OT: Inflation
- Thread starter Jeffreauxdawg
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My wife is a teacher in a tested subject. They focus all of their effort on teaching the skills that will be tested because that is how they are measured and the school is measured. It doesn't mean that they don't teach something of value. It does mean that they don't have time to teach much outside of what is measured. That's bad for good teachers who might bring more to the table if they could and that is good for bad teachers as it provides them help in curriculum development and delivery because all the teachers of the subject work together on lesson plans, pace of consuming new material, etc., so you have a team that helps lift the ones that need the help.
Sometimes those who need it are on the way to becoming good teachers but they are just new. By simple numbers, no school can individualize instruction to account for level, method of learning, etc., so it will always be a common approach that does OK for the masses. About the only way to combat that is extra advanced offerings that you will find in some districts and not in others. EVen still, that mostly offers good subjects but rarely accounts for learning style as well.
Legit research?! Peer reviewed?!
Woah there- jethreaux happily offered up an uneducated guess that its all a money play and it was created by the people that benefit from its existence.
Which could be more correct...an uneducated guess or decades of research and review?
I woulda settled for a 10 point scale. Ours was something close to this:
- A: 96-100
- B: 88-95
- C: 80-87
- D: 70-79
- F: Below 70
I have two simple points:
1. If the parent(s) is/are properly involved and the kids want to learn, they will be successful no matter where they go or what they do, and the opposite is equally true.
2. As the husband of a public school teacher, y'all have no idea just how bad the "bad things" are. I have three kids, including one with Down Syndrome....they all received a very good education in our district.....and I couldn't be happier to be done with it. Public education needs to be totally reevaluated, in my opinion.
1. If the parent(s) is/are properly involved and the kids want to learn, they will be successful no matter where they go or what they do, and the opposite is equally true.
2. As the husband of a public school teacher, y'all have no idea just how bad the "bad things" are. I have three kids, including one with Down Syndrome....they all received a very good education in our district.....and I couldn't be happier to be done with it. Public education needs to be totally reevaluated, in my opinion.
Like most things in life, you can get out of it what you put into it. I'm interested in what "bad things" your wife experiences. My biggest complaints are around student behavior due to lack of parenting and parents who refuse to let little Timmy experience any consequences for his actions. We have about 3 years to retirement which should give my wife at least 1 year of PERS before it goes belly up.*** <-hopeful my sarcasterisks are well founded...
Merely curious, but if it was very good what area(s) do you want totally reevaluated? Every school (and company, and organization) can always improve of course.
LOL 4 of us did exactly the same thing . 2 of us scored in the 20's , 2 crashed and burned but a good time was had by all !
I don't think peer reviewed carries a lot of without knowing the journal and more importantly, knowing that the results have been replicated.
But for this particular finding, as far back as when Freakonomics got big, Steven Levitt, who was generally very credulous of regression analysis if he thought it was well done, would tongue in cheek talk about how you knew it was books being in the house that drove the improvement in performance because of the regression analysis, with the obvious point being (1) they did not have the data to control for having the parents that liked to read and read enough to keep books in the house amd (2) you generally still needed some plausible mechanism to believe that what you found isn't a spurious correlation and/or the result of a confounding variable.
That's a long time ago, so maybe now people have done studies showing that families with no books other than ones provided by Dolly Parton's charity and who didn't even read those books to their kids still showed an improvement in reading later on, but I'm a little skeptical of that.
The education down turn started when we put football coaches in charge of our schools instead of educators. Maybe 1 in 10 coaches actually knows what it takes to be a good educator. They have no clue that moving football games to Thursday night eliminates 20-30 percent of that weeks class time. Friday is worthless, so many kids don't come on a Friday after a Thursday night game that teaching pretty much stops and they leave early Thursday. Coaches won't even know the harm they are doing when they run schools. I could give example after example of why coaches should rarely if ever be put in charge of a school but let's just say, education was not their passion and they do not keep up with the best practices in education and play favorites big time as all coaches do. They play the best to win and ignore the ones that can't play.
I know of one Former Coach spent 15 20 minutes everyday of class time in the morning and evening announcing things about practices and game times instead of instructing his coaches to make sure that information was given during extra curricular hours and then wondered why his test scores sucked for those classes. He worked hard to do these announcements everyday but learning was not happening every second he spoke.
Now, that I have bashed HIGH School coaches. Coaches spend many more hours at work than most any of us. They are very dedicated people and often times love these kids more than you know. They have spent countless hours pouring over game film, mowing fields, caring for a kid in ways we may never know. IT's not their fault, it's ours for allowing incompetent people to be put in positions that they are ill prepared to do and expect them to do it well. The process of hiring principals in our STATE is a joke.
Who runs education? Your state and local elected officials (school boards etc), not the Dept of ED, and never did. Dept of ED controlled federal funding. Among other things they insure all the school districts got properly funded and not just the rich communities. Poor kids deserve an education too, it's often their only way out of poverty.
Eliminating the Dept of ED may save some $$$ and Kudo's if they can pull it off and keep the poor school districts viable but I don't see this state improving anything. We elect idiots that think if they have a prayer at an event that is somehow fixing something when the event should not have even happened because it reduced class room time. Extra curricular activities should be limited and never shorten class time!
I know of one Former Coach spent 15 20 minutes everyday of class time in the morning and evening announcing things about practices and game times instead of instructing his coaches to make sure that information was given during extra curricular hours and then wondered why his test scores sucked for those classes. He worked hard to do these announcements everyday but learning was not happening every second he spoke.
Now, that I have bashed HIGH School coaches. Coaches spend many more hours at work than most any of us. They are very dedicated people and often times love these kids more than you know. They have spent countless hours pouring over game film, mowing fields, caring for a kid in ways we may never know. IT's not their fault, it's ours for allowing incompetent people to be put in positions that they are ill prepared to do and expect them to do it well. The process of hiring principals in our STATE is a joke.
Who runs education? Your state and local elected officials (school boards etc), not the Dept of ED, and never did. Dept of ED controlled federal funding. Among other things they insure all the school districts got properly funded and not just the rich communities. Poor kids deserve an education too, it's often their only way out of poverty.
Eliminating the Dept of ED may save some $$$ and Kudo's if they can pull it off and keep the poor school districts viable but I don't see this state improving anything. We elect idiots that think if they have a prayer at an event that is somehow fixing something when the event should not have even happened because it reduced class room time. Extra curricular activities should be limited and never shorten class time!
17 me, a 78% would be a D?!
There goes my life mantra of C's get degrees.
A 95-100
B 85-94
C 75-84
D 70-74
F 69* or below.
* Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I mean, there has been a pretty widely publicized replication crisis and also examples of journals considered legit publishing nonsense papers that were "peer reviewed".
My two boys won Spanish awards without knowing ten Spanish words.
Yeah, that was it. It sucked, but I didn't know that it sucked until I got to college and it was a 10 point scale.
college 10 point scale felt like I had found a cheat code
Uneducated? I learned my ciphering in some of the finest educational establishments tax dollars can build, and started at an early age. Maybe earlier than these “peers”. I’m sure these peer reviewed statistics have zero bias.
My daughter never made below an A from PreK to her Masters in Accounting … very little of it had to do with her teachers. it was all on her own and that is her words. She works for a Big 4 Accounting firm.
My son never made an A except maybe in PE barely making it out of Highschool. He didn’t go to college, just turned 23 and is a supervisor as his company and made just short of $100K last year.
My point is both make good money and are doing what they want to do. Neither really got much out of school, it is their work ethic that got them to this point. School was just a checklist.
Obviously if any journal anywhere was ever wrong, by the power of the transitive property they ALLLLL are.
Your move, science.
You've SCREWED yourself, scientists.
When the low estimates are that 20-30% of published studies don't replicate, I think that does mean that "it's peer reviewed" isn't a silver bullet.
And again, you're talking about a finding that was the butt of a joke for having such obvious issues at least 15 years ago. There's been plenty of time for somebody to do a better study showing it was really the presence of the books, and not genetic impacts from having parents who read and/or actually reading the books, and/or actually having the books read to them that caused the performance improvement, then surely that's a widely known study and it would be easy to produce the actual paper?
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Edit: Never mind, I've got time today:
The present study investigates the incremental validity of the traditional books-at-home measure and selected extensions (i.e., number of children’s books and number of ebooks) for explaining students’ academic achievement as measured by their academic language comprehension. Using multiple linear regressions, we additionally explore the role of the source of information (i.e., whether information is given by parents or children). Based on cross-sectional data of a German sample of 2353 elementary school children from Grades 2 through 4, we found that parents’ information on the number of books and children’s books contributed to students’ academic language comprehension over and above parental occupation and education. Children’s information on the number of books did not further increase the amount of explained variance, and the effects were smaller than those for parents’ information. Yet, when investigated separately, both parents’ and children’s information on the number of books and children’s books at home predicted students’ academic language comprehension and mediated the relationship between more distal structural features of socioeconomic status (i.e., parents’ occupational status and education) and the outcome variable. No effect emerged for the number of ebooks. Our findings point to the robustness of the traditional books-at-home measure when used in parent questionnaires.
Number of books at home as an indicator of socioeconomic status: Examining its extensions and their incremental validity for academic achievement - Social Psychology of Education
The present study investigates the incremental validity of the traditional books-at-home measure and selected extensions (i.e., number of children’s books and number of ebooks) for explaining students’ academic achievement as measured by their academic language comprehension. Using multiple...
link.springer.com
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I was told that they made it easier in the 90’s to the tune of 3 pints in average. No idea if it’s true."- ACT test scores still show how prepared for college level work and how well students have understood core high school classwork."
Asking because I don't know. Has the ACT test been made more difficult , less difficult or stayed the same over the last several decades ?
Edited: Well found out everything I ever wanted to know about the ACT including the fact that it is just as difficult as it has been.
Average ACT Score | BestColleges
Find the average ACT score range and more statistics — broken down by year, state, race/ethnicity, and gender — in our report.www.bestcolleges.com
Well it certainly has gotten worse since the DOE was created.
and we spend more money than anyone on education so….
Probly depends on who is paying for the research. Sometimes the overly educated people do the stupidest things. Book smart or common sense. Peer reviewed...lol
I don’t think that’s accurate at all as a percentage. Also all of the conversations saying we have fallen is because of other country’s increased focus on education spending.
BTW I was real tempted to drop the hammer since you dared us to but twice was enough.
Oh I figured you didn’t want to cost Robbie and Paul money by being a douche.
Fact: we spend more on education than everyone else and we are dead 17ing last. Money doesn’t solve problems. It MAY help though.
Robbie and Paul ain’t got **** to do with me. I’ve always liked you as a poster but I felt like you were daring the mods.
As a society, we are getting dumber, as a whole, in an era when we should be getting smarter. I think it has to doing with lowering expectations/accountability and likely because life gets easier everyday.
Remember 20+ years ago when there was national push to do away with homework because lower income kids were less likely to do it and the students who would actually complete the homework would have an unfair advantage?
I heard an ROTC instructor at TAMU say, "success is a lousy teacher."
Remember 20+ years ago when there was national push to do away with homework because lower income kids were less likely to do it and the students who would actually complete the homework would have an unfair advantage?
I heard an ROTC instructor at TAMU say, "success is a lousy teacher."
Oh I know you did.Robbie and Paul ain’t got **** to do with me. I’ve always liked you as a poster but I felt like you were daring the mods.
And I know you don’t care about messing with other peoples money! You are an internet message board moderator by god!
