OT: November 22, 1963

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
I'll say this again. I get the ballistics and physics and all that but again eyewitnesses said that they heard gun shots and saw smoke from behind the picket fence. This wasn't one or two people. Railroad workers in the yard tower, people on the triple overpass, police officers and people who were down in Dealy Plaza said the same thing. None of this was investigated and few, if any, of these people testified before the Warren Commission. Both Connellys saying that there was no magic bullet but there was two separate shots. The doctors in the trauma room at Parkland who stated that JFK's throat wound was an entry wound and the wound at the back of his skull was an exit wound. These are the doctors who had the first opportunity to exam JFK as they tried to see if there was any way to save his life. The blood, skull fragments and brain tissue that spattered the motorcycle officer to the left rear of the president.
Both Hoover and the Justice Department stated that LHO was a lone assassin within 24 hours of his death. The biggest crime in American history and it's wrapped up in 48 hours? The "investigation" reminds me of the quote from Stalin's old KGB chief, Beria, "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime".
From one of Hoover's memos:
"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
A memo from the above mentioned Nicholas Katzenbach at the Justice department on November 25, 1964.
"the public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
Everything that the Warren Commission focused on was making sure that Oswald was the guy and the only guy. Did Oswald do it alone? Was there a conspiracy? I don't know but for me there are two many unanswered questions.
To clarify, I don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job but the result of the actions of 19 Islamic terrorists. I do believe in the possibility of aliens. I think it's an example of extreme hubris to believe that in all of these billions of galaxies we are the only life. However, I don't believe that the government has alien ships or bodies stashed away somewhere.
Eye witnesses are BY FAR the most unreliable forms of evidence for literally all types of crime and events. People never agree on anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
The blood, skull fragments and brain tissue that spattered the motorcycle officer to the left rear of the president.
Let use some common sense. JFK's head essentially exploded. Pieces, particles, blood, mist, flying everywhere including upwards. The car was driving forward and so was the motorcycle officer. The office drove into the debris field and got stuff on him.
 

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
Let use some common sense. JFK's head essentially exploded. Pieces, particles, blood, mist, flying everywhere including upwards. The car was driving forward and so was the motorcycle officer. The office drove into the debris field and got stuff on him.
I'll give you that point.
Still a lot of holes in the story for me.
 
Last edited:

RCBeta79

All-Conference
Jun 7, 2013
1,058
1,045
0
https://www.kennedysandking.com/joh...larry-schnapf-s-letter-to-president-joe-biden

My Rutgers fraternity brother, Larry Schnapf (New York Attorney and Law School Professor), is a quasi-expert on the JFK single bullet theory.

He wrote a letter to President Biden regarding the release of the records (according to the JFK Records Collection Act) that was scheduled for October 26, 2017, but postponed by President Trump until October 26, 2021.

Attached is the letter to President Biden.
 

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
Anything that doesn't follow the narrative of LHO as the lone nut and Ruby as the grieved citizen looking to spare Jackie has been long destroyed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WasatRutgers

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
You mean like the too quick, too focused Warren Report?
The WR was not looking to investigate anything. They had their guy and there was zero interest in following any other avenues. I heard someone once describe it as not an investigative report but a prosecution brief.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WasatRutgers

Shelby65

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2008
7,895
4,358
66
Colby…maybe the smoke by the hill was a ghost. Do you believe in ghosts ? It’s been speculated that ghosts can shoot magic bullets. I bet the ghost evidence was destroyed. This explains everything, right?

Sir Shelby65
 

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
Immediately after the shooting a Dallas motorcycle police officer, with gun drawn (you can see him on some films) charged up the grassy knoll to investigate behind the picket fence. When he got there he was confronted by two men who identified themselves as Secret Service and showed him credentials. The Secret Service had no one up there that day.
Who were those guys? Aren't people even curious?
 
Last edited:

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
Trailer for the upcoming show. Hopefully it is truthful and not about crazy conspiracies:

 

CERU00

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2005
3,626
1,677
0
Anything that doesn't follow the narrative of LHO as the lone nut and Ruby as the grieved citizen looking to spare Jackie has been long destroyed.
Not completely true. There are loads of evidence already releasing indicating the conspiracy.

There are many witness accounts on youtube. Lee Bowers (witness from behind the knoll), the Railroad men on the overpass, and Roger Craig (Dallaa PD) have interviews all on youtube now. They are very believable. True, much of the evidence was mishandled, swapped or destroyed. There is no chain of custody on most key evidence relied on by the wc. Oswald would never have been convicted.
Also, lookup Vince Palamara on his analysis of how the Secret service security was on Nov 22 compared to protocols and all previous motorcade.

The more i learn on the subject the more I'm convinced it was a coup and LBJ was the head. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure. But even what is already provable is quite sickening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 50 yd line RR

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
Not completely true. There are loads of evidence already releasing indicating the conspiracy.

There are many witness accounts on youtube. Lee Bowers (witness from behind the knoll), the Railroad men on the overpass, and Roger Craig (Dallaa PD) have interviews all on youtube now. They are very believable. True, much of the evidence was mishandled, swapped or destroyed. There is no chain of custody on most key evidence relied on by the wc. Oswald would never have been convicted.
Also, lookup Vince Palamara on his analysis of how the Secret service security was on Nov 22 compared to protocols and all previous motorcade.

The more i learn on the subject the more I'm convinced it was a coup and LBJ was the head. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure. But even what is already provable is quite sickening.
Not sure why I made that post? Late at night? Drunk? Bangkok night hangover??

I'm with you. Not sure how much LBJ was involved in the actual murder but he was complicit in the cover up. The Warren Commission was not set up as an investigative body but it's main role was to back up the lone guman theory.
 
Last edited:

rureadyforsomefootball

All-Conference
Aug 20, 2005
5,246
2,065
113
Not sure why I made that post? Late at night? Drunk? Bangkok night hangover??

I'm with you. Not sure how much LBJ was involved in the actual murder but he was complicit in the cover up. The Warren Commission was not set up as an investigate body but it's main role was to back up the lone guman theory.
But the government never lies to us. Why just yesterday John Kirby lied to the entire country when he stated the reason Sleepy Joe wasn't holding any press conferences and was off limits as early as 11:30 am was to talk to world leaders about the horrendous situation in Israel. In fact he was before the Special Counsel answering questions about his illegal holding of classified documents. Kirby is just another tool of this corrupt administration.
 

RUGuitarMan1

All-Conference
Apr 5, 2021
2,239
3,431
73
Regarding this topic, I would encourage people to read Gerald Posner’s excellent book “Case Closed”. It’s an authoritative investigation which focuses on Oswald and is evidence based. It’s not a book of speculation and effectively dismisses all of the wild conspiracy theories. I would also encourage all people to read more serious history books and not consume as much entertainment based information on serious topics. It’s not helping the current state of affairs in the US.
 

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,239
18,622
113
Regarding this topic, I would encourage people to read Gerald Posner’s excellent book “Case Closed”. It’s an authoritative investigation which focuses on Oswald and is evidence based. It’s not a book of speculation and effectively dismisses all of the wild conspiracy theories. I would also encourage all people to read more serious history books and not consume as much entertainment based information on serious topics. It’s not helping the current state of affairs in the US.
I picked it up last time I was home. On my list to do.
 

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,116
18,465
113
But the government never lies to us. Why just yesterday John Kirby lied to the entire country when he stated the reason Sleepy Joe wasn't holding any press conferences and was off limits as early as 11:30 am was to talk to world leaders about the horrendous situation in Israel. In fact he was before the Special Counsel answering questions about his illegal holding of classified documents. Kirby is just another tool of this corrupt administration.

If you like your plan you can keep your plan. No I couldn't.
 

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
Regarding this topic, I would encourage people to read Gerald Posner’s excellent book “Case Closed”. It’s an authoritative investigation which focuses on Oswald and is evidence based. It’s not a book of speculation and effectively dismisses all of the wild conspiracy theories. I would also encourage all people to read more serious history books and not consume as much entertainment based information on serious topics. It’s not helping the current state of affairs in the US.
The definitive analysis of the event.
 

