OT: More Jackson talk (vs moving to the 'burbs)

[TheGoat.sixpack]

I don't get all the dogging Jackson talk. I would think that Madison and Rankin folks would be pulling for Jackson, but most seem to get their kicks from downing the city.

I'm not wanting to turn this into an argument, just friendly chatter. I'm currently selling my Flowood house and looking at Jackson and Madison. My problem with Madison is that I can't find affordable areas with trees and decent lots. These subdivisions that pop up butcher all the trees...drives me crazy. I'm no tree huggin' hippie, but landscaping does make me happy. I also like shade and not being on top of my neighbor (not literally).

With that said, are there some diamond-in-the-rough areas in Madison that I'm missing? I'm thinking maybe Sandalwood. Any others?

I'm also looking hard at the Fondren area and leftover.

Oh, and there's this; my wife looks at me like I have 5 heads when talking about Jackson. So that's an obvious obstacle.

 

[civildawg88]

There are some areas in Madison with big lots. I think it might be gray hawk that has trees and bigger lots. I lived in fondren for a year and then I bought a house in Madison. I just hated the constant worrying about people breaking in your house/car at fondren. I couldn't leave my dog outside or someone would steal her. If your young without kids go rent a house in fondren. But if you have kids you can't live in Jackson unless you can afford private school which I feel like is a dumb financial decision. That is why I moved to Madison

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

Only one kid so I can afford private school.

 

[civildawg88]

I feel like with even one kid your throwing away money though. How much does it cost for one kid to private school? 15k a year? That's 15k each year you can have to do other stuff with if you sent them to public school which you pay for already with your taxes

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

How much of a commute are you willing to make? My sister-in-law leaves in Flora and if I was moving to the Jackson area, I'd live there no doubt.

 

[LuckyTownDawg]

Look at the older neighborhoods in madison up and down old canton and rice, some of them actually have trees. Once you get out towards gluckstadt, all of the neighborhoods that are affordable were built in cow pastures and it shows.

I'm not sure what size house you are looking for but check out Twin Harbors, older neighborhood lots of pines. I currently live there but I am looking to move back down to Leftover mainly due to my commute changing soon. Twin Harbors is redneck and interesting but the people are nice, houses are affordable, and you have two boat ramps if you like to get out on the reservoir.

 

[Perpetual Underachiever]

What price range?

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

I feel like with even one kid your throwing away money though. How much does it cost for one kid to private school? 15k a year? That's 15k each year you can have to do other stuff with if you sent them to public school which you pay for already with your taxes

Private school is about half that.

 

[3MState]

Check into Densmor and The Reserve in Madison and Ridgeland. Tons of beautiful trees.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

And, there is the opinion shared by some that there is no better place to spend one's money than on the education of one's children. Too each his own, but I wouldn't blink over spending an extra 10k on a quality education in a safe environment for one of my offspring.

Private school is about half that.

 

[Digging dog]

I'm not wanting to turn this into an argument, just friendly chatter. I'm currently selling my Flowood house and looking at Jackson
I'm also looking hard at the Fondren area and leftover.
Trading glass-packs for gunshots.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

And, there is the opinion shared by some that there is no better place to spend one's money than on the education of one's children. Too each his own, but I wouldn't blink over spending an extra 10k on a quality education in a safe environment for one of my offspring.

You can get that for free if you live in Madison, but to each his own.

 

[civildawg88]

Exactly my point

 

[rabiddawg]

My wife lived in Fondren with her first husband and their house was broken into twice, in broad daylight, while they were at work. They were one block from Woodland Hills church. But I'm sure your rationale for wanting to live in Jackson is pretty sound.

 

[civildawg88]

I lived in exact same location. Kings highway was where I was

 

[FreeDawg]

Natchez Trace Village has big lots and a lot of trees plus a bunch of houses that are lakefront. It is older for Madison but if you were looking at Jackson I don't think that's an issue.

Sandalwood is cool too. Lived there early in hs. Really, any of the neighborhoods on that stretch on Rice Road.

I also really like north old canton. That's not the same old canton. It's at the end of Hoy. It's still Madison but has all the things you were talking about.

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

Natchez Trace Village has big lots and a lot of trees plus a bunch of houses that are lakefront. It is older for Madison but if you were looking at Jackson I don't think that's an issue.

Sandalwood is cool too. Lived there early in hs. Really, any of the neighborhoods on that stretch on Rice Road.

I also really like north old canton. That's not the same old canton. It's at the end of Hoy. It's still Madison but has all the things you were talking about.

Yeah, I just started looking at Natchez Trace Village and it's nice.

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

What price range?

$220ish

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Natchez Trace Village has big lots and a lot of trees plus a bunch of houses that are lakefront. It is older for Madison but if you were looking at Jackson I don't think that's an issue.

Sandalwood is cool too. Lived there early in hs. Really, any of the neighborhoods on that stretch on Rice Road.

I also really like north old canton. That's not the same old canton. It's at the end of Hoy. It's still Madison but has all the things you were talking about.

Agree with Natchez Trace village. It's older, but it's in the Madison Central School district, it's across the trace from the Reservoir, and there's cool little lake right there if you want to fish and swim (don't know if they still allow water skiing). I remember one house in the $175,000 range, but most of the homes are probably in the $225-250,000 area.

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

My wife lived in Fondren with her first husband and their house was broken into twice, in broad daylight, while they were at work. They were one block from Woodland Hills church. But I'm sure your rationale for wanting to live in Jackson is pretty sound.

I heard an opinion on this the other day. The guy said "would you feel safer knowing that you might get robbed from time to time or constantly being in a car going back and forth to Madison...today's texting drivers make driving much more dangerous than possibly getting robbed."

I thought that was some decent rationale.

 

[TheGoat.sixpack]

How much of a commute are you willing to make? My sister-in-law leaves in Flora and if I was moving to the Jackson area, I'd live there no doubt.

That's way too far, but I do like Flora.

 

[LTblows]

If Fondren is in play, why not Belhaven? Same price range, if not slightly more affordable. Also, it's a little safer than Fondren. It's a very tight community. I love living here. I also have two 75 year old oaks in front of my house.

 

[MeridianDog]

Clinton?

Good schools, Safe, Nice town, Has trees in your price range.

 

[madisonmd]

Just my observation, have 3 kids- oldest 2 to JA and youngest in Madison public, wish I had sent all 3 to madison public!

 

[patdog]

Clinton is on the downward slide. A lot is still good, but overall, Clinton is not what it used to be.

 

[rem101]

Newcastle off 463 past Annandale. Lots are around 3 acres I think. You can have trees on them.

 

[civildawg88]

Yeah Clinton is building a wall to keep Jackson people out. It is getting just as bad

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I have lived in Fondren for 2.5 years now

and have not had any issues with break-ins (knock on wood), either home or car, nor have I ever had my dog stolen, and she stays outside anytime its sunny. The first house was even a chain length fence where it would have been easy to steal her. If you are going to live in this area, I would recommend an alarm system, dog, fence or whatever protective devices you prefer, and you always want to be careful, but its not like we are living in Falluja. There are people out and about in the neighborhood at all hours of the night (friendly movement), but I would not necessarily be all for my wife or 10 year old wandering the neighborhood streets at midnight alone. We love living in this area.

And for those who really believe that an MC education = a Jackson Prep or Saint Andrews education, I'd like some of what you are smoking please. That topic is not even up for debate. That is not to say that a Madison County public school education is not decent, or even great comparatively in the state, but the college prep you get at the private schools is well beyond what most people can get at the public options. The private schools are quite pricey, however, and there are other drawbacks to it depending on what you are looking for.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

And for those who really believe that an MC education = a Jackson Prep or Saint Andrews education, I'd like some of what you are smoking please. That topic is not even up for debate. That is not to say that a Madison County public school education is not decent, or even great comparatively in the state, but the college prep you get at the private schools is well beyond what most people can get at the public options.

Can you back this up? Is there evidence that kids with similar backgrounds come out so much better at Prep/JA/SA than at MC? Honestly I'm not calling ******** on you or anything- just curious. I have no stake in either side. They're all miles ahead of my high school.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Can you back this up? Is there evidence that kids with similar backgrounds come out so much better at Prep/JA/SA than at MC? Honestly I'm not calling ******** on you or anything- just curious. I have no stake in either side. They're all miles ahead of my high school.

Just personal experience. I would put Prep and SA well ahead of the other private schools though. Just look at the national merit numbers or any other metric available. Like any education, any person will get out of it what they put in it. So there will be plenty of people who attend the private schools, do not apply themselves at all and find themselves behind their public school counterparts. There will also be people who go to public schools, who work their tails off and find themselves better off than their private school counterparts. But in my experience, I believe that what is offered to students at Prep/SA gives them an advantage over any other Mississippi high school education, IF they choose to make use of it.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

National Merit?? Madison Central has lead the state in National Merit Finalists for years (actually, I haven't checked in last couple years, so if that's out of date, sorry). Granted, it's doesn't have the same National Merit % as the private schools since it can't reject poor people, but it's a well-oiled machine in cranking out National Merits.

I would agree that you can probably coast your way through Madison Central or another good public school with C's, in a way that a private school wouldn't let you, but if you're smart and work hard, you're just as good or better off education-wise at a strong public school. You'll probably get better extracirricular activities too, like marching band, quiz bowl, academic decathlon, subject-area clubs, etc.



ETA: Madison Central led in 2013 as well: http://djournal.com/news/region-boasts-several-national-merit-semifinalists/.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I hadn't looked up the numbers lately, and you are correct. It looks like Prep and SA have slipped on the national merit numbers lately. I'm not saying MC is not a good school at all. But there are advantages to having smaller class sizes, the college preparatory curriculum, etc...

There are plenty of disadvantages to it as well. Money being chief among them.

 

[WhiteShepherd07]

National Merit?? Madison Central has lead the state in National Merit Finalists for years (actually, I haven't checked in last couple years, so if that's out of date, sorry). Granted, it's doesn't have the same National Merit % as the private schools since it can't reject poor people, but it's a well-oiled machine in cranking out National Merits.

I would agree that you can probably coast your way through Madison Central or another good public school with C's, in a way that a private school wouldn't let you, but if you're smart and work hard, you're just as good or better off education-wise at a strong public school. You'll probably get better extracirricular activities too, like marching band, quiz bowl, academic decathlon, subject-area clubs, etc.



ETA: Madison Central led in 2013 as well: http://djournal.com/news/region-boasts-several-national-merit-semifinalists/.

Madison Central is also one of the biggest schools in the state as well. I remember graduating from Prep we had around 20 National Merits and thats from a class graduating 150. Big per capita difference there

 

[Chickamauga]

I only have anecdotal evidence, but I tend to agree with him.

Can you back this up? Is there evidence that kids with similar backgrounds come out so much better at Prep/JA/SA than at MC? Honestly I'm not calling ******** on you or anything- just curious. I have no stake in either side. They're all miles ahead of my high school.

I went to a generally decent, relatively large (5A at the time) public high school in Mississippi. I was a huge nerd, worked my *** off, took every AP and Honors class I could, got involved in extracurricular activities like Youth Congress and Governor's School, was a National Merit scholar, etc.

At the time, my cousin was the headmistress of the upper school at St. Andrew's. When I took the SAT there (because there was no SAT testing site in my town), she arranged for me to meet afterward with SA's guidance counselor. I was gobsmacked by the difference in quality and sophistication between my conversation with her and the "guidance" I was provided by my counselor...who limited herself to showing me the scholarships for which I could qualify at Ole Miss or State and telling me she could arrange for me to visit Millsaps if I happened to be interested in going there.

Of course, that was hardly the only shortcoming relative to college preparation.

I mentioned I took every AP class I could. At my school (again, a decent place by the standards of Mississippi public high schools), that meant US History and Physics my junior year and English and Calculus my senior year--and my AP US History class was taught by a Richard-Belding-like figure who was more interested in decorating for prom during the spring of that year than discussing Woodrow Wilson and the Progressive era. SA and Prep had a multitude of other offerings, and I can't imagine that teachers can get away with 17ing off for a few months when parents are paying 7k-12k a year.

