OT: November 22, 1963
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Lots of good info here. I assume it's all in the Warren Report? Otherwise Whitebus is going to start barking his "conspiracy" one-liners.
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I'm not afraid of anything when it comes to politics. I don't have a party preference and think both parties are 100% pure crap. I think liberalism and conservatism have both been distorted from whatever they might once have been to the point that both are 100% pure crap now.Wait, we don't? First the laptop was fake, now it's become verified, so are you afraid to see this played out? Afterall, we've had to sit through 6 years of Democratic ******** to get to this point! Sit back and enjoy The Revenge Tour, you had to know it was coming.
No offense to what is probably 90% of the people reading this, but I think anybody who would willingly identify with either ideology, or either party, rather than stepping back and recognizing the absolute obvious crap on both sides, has been brainwashed by simplistic groupthink to the point of foolishness. And I'm putting this gently.
My preference would be to see someone besides Biden or Trump become president. Because neither one is fit to be president right now, albeit for very different reasons.
But ultimately, I don't think it makes much difference because nobody is running from either side that's worth a cup of spit. And, despite people on both sides doing their level best to destroy the country w/all the mindlessly stupid finger-pointing and continuous one-sided responsibility-avoidance, I believe that the idea behind the United States, along with our constitution and legal system, combine to be strong enough to outlast all these pathetically awful politicians from both sides.
Incidentally, I think that people who look at politics and use expressions like "enjoy the revenge tour" are even more of a problem than all the Bidens or Trumps out there. Voting for "revenge" or any other shallow reality-TV drama-laced reason is exactly the sort of vapid ******** permeating the electorate and that is doing real damage to our nation.
People should be voting for the most intelligent, most high-moral, high-ethics, least polarizing, most politically and, ideally militarily, experienced candidates out there. Ideally people who have to be persuaded to run - not people who want the job. Only we don't have any candidates like that at all. And if we did, they'd be too "boring" for the reality-TV-infused electorate to vote for.
A sad state of affairs. Hopefully, this too will pass, perhaps in a couple generations.
Your right, and I've said I don't want Trump to run, he's too toxic. Your right Biden also isn't fit to be President either. I'm right that after 6 years of total ******** and head hunting you'd have to expect The Revenge Tour. Did I say I wanted the Revenge Tour, I said I expected it. No worries, in 2024, if Democrats take back the House, there will be The Revenge Tour of the previous Revenge Tour, so yeah, both parties suck. My only argument would be that one party has way more help from Social and Mainstream media.
I think whichever party manages to shift away from the extremes and steer hard to center will dominate the next couple decades of elections. More and more people are disgusted by the extremism in both sides. The extremists cancel each other out in elections leaving independents and moderates to make the difference in elections anyway. But the extremists dominate the primaries so the candidate lists on both sides are a study in unfitness.
Neither side seems willing to do this, but sooner or later, they‘ll see that the alternative is to continue ping-ponging from left to right, then right to left, as the country has been doing forever. It has become impossible to form long term national strategies as each side seeks nothing more than to undo whatever the opposition did the prior 4-8 years.
I doubt that Biden will run, or that Trump could get elected. I think there are good people in both parties who might get the nomination, but I fear it will be DeSantis and Newsome, and don't like either one of them.
JFK Killing was a CIA / Mob / Cuba trifecta. All had reasons to want him dead.
How does one explain how Jack Ruby of all people - a Mob associate - then kills Oswald to shut him up
I’m also bewildered how the Secret Service allowed JFK to be in a car with its roof open.
How does one explain how Jack Ruby of all people - a Mob associate - then kills Oswald to shut him up
I’m also bewildered how the Secret Service allowed JFK to be in a car with its roof open.
DeSantis will win that match-up. He seems to have the right balance of pushing back against woke liberal craziness, but without going too far. Next 2 years should be interesting!
A greater percentage of Republicans voted for the major civil rights acts (there were three) of the sixties than the percentage of Democrats. LBJ is quoted saying he "bought those ni**ers for decades" by getting them passed.
A MSNBC guest just reported Trump was seen behind the grassy knoll that day. CNN will have a special report. The NYT and WaPo will cite "reliable sources" 50 former intelligence operatives signed off on the report.
Here is one for you. Some pretty compelling evidence here. Or maybe just one man’s theory. Listen and judge for yourself.
I just think it’s funny that so many here are acting like the Warren Report is Gospel since some of its own members, LBJ and RFK didn’t believe it. The job of the WC was to identify LHO as the sole and only person involved in the murder and anything that didn’t fit their narrative was either dismissed out of hand or ignored.
I can identify. My Maga friends think I’m a flaming liberal and my lefty friends think I’m a staunch Trump supporter. Life is tough in the middle.Thank you, Whitebus.
I wasn't really suggesting that I knew how this would break out by political persuasion; that was just an example.
For me, I find all the discussion on conspiracies fascinating, and some make a lot of sense, but my gut feeling is that we'd have more of a clue by now if they had any grounding in reality. So I'm in the same camp as you, I'd say. Politically, I'm completely independent and try to make up my own mind issue by issue. Neither the righties nor the lefties like me much
I believe in science and physics more than the Warren Report. All conspiracy theories fall apart with a simple review using common sense. And also, every conspiracy theory involves a very large amount of people or organizations. Everyone leaks. Everyone talks. There are no broad conspiracies (especially via government) due to shear incompetence and partisanship.
No aliens. No secrets at Area 51. No special file on JFK. No secrets about 9/11. Think about it. Trump was in the White House for 4 years. Any secrets would have been leaked and tweeted out within days. Such things just don't exist.
So RU2008, I guess you must have missed all the facts (yes facts) that a certain committee has discovered. Your party couldn't form a committee on anything, except to try to indict the people who dug rip all the crap on the MAGA world. Oh, and maybe to indict Hunter, who so very clearly was responsible for Trumpet's fall.
Facts, what facts? 1,000 of hours of tapes never released, Pelosi never explained denying the National Guard. Would you consider those as a couple of facts.So why are all the Liberals so pissed at Musk and Twitter? Because free speech isn't blocked anymore? The laptop will be exposed for what it was, not Russian ******** but a Democratic coverup, and you know it. Defend the laptop all you want, it was never fake news, and Joe Joe is bought and sold more times overseas than we can imagine.
Back to the issue:
Besides Nellie Connally, initially John also said he and JFK were hit by separate bullets.
He changed his story later.
Besides Nellie Connally, initially John also said he and JFK were hit by separate bullets.
He changed his story later.
Tell me how an "easy shot" becomes so hard to execute properly. The failed assassination attempt by Oswald on a stationary Gen. Walker, working on his income tax, at a distance of 40yds. would lead me to question his overall ability as a rifleman. His "marksman" status in the Marine Corps was only the lowest level at which to qualify with a rifle. After reading descriptions of Oswald as a person, he hardly seems like a candidate for sniper school. Still hard for me to believe any respectable sniper would choose a mail order Carcano as a firearm of choice. I suspect as a military surplus rifle, it might be adequate for use as a deer hunting rifle maybe out to 100 yards if one were looking to hit the torso of a deer. A deer hunter would also look to acquire or reload his own soft tip cartridges that expand after impact rather than the military type rounds with a heavy copper jacket & round tip which just punch thru creating a narrow wound channel. I've read the scopes on those rifles were of questionable quality and no serious competitive rifle shooter would mount a scope on a side flange mount. I knew what a Carcano was before I ever heard of Lee Harvey Oswald because as a young teenager, I was familiar with the Chicago store's advertisements in the outdoor sports magazines. I don't remember thinking it was a precision instrument. Battlefield accuracy differs from a sniper's precise bullet placement. Comparing Lee Harvey Oswald & his Carcano to a trained sniper & his modified rifle is like comparing a school crossing guard to a heavily trained & experienced SWAT team member.
In Rush to Judgement, Mark Lane interviewed a Marine Corps buddy of LHO who said that Oswald was a terrible shot and was considered a joke as a marksman in the unit.
One question about the whole gun issue that I never heard addressed.
LHO lived in Texas where I'm going to guess that in 1963 buying a gun would be as easy as buying a Pepsi. Why would he mail order a weapon and then save the receipt so it was so easily traceable?
One question about the whole gun issue that I never heard addressed.
LHO lived in Texas where I'm going to guess that in 1963 buying a gun would be as easy as buying a Pepsi. Why would he mail order a weapon and then save the receipt so it was so easily traceable?
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Great question! It would seem much more evasive and harder to trace a person-to-person rifle transaction in those days, especially in rural areas where deer hunting abounds. Maybe it was just the least amount of money to spend . . . I believe under 20 dollars. So, he would be looking at a cheap priced firearm with questionable accuracy and a paper trail. Somebody probably slapped the scope mount on, tightened down the rings and bore sighted the rifle. This would mean the Carcano will be on the paper at maybe 25yds. It takes a bit of range time to do the proper sighting in at various distances. Based on reports of Oswald's personality, would he have what it takes to do that? Have to wonder whether Oswald was a dope or a smart guy brilliantly playing a stooge. Maybe his moment of real clarity caused him to pronounce himself as a "patsy".
I tend to believe that there are things that have been done that even the president has no knowledge of. Wouldn't you agree? Our intelligence community has always felt that they were a power answerable to no one in the name of "national security".
Just not true about the fatal bullet's performance. Hitting the hard skull instead of soft neck, it behaved differently from the other bullet, but in a way that was replicated by scientific analysis. See here:
Let's keep the goalposts in place. You said, "No such thing as an easy shot." I said, "Of course there is."
Now you want to talk about whether Oswald could make this shot with the rifle and scope that he had. And that's a different discussion. The analysis of the "pristine" bullet and the fragmented one reveal that both are consistent with the ammunition Oswald used. He probably bought the Carcano because it was all he could afford. His shots have been replicated. He practiced at a range and in all likelihood, out in fields.
I doubt that he had shooting Kennedy in mind when he ordered the gun. He missed Walker as his bullet hit a window frame, perhaps that was blurred in his scope. Who knows?
But the simple fact of the matter is that the evidence available clearly indicates that the bullets were fired from Oswald's gun, from the TBD, and that Oswald was capable of doing this. There are other possibilities, but they just don't hold up to analysis, so far.
Hey, I'm retired and currently a school crossing guard,lol
No, I don't agree. Presidents have access to everything. And FYI, our intelligence community leaks like a sieve and routinely has whistleblowers. Sorry, no aliens or grand conspiracies.
If you’re retired from being a SWAT officer, you‘ll win the internet today.
The one study by the two guys states that a bullet from that ammunition penetrated 3 feet of pine. Have to scratch my head on that one. Even considering it was true, how does a full jacketed bullet explode when hitting a much thinner piece of skull bone? Hard to imagine a heavy copper coated full metal jacket sending out little particles into tissue as it supposedly fragments specifically as it is not intended to by design. I've seen the splatter from thin jacketed hollow point bullets at the pistol range and have also seen FMJ bullets that have caught the edge of the heavy metal baffles but remain relatively intact (maybe even with only a small dent). Oswald didn't need to use a scope for the Walker shot as it was so close and the scope was mounted offset making the iron sights available. Then, there was no follow up shot on an intact stationary target. Three weeks later, the same guy gets off three consecutive shots at a moving target from an elevated perch. Seems like a huge difference in the skill set there. Fine shooting skills diminish over time, not improve. If you told me OLH built a tower six stories high and practiced on a moving target for a few weeks, the whole scenario becomes much more believable.
I’m not sure anyone will ever know what’s true or not. It would help if the rest of the documents were released.
The guys who were interviewed have multiple publications in refereed journals on ballistics, and they tested the bullets. I understand that it would seem odd that a bullet could go through three feet of pine and come out OK, but break in two hitting a skull. And yet, that is what multiple tests have shown. Analysis also shows that the two bullets came from Oswald's gun.
The Dallas Morning News had a good article on the Walker attempt in 2018. URL is here:https://www.dallasnews.com/news/201...ld-targeted-ex-gen-edwin-a-walker-and-missed/
Apparently, Oswald used the scope on his attempt on Walker, although I dont' know how anybody would know that unless Oswald told somebody. At any rate, in this article, Walker says the following.
It was the battle-hardened Walker who had an explanation.
With Oswald standing in the dark, looking through his scope at a fully lit room, small obstructions like the window frame would have disappeared.
“He couldn’t see either with a scope or without a scope,” Walker told the Warren Commission. “He couldn’t see [properly] from his position because of the light. It would have looked like one big, lighted area. He could have been a very good shot and, just by chance, he hit the woodwork.”
The moving target doesn't really move much as it is going away from the shooter rather than across. That is what surprised me as I looked out the window in the TBD. Also, after the first shot, which most agree probably missed Kennedy, the limo slowed down instead of speeding up, which it ultimately did, but then it was too late.
I'll say this again. I get the ballistics and physics and all that but again eyewitnesses said that they heard gun shots and saw smoke from behind the picket fence. This wasn't one or two people. Railroad workers in the yard tower, people on the triple overpass, police officers and people who were down in Dealy Plaza said the same thing. None of this was investigated and few, if any, of these people testified before the Warren Commission. Both Connellys saying that there was no magic bullet but there was two separate shots. The doctors in the trauma room at Parkland who stated that JFK's throat wound was an entry wound and the wound at the back of his skull was an exit wound. These are the doctors who had the first opportunity to exam JFK as they tried to see if there was any way to save his life. The blood, skull fragments and brain tissue that spattered the motorcycle officer to the left rear of the president.
Both Hoover and the Justice Department stated that LHO was a lone assassin within 24 hours of his death. The biggest crime in American history and it's wrapped up in 48 hours? The "investigation" reminds me of the quote from Stalin's old KGB chief, Beria, "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime".
From one of Hoover's memos:
"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
A memo from the above mentioned Nicholas Katzenbach at the Justice department on November 25, 1964.
"the public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Everything that the Warren Commission focused on was making sure that Oswald was the guy and the only guy. Did Oswald do it alone? Was there a conspiracy? I don't know but for me there are two many unanswered questions.
To clarify, I don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job but the result of the actions of 19 Islamic terrorists. I do believe in the possibility of aliens. I think it's an example of extreme hubris to believe that in all of these billions of galaxies we are the only life. However, I don't believe that the government has alien ships or bodies stashed away somewhere.
Both Hoover and the Justice Department stated that LHO was a lone assassin within 24 hours of his death. The biggest crime in American history and it's wrapped up in 48 hours? The "investigation" reminds me of the quote from Stalin's old KGB chief, Beria, "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime".
From one of Hoover's memos:
"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
A memo from the above mentioned Nicholas Katzenbach at the Justice department on November 25, 1964.
"the public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Everything that the Warren Commission focused on was making sure that Oswald was the guy and the only guy. Did Oswald do it alone? Was there a conspiracy? I don't know but for me there are two many unanswered questions.
To clarify, I don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job but the result of the actions of 19 Islamic terrorists. I do believe in the possibility of aliens. I think it's an example of extreme hubris to believe that in all of these billions of galaxies we are the only life. However, I don't believe that the government has alien ships or bodies stashed away somewhere.
Here's a good piece on the origins of the gunshots: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8637832/
Thanks. Interesting article on acoustics. Need to finish it when I get home from work. Still would like some explanation regarding what the Connallys and the Parkland doctors said.