CERU00

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2005
3,626
1,677
0
Regarding this topic, I would encourage people to read Gerald Posner’s excellent book “Case Closed”. It’s an authoritative investigation which focuses on Oswald and is evidence based. It’s not a book of speculation and effectively dismisses all of the wild conspiracy theories. I would also encourage all people to read more serious history books and not consume as much entertainment based information on serious topics. It’s not helping the current state of affairs in the US.
😆 1. do you deny that Oswald worked for intelligence services? 2. Do you think its a simple coincidence that Oswald was befriended by George De Mohrenschildt and Ruth Paine?
The definitive analysis of the event.
Hardly. That book has been debunked in detail. Go listen to LBJ tell Hoover that they need to convince the American people of the lone gunman. Then, go look the evidence the WC twisted or ignored. Consider this... Gerald Ford admitted that he alone moved the WC diagram showing location of the JFK back wound (not a through shot btw) up inches from his shoulder up closer to the neck to help the WC deceive the public into believing that wound was continuous with the neck wound. Keep in mind, the primary doctor (Perry) at Parkland definitively stated the neck wound was an entrance wound- video of that Q&A at parkland is available on youtube as well. Note, the vast majority involved had no clue this was a coverup, they were doing what they were told was needed to be done to avoid a war with Cuba/Russia. ok, I'll stop. I just wish people would do some of their own research before believing a report so obviously flawed.
 

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
😆 1. do you deny that Oswald worked for intelligence services? 2. Do you think its a simple coincidence that Oswald was befriended by George De Mohrenschildt and Ruth Paine?

Hardly. That book has been debunked in detail. Go listen to LBJ tell Hoover that they need to convince the American people of the lone gunman. Then, go look the evidence the WC twisted or ignored. Consider this... Gerald Ford admitted that he alone moved the WC diagram showing location of the JFK back wound (not a through shot btw) up inches from his shoulder up closer to the neck to help the WC deceive the public into believing that wound was continuous with the neck wound. Keep in mind, the primary doctor (Perry) at Parkland definitively stated the neck wound was an entrance wound- video of that Q&A at parkland is available on youtube as well. Note, the vast majority involved had no clue this was a coverup, they were doing what they were told was needed to be done to avoid a war with Cuba/Russia. ok, I'll stop. I just wish people would do some of their own research before believing a report so obviously flawed.
Typical crazy person post. Thanks for the laugh! Facts are facts.
 

rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
8,853
5,773
0
The date of probably the most examined, most analyzed and most studied murder in world history. Everyone has a theory and everyone has an opinion as to what happened, how many shots and/or shooters there were and what was the motive for the crime.
At least the last three presidents have had it in their power to release more information but have decided against doing so. Anyone who had any type of important role on this day is long dead and gone. I don't think we'll ever get a full story because it might shake the foundation of the country itself.
Whenever a crime is committed one of the questions that needs to be answered is who has the most to gain by the crime. In this case a lot of people had a lot to gain which makes it so difficult. I have my own opinion on this but I won't get into that.
I only hope before I leave this earth we can know the truth about this day. What happened, who was involved and why?
Recently one of the secret service agents who was in the following car spoke out for the first time. He said there was more than one shot. Article was in the NYT a couple of months ago.

A junior in college, I know exactly where I was when I heard about it. Never believed Oswald acted alone.
 

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
Recently one of the secret service agents who was in the following car spoke out for the first time. He said there was more than one shot. Article was in the NYT a couple of months ago.

A junior in college, I know exactly where I was when I heard about it. Never believed Oswald acted alone.
Yes, there were 3 shots. All from Oswald and the TSBD. He acted alone.
 

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,116
18,465
113
May I make a suggestion? NOBODY is going to change their minds. Agree to disagree and move on.
 

Ru-baby

All-Conference
Aug 11, 2001
6,547
2,840
66
I just wish people would do some of their own research
"research" has somehow become not review of source materials, but watching of you tube/internet videos and reading website theories.

"Research"---the fact that people believe looking at websites is research is emblematic of much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking

CERU00

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2005
3,626
1,677
0
"research" has somehow become not review of source materials, but watching of you tube/internet videos and reading website theories.

"Research"---the fact that people believe looking at websites is research is emblematic of much.
Watching witness testimony is probably the most critical component of research. In fact, in many cases hearing first hand accounts is more than performed by the WC. You need to START with people who have done research into source material. Then, you look at their sources to determine what can be proven, what is speculation, and what is made up.
 

RUGuitarMan1

All-Conference
Apr 5, 2021
2,239
3,431
73
😆 1. do you deny that Oswald worked for intelligence services? 2. Do you think its a simple coincidence that Oswald was befriended by George De Mohrenschildt and Ruth Paine?

Hardly. That book has been debunked in detail. Go listen to LBJ tell Hoover that they need to convince the American people of the lone gunman. Then, go look the evidence the WC twisted or ignored. Consider this... Gerald Ford admitted that he alone moved the WC diagram showing location of the JFK back wound (not a through shot btw) up inches from his shoulder up closer to the neck to help the WC deceive the public into believing that wound was continuous with the neck wound. Keep in mind, the primary doctor (Perry) at Parkland definitively stated the neck wound was an entrance wound- video of that Q&A at parkland is available on youtube as well. Note, the vast majority involved had no clue this was a coverup, they were doing what they were told was needed to be done to avoid a war with Cuba/Russia. ok, I'll stop. I just wish people would do some of their own research before believing a report so obviously flawed.
I’m guessing you haven’t read Posner’s “Case Closed”. The only people who “debunked” the book are those heavily invested in the conspiracy business. The book has widespread acclaim. Who wants to read a book that may be in conflict with your opinions, assumptions , theories ….right? The event happened when I was 5, growing up in the 70s, conspiracy books were all the rage. I leaned toward some sort of conspiracy possibly involving the Mafia for years. I always thought the govt conspiracy theories were ridiculous. I read Posner’s book in the late 90s. It changed the way I thought about the assassination. He did that by intense focus on the main characters in this murder mystery, specifically Oswald and Ruby. After all, we are coming up on 60 yrs and all those massive conspiracies are still intact. There has been no legitimate coming forth by any involved for a possible huge payday. There has been no legitimate death bed confessions of any of “the conspirators”. All we have left is the tragedy and emptiness of Nov 22, 1963.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus20

e5fdny

Heisman
Nov 11, 2002
113,727
52,389
102
I’m guessing you haven’t read Posner’s “Case Closed”. The only people who “debunked” the book are those heavily invested in the conspiracy business. The book has widespread acclaim. Who wants to read a book that may be in conflict with your opinions, assumptions , theories ….right? The event happened when I was 5, growing up in the 70s, conspiracy books were all the rage. I leaned toward some sort of conspiracy possibly involving the Mafia for years. I always thought the govt conspiracy theories were ridiculous. I read Posner’s book in the late 90s. It changed the way I thought about the assassination. He did that by intense focus on the main characters in this murder mystery, specifically Oswald and Ruby. After all, we are coming up on 60 yrs and all those massive conspiracies are still intact. There has been no legitimate coming forth by any involved for a possible huge payday. There has been no legitimate death bed confessions of any of “the conspirators”. All we have left is the tragedy and emptiness of Nov 22, 1963.
"We'll laugh again, but we'll never be young again."

Or something like that.
 

T2Kplus20

Heisman
May 1, 2007
30,429
18,397
113
I’m guessing you haven’t read Posner’s “Case Closed”. The only people who “debunked” the book are those heavily invested in the conspiracy business. The book has widespread acclaim. Who wants to read a book that may be in conflict with your opinions, assumptions , theories ….right? The event happened when I was 5, growing up in the 70s, conspiracy books were all the rage. I leaned toward some sort of conspiracy possibly involving the Mafia for years. I always thought the govt conspiracy theories were ridiculous. I read Posner’s book in the late 90s. It changed the way I thought about the assassination. He did that by intense focus on the main characters in this murder mystery, specifically Oswald and Ruby. After all, we are coming up on 60 yrs and all those massive conspiracies are still intact. There has been no legitimate coming forth by any involved for a possible huge payday. There has been no legitimate death bed confessions of any of “the conspirators”. All we have left is the tragedy and emptiness of Nov 22, 1963.
The biggest fallacy of conspiracy nuts is believing that government/law enforcement incompetence is proof of a conspriary.....when logically it means the exact opposite. LOL!

Gov'ment = Stupid (always has, always will)
 

e5fdny

Heisman
Nov 11, 2002
113,727
52,389
102
The biggest fallacy of conspiracy nuts is believing that government/law enforcement incompetence is proof of a conspriary.....when logically it means the exact opposite. LOL!

Gov'ment = Stupid (always has, always will)
Wait…weren’t you…🤔