I also mentioned that I got involved in extracurricular academic activities. That was MUCH more difficult to do at my high school than it was at St. Andrew's and Prep. For instance, I wanted to do debate. We didn't have a debate program. So, I had to seek out a teacher who taught speech and ask her to help me get involved. She sent away for materials from the Mississippi Forensics League and spent several Friday nights a year driving me to debate tournaments. At those events, I met dozens of kids from St. Andrew's, Prep, Jackson Academy--which, needless to say, had programs that couldn't help but be more elaborate than ours.

And, of course, the reason that those schools offer those opportunities is because they attract students and parents who care obsessively about academics and college preparation. You can find those at lots of Mississippi public schools, too, but they will amount to a much smaller percentage of the population. Teenagers almost always want to be like their friends. For better and worse, it's easier to be a striver when you're surrounded by strivers.

Finally, it bears noting that the large Jackson private schools are exceptions. Demographics was the only major difference between my high school and 99 percent of Mississippi private schools. (Which I realize raises an entirely different discussion). If I was back in my hometown, I wouldn't pay for either of the private options. In Jackson, though, I would do my best to pay for SA, Prep or JA.

 

[Spotdawg]

So you are saying...

Madison Central is also one of the biggest schools in the state as well. I remember graduating from Prep we had around 20 National Merits and thats from a class graduating 150. Big per capita difference there

So you are saying that the student populations for Prep and St. Andrews are directly comparable to the student population of Madison Central? I can't believe for a moment that the average of native intelligence, financial background, and pressure from a "successful home" is even close at Madison Central to that of Prep and St. Andrews. To compare those schools is misleading. Take that into consideration before comparing National Merit awards...and the percentage by student body.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I went to a generally decent, relatively large (5A at the time) public high school in Mississippi. I was a huge nerd, worked my *** off, took every AP and Honors class I could, got involved in extracurricular activities like Youth Congress and Governor's School, was a National Merit scholar, etc.

At the time, my cousin was the headmistress of the upper school at St. Andrew's. When I took the SAT there (because there was no SAT testing site in my town), she arranged for me to meet afterward with SA's guidance counselor. I was gobsmacked by the difference in quality and sophistication between my conversation with her and the "guidance" I was provided by my counselor...who limited herself to showing me the scholarships for which I could qualify at Ole Miss or State and telling me she could arrange for me to visit Millsaps if I happened to be interested in going there.

Of course, that was hardly the only shortcoming relative to college preparation.

I mentioned I took every AP class I could. At my school (again, a decent place by the standards of Mississippi public high schools), that meant US History and Physics my junior year and English and Calculus my senior year--and my AP US History class was taught by a Richard-Belding-like figure who was more interested in decorating for prom during the spring of that year than discussing Woodrow Wilson and the Progressive era. SA and Prep had a multitude of other offerings, and I can't imagine that teachers can get away with 17ing off for a few months when parents are paying 7k-12k a year.

I also mentioned that I got involved in extracurricular academic activities. That was MUCH more difficult to do at my high school than it was at St. Andrew's and Prep. For instance, I wanted to do debate. We didn't have a debate program. So, I had to seek out a teacher who taught speech and ask her to help me get involved. She sent away for materials from the Mississippi Forensics League and spent several Friday nights a year driving me to debate tournaments. At those events, I met dozens of kids from St. Andrew's, Prep, Jackson Academy--which, needless to say, had programs that couldn't help but be more elaborate than ours.

And, of course, the reason that those schools offer those opportunities is because they attract students and parents who care obsessively about academics and college preparation. You can find those at lots of Mississippi public schools, too, but they will amount to a much smaller percentage of the population. Teenagers almost always want to be like their friends. For better and worse, it's easier to be a striver when you're surrounded by strivers.

Finally, it bears noting that the large Jackson private schools are exceptions. Demographics was the only major difference between my high school and 99 percent of Mississippi private schools. (Which I realize raises an entirely different discussion). If I was back in my hometown, I wouldn't pay for either of the private options. In Jackson, though, I would do my best to pay for SA, Prep or JA.

Thing is, Madison Central doesn't resemble your public school experience either. It doesn't have AP teachers 17ing around instead of teaching, and it has all the extracurriculars that Prep/St. Andrew's has -- if you ever check out Youth Leg or Model UN or quiz bowl or math conventions or marching band contests or anything like that, Madison Central's delegations are as sharp and well-prepared, or better, as those from Prep/St. Andrew's.