My youngest graduated in 2015 from one of the best school districts in Austin. They taught them pretty much how to take standardized tests unless they were in advanced classes for Science or Mathematics. It must've worked well because he destroyed all of the state standardized tests and made well over 30 on the ACT. He only had 3 1/2a hours of sleep. He dropped out of Mississippi State after accepting a full scholarship that paid for everything. I wish he had gone to the private school in Mississippi that my oldest child did.
I would love to go on, but let me get started. I had children who were separated by 10 years in school, and what they taught and how they taught were utterly different between my oldest and my youngest.
I would love to go on, but let me get started. I had children who were separated by 10 years in school, and what they taught and how they taught were utterly different between my oldest and my youngest.
Besides the internet clout my currency is leftover big screens.
The saying is true
hard times make hard people
Hard people make easy times
Easy times make soft people
Soft people make hard times
Who was the trump cabinet pick in his first term who got blasted for having the life isn’t fair pic?
This is the exact opposite of what I experience with my daughter. I went to Catholic School and took the higher level classes. My daughter is in Florida public schools and her classes are way more advanced than mine were by 8th grade. Robotics and Coding in engineering. Borderline trig in her Geometry classes. I do think her history and English are about where we were.
It's about state testing here, it's not about real education. Hell, if testing is the answer, teach to the ACT/SAT instead of some government nonsense. Education is too much a one size fits all. The government and parents (lack of) have made a mess of things too. No discipline and a bunch of silly classroom BS is big problem. School teachers are more concerned with their cute *** door art and themed classroom because colleges are teaching them to do that crap too. School is about everything but education. Oh, and now they've got the ACT super score to boost scores as well.
Yes they do.
They reward you even more when they don’t have to tell you.
they reward you even more than that when they don’t have to tell you and you are good and telling and leading others.
My area of expertise and I missed the topic because of the thread.
There is a lawsuit in Clarksville, TN about to go to trial that will rock education along these lines if it is successful.
19 year old kid graduated from high school with a 3.4 GPA, which is As and Bs and made the honor roll many times. He is functionally illiterate and has an IQ ~80. They have emails from teachers to and from admin and central office that prove that the teachers knew he was illiterate and they were told to give him As and Bs anyway "just to get him out."
If he is successful, I suspect every inner city school district and some outside cities will be facing similar lawsuits.
Read all about it here
https://www.thefp.com/p/high-schooler-graduates-illiterate-sues-tennessee-school
School choice is one of the 70/30 issues that Trump is pushing. I suspect universal school choice will be the norm within five years. It could be the best thing for Mississippi's future if school districts utilize it correctly and not for athletics. I have about zero faith that it will be used correctly. Some of us pushed so hard to end the election of superintendents in this state, thinking that getting qualified superintendents would help our state.
Something like 70% of Mississippi school superintendents are former coaches with online masters degrees in administration. Some are great. Many are not.
There is a lawsuit in Clarksville, TN about to go to trial that will rock education along these lines if it is successful.
19 year old kid graduated from high school with a 3.4 GPA, which is As and Bs and made the honor roll many times. He is functionally illiterate and has an IQ ~80. They have emails from teachers to and from admin and central office that prove that the teachers knew he was illiterate and they were told to give him As and Bs anyway "just to get him out."
If he is successful, I suspect every inner city school district and some outside cities will be facing similar lawsuits.
Read all about it here
https://www.thefp.com/p/high-schooler-graduates-illiterate-sues-tennessee-school
School choice is one of the 70/30 issues that Trump is pushing. I suspect universal school choice will be the norm within five years. It could be the best thing for Mississippi's future if school districts utilize it correctly and not for athletics. I have about zero faith that it will be used correctly. Some of us pushed so hard to end the election of superintendents in this state, thinking that getting qualified superintendents would help our state.
Something like 70% of Mississippi school superintendents are former coaches with online masters degrees in administration. Some are great. Many are not.