I don't know. Has the ACT test been made more difficult , less difficult or stayed the same over the last several decades ?

Edited: Well found out everything I ever wanted to know about the ACT including the fact that it is just as difficult as it has been.

Average ACT Score | BestColleges

Find the average ACT score range and more statistics — broken down by year, state, race/ethnicity, and gender — in our report.

www.bestcolleges.com