Actually, come to think of it, Madison Central didn't have AP Physics (at least while I was there), so that might be a drawback if you have a child who really wants to take that. But overall, I strongly reject the notion that a smart, hard-working student is even slightly worse off at Madison Central than at any of the Jackson private schools.

 

[Jaqueax]

Rice road area

Agree with Natchez Trace village. It's older, but it's in the Madison Central School district, it's across the trace from the Reservoir, and there's cool little lake right there if you want to fish and swim (don't know if they still allow water skiing). I remember one house in the $175,000 range, but most of the homes are probably in the $225-250,000 area.

You can find some homes needing remodeling This area for less. Rice road is nice and Madison Avenue has good schools. Multi purpose trail next to trace is nice. Crime is non-existent compared to fondren. Night life is also nonexistent unless you like pelican cove and shuckers.

I love fondren and go there often but can't live there - wish I could..

 

[dawgstudent]

If I was back in my hometown, I wouldn't pay for either of the private options.

You shut your ***** mouth.

 

[MarriedtoStateGrad]

I don't get all the dogging Jackson talk. I would think that Madison and Rankin folks would be pulling for Jackson, but most seem to get their kicks from downing the city.

I'm not wanting to turn this into an argument, just friendly chatter. I'm currently selling my Flowood house and looking at Jackson and Madison. My problem with Madison is that I can't find affordable areas with trees and decent lots. These subdivisions that pop up butcher all the trees...drives me crazy. I'm no tree huggin' hippie, but landscaping does make me happy. I also like shade and not being on top of my neighbor (not literally).

With that said, are there some diamond-in-the-rough areas in Madison that I'm missing? I'm thinking maybe Sandalwood. Any others?

I'm also looking hard at the Fondren area and leftover.

Oh, and there's this; my wife looks at me like I have 5 heads when talking about Jackson. So that's an obvious obstacle.

4 things:
1. Tidewater and Treasure cove in Madison between Old Canton and Rice Rd, behind the airport. As well as the other areas mentioned in other posts.
2. Private school half of $15K? 5 years ago Prep was almost $10K. One kid. In Madison I noticed the diff in the bank account very quickly. Loved Madison Central.
3. My sister-in-law lived in Fondren in avery nice house. They had to "wall" themselves in with a very big metal fence. Both kids went to St. Andrew's. Excellent school,but pricey. it got where she really did not want to leave the house and people were coming every week to the door trying to talk their way in. Moved to Madison. She still has PTSD from Fondren.
4. I can hardly believe I am saying this but listen to your wife. Really, one break in to your car, your house or a neighbor's and you will be getting more than looks.

 

[Chickamauga]

Thing is, Madison Central doesn't resemble your public school experience either. It doesn't have AP teachers 17ing around instead of teaching, and it has all the extracurriculars that Prep/St. Andrew's has -- if you ever check out Youth Leg or Model UN or quiz bowl or math conventions or marching band contests or anything like that, Madison Central's delegations are as sharp and well-prepared, or better, as those from Prep/St. Andrew's.

Actually, come to think of it, Madison Central didn't have AP Physics (at least while I was there), so that might be a drawback if you have a child who really wants to take that. But overall, I strongly reject the notion that a smart, hard-working student is even slightly worse off at Madison Central than at any of the Jackson private schools.

That's good to hear. And I do know several people around my age from MCHS who are as intelligent and impressive as anyone I know from anywhere.

I suspect that whatever advantage SA enjoys involves things MC can't control.

For instance, I recently talked separately to two lawyers in Jackson who were pulling ninth graders from MCHS to send them to SA. Each said the biggest factor behind the decision was avoiding adverse peer pressure at MC. One told me that the top 5-10 percent at MC is as good as the top 5-10 percent anywhere in Mississippi, that the next 25 percent is solid, and that the remainder is dreadful. Now, I usually tend to dismiss those kinds of statements as racialized panic, but both of these guys are liberals strongly inclined to support public schools. So what they said made more of an impression.

Anyway, you have a better idea than I do about that statement's accuracy...but it seems plausible that academic success would be "cooler" at SA than at MC.