OT: NJ high school baseball game in controversy

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
13,604
12,367
0
Why shouldn’t he have called it Plum?
Do you not have to touch home plate all of a sudden?
How about those Rangers my friend,

My understanding of Plum's position is that touching home plate or not doesn't matter.


If the player did NOT touch home plate, the ump SHOULD NOT have called him out. End of story.
Because 'it was a cool play' or something.

The ump making the correct call was "making it about himself".
 
Nov 23, 2015
892
850
0
My understanding of Plum's position is that touching home plate or not doesn't matter.


If the player did NOT touch home plate, the ump SHOULD NOT have called him out. End of story.
Because 'it was a cool play' or something.

The ump making the correct call was "making it about himself".
I can certainly relate, as I was umpiring a sectional game in Glassboro about a decade ago for the Little League Intermediate division (13u on a 50/70 field). I was doing the bases, and a kid hit a solo Home Run to left with no one on, and missed first base by several feet. The 1st base dugout was the defensive team, and as the kid was rounding the bases, that dugout is yelling to me "I hope you were paying attention blue". They did appeal missing first, I called the kid out, and all hell broke loose. The 1st base coach obviously didn't see it, but his argument was that I needed "be the star" and I'm "making sure everyone sees me".

About two innings later, the same team hit a solo HR down the right field line. I went out on the play so my plate ump was covering the touch at 1st, but the replacement 1st base coach (the original 1st base coach got ejected on that 1st HR) starts going off on me that I'm not even paying attention to the guy touching 1st because I'm watching the ball and I obviously never saw the missed touch on the first HR.

After all the crap I put up with that night, I vowed to never again work a game for free, and I've never done a sectional/state game since that night.
 

-RUFAN4LIFE-

Heisman
Feb 28, 2015
29,527
45,769
113
I can certainly relate, as I was umpiring a sectional game in Glassboro about a decade ago for the Little League Intermediate division (13u on a 50/70 field). I was doing the bases, and a kid hit a solo Home Run to left with no one on, and missed first base by several feet. The 1st base dugout was the defensive team, and as the kid was rounding the bases, that dugout is yelling to me "I hope you were paying attention blue". They did appeal missing first, I called the kid out, and all hell broke loose. The 1st base coach obviously didn't see it, but his argument was that I needed "be the star" and I'm "making sure everyone sees me".

About two innings later, the same team hit a solo HR down the right field line. I went out on the play so my plate ump was covering the touch at 1st, but the replacement 1st base coach (the original 1st base coach got ejected on that 1st HR) starts going off on me that I'm not even paying attention to the guy touching 1st because I'm watching the ball and I obviously never saw the missed touch on the first HR.

After all the crap I put up with that night, I vowed to never again work a game for free, and I've never done a sectional/state game since that night.
You should have calmly explained that he’s ignorant of what your responsibilities are on this HR vs the first one then thrown his *** out as well.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,584
0
That was no balk. Looked like the kid was changing his grip. The ump might have seen that movement and called a balk.
I thought a bit earlier he had a little head twitch toward first and maybe that was called.. but to wait for the pitch? Weird. Good thread of incompetent and/or corrupt officials.
 
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
16,131
0
I commented early on with this topic but stopped and just continued to read. I was on the side the ump was correct in making the call as long as appeal was done correctly and the ump saw the player miss home. I'm actually a certified USA swim official. I've been invited to officiate at USA summer nationals and olympic trials. Here is an actual situation I was involved with. Tell me what I should have called.

I was officiating lane 4 (the fast qualifier) in the finals of the NJ junior olympics breast stroke (forget if it was 100 or 100). The girl in my lane finished first. She didn't win because I disqualified her for a stroke violation. Rule is the touch of the wall on turns and finished has to be a 2 hand simultaneous touch. Many coaches teach a swipe turn whereby the swimmer times a swipe of the wall with the left hand with a simultaneous touch of the wall with the right hand. She mistimed it and her touch was not simultaneous on one of the turns. I heard the same arguments, ie I was making it about me, it was a minor infraction, I took away the moment of her life, how can I make that call at that point of the meet, etc. Should I have made that call?
 

-RUFAN4LIFE-

Heisman
Feb 28, 2015
29,527
45,769
113
I commented early on with this topic but stopped and just continued to read. I was on the side the ump was correct in making the call as long as appeal was done correctly and the ump saw the player miss home. I'm actually a certified USA swim official. I've been invited to officiate at USA summer nationals and olympic trials. Here is an actual situation I was involved with. Tell me what I should have called.

I was officiating lane 4 (the fast qualifier) in the finals of the NJ junior olympics breast stroke (forget if it was 100 or 100). The girl in my lane finished first. She didn't win because I disqualified her for a stroke violation. Rule is the touch of the wall on turns and finished has to be a 2 hand simultaneous touch. Many coaches teach a swipe turn whereby the swimmer times a swipe of the wall with the left hand with a simultaneous touch of the wall with the right hand. She mistimed it and her touch was not simultaneous on one of the turns. I heard the same arguments, ie I was making it about me, it was a minor infraction, I took away the moment of her life, how can I make that call at that point of the meet, etc. Should I have made that call?
Root cause of the issue was the swimmer not the official.

If it happens in the Olympics, is not called, and costs Team USA a gold medal anyone that says you did wrong will be screaming we got screwed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rubaseball78_rivals

RUBOB72

All-American
Aug 5, 2004
23,385
7,924
0
Coppola Frosh AA … National team 2023… leaves as have a number of other pitchers since 2023. Not a good look for Owens … too many pitchers have left … too many have endured injured arms a… this next season is the one he has to show he can win at this level.
 

dconifer0

All-Conference
Oct 4, 2004
4,232
3,256
113
I commented early on with this topic but stopped and just continued to read. I was on the side the ump was correct in making the call as long as appeal was done correctly and the ump saw the player miss home. I'm actually a certified USA swim official. I've been invited to officiate at USA summer nationals and olympic trials. Here is an actual situation I was involved with. Tell me what I should have called.

I was officiating lane 4 (the fast qualifier) in the finals of the NJ junior olympics breast stroke (forget if it was 100 or 100). The girl in my lane finished first. She didn't win because I disqualified her for a stroke violation. Rule is the touch of the wall on turns and finished has to be a 2 hand simultaneous touch. Many coaches teach a swipe turn whereby the swimmer times a swipe of the wall with the left hand with a simultaneous touch of the wall with the right hand. She mistimed it and her touch was not simultaneous on one of the turns. I heard the same arguments, ie I was making it about me, it was a minor infraction, I took away the moment of her life, how can I make that call at that point of the meet, etc. Should I have made that call?
You made the right call. It's the rule, there's probably a good reason for the rule, and the other swimmers were complying...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bagarocks
Sep 29, 2005
14,051
16,131
0
You made the right call. It's the rule, there's probably a good reason for the rule, and the other swimmers were complying...
In this case the infraction gave her an advantage over the other swimmers by allowing her to get into her turn faster, My older daughter was a very good breaststroker. She was taught to come into the wall as fast as she could, hit simultaneously with both hands and push offer into the turn. In all my years officiating I never thought the risk vs reward was worth it with regard to the swipe touch, At times swimmers would slow down slightly to make sure they timed it correctly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dconifer

Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
Root cause of the issue was the swimmer not the official.

If it happens in the Olympics, is not called, and costs Team USA a gold medal anyone that says you did wrong will be screaming we got screwed.
Yeah but it didnt happen in the Olympics …
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,584
0
I guess because I clicked to see videos above I got fed a 2 year old video of Texas Tech stealing home to beat Texas.. its old but pretty good.. how it played out...

 

tico brown

Heisman
Oct 16, 2005
43,184
13,189
93
These endings keep getting crazier…

Umps made the right call…

And there’s people who are defending the batter/baserunners saying it doesn’t matter that the runners/ batter never reached their next base. The the pitcher walked the batter and that’s all that matters. These formalities are ruining the game… 😳😳😳
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bagarocks

-RUFAN4LIFE-

Heisman
Feb 28, 2015
29,527
45,769
113
Umps made the right call…

And there’s people who are defending the batter/baserunners saying it doesn’t matter that the runners/ batter never reached their next base. The the pitcher walked the batter and that’s all that matters. These formalities are ruining the game… 😳😳😳
Until it happens to their team/kid then they'll want the rules enforced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bagarocks

Rutgers Chris

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2005
4,157
4,722
97
Rule clearly states batter and runners must complete the action of taking the next base. Run would only count if the declared outs for not advancing resulted in less than 3 outs.
Agreed. Coach from the other team was all over it, as was someone in the stands in the background. You can hear them saying “gotta touch the base.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: -RUFAN4LIFE-

LETSGORU91_

All-American
Jan 29, 2017
6,500
7,245
0
Rule clearly states batter and runners must complete the action of taking the next base. Run would only count if the declared outs for not advancing resulted in less than 3 outs.
Wouldn't the run count in a non force situation if it were scored prior to the infractions resulting in three outs on the field ?
 

RUmaz

Junior
May 31, 2007
1,044
212
0
If a runner is called out on appeal for missing a base they are not forced to advance to its a timing play and any runs scored prior to the appeal would count. If the runners are required to advance to the next base it is not a timing play and if 3 outs are recorded the run or runs would not count.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rubaseball78_rivals

RUmaz

Junior
May 31, 2007
1,044
212
0
Wouldn't the run count in a non force situation if it were scored prior to the infractions resulting in three outs on the field ?
Yes. Timing play and out not recorded at time of infraction but time of the appeal.
 
Last